Windows 7 Thread.

[Casio]

I know some of you who are as geeky as me may be interested in this. The first real look at Windows 7.

Windows 7 details galore: interface tweaks, netbook builds, Media Center enhancements

by Nilay Patel, posted Oct 28th 2008 at 1:58PM

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Microsoft's Windows 7 announcement earlier today was followed up by an extensive demo of the new features during the PDC keynote, and since then even more info about the new OS has flooded out, so we thought we'd try to wrap up some of the more important bits here for you. Microsoft seems to have done an impressive job at this early pre-beta stage, folding in next-gen interface ideas like multitouch into the same OS that apparently runs fine on a 1GHz netbook with 1GB of RAM, but we'll see how development goes -- there's still a ways to go. Some notes:

• Obviously, the big news is the new taskbar, which forgoes text for icons and has new "jump lists" of app controls and options you can access with a right-click. You can select playlists in Media Player, for example. Super cool: when you scrub over the icons, all the other app windows go transparent so you can "peek" at the windows you're pointing at.
• Gadgets now appear on the desktop -- the sidebar has been killed. That makes more sense for all those laptop owners out there with limited screen space, and you can still see gadgets anytime by peeking at the desktop, rendering all other windows transparent.
• Window resizing and management now happens semi-automatically: dragging a window to the top of the screen maximizes it, pulling it down restores; dragging a window to the edges auto-resizes it to 50% for quick tiling. Nifty.
• The system tray now only displays what you explicitly say it should -- everything else is hidden, and the controls have been streamlined.
• User Account Control settings are now much more fine-grained -- you can set them by app and by level of access.
• They demoed multitouch features on an HP TouchSmart PC -- it was pretty cool, although the usual nagging "what is this good for / that'll get old fast" concerns weren't really addressed. The Start menu gets 25 percent bigger when using touch to make it easier to handle, and apps will all get scroll support automatically. There's also a giant on-screen predictive keyboard. Again -- could be amazing, but we won't know until it's out in the wild.
• We've always known Microsoft intends Windows 7 to run on netbooks, and we got a small taste during the PDC keynote: Windows SVP Steve Sinofsky held up his "personal" laptop running Windows 7, an unnamed 1GHz netbook with 1GB of RAM that looked a lot like an Eee PC, and said that it still had about half its memory free after boot. (We're guessing it was running a VIA Nano, since most Atoms run at 1.6GHz.)
• At the other end of the scale, Windows 7 supports machines with up to 256 CPUs.
• Multiple-monitor management is much-improved, as is setting up projectors -- it's a hotkey away. Remote Desktop now works with multiple monitors as well.
• Media Center has been tweaked as well -- it looks a lot more like the Zune interface. There's also a new Mini Guide when watching video, and a new Music Wall album artwork screensaver that kicks in when you're playing music.
• Devs got a pre-beta today; a "pretty good" feature complete beta is due early next year. No word at all on when it'll be released to market apart from that "three years from Vista" date we've known forever.

The thing that's appealing to me at the moment is the running on NetBooks. Which of course will be good for two reasons, for people like me who have been holding out for a netbook because of terrible Vista support, and it most likely won't be a system hog on desktops (Assuming their isn't a specific NetBook version). With a few other features it's going to be a release that I'm genuinely excited about.

 

[Joey D]

What is Windows Azure? Is it the same thing?

Anyways I am excited about this to, because like you I'm waiting to get my hands on a NetBook. The interface looks better although I am not impressed with the Zune interface. I love my MP3 player but I can't stand the software it needs. I'll be curious to see more about it as it gets closer to launch and barring it's good I'll be all over a new NetBook to replace my ageing laptop which is on it's way out with a bad heat sink.

 

[G.T]

Vista promised a lot of things that never appeared, so I'll have to wait this one out to make a proper verdict on it.

 

[Casio]

What is Windows Azure? Is it the same thing?

Anyways I am excited about this to, because like you I'm waiting to get my hands on a NetBook. The interface looks better although I am not impressed with the Zune interface. I love my MP3 player but I can't stand the software it needs. I'll be curious to see more about it as it gets closer to launch and barring it's good I'll be all over a new NetBook to replace my ageing laptop which is on it's way out with a bad heat sink.

It's actually different from Windows Azure. Windows Azure is the next Cloud-Computing based software from Microsoft, I have no doubt that a small amount of that stuff will be implemented into Windows 7 in one way or another, however, I wouldn't think it would be until the next major OS release that it will get a full implementation.

But yeah, a NetBook with multitouch would be high on my list of things to get.

 

[Joey D]

Gotcha, thanks for the clarification.

 

[Tornado]

I don't think I like that taskbar, but otherwise I can't comment on anything in particular.

 

[opendriver]

Im not going to hold my breath on this, but it looks nice, but how does it perform?

 

[Casio]

Some more pictures.

New taskbar. Looks like rather than multiple instances of one program appearing on the taskbar, a mouseover brings up thumbnails of the apps, while I really, really like the idea. For people who sometimes have more than one instance of an application open (Such as Word or IE), it brings an extra click. However, now that all browsers are Tabbed it may not be such as issue. (When are Tabs coming to Office Applications anyway...)

I do like this feature, in this particular example, allows use of Windows Media Player without that ugly intrataskbar control set. Also any application can be coded to give the option of any action on a right-click.

"The taskbar's system tray has also been improved. A common complaint about the tray is that it fills with useless icons and annoying notifications. With 7, the tray is now owned entirely by the user. By default, new tray icons are hidden and invisible; the icons are only displayed if explicitly enabled. The icons themselves have also been streamlined to make common tasks (such as switching wireless networks) easier and faster."

Score.

 

[Sage]

In the twentieth twenty-first century, why is MS still designing icons as if they only had 8-bit capability?

 

[Solid Fro]

I like the expanded Quick Launch bar and the expanded system tray "peak".

 

[Tornado]

In the twentieth century, why is MS still designing icons as if they only had 8-bit capability?

Well, these computers are a scary thing. Have you heard of Y2K? End of the world, I heard.



Anyways, what do you mean by "8-bit capability?"

 

[Sage]

Well, these computers are a scary thing. Have you heard of Y2K? End of the world, I heard.

Yeah, I’m a bit century-challenged – I blame that for my sucking at history.

Anyways, what do you mean by "8-bit capability?"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8-bit_color

 

[opendriver]

Here's more info from gizmodo

http://gizmodo.com/5069661/windows-7-walkthrough-boot-video-and-impressions

 

[Casio]

Why do 30 x 30 or less icons need 16.7 million colours?

 

[Casio]

Im not going to hold my breath on this, but it looks nice, but how does it perform?

It should perform better than Vista. New memory management means that only visible windows are allocated Video Memory.

Windows 7 is also way more brainy when it comes to crashy apps and errors, in a couple different ways. Probably the most impressive sounding—though we'll have to see how well it works in real life—is application crash resiliency. If an app crashes more than once, Windows 7 learns how it should run the app to avoid that particular train wreck. Also, error reports are actually useful: The Problem Steps Recorder watches what you do to trip an error—if you can repeat it after turning on the recorder, that is—and it generates a useful, detailed error report in a language that actually resembles English! And 7 just plain practices safer sex—device drivers are sandboxed, so nastiness from one cruddy set won't infect another. Having learned its lesson, Microsoft is working with hardware makers to deliver all updated drivers through Windows Update instead of, say, Samsung's byzantine excuse of a website.

None of Windows 7's awesomeness matters, though, if all that rock is too much for your notebook's battery to handle. Vista's power management was definitely better than XP's, and Windows 7's is remarkably better still. Part of it is just that whole smarter background management, which for battery life does things like dial down the processor more often, use less juice to play a standard def DVD, automatically turn off your Ethernet adapter, common sense stuff like that. But it doesn't just do all this fancy energy-saving jujitsu behind your back (though it can). Windows 7 is capable of delivering a battery efficiency report that breaks down in detail what's chomping on your battery—power-slurping hardware, vampire-y processes, the works.

All of this reflects a new mindset about the overall user experience that seems like it just got left on Vista's cutting room floor, for whatever reason. Vista was just going through the motions of a new OS. If Microsoft actually delivers on what they've shown and are promising for Windows 7—and all signs seem to point that way—it'll actually have the heart and soul of one, even if it's wearing the same brand of clothes.

 

[Tornado]

battery efficiency report
Problem Steps Recorder
smarter background management
Awesome. I haven't had problems with the other things mentioned, so I can't comment on their usefulness. This (deliver all updated drivers through Windows Update), however, worries me.

 

[Rusty*]

It should perform better than Vista. New memory management means that only visible windows are allocated Video Memory.

That's a good thing for gamer's.👍
I am pondering the thought o fholding off to get a new PC until Windows 7 is released...also Blue-Ray burner's will be more available.
Peace,
Rusty*

 

[Jump_Ace]

Yea but can it tell me when I should buy more milk?

This is great except for the fact I bought Vista ultimate on craigslist about 2 months ago I'll still make the change, I'm sold already.

Jerome

 

[Eric.]

Vista SP2. With a price tag.

 

[Robin]

Vista SP2. With a price tag.

+1... although it may actually be enough to make it a worth while release, if its Vista done right then I might consider it (I skipped Vista).

I hope the name 7 symbolises MS's return to form, like the good old days of NT and 2000. I like the new taskbar when its in normal configuration but as its shown in the screens above it looks terribly ugly like some Windows Live toolbar from the late 90's.. I hoping this is just because its M3.

I like the new peek function although its only slightly different from the show desktop button. The new orb is also nice but this is only eye candy, I really want stuff to be totally configurable so you can cut the junk and fat to make it lean!

Oh can anyone tell me the final word on the MinWin Kernel.... is it going to be in 7? yes no?? keep hearing different things.

Robin

 

[Cap'n Jack]

It all sounds promising, but the task bar really needs to be slimmed down.

 

[Vasco]

+1... although it may actually be enough to make it a worth while release, if its Vista done right then I might consider it (I skipped Vista).

I hope the name 7 symbolises MS's return to form, like the good old days of NT and 2000. I like the new taskbar when its in normal configuration but as its shown in the screens above it looks terribly ugly like some Windows Live toolbar from the late 90's.. I hoping this is just because its M3.

I like the new peek function although its only slightly different from the show desktop button. The new orb is also nice but this is only eye candy, I really want stuff to be totally configurable so you can cut the junk and fat to make it lean!

Oh can anyone tell me the final word on the MinWin Kernel.... is it going to be in 7? yes no?? keep hearing different things.

Robin

But Vista is pretty good, I don't see the problem with it...been running it on my laptop for nearly a year now and it's way better than XP.

 

[GilesGuthrie]

This (deliver all updated drivers through Windows Update), however, worries me.

Microsoft are trying to open up Windows Update so it can act as a consolidated update point. There's much more technology behind it than the simple update mechanism, and hardware vendors are as keen to be "certified by Microsoft" as Microsoft is to ensure that some video card's drivers aren't lunching the OS Kernel. It really is win-win. Easier for users, easier for vendors, easier for Microsoft.

And also it's easier for corporates. Windows Software Update Service (or whatever they're calling it this week) is fundamentally a cut-down version of System Center, and a proxy service for Windows Updates. It allows corporates to fine-control inbound updates, and yet mass-install those which it views as being important. There's intelligence and auditing included too.

If only users could get over this feeling that they know better than the software vendor which patches should be installed, things would be much simpler. For a start, you'd preclude the need to deploy service packs, ever. Or they'd be a sysadmin feature only. All you'd get is a simple notice from the OS that it needed a restart, and soon would be great. Actually, what would be better would be to run the whole user session in a virtual environment. Then you could restart the OS underlying it, freezing the user session and then reanimating it once the restart had completed.

Windows 7 looks interesting, but I'll probably install Vista at the end of this year and Windows 7 later.

 

[Tornado]

Microsoft are trying to open up Windows Update so it can act as a consolidated update point. There's much more technology behind it than the simple update mechanism, and hardware vendors are as keen to be "certified by Microsoft" as Microsoft is to ensure that some video card's drivers aren't lunching the OS Kernel. It really is win-win. Easier for users, easier for vendors, easier for Microsoft.

I understand that, but I've personally had nothing but problems with the hardware drivers provided by Windows Update (mouse driver, sound card, GPU), and they don't update them very frequently. Unless Microsoft fixes both problems, it will continue to worry me. I also must wonder how Microsoft will pull off the idea anyways (if they want to incorporate all hardware drivers especially).

 

[GilesGuthrie]

Because providing regular updates will be a part of the hardware certification program.

I've never had problems with WU-sourced drivers. The ATI website however

 

[HACKr]

Personally, I'd rather see Windows 98 Third Edition...

 

[Leonidae]

Microsoft apologizes

When Steve Sinofsky took the stage on Tuesday at the Microsoft Professional Developer Conference, the senior vice president was willing to confess some past sins with Vista. His presentation was the first public demonstration of the new Windows 7 user interface, and showed how Microsoft intends to change Windows 7 to fix the problems that exist in Vista, and indeed in earlier versions of Windows.


Even Microsoft can’t hide or ignore the cold reception that Vista has received. Sinofsky identified a few key things that caused problems. First, the Windows “ecosystem”, the third-party software, hardware, and user training, wasn’t ready for the extensive changes that came in Vista. The driver model changed, which caused lots of hardware headaches at launch. The User Account Control (UAC) feature broke applications and frustrated users who hadn’t seen the behavior in XP. Windows 7 doesn’t make any changes to the ecosystem, and provides additional ways that users can reduce the number of UAC prompts without turning it off completely.
Sinofsky introduced Julie Larson-Green, who demonstrated some of the most visible changes in the Windows 7 user interface. There’s a new taskbar that combines icons for running programs, non-running programs, and recently-used programs. It’s similar in some ways to the Apple dock, but has a few other features such as window preview. The taskbar now lets you drag and drop icons to reorder them to suit your taste, rather than being grouped by type or in left-to-right order based on when you started them. Users now have a lot more control over the notification area, those annoying little icons next to the clock at the right side of the tray. You can now select not only whether the icon itself appears, but how and whether its message balloons pop up.


Vista got a reputation for being bloated and slow. Sinofsky says Microsoft is addressing that by focusing on fundamentals. The development group is working to decrease memory usage, disk I/O, and power consumption, and to increase boot speed, responsiveness, and CPU scalability. He held up a tiny netbook with a 1GHz CPU and 1GB of RAM, and said that the current Windows 7 beta runs well on that hardware using only about half the available RAM.


At this point, Microsoft still can’t be nailed down on release dates. A pre-beta will be handed out to PDC attendees, but Sinofsky wouldn’t go any further than to say that the feature-complete public beta will be available “early next year” and the final product will be shipped “approximately three years after the general availability of Windows Vista.” That would put the ship date in late 2009 or early 2010, although a ship date any later than about September of this year would mean Microsoft would again miss the critical holiday sales season, just like they did with Vista.

 

[Casio]

He held up a tiny netbook with a 1GHz CPU and 1GB of RAM, and said that the current Windows 7 beta runs well on that hardware using only about half the available RAM.

http://blog.laptopmag.com/eee-pc-1000h-runs-windows-7-well

Runs pretty well on an eeePC, and only 485MB of RAM at idle. Definately be holding off on a NetBook now.

 

[nick09]

Well I'm liking the news of less ram being needed but I don't like the fact on how much it uses. I can run Ubuntu with only 265-300MB of ram being used at startup. I would be much happier if windows 7 gets close to that amount.

 

[Robin]

Runs pretty well on an eeePC, and only 485MB of RAM at idle. Definately be holding off on a NetBook now.

Yeah me too, new ones are coming out from nearly every manufacturer every month and im seeing alot of 1up'ing going on so its best to wait. Also rumours of Sony and Apple netbooks.

The thing that takes up the RAM is all the extra junk MS puts into windows which they are hoping to cut down or atleast make modular so that the user can decide. I was reading that this is one of the most requested features of windows... the ability to selectively activate or install features of the OS on the fly so that everyone can have a better customised experience. Currently only Windows Server 2008 offers this and they hope to filter it down to seven.

Robin