Would Polyphony need loads of permission to get Le Mans into the game?

[Jawehawk]

Sorry, you misunderstood. I was referring to this.

Do you have a source for the owner of Gran Turismo (Kaz?) not thinking that it's important to recreate real life seasons in GT?

You shouldn't take HKS seriously. He does nothing but complain and aparently he knows everything that goes on at PD.

 

[Pit Crew]

Sorry, you misunderstood. I was referring to this.







Do you have a source for the owner of Gran Turismo (Kaz?) not thinking that it's important to recreate real life seasons in GT?

LOL, I looked for that mysterious quote Imari, and lo and behold, it doesn't exist, but im sure HKS will find something else to justify his pessimistic Point of view.

 

[HKS racer]

Do you have a source for the owner of Gran Turismo (Kaz?) not thinking that it's important to recreate real life seasons in GT?

I've read it in the news section long time ago, he made an interview there was a question about real life series and flag rules he said it wasn't that important, he didn't want GT to be that simulative. Oh and Google is your friend.

 

[BoneSawTX]

Do you have a source for the owner of Gran Turismo (Kaz?) not thinking that it's important to recreate real life seasons in GT?

You don't even need a source, we're 5 versions in and it's clear as day there is nothing that resembles an actual race series.

 

[Imari]

I've read it in the news section long time ago, he made an interview there was a question about real life series and flag rules he said it wasn't that important, he didn't want GT to be that simulative. Oh and Google is your friend.

Your job to find the link, not mine. My job isn't to chase around providing evidence for your claims, just to ask for them when it's needed. If you can't find the evidence, withdraw the statement.

You don't even need a source, we're 5 versions in and it's clear as day there is nothing that resembles an actual race series.

That *implies* that he doesn't care about real race series.

Then again, they went to the trouble of getting WRC, Super GT and NASCAR licenses for GT5. That would seem to indicate that at least at some level they want to involve real race series.

So far, so inconclusive.

P.S. From memory I would say that the Formula GT Championship in GT4 is about the closest they came to doing something approximating a real series. Fake cars, but modelled after real F1 cars, and a championship in a similar vein to what a real series might look like with races of decent lengths as well.

 

[BoneSawTX]

and what did they do with those licenses in the years that they had to produce GT5, add some cars and thats about it.

 

[SagarisGTB]

They would need to license the series like they did with Nascar.

Getting all the required content to replicate the series would purely be down to time constraints.

Unlikely. I imagine an LM24 license (for a game like GT) will get you the track (maybe not even that), use of the name and use of the logo, while a WEC license would fetch use of the WEC name and logo. Simply put, I don't think the WEC has the pull to take away video game rights from the manufacturers, and most series don't (remember the GT3 GT500 Diablo situation?). F1 (and maybe Nascar) is about the only series that has made it's license pretty much all inclusive. To get WEC cars, you would need licenses with Audi, Toyota, Ferrari (which PD have), and Oreca, AMR and Porsche (which PD don't have). These days you can't circumvent a manufacturer license with a series license.

P.S. From memory I would say that the Formula GT Championship in GT4 is about the closest they came to doing something approximating a real series. Fake cars, but modelled after real F1 cars, and a championship in a similar vein to what a real series might look like with races of decent lengths as well.

Fifteen 305km races (well, 14 + 78 laps at Monaco) is about as accurate as you can get while staying within the GT4 game template.

I doubt it changed because Kaz wanted to make the FGT series less genuine. It probably changed because of pressure from Sony to make the game more accessible/shorter or because of feedback from fans/critics.

 

[Imari]

I doubt it changed because Kaz wanted to make the FGT series less genuine. It probably changed because of pressure from Sony to make the game more accessible/shorter or because of feedback from fans/critics.

You're probably right. Unfortunately, they decided it was a better idea to stack crazy long endurance races at the end of the game instead. The GT5 24 hours of Nurb is the definition of inaccessible.

I'd love it if they brought the FGT Championship back, and a few more for Super GT, NASCAR and the like. If they put a slider on it for race length (100% to 10% say) then everyone could enjoy.

 

[fortbo]

You're probably right. Unfortunately, they decided it was a better idea to stack crazy long endurance races at the end of the game instead. The GT5 24 hours of Nurb is the definition of inaccessible.

I'd love it if they brought the FGT Championship back, and a few more for Super GT, NASCAR and the like. If they put a slider on it for race length (100% to 10% say) then everyone could enjoy.

It would be even better if they made the FGT premium

 

[HKS racer]

Your job to find the link, not mine. My job isn't to chase around providing evidence for your claims, just to ask for them when it's needed. If you can't find the evidence, withdraw the statement.

It's not a job nobody pay me to post here I think it's the same for you but I could be wrong. I don't withdraw anything, I remember I have read it in an old interview, old news are hard to find with all this SEO marketing, if you don't believe me I don't care.

You don't even need a source, we're 5 versions in and it's clear as day there is nothing that resembles an actual race series.

Exeactly.
Imari please explain me why the lincesed SuperGT conted had only 3 misarble races in Career mode.

P.S. From memory I would say that the Formula GT Championship in GT4 is about the closest they came to doing something approximating a real series. Fake cars, but modelled after real F1 cars, and a championship in a similar vein to what a real series might look like with races of decent lengths as well.

This thread is about permission to get Le Mans in GT. Le Mans is a real series.
If you say "Formula GT Championship in GT4 say is about the closest they came to doing something approximating a real series" you are basically contraddicting yourself because if they already have real life licences you expect stuff like SuperGT, JGTC, NASCAR and Rally to be used SLIGHTLY better than what they did. Formula GT is fun but not real.

 

[Imari]

It's not a job nobody pay me to post here I think it's the same for you but I could be wrong. I don't withdraw anything, I remember I have read it in an old interview, old news are hard to find with all this SEO marketing, if you don't believe me I don't care.

AUP mate.

You will not knowingly post any material that is false, misleading, or inaccurate.

You made a factual statement, that Kaz doesn't think it's important to include real life series. I'm asking you to prove that you didn't make that up. Post a source.

This thread is about permission to get Le Mans in GT. Le Mans is a real series.
If you say "Formula GT Championship in GT4 say is about the closest they came to doing something approximating a real series" you are basically contraddicting yourself because if they already have real life licences you expect stuff like SuperGT, JGTC, NASCAR and Rally to be used SLIGHTLY better than what they did. Formula GT is fun but not real.

I'm not contradicting anything. It was pointed out that in previous games GT races don't resemble real life races in any way, even without the real licenses that GT5 had. I pointed out that there was one series that was a reasonable representation of a real series, despite it not having real cars in it.

The ingredients are there to make a legitimate series. They've been willing to create something like Formula GT in the past, which replicates the structure of a real series. They've got the cars and license for real series in GT5, but no structure that resembles any sort of real live race series was ever paired with them. Two halves of a whole.

The link then being that if they did one real life series they could easily do another, Le Mans, which is what this thread is about. They don't currently have the Le Mans license so I'd doubt that would be the first thing they might do. But if there were solid Super GT and NASCAR championships implemented I'd think the chances of Le Mans or something else similar being added would be much higher.

Imari please explain me why the lincesed SuperGT conted had only 3 misarble races in Career mode.

I'm not even entirely sure what you're asking here. Are you asking why the licensed Super GT content only had 3 races? How would I know? If you ask me, I think they should have made a full championship out of it. But then, I think the entirety of GT5 A-spec was horrible so I'm not the best person to ask.

 

[HKS racer]

You can't add some random cars and 3 random tracks and violà we have "REAL LIFE SERIES". You just have a very little part of it. You perfectly know how bad they used SuperGT and other licences in A-spec, so what exactly make you think/hope/suggest "they could easily do another, Le Mans" ? Formula GT? An all seriousness that's a bit optimistic.
Even if they license the whole Le Mans grid, for the players it's about HOW they use this license. They'll give us what? 24h of Le Mans or WEC? How many cars? 5? 10? 15? The whole grid? Multiclass yes or no? Machanical problem yes or no? Flag rules yes or no? How many cars GT6 can render on track? This is the stuff we should think about if and when they tell us they have a Le Mans license.

So, considering all the historical limitations of GT series if your goal is to simulate Le Mans, actually GT is not the right game for you, as I said.

 

[Imari]

You can't add some random cars and 3 random tracks and violà we have "REAL LIFE SERIES". You just have a very little part of it. You perfectly know how bad they used SuperGT and other licences in A-spec, so what exactly make you think/hope/suggest "they could easily do another, Le Mans" ? Formula GT? An all seriousness that's a bit optimistic.

I think you're misreading what I'm saying.

I'm saying they currently DON'T have real life series in the game. They have the names, sure. But without the structure of the series at least moderately resembling something realistic, it's just not.

Which you seem to understand, and I'm not entirely sure why you think I'm saying anything different.

They HAVE at various points had the licenses, the cars and the race structures, but they have never put them all together. There's not really anything stopping them, as far as I can see. They just haven't done it.

Le Mans is pretty hard, as far as real life races go. But if you had a livery editor (not out of the question), a few different prototypes and a few GT class cars you could make a decent go at it. You're not going to get every team, but get a few and let the players sort the rest out. You're obviously not going to get 40+ cars on track at the same time, but no current console game is capable of that and you need a fairly good computer with PC sims to pull that off. 16 is a good start, and if they wanted to be clever there's trickery like FM4s passing challenges possible to make it look like there's more cars on track. GTA '10 showed that GT had at least been working on flag rules. I can think of no real reason why they couldn't do multiclass.

I don't see why it would be impossible to do in GT. I do see that they haven't really tried in the past, but I don't see that it's been a conscious decision on the part of the developers to say "we don't want to do real races".

You seem to think that GT will never do it and those of us that want it should bugger off to some other game. I still like GT (for all that I dislike GT5 specifically) and I want to see it incorporate new things like this so that it can grow as a game. If all GT7 has is the same Clubman Cup/Sunday Cup/etc rubbish, it's going to be on it's way to a slow death.

 

[HKS racer]

Well, we all agree there's no one stopping them, as Kaz say "it's technically possible". Lot of stuff is technically possible.
The point is why, WHY after 15 years they don't have a well represented official series yet. This only one of the 1000 "why oh why" questions a GT fan made in this forum. Gtplanet is full of advices about easy to implement things that would considerably improve gameplay a lot. All this stuff ingored by developers, because you know, they have "their own vision".

You said they experimented flag rules in GTA'10 ok cool but we have no flag rules in GT5. They can still change their mind, everyone can, they point is WHEN. GT6? I'll believe it when I see it. Until then I base my opinions on what they did in previous GT's.

Le Mans in GT is technically possible, with 16 cars on track (which is not a full grid) but as most of us thinks, better than nothing. Actually we have random Prototypes of random years running against random GT cars of random years and no multiclass. Let's talk again when they'll have something more because I feel the discussion is pretty much over now. Thank you for the conversation. Have a nice day you are a good Gtp user.

 

[A_Higher_Place]

Even if they did a copy of ALMS PC class. Every prototype is the extra same just different livery... How simple is that idea? :/

 

[ShiftingGears]

Well, we all agree there's no one stopping them, as Kaz say "it's technically possible". Lot of stuff is technically possible.
The point is why, WHY after 15 years they don't have a well represented official series yet. This only one of the 1000 "why oh why" questions a GT fan made in this forum. Gtplanet is full of advices about easy to implement things that would considerably improve gameplay a lot. All this stuff ingored by developers, because you know, they have "their own vision".

You said they experimented flag rules in GTA'10 ok cool but we have no flag rules in GT5. They can still change their mind, everyone can, they point is WHEN. GT6? I'll believe it when I see it. Until then I base my opinions on what they did in previous GT's.

Le Mans in GT is technically possible, with 16 cars on track (which is not a full grid) but as most of us thinks, better than nothing. Actually we have random Prototypes of random years running against random GT cars of random years and no multiclass. Let's talk again when they'll have something more because I feel the discussion is pretty much over now. Thank you for the conversation. Have a nice day you are a good Gtp user.

I agree - PD should be significantly stepping their game up in this respect. I just hope that if they don't then they'll face a serious competitor on the Playstation console sooner rather than later.

 

[SagarisGTB]

You're probably right. Unfortunately, they decided it was a better idea to stack crazy long endurance races at the end of the game instead. The GT5 24 hours of Nurb is the definition of inaccessible.

I imagine it was easier for PD to reduce FGT instead of Kaz's babies, the 24 hour races: one where he himself competes annually and the other the most famous of the all where GT has had a significant presence in the past.

And agreed, it's way way over the top. Even with game saves, it's not realistic, nor enticing. Personally, I'd remove endurance races from Aspec and Bspec and put them in their own category and allow players to use Aspec, Bspec or both together (GT4-esque). What's the whole point of Bspec if you can't split time with your drivers in long endurance races? But I digress.

Le Mans in GT is technically possible, with 16 cars on track (which is not a full grid) but as most of us thinks, better than nothing. Actually we have random Prototypes of random years running against random GT cars of random years and no multiclass.

As far as I know, no game has a full grid of prototype and GT cars from a single year (official cars, not mods). And is there any game that offers grids of 55 cars for offline racing?

PD has a limited selection of LM cars (a rather weak selection granted), but so does everybody else. Some have less.
I don't expect PD to deliver a huge swarm of LM cars in GT6, and it's not a big deal. PD's priorities should lie elsewhere and more promising grids of cars should be filled out first (Super GT and GT3). LM isn't going to make or break the game in any way.

 

[HKS racer]

As far as I know, no game has a full grid of prototype and GT cars from a single year (official cars, not mods). And is there any game that offers grids of 55 cars for offline racing?

PD has a limited selection of LM cars (a rather weak selection granted), but so does everybody else. Some have less.
I don't expect PD to deliver a huge swarm of LM cars in GT6, and it's not a big deal. PD's priorities should lie elsewhere and more promising grids of cars should be filled out first (Super GT and GT3). LM isn't going to make or break the game in any way.

So what's the point of your post? Advocating Gran Turismo for the sake of it? Good. This thread is about Le Mans in GT, licensing and technical related issues of a 50+ grid. It's not like if GT can't render more than 16 cars on track other games in other platform can't. Also I don't get why someone shouldn't consider mods.



start at 11 min.


also Project Cars can have a huge grid.

 

[Imari]

Project CARS only goes up to 45+player at the moment. I feel like I remember it being 63+player before, but I'm not sure.

 

[HKS racer]

Project CARS only goes up to 45+player at the moment. I feel like I remember it being 63+player before, but I'm not sure.

You may agree with me that 45 cars grid are better than 16 cars if your goal is to simulate some sort of endurance racing, expecially with multclass.

 

[luffe98]

So what's the point of your post? Advocating Gran Turismo for the sake of it? Good. This thread is about Le Mans in GT, licensing and technical related issues of a 50+ grid. It's not like if GT can't render more than 16 cars on track other games in other platform can't. Also I don't get why someone shouldn't consider mods.

It's not about PD don't bothering getting multi-class racing in GT. It's about how much the console can handle. If we are getting GT7 for PS4, i am sure the console can render much more than 16 cars.

 

[Jawehawk]

It's not about PD don't bothering getting multi-class racing in GT. It's about how much the console can handle. If we are getting GT7 for PS4, i am sure the console can render much more than 16 cars.

I really don't think it's power limitations that are preventing PD from doing multi class racing.

 

[Imari]

You may agree with me that 45 cars grid are better than 16 cars if your goal is to simulate some sort of endurance racing, expecially with multclass.

To simulate most racing series you need 20+ cars on track minimum, and being able to handle more like 30 would be desirable. For endurance racing, 45 would be nice, of course. The higher the better, although it depends on track size for how many cars can safely be on track at once without it turning into a big traffic jam. 24 hours of Nurb has 200+ entries per year.

 

[grashopper]

I really don't think it's power limitations that are preventing PD from doing multi class racing.

With system limitations keeping the car count on track to 16 cars... They might feel only 4 cars or so per class isn't very good for racing.

 

[ShiftingGears]

With system limitations keeping the car count on track to 16 cars... They might feel only 4 cars or so per class isn't very good for racing.

Clearly fitting four classes into a 16 car grid would be ridiculous...but remember they haven't even attempted two-class racing either.

 

[symustafa1996]

As much as we all want another series licensed in the game, I think they should explore the ones they have now more, basically NASCAR, WRC and Super GT. They are all well represented in GT5, but more could be done, like official rally stages, more NASCAR tracks, and more races for Super GT. And then we can talk about the others, like NASCAR, FIA GT3, DTM etc.

 

[SagarisGTB]

So what's the point of your post? Advocating Gran Turismo for the sake of it? Good. This thread is about Le Mans in GT, licensing and technical related issues of a 50+ grid. It's not like if GT can't render more than 16 cars on track other games in other platform can't.

The point is to keep your expectations in check. Nobody puts out a grid of 55 AI, especially not on consoles. Nobody has a full grid of licensed cars, especially not one with anything close to the quality of GT5's car models. What's the point of talking about such things when it's obviously not going to happen (especially not on the PS3) in GT6 and nobody else does it either?

Also I don't get why someone shouldn't consider mods.

You serious? Even ignoring quality control issues, it's apples and oranges.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Even if they did a copy of ALMS PC class. Every prototype is the extra same just different livery... How simple is that idea? :/

So basically you want a spec class, in PC? And if they can get PC why not P1/P2? Even if it isn't a ton of cars it could still be fun.

I think what we all want is RM versions of GT3 or GTE cars.

 

[A_Higher_Place]

So basically you want a spec class, in PC? And if they can get PC why not P1/P2? Even if it isn't a ton of cars it could still be fun.

I think what we all want is RM versions of GT3 or GTE cars.

Well because 1) we don't have PC yet and 2) It's soooo basic that PD should be able to do it.

If PD had to model P1/P2 they would have to model cars with different specs, which means they'd have to get each individual car right.

I just no longer have those type of expectations for PD. I do understand your point though.

RM's that can be tuned to GT3's like the Corvette we have already is all I could really ask. Italia, mp4-12c, new viper etc. Yes please!

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Well because 1) we don't have PC yet and 2) It's soooo basic that PD should be able to do it.

If PD had to model P1/P2 they would have to model cars with different specs, which means they'd have to get each individual car right.

They already have to get individual cars right and yet again if they are getting an ALMS license like what Forza has...they'd have P1/P2 and GTE. To just only use PC or GTC and if spec racing is the idea then shouldn't we be focusing on true spec series that probably should be in the game rather than those of LMS groups?

The idea behind Le Mans for most I'd say would be the variety in engineering not using the few spec groups. I mean I'm fine with PC (since GTC would never happen), but it shouldn't be the only one.

I just no longer have those type of expectations for PD. I do understand your point though.

RM's that can be tuned to GT3's like the Corvette we have already is all I could really ask. Italia, mp4-12c, new viper etc. Yes please!

That's fine and I've shown on plenty of threads for the past 2 years that I don't either. However, not everyone gets it perfect and the argument can be made that Forza doesn't either (though this isn't a vs thread so let's not go there). Point is GT can simulate a noticeable difference.

The Corvette's in GT aren't anywhere near GT3 level they are both GTE fiction cars.