Yet *another* Model of 360

The problems you mention with the failed AH tests aren't a factor in 99% of DVDs. I've yet to come across any that pose a problem when deinterlacing.

And my TV does just fine at deinterlacing 480i content through component. It's losing nothing, believe me. I've worked with raw video long enough to know exactly what I'm looking for when it comes to deinterlacing and inverse pulldown.

Unfortunately, I have no way of sending 1080i signals to it to see how it performs, except GT4. But since it's not 24p, the TV has no choice but to eliminate one field. Any other TV would do the same with that particular signal.

Beyond that, I have no reason to feed it a 1080i signal. My X360 is set to 1080p, as will be my PS3 (I will in fact disable 1080i). Blu-ray/HD-DVD will always be 1080p. I can't think of any 1080i signal that I would ever send to it (for the record, I don't watch television, so over-the-air 1080i broadcasts will never be seen, either).

The HDMI "problem" wasn't fully researched by AH, I think. Several owners of the TV did complain about the "sparkle" issue, but later reported that the problem vanished when they bought better cables. Apparently, buying "bottom of the barrel" HDMI cables does have an effect, so I'll be avoiding them (but I'm not stupid enough to buy $100 Monster cables, either).

Westinghouse's reputation isn't near as "bad" as you make it out to be, either. I'll be the first to admit that it's not a top-of-the-line TV, but that doesn't necessarily mean it sucks. But considering the price, it's still one hell of a bargain. As an example, when I first saw the thing set up in Best Buy before I bought mine, they had it sitting next to a Sony 1080p LCD. Contrast and color between the two were identical. The only noticable difference was that the Sony image appeared to be sharper, but I quickly realized this was because of some sort of edge-enhancement processing that was happening in the TV. And after only a minute or so, the artifacts became highly annoying. Had the feature been turned off, as any self-respecting videophile will do, I imagine the image would have been nigh-indistinguishable from the Westy.

And did I mention that the Sony was double the price?

That's what it came down to, really. Cost versus return. I was upgrading from a very old SDTV. The leap to HD was so great that any further leap to a "better" HDTV simply wasn't worth paying another two grand. For twice the price, I would NOT have gotten twice the quality.

I don't know what Westinghouse did to you to make you hate them so much, or maybe you just hang around a bunch of Westy-haters or something.. but it's not near as bad as you make it out to be. Nowhere close.
 
Jedi2016
It's called a "press packet", or something to that effect. Shortly after the film was released, I had temporary access to insider press-release information from Pixar, I grabbed about a half a dozen images. Each had a small bit at the bottom saying where the image was taken from.
Click to expand...

If you're not sure if it's called a "press packet" or not, I'm sure you'll understand why I still doubt you on this. Especially considering you were wrong on so many other points....

Not outright saying you're wrong, just saying that you don't have much to back up your claims.


Jedi2016
I don't know what Westinghouse did to you to make you hate them so much, or maybe you just hang around a bunch of Westy-haters or something.. but it's not near as bad as you make it out to be. Nowhere close.
Click to expand...

Oh, it's a lot better than the junk from Korea, but it's nowhere near as good as anything Japanese. And when you've seen the decline of a great company like Westinghouse (who was there right at the beginning of TV and almost every other consumer electronic device) over the past decades, it makes you wonder why they continue to make anything. It's not just about picture quality, although that is a major problem compared to Sony/Fujitsu/etc., it's about integration: I challenge you to find me discrete codes for any Westinghouse TV.
 
Jedi2016
The problems you mention with the failed AH tests aren't a factor in 99% of DVDs.
Click to expand...
??? Some of those test are not simply DVD related, and yes, they do exist, and have been documented by other reviewers and users.

I can't think of any 1080i signal that I would ever send to it (for the record, I don't watch television, so over-the-air 1080i broadcasts will never be seen, either).
Click to expand...
That's good, but others who do want to watch HD programming will lose detail, so its important to identify these issues.

The HDMI "problem" wasn't fully researched by AH, I think.
Click to expand...
Right... ;) I think not. They are not the only ones that identified the problem.

Several owners of the TV did complain about the "sparkle" issue, but later reported that the problem vanished when they bought better cables. Apparently, buying "bottom of the barrel" HDMI cables does have an effect, so I'll be avoiding them (but I'm not stupid enough to buy $100 Monster cables, either).
Click to expand...
a) AH used professional grade 22 AWG HDMI cable.

b) There have been countless HDMI comparisons that show even the so-called elcheapo stuff works just as well, only that for longer runs and for runs near power cords, a higher shield rating is needed. The fact that some owners suggest that switching the cable fixed this issue suggests what they saw was something completely unrelated.

Westinghouse's reputation isn't near as "bad" as you make it out to be, either. I'll be the first to admit that it's not a top-of-the-line TV, but that doesn't necessarily mean it sucks.
Click to expand...
I never said it did. I simply pointed out some actual facts about this series, as well as their past history.

But considering the price, it's still one hell of a bargain. As an example, when I first saw the thing set up in Best Buy before I bought mine, they had it sitting next to a Sony 1080p LCD. Contrast and color between the two were identical.
Click to expand...
That's entirely absurd. I myself have done ISF calibrations using a Sencore colorimeter and Datacolor ColorFacts Pro on both of these LCD TVs, and the Sony has a significantly better contrast ratio, in fact over five times greater than the Westinghouse. On top of that the Westinghouse suffers from a great deal of black level crush. I do agree though, that once calibrated, they both have excellent color acuity!

Next time, I suggest you avoid doing comparisons based on a Best Buy, or any mass market retailer display.

The only noticeable difference was that the Sony image appeared to be sharper, but I quickly realized this was because of some sort of edge-enhancement processing that was happening in the TV. And after only a minute or so, the artifacts became highly annoying.
Click to expand...
"some sort of"? Is that a new technical term? ;) (kidding)

And did I mention that the Sony was double the price?
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It pays to shop around, as the 46" Bravia 2500 was available last month for $2,500 shipped, no tax from several highly reputable online retailers.

That's what it came down to, really. Cost versus return. I was upgrading from a very old SDTV. The leap to HD was so great that any further leap to a "better" HDTV simply wasn't worth paying another two grand. For twice the price, I would NOT have gotten twice the quality.
Click to expand...
I can certainly respect that, but unless you bought the Westy for $500 including any taxes and shipping, then you are exaggerating the price differences by quite a lot.

I don't know what Westinghouse did to you to make you hate them so much, or maybe you just hang around a bunch of Westy-haters or something.. but it's not near as bad as you make it out to be. Nowhere close.
Click to expand...
Nothing, but as a calibrator, and heavily involved individual in display technology for the last twenty years, I do have a lot of personal hands on experience with just about every brand.

Instead of blaming negative reviews on some kind of anti-Westinghouse bias, your observations suggest that you have a pretty big case of the buyers bias... which is completely normal for any of us who have just picked up some new gear, especially when it is your first HD display purchase.

Regardless, I don't hate Westinghouse, nor have they done anything that might make me hate them, nor do I hang out with anyone with grudges against any brand. Nor does anyone have to do any of these things to recognize the limitations of this and other Westinghouse products. As I said, for the right price, and for those who can look past its limitations, it could make for an excellent value purchase.
 
harrytuttle
If you're not sure if it's called a "press packet" or not, I'm sure you'll understand why I still doubt you on this. Especially considering you were wrong on so many other points....

Not outright saying you're wrong, just saying that you don't have much to back up your claims.
Click to expand...

I already told you I can't post the pictures.

And the reason I didn't know the precise name was because I don't know the pricise name. There's a term for a packet of information that's given out to the press. I don't know what that term is. I was given a link to a website. I found some cool images, and I downloaded them. That's all there is to it. Whether you believe me or not is entirely up to you. I know what I've seen.

DN: I'm not trying to argue about whether the Westy is the world's greatest TV. But for a guy who doesn't make a lot of money, being able to buy a 47" 1080p HDTV is a pretty big deal, and I'm quite happy with that purchase.

As for the HDMI issue, I'm not sure how many different versions of the "sparkles" there can be. If two people see them and describe them exactly the same way, chances are they're talking about the same phenomenon. Either way, it's not much of a concern. I have three digital inputs... if one has problems, I can always use the other two, especially considering I'll probably only have two HDMI devices connected to it at any time in the forseeable future (PS3 and whatever HD disc reader I end up getting).

I read the AH review a dozen times over, and a dozen times again.. I'm even a member of their forums. I tend to value their opinion quite highly, and in the end, they actually gave the TV a pretty good review. I was especially pleased with the five-star "value" rating.

I may end up asking Clint directly what he was talking about with the following:

Audioholics
the HDMI input was apparently throttled down to only (correctly) accept 720p/1080i inputs
Click to expand...

The picture right next to that paragraph shows the HDMI input accepting a 1080p signal, and I've heard nothing on any other forum about this.
 
Duċk;2536605
Wow, D-N, you sure do value every last pixel and decibel in your entertainment, even if it'll cost you a fortune to obtain it.
Click to expand...
While I do focus on, appreciate, and support any technology that improves audio and visual presentations, there is no need to go to extremes Duck. Selecting a top performing display dosen't have to come any where close to costing a fortune... unless you and I have very different ideas of what "costing a fortune mean". ;)
 
Digital-Nitrate
While I do focus on, appreciate, and support any technology that improves audio and visual presentations, there is no need to go to extremes Duck. Selecting a top performing display dosen't have to come any where close to costing a fortune... unless you and I have very different ideas of what "costing a fortune mean". ;)
Click to expand...

...That's probably the case.
 
Me? I don't care. We just got a 720p HDTV. I think it looks great, but I have no preclusions to spending any more than what it cost for Hi-Def anything.
 
...I myself have been looking into a Westinghouse 19-27" HDTV, as they are pretty cheap, get pretty decent marks for reliability, and do everything I will need them to do with the 360 and the HD Cable box. For a little over $500, you really can't complain much. The only other LCDs that go that cheap with similar performance is the Insigna models from Best Buy, but I'm in doubt over how "great" those TVs may be.

...Either way, I'm looking for a moderately sized TV that has at least a native image of 720p (for the 360). Having HDMI is certainly a plus, but it isn't required. I'm just looking for a good TV for $500-600 (or less) that will go into my bedroom, show HD content over the air for NFL Football and NASCAR, and obviously screen games and DVDs in high-def. I don't think thats too much to ask, is it?
 
YSSMAN
...show HD content over the air for NFL Football and NASCAR...
Click to expand...

I think you're out of luck with Westinghouse, then. While I haven't researched every TV they make, the 1080p models don't include a TV tuner. Technically, that classifies them as "monitors" and not "televisions" (but I'm quite comfortable with the idea of a 47" 1080p widescreen "monitor".. hehe). You'll need an external tuner of some sort to watch TV with (could be anything, really.. cable/satellite box, VCR, whatever).

If TV is a big thing for you, you'll definitely want to research the individual TVs to make sure they have a tuner, if you don't have an external one.
 
...I'm really not looking to play the 1080p game at the moment. I believe the Westinghouse models I was looking at were indeed "HD-ready," which if I am not mistaken, can pick up HD-signals over the air (please correct me if I'm wrong) with the right equipment to go with them. I'm really not dreaming too big here, just a decent sized HDTV for my bedroom to replace the current 20" (or is it a 23"?) model that I use for most of my gaming (it has a pretty good stereo setup built in, top-notch stuff back in the day according to Dad, a former techie).

I figure I'm looking between $400-600 to get anything worth my while, and the current 19" 16:9 Westinghouse I've considered does most of what I need for about $400. I have thought about spending the extra $300 for the 16:9 27" model that does include HDMI ports, however that would be more for the family room than my own bedroom. Added to that, it pretty much blows my current budget (already blown with books for school, fixing the Jetta, and Christmas bills that still need to be paid).

...I'll probably end up with at least one HDTV in my house by the end of the year, but it is questionable as to how big it will be, where it will go, and what company it will come from. I'm not looking for top-end stuff, but what I will actually need with what I already have, and what I may intend to get in the near-future.

But until then, I'm stuck with NTSC like everyone else. Unless of course I "borrow" my Aunt's 42" LCD display...
 
Toronado
Me? I don't care. We just got a 720p HDTV. I think it looks great.
Click to expand...
Same here. The Xbox 360 sure as hell looks better playing on a 32" 720p than on my ancient 20" CRT. Sure it's an el cheapo LCD TV, but it does the trick. My only issue is that I have to keep adjusting the brightness and contrast when changing from playing games on the Xbox and watching DVDs on it - when games look fine, the DVD colours look washed out, and when the DVDs look okay, the games look too murky and dark - but I've heard there's issues with the DVD playback quality on the Xbox 360.


KM.
 
Source: CVG

Xbox 360 version II is just "experimentation", says MS

HDMI-enabled hardware is "not really a product that we're thinking about announcing," says Microsoft's Chris Satchell

Microsoft game developer group boss Chris Satchell has addressed recent rumours of revised HDMI-enabled Xbox 360 hardware, saying that the remixed console is simply an "experimentation".

Photographs of the new hardware appeared on the internet at the end of last week, showing an additional HDMI port on the rear of the console - there was also talk of a 120GB HDD being on the cards.

"At the moment, everything you might have seen is just looking at our experimentation back in Redmond, not really a product that we're thinking about announcing," Satchell told Gamespot.

But while the new hardware might be off the cards, Satchell didn't rule out the possibility of a bumped-up hard disk, saying "if we see an increase in pressure that's something that will be interesting to look at, but there isn't any announcement today about any new configuration that may or may not be happening."

Which might be useful when the recently announced Xbox 360 IPTV service arrives, which Satchell says he hopes to integrate via a dashboard update, rather than a disc install. "Obviously our preference normally is to do everything online because that's where people are at," he said.

Microsoft plans to launch the Xbox 360 IPTV - which, in a nutshell, allows you to stream TV through your 360 (the cost of which Microsoft is apparently leaving up to its partners) - "by holiday 2007".

----

I had a feeling the news on Page One was just a rumour
 
Microsoft is smart to "experiment," but I think the production possibilities are certainly there. What it comes down to is that HDMI isn't critical to most folks, so presumably Microsoft with soldier on without it for the foreseeable future. But as noted, the IPTV does call for a larger hard-drive, and I wouldn't doubt seeing a larger model offered in the near-future. We've already gone through the 100 GB hard drive rumors before, and 120 GB now sounds great, so it sounds as though Microsoft is indeed thinking about expanded memory a lot, and I would guess that it will end up happening (eventually).

...What will be interesting is how the 360 will hook up with all this fancy networking stuff that Microsoft has been showing off at CES, etc. With the Zune likely to get some kind of gaming update, I'm interested to see how that will work out with the 360, added to that, the new ways in which Vista will be able to connect with so many different devices.

I do wonder, though. How hard will it be for Ford to get the 360 going with this new Ford + Microsoft = Sync thingy...
 
TVR&Ferrari_Fan
I had a feeling the news on Page One was just a rumour
Click to expand...
Except its a little more than a rumor, as even MS has now admitted that the pics are real, and that they even go so far as to say, "At the moment, everything you might have seen is just looking at our experimentation back in Redmond, not really a product that we're thinking about announcing,"

The fact that they admit it exists, and the fact that MS, like many companies is not in the habbit of making protoypes of products it isn't at least considering releasing not only confirms that this new XB360 design exists, but that MS is obviously considering it as a possible consumer product.

One can easily read into this as a smart response to a public outing of their future XB360 plans that if consumers believe it to be true then it would seriously hurt current XB360 sales. After all, if they knew a better XB360 edition was coming out and it wouldn't cost any or much more than the older edition, why would they buy the old one?

I think it is very clever and smart of MS to say "at the moment, it isn't a real product" and "announcing" instead of "releasing", because it sort of denies that the product is actually coming out, but at the same time if they do release a new edition, they can always say they didn't lie, because at that moment, it wasn't coming out and they weren't thinking about announcing it.... but now they changed their mind. ;)

This way they can keep interest in the current XB360, and then create more sales when the new edition comes out later in the year.

While I'm sure executives at MS are VERY upset about the leak, I think their response to it is a well orchestrated one.
 
Toronado
Explain this "TV Tuner."
Click to expand...

A connection on the back of your TV that will directly accept a modulated RF signal (over the air, CATV, etc.). That is, your TV can display NBC without a cable or satellite box.


YSSMAN
...I'm really not looking to play the 1080p game at the moment. I believe the Westinghouse models I was looking at were indeed "HD-ready," which if I am not mistaken, can pick up HD-signals over the air (please correct me if I'm wrong) with the right equipment to go with them.
Click to expand...

HD-Ready does not mean that it has a tuner of any kind; it just means that it can display HD video (from some non-specific source). If the TV can pick up HD channels from the antenna on the roof (or over CATV without a cable/satellite box), it will most likely have this logo on it:
Logo_HD-TV.jpg


That image implies that it is a full high-definition television, and that along with being able to display HD video, it can tune it as well.
 
Most of the follow-up stories written on IGN and GameSpot had said the same basic stuff, "Microsoft doesn't want to comment on any rumor or speculation at the current time." However they did twist some arms, and chances are that there were some dev units that have a lot of the new equipment. However, GameSpot was quick to point out that at least in the area of the HDD, dev units had originally shipped with 60 GB HDDs, so they were surprised that a new model didn't include that size of HDD.

...Meh, I don't know. It doesn't sound like Microsoft is too quick to jump towards the new hardware yet, but I wouldn't count out the possibility in the near-future...
 
I would like some kind of HDD upgrade that would allow you to upgrade from the 20GB HDD to a bigger version , so you can pay the price for teh HDD only
 
Looks like the rumors about Microsoft using a better DVD drive for some of their more recently built XB360s is true:


New Xbox 360s Shipping with Upgraded DVD Drive

February 6, 2007 - Xbox-Scene.com, a long standing community of Xbox and 360 hackers and modders, exposed an unpublicized, yet positive, upgrade to the Xbox 360's hardware. According to sources, a portion of Xbox 360s produced from November '06 onwards are incorporating a new, quieter DVD drive. Previous 360s have used Toshiba-Samsung and Hitachi-LG drives, the sources of the 360's characteristic whirr. The new DVD drives, manufactured by BenQ, are significantly quieter and are based upon a Philips design superior to others employed in Xbox 360s.

It is likely that ever increasing percentages of newly manufactured 360s will include the new BenQ drive until the remaining supply of the older DVD drives is completely exhausted. Owners of Xbox 360s with the BenQ drive have reported significantly quieter operation and slightly quicker load times.
Click to expand...
 
Yet another article:

Sony's big coming-out party for the PlayStation 3 is planned for 23 March. The company says it will have around a million PS3s ready, which means there are plenty of invites. But rumour has it Microsoft could be prepping to crash the event.

According to GamersReports, Microsoft has been talking in Australia about a new model of the Xbox 360. This particular unit will include a 120 GB hard drive and an HDMI connector for pumping out pure digital high-definition signals. The new system is also said to be black. Release date - April 2007

Microsoft has not commented on the veracity of the reports and didn't return our call for comments.

It's worth pointing out that the system would appear to be nearly identical to the Zephyr model Xbox 360 spotted by Engadget recently, except for the black colour. Microsoft subsequently confirmed that this particular model exists but that it is part of internal "experimentation", according to a GameSpot interview with Microsoft's Chris Satchell.
Click to expand...

Source

If this is all true, I'll be slightly peed off that my console will become nearly superseded...
 
This is really hilarious to me! :lol: I cannot believe that MS are screwing there fans like that! So they released a Sub next gen console which was developed in a year..... now realise oh damn... it overheats and it doesnt do HDMI or play HD-DVD so lets make an xbox 360-2 and make people pay again.....that would so piss me off if I had bought one... especially if it was recient.....so glad im sticking with PS3... you can be definately sure that sony wont release another anytime soon, it took them like 9 years to make it and you know what sonys like with time management! :lol:... so another it out of the question for aleast another 10 years!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcACuy4x8nA
 
Robin ///////
This is really hilarious to me! :lol: I cannot believe that MS are screwing there fans like that! So they released a Sub next gen console which was developed in a year..... now realise oh damn... it overheats and it doesnt do HDMI or play HD-DVD so lets make an xbox 360-2 and make people pay again.....that would so piss me off if I had bought one... especially if it was recient.....so glad im sticking with PS3... you can be definately sure that sony wont release another anytime soon, it took them like 9 years to make it and you know what sonys like with time management! :lol:... so another it out of the question for aleast another 10 years!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcACuy4x8nA
Click to expand...

This post has so many idiotic things in it I'm not even going to bother.
 

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