Winter Testing - Circuit de Catalunya (Feb. 18-20)
- Thread starter Hun200kmh
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- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
There's something very odd going on at Team Lotus. First of all, they demand $60 million from Proton for the rights to the Lotus name. This accounts for the $36 million that they would lose in FOM payouts, and the remaining $14 million for sponsors who would no longer be associated with the team - but just about every sponsor they have is heavily connected to Tony Fernandes. Then they go ahead and run Ricardo Teixeria, a known pay driver who was eight seconds off the pace. I'm wondering if they're not in some kind of financial strife ...
- 10,373
- Manchester
- Ardius_
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/89541
Why is it odd for Team Lotus sponsors to be mostly Fernandes-owned companies? Have you forgotten that Force India's main sponsors are all Vijay Mallya-owned too? Fernandes' companies appear to be doing quite well for themselves, so I don't see why its odd for him to be able to fund the team. Isn't this the whole point of billionaires coming into the sport?
They have run pay drivers before already too...at the 2010 Abu Dhabi Young Driver tests, its not surprising to make a bit of extra money on the side when they can.
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- Hammerhead Garage
That's not what I said. I said it's odd that they demand sixty million from Proton and run a pay driver. They claim a part of that sixty million is to compensate for companies that leave the team because they were only affiliated with it because of the Lotus name, but since most of the sponsors are companies owned by Tony Fernandes and Fernandes runs the team, don't you think it's a bit strange that they'd be looking to walk away when the boss runs the team?
- 10,373
- Manchester
- Ardius_
I haven't read any such statement, and the above link conflicts with that claim. I don't find it odd at all, they would lose FOM TV money with the name and they would lose potential future sponsors who probably do want to buy into the Lotus name.
Running a pay driver for 30 laps doesn't really say much. Its no different to running Vladimir Arabadzhiev or Rodolfo Gonzalez.
Lets also not forget that they are still a small team, with a relatively small budget. Even if their main budget is covered, attempting to acquire more money is not really surprising is it?
I'm also a little cautious about reading the various "statements" being made currently by both sides of the Lotus argument, its hard to tell which one is telling the truth and I really don't care that much. If Fernandes did say that (that his companies would leave), its most likely rubbish made up to excuse the money demand. But, as I said, I haven't read such a statement and I'm not so sure I believe everything either side says. (although I'm more and more inclined to believe Fernandes' side when Proton keep contradicting themselves).
Running a pay driver for 30 laps doesn't really say much. Its no different to running Vladimir Arabadzhiev or Rodolfo Gonzalez.
Lets also not forget that they are still a small team, with a relatively small budget. Even if their main budget is covered, attempting to acquire more money is not really surprising is it?
I'm also a little cautious about reading the various "statements" being made currently by both sides of the Lotus argument, its hard to tell which one is telling the truth and I really don't care that much. If Fernandes did say that (that his companies would leave), its most likely rubbish made up to excuse the money demand. But, as I said, I haven't read such a statement and I'm not so sure I believe everything either side says. (although I'm more and more inclined to believe Fernandes' side when Proton keep contradicting themselves).
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- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
They were the most successful of the new teams in 2010, and more is expected. I would not be surprised if they are competing for points by the end of this year. They have a budget in place for 2011, so they have an entire season in which to impress potential sponsors. The Lotus name won't matter for much if they can continue with their momentum. So I can't see the sense in demanding that Group Lotus effectively support them for an entire season unless there is potential trouble in their future.
- 10,373
- Manchester
- Ardius_
Well, like I said, I'm not reading too much into this because for the most part it sounds like an ordinary slagging match.
I don't see any signs Team Lotus are in trouble though...I mean, they just started up their own GP2 operation too, something which no other F1 team can currently claim. You might also notice that Team Air Asia also lack huge amounts of sponsorship logos. Running a GP2 team is not cheap.
Its not like they have been crippled by Proton's departure, they apparently only paid $2 million for 2010 anyway. Its purely the FOM money which is the issue.
I don't see any signs Team Lotus are in trouble though...I mean, they just started up their own GP2 operation too, something which no other F1 team can currently claim. You might also notice that Team Air Asia also lack huge amounts of sponsorship logos. Running a GP2 team is not cheap.
Its not like they have been crippled by Proton's departure, they apparently only paid $2 million for 2010 anyway. Its purely the FOM money which is the issue.
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Anyone else find it hilarious that a lot of analysts, reporters and fans judging performance of a team by if they can top the time sheets, otherwise they say they are in trouble. McLaren are currently topping the time sheets by a small amount ahead of the Torro Rosso and Force India and now people are saying all is well at McLaren. Who knows what level of fuel McLaren were running on that run, they could have had less fuel than the Torro Rosso and better tyres or completely the opposite.
Reliability is the huge concern at McLaren but that should be solved hopefully as they finalize the exhaust package they decide to use.
Personally I think you can only judge performance in testing for the top teams, if they are doing hot laps at similar times and that you can clearly see the ARW being activated and also having high cornering speeds. Long runs is the best to analyse as making the tyres last longer with quick and consistent pace is a sign of a very good car and that usually hints to the fact that the car might have high levels of downforce.
Reliability is the huge concern at McLaren but that should be solved hopefully as they finalize the exhaust package they decide to use.
Personally I think you can only judge performance in testing for the top teams, if they are doing hot laps at similar times and that you can clearly see the ARW being activated and also having high cornering speeds. Long runs is the best to analyse as making the tyres last longer with quick and consistent pace is a sign of a very good car and that usually hints to the fact that the car might have high levels of downforce.
- 10,373
- Manchester
- Ardius_
You can't really take anything away from testing other than which cars look good in the corners. Even long runs are difficult to analyse because you don't always know which tyre they are running and how worn that tyre is. We also don't know if they are running with their KERS on, ARW or even with all their upgrades for the first race.
Its actually easier to view the backmarker teams' progress, because its quite clear that Lotus and Virgin have made some gains.
I do always enjoy reading the annual "OMG season over, <team> are obviously the fastest" or "looks like <team> are in serious trouble" or "obviously <team> are running underweight". It happens without fail everytime and currently Red Bull, McLaren and Williams are those teams respectively this time.
As for McLaren's issues currently, its better to have the reliability issues now so they can sort them out. You can just as easily go without any problems in testing and then suffer severe reliability issues at the races, just as we saw Sauber and Ferrari do (and Red Bull to a lesser extent). Thats not to say it isn't good to go without issues in testing, its obviously hampering their ability to develop setups for the car and gain an understanding of its behaviour (as well as the tyres).
Its actually easier to view the backmarker teams' progress, because its quite clear that Lotus and Virgin have made some gains.
I do always enjoy reading the annual "OMG season over, <team> are obviously the fastest" or "looks like <team> are in serious trouble" or "obviously <team> are running underweight". It happens without fail everytime and currently Red Bull, McLaren and Williams are those teams respectively this time.
As for McLaren's issues currently, its better to have the reliability issues now so they can sort them out. You can just as easily go without any problems in testing and then suffer severe reliability issues at the races, just as we saw Sauber and Ferrari do (and Red Bull to a lesser extent). Thats not to say it isn't good to go without issues in testing, its obviously hampering their ability to develop setups for the car and gain an understanding of its behaviour (as well as the tyres).
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- 10,373
- Manchester
- Ardius_
Lap records are only set during race conditions, so its quite easy to achieve faster times in qualifying and testing.
To put it in perspective:
2010 Pole:
1'19.995 - Mark Webber
2010 Fastest lap:
1'24.357 - Lewis Hamilton
2010 Testing Fastest Lap:
1'20.472 - Lewis Hamilton
2008 Pole:
1'20.701 - Kimi Raikkonen
Circuit de Catalunya Lap record:
1'21.670 - Kimi Raikkonen (2008)
Actually, those lap records are wrong..the 2004 fastest lap is way faster. (1'17.450 - Schumacher). Ah, almost forgot they changed the layout since then, so 2008 is the lap record for the chicaned-version. Still, the official lap record should be all-time, perhaps with a distinction made for both layouts.
Anyway, yeah, lap records are always set during a race. Qualifying, practice and test laptimes are not "official" lap records.
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- 19,679
- Alabamamania
Hmmm...always felt and understood that a new configuraton = (essentially) new track. I mean, the media loves a good headline or announcement without any nasty parenthetical statements to get in the way of it, but many circuits have been cleaved (Paul Ricard, Zandvoort), re-profiled (Catalunya, [just about anything post-1993]), or re-configured considerably (Silverstone, Kyalami) in the past 25 years.
Unless the rules have changed, I always thought that there's really "two sets of books", for race records and qualifying records. There's probably other sorts of records that the circuit wishes to keep as "official" for different types of sanctioned motor sports or testing records, the latter of which are usually overseen by some governing body or another.
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- Manchester
- Ardius_
Indeed, well I just think the wikipedia entry looks a little confusing to state a lap record only on the current layout when the old layout is still used and exists. Other circuits around the world have detailed lap records for their alternate configurations, why not Catalunya?
In the context of this discussion, the only lap record officially stated by anyone is those set during races. I'm sure a record is kept somewhere by the circuit at the very least of ultimate fastest lap records.
In the context of this discussion, the only lap record officially stated by anyone is those set during races. I'm sure a record is kept somewhere by the circuit at the very least of ultimate fastest lap records.
