(yet another question) Misfiring systems..
- Thread starter Slip
- 24 comments
- 3,133 views
- 24
whats a mis-firing system?
- 7,588
- Whateversville
- Flerbizky
ALS - Anti-Lag System... A system to keep the turbo in the usable area even though the engines RPM isn't up to speed :everybodysfool
Technical Expl. Linkage
the Interceptor
Premium
- 4,175
- BEL / GER
- theInterceptor77
You're talking about backfire, the question was about misfire though. And to answer the actual question, it's not featured in GT4, at least not as far as I know.naruto
- 2,028
- RyosukeGunma
- Tau88
Initial D! 
.Too bad it doesn't have misfire, i would tune my Lancer Evolution III.
.Too bad it doesn't have misfire, i would tune my Lancer Evolution III.
- 69
- Playing GT6
- wolfgang71
- mrhemi1971
I wonder if everybody is confusing Backfire with Burnoff. A backfire happens when an engine is improperly tuned, causing ignited fuel to return through the intake. Burn-off happens when raw fuel ignites in the exhaust when the throttle closes and the A/F mixture goes REALLY rich. In all my years of racing I've never heard it called BACKfire.
- 2,837
- GTP_Div
So Lemans cars are improperly tuned huh...
- 69
- Playing GT6
- wolfgang71
- mrhemi1971
Not at all. LeMans cars experience burnoff, they don't backfire. the pop comes from the way the fuel enters the exhaust.
- 1,792
As mrhemi1971 said, I thought Backfire was when fuel leaked into the manifolds and down to the exhaust where it ignited and produced a flame. Not really something you want is it, your fuel leaking past the cylinders unless you use something like a ALS system.
- 69
- Playing GT6
- wolfgang71
- mrhemi1971
the backfire occurs when the fuel gets ignited and the intake valve is opened, which causes the flame to come BACK through the carb or throttle body.
- 128
Flerbizky
Very nice explanation, thank you lots Flerbizky!
Slip
Well its not a misfire, the motor has nothing to do with it. Fuel and a sparkplug are in the turbo manifold to keep the turbo spooled up. Usually they are only used on rally cars but they dont use really big turbos so they are fast to spool up.
Its why when you watch WRC you here that popping when the car is breaking, thats what you are heiring
naruto
Yes I'm quoting myself. I'm not to say the flame that shoots out of the exaust in GT4 was caused by the misfiring system. I'm just saying from what I saw and heard off of GT4 videos. Who knows maybe KY also added the misfiring system in this installment. Sure fooled me. Can't wait to actually play this game tomorrow
.Oh boy, where to begine with this one...
First of all, stop watching Initial-D. ITs a freaking cartoon (excuse me fanboys 'anime'), its fake, i.e. not real...so dont think that you are learning somthing from watching it.
Seconedly, Anti-Lag systems are not what they used to be. THis is due greatly tot he fact that turbo technology in the last 5 years has greatly advanced. To the point that Turbo lag is almost a thing of the past.
Lets step back about 20 years to the early 80's where turbos where really moving into the forefront of racing. In Formula-1, Group-C, and Group-B rallying.
In Formula-1, and Group-C, you where alwasy dealing with high engine RPM, and long throttle on situations. The need for fast acting, quick spooling turbos was not a priority. It wasnt untill the mid 80's when Group-B rallying picked up that turbo lag became noticable. This was becuase the turbo systems where no where near as refined as they are today. Becuase back 20 years ago, even though computers deigned and machined the turbos, they didnt have the computer models they do today to rtuely map the turbo and increse its efficiency. And, believe it or not, they had no anti-lag either. So the driver had to adopt their driving style to acomodate the need for imidiate power comnig out of a corner.
Enter left foot braking. By pegging the throttle with your right foot, and braking with your left foot, yor are slowing down the car, while still producing load on the engine, this keeps manifold pressure up, and keeps the turbo spooled. Providing power out of a corner.
Once Group-B died, and the Group-A format was adopted, it was quickly aparent that the Turbo lag problem would be a big one. SPecificly because of the dramatic loss in power, the engines simply could not produce enough power for left foot braking to be praticle.
So, Toyota and Lancia set out to develop systems to overcome this. And antilag was born.
Initially Anti-Lag was VERY simple. Useing a simple retarding of the timing on the distributor, with a vacume advance sylenoid. This would delay the spark of the engine, long into the exaust stroke. With the unburnt fuel dumping intot he exaust manifold, it would ignite upon contact with the glowing turbo housing. At about that same time, the plug would fire, right before the exaust valve closed, ensuring the forse of the blast was directed at turbo's turbine houseing. This is effectively making the car "mis-fire" to keep boost presure up, to allow for imidiate throttle responce.
The good part is, boost was maintained. But the engine was set to thrash about as a fuel pump, and have alot of extra wear.
Toyota finially developed the first computer controlled Anti-Lag system, which involved an electronic ignition system, and electronic injector system to be able to control the spark, and the fuel mixture to the cylinder. This worked very well, and was a standared for a long time.
Untill the French got their hands on it. And thats when Anti-Lag systems went the way of the computer. Beucase with things like Cam Phasing, it was now posible to hold the valves open longer, use direct injection for the fuel, and controled sparking. Which improved the efficiency of the system nearly 10 fold.
Infact, modern day Anti-Lag systems, which are guarded in HIGH secrecy by rally teams, is so advanced, that you almsot cant tell its in use becuase its so seamless. Plus, ALS has taken a differnt role now, then it had before. Remember i mentioned turbo technology advancing. Well, anymore turbos, with their twin scrol intake, varible vane wastegate-less turbine inlets, and high efficieny light weight materials, really dont need ALS to keep them spooled. Becuase they spool so quickly, that its almost not noticible. However, ALS now works as a maintainer, simply to keep the turbo spooled, and maintain intake manifold pressure, so that the responce time is quicker. Not so much to prevent lag.
SO there you have it, a little long winded perhaps. But, at least you know you arent getting fed a lineof crap from an anime, or reading outdated information on a website.
First of all, stop watching Initial-D. ITs a freaking cartoon (excuse me fanboys 'anime'), its fake, i.e. not real...so dont think that you are learning somthing from watching it.
Seconedly, Anti-Lag systems are not what they used to be. THis is due greatly tot he fact that turbo technology in the last 5 years has greatly advanced. To the point that Turbo lag is almost a thing of the past.
Lets step back about 20 years to the early 80's where turbos where really moving into the forefront of racing. In Formula-1, Group-C, and Group-B rallying.
In Formula-1, and Group-C, you where alwasy dealing with high engine RPM, and long throttle on situations. The need for fast acting, quick spooling turbos was not a priority. It wasnt untill the mid 80's when Group-B rallying picked up that turbo lag became noticable. This was becuase the turbo systems where no where near as refined as they are today. Becuase back 20 years ago, even though computers deigned and machined the turbos, they didnt have the computer models they do today to rtuely map the turbo and increse its efficiency. And, believe it or not, they had no anti-lag either. So the driver had to adopt their driving style to acomodate the need for imidiate power comnig out of a corner.
Enter left foot braking. By pegging the throttle with your right foot, and braking with your left foot, yor are slowing down the car, while still producing load on the engine, this keeps manifold pressure up, and keeps the turbo spooled. Providing power out of a corner.
Once Group-B died, and the Group-A format was adopted, it was quickly aparent that the Turbo lag problem would be a big one. SPecificly because of the dramatic loss in power, the engines simply could not produce enough power for left foot braking to be praticle.
So, Toyota and Lancia set out to develop systems to overcome this. And antilag was born.
Initially Anti-Lag was VERY simple. Useing a simple retarding of the timing on the distributor, with a vacume advance sylenoid. This would delay the spark of the engine, long into the exaust stroke. With the unburnt fuel dumping intot he exaust manifold, it would ignite upon contact with the glowing turbo housing. At about that same time, the plug would fire, right before the exaust valve closed, ensuring the forse of the blast was directed at turbo's turbine houseing. This is effectively making the car "mis-fire" to keep boost presure up, to allow for imidiate throttle responce.
The good part is, boost was maintained. But the engine was set to thrash about as a fuel pump, and have alot of extra wear.
Toyota finially developed the first computer controlled Anti-Lag system, which involved an electronic ignition system, and electronic injector system to be able to control the spark, and the fuel mixture to the cylinder. This worked very well, and was a standared for a long time.
Untill the French got their hands on it. And thats when Anti-Lag systems went the way of the computer. Beucase with things like Cam Phasing, it was now posible to hold the valves open longer, use direct injection for the fuel, and controled sparking. Which improved the efficiency of the system nearly 10 fold.
Infact, modern day Anti-Lag systems, which are guarded in HIGH secrecy by rally teams, is so advanced, that you almsot cant tell its in use becuase its so seamless. Plus, ALS has taken a differnt role now, then it had before. Remember i mentioned turbo technology advancing. Well, anymore turbos, with their twin scrol intake, varible vane wastegate-less turbine inlets, and high efficieny light weight materials, really dont need ALS to keep them spooled. Becuase they spool so quickly, that its almost not noticible. However, ALS now works as a maintainer, simply to keep the turbo spooled, and maintain intake manifold pressure, so that the responce time is quicker. Not so much to prevent lag.
SO there you have it, a little long winded perhaps. But, at least you know you arent getting fed a lineof crap from an anime, or reading outdated information on a website.
