Young Drivers and Motor Vehicle Accidents

[BigYoSpeck]

Young males being cocky and getting into situations where the lack the skill or experience is the problem. However despite this it does NOT take much for anyone to get into a situation what the cannot get out of.

Men do however IMHO have a better understanding of cars characteristics and handling etc.

I can agree with that, a safer driver doesn't equate better driver. The worlds most successful motor sports competitors will all have had their share of spills.

Of course how appropriate it is to be demonstrating that skill on a public road is another debate entirely.

To be honest I blame women for all car accidents. If it isn't them crashing themselves it's us crashing because it's physically impossible not to stare at them in the summer or because we drive like tools knowing it makes them want our babies.

 

[aarror]

I can agree with that, a safer driver doesn't equate better driver. The worlds most successful motor sports competitors will all have had their share of spills.

Of course how appropriate it is to be demonstrating that skill on a public road is another debate entirely.

To be honest I blame women for all car accidents. If it isn't them crashing themselves it's us crashing because it's physically impossible not to stare at them in the summer or because we drive like tools knowing it makes them want our babies.

Hahaha. On a serious note though, here in Canada young drivers (me!) have to have an Learners permit for a year (next year they're bumping it to 2 years) wjich only allows them to drive with an adult supervisor in the car, and only from 5am to 12pm. Assitionally, only 1 person other than their supervisor is allowed in the car with them. After the L period, young drivers can take a Novice test. If they pass, they can drive without a supervisor, but can only carry one other person, excluding family. They must have this for two years, and only then do they have a full licence. Any infraction (or even warning) during the L or N terms and they must restart whatever term they are on. 3 infractions on your N and you must begin your L all over again.

Despite all this, it only discourages people from driving, and doesn't lower the amounts of accidents involving young people by a significant amount. It's nice to know that they're putting some effort into it, though.

 

[BigYoSpeck]

Hahaha. On a serious note though, here in Canada young drivers (me!) have to have an Learners permit for a year (next year they're bumping it to 2 years) wjich only allows them to drive with an adult supervisor in the car, and only from 5am to 12pm. Assitionally, only 1 person other than their supervisor is allowed in the car with them. After the L period, young drivers can take a Novice test. If they pass, they can drive without a supervisor, but can only carry one other person, excluding family. They must have this for two years, and only then do they have a full licence. Any infraction (or even warning) during the L or N terms and they must restart whatever term they are on. 3 infractions on your N and you must begin your L all over again.

Despite all this, it only discourages people from driving, and doesn't lower the amounts of accidents involving young people by a significant amount. It's nice to know that they're putting some effort into it, though.

You see measures like that just delay the inevitable.

People have vices.

They smoke, they drink, they eat fast food, they gamble, they have sex and all kinds of things that if you apply rational logical thought to it you probably wouldn't do.

Men drive fast. It makes us feel alive, it makes us feel cool and it makes us think we're the kind of guy that women want. When a passenger tells me I've scared them I don't hear them saying they think I'm an idiot and shouldn't be aloud on the road, I hear them saying 'God I want you bad!!'

And you cannot train that out of people. Short of chemically castrating all drivers, or only allowing married men to drive (same thing really) the best they can do is to train us to actually have the skills we think we have in our head.

 

[DG_Silva]

From my personal POV, the main issue is not necessarily male vs female driver, but more an issue of English-born vs immigrant drivers. Now I am definitely not going to turn this into a race row, or anything like that, but I have noticed a marked difference between the quality of drivers in Birmingham and elsewhere in the country, regardless of the roads, whether it be city roads, suburban roads, dual carridgeways, motorways, etc. The main issue seems to be because of the apparent anecdotal lack of quality of driving, which is then transferred to this country when they come over, everyone else has to drive like that in order to progress.

Speaking of progress, that seems to be another issue. When I was learning to drive (all those years ago), my driving instructor told me the most important thing about driving is to 'drive with purpose', ie, drive as if you have somewhere to go, rather than just ambling about as if you are bored.

Going back to why so many young males seem to be involved in accidents, it seems to be linked to the number of people in the car. As the driver is carrying passengers, the need to show off seems to increase, hence more likely to cause accidents. As regarding female drivers, I haven't been in the passenger seat of any female driver other than my mother, and trust me, she isn't going to break any speed records. But I would say there are two main factors in the causes of crashes; 1, the lack of education of car control (the current driving test simply teaches you how to make a car move and stop, nothing more). I would like to see more focus on incident recovery; 2, the state of roads in Britain mean that you are more than likely to be involved in an accident on roads that are substandard, or covered in speed bumps.

 

[BrutherSuperior]

Not sure how it is in other countries, but in the US nearly 2/3 of all fatal crashes are single vehicle accidents. Past that, I have never seen any concrete data splitting up the causes of the remaining 1/3 of accidents.

How many had illegal drugs or alcohol as a factor? What about prescription drugs like anti-depressants, anti-anxiety, ADD, and other mental drugs? How many were wearing seatbelts? Besides crashing, how many other laws were broken leading up to the accident?

More laws do not make you safer.

Kids will be kids and will do stupid things...that's what they do. (been there & done that) New laws will never stop that nor will all the traffic cameras in the world.

In the pursuit of traffic safety, what liberties will people be asked to give up? Will it be illegal to operate a radio? What about being under the influence of allergy medication or even smoking a cigarette?

You cannot have 100% safety. Impossible. Becoming safer has costs...what are people willing pay? That's the question. Young people are an easy target b/c they have no real money, don't own property, and are kinda oblivious to what goes on around them. Try to limit old people from driving? Oh, there will be hell to pay at the ballot-box. Teenagers are low hanging fruit...always have been.

 

[BigYoSpeck]

Will it be illegal to operate a radio?

Pretty sure it already is in the UK.

 

[Joel]

Well, here in Ontario we have a "graduated licensing system". When you turn 16 you take a ridiculously easy test (20 multiple choice and identify road signs), and you get your G-1 license. That means you have to drive with a fully licensed driver with at least 5 years experience at all times, can't drive between midnight and 5AM, and can't drive on any road with a speed limit higher than 80 km/h (no freeways). After a year (8 months with driver's ed), you take a road test and get your G2 license. You can drive alone and at any time, but 0 blood alcohol content. After a year of that you get your G license, and you can have 0.05% BAC if I recall correctly.

The other new law is that anyone under 21 can only have 1 21yrs or under passenger between midnight and 5AM (trying to cut down on groups of drunken friends after parties). This doesn't apply to family members though.


All in all, these laws have probably contributed to Ontario having the lowest accident rate of any jurisdiction in North America (unless my driver's ed program was lying).

It really doesn't change the fact that kids are gonna drink, smoke, and drive too fast to impress girls regardless of the law.

 

[PzR Slim]

I said it seems like that is the case in the UK. I never said it as if it were a fact.



Again, I didn't make an assumption at all. I wrote light heartedly about how it seems on the UK roads in my experience. I never said it was based on fact.



They might do, but I very much doubt it.



Again, the use of the word 'seem' or 'seems' is the key here. I posted about what it seems like, not what it is like.



It annoyed me because you said you were 'willing to bet' that I fall into the category of a bad driver, so you're assuming that I do and backing it up with a certainty so high you'd back a bet on it. That's completely different to describing what something seems like to an individual.



I did say that if you twist my words. But generally people avoid doing that as it appears desperate and ill informed.

Here's my post again, with some highlights:

Seems? That is your defence? Explain how it seems like that when all the evidence suggests otherwise.

Do you now accept that what seemed to be the problem to you is actually incorrect and it is actually young men who are the problem?

Pretty sure it already is in the UK.

Nah, it's not illegal to press or twist something that is securley mounted but it is illegal to operate something that you have to hold in your hand like a phone for example. Or a set of cordless hair straightners, which I have seen a women doing in a traffic jam, women eh!

 

[BigYoSpeck]

Nah, it's not illegal to press or twist something that is securley mounted but it is illegal to operate something that you have to hold in your hand like a phone for example. Or a set of cordless hair straightners, which I have seen a women doing in a traffic jam, women eh!

It was mentioned on Top Gear a few years back about retuning the radio while driving being illegal. I would guess that it falls under undue care and attention so if they either had video evidence or 2 officers statement of you having your eyes off the road operating a radio's controls it would be an offence.

 

[Sureboss]

Surprised people have brought up male/female drivers. Women are better drivers, period. At least in the UK, don't know about other countries.

 

[PzR Slim]

It was mentioned on Top Gear a few years back about retuning the radio while driving being illegal. I would guess that it falls under undue care and attention so if they either had video evidence or 2 officers statement of you having your eyes off the road operating a radio's controls it would be an offence.

Yeah but that would be getting done for undue care and attention not operating your radio. Could get done in exactly the same way for looking out your side window at a crash and ploughing into the back of someone. As long as your operating your radio whilst looking at the road I don't think they can do you. Whereas if you were holding a mobile phone and talking on it you could get done even if your eyes were fixed on the road. I'm sure I read it's all to do with operating something that is not fixed to the vehicle that is the problem. Could the same be said of a cigarette? Now thats a question. I'm sure people have been done in the past for eating a sandwich whilst driving.

 

[Joel]

In my personal experience as far as men/womem drivers, My dad's a better driver than my mom, but the opposite is true for a good 3/4 of my friends. Most of the girls I know at school are quite good, but not with friends in the car because they get spastic and laugh at everything. Guys I know are either relatively calm (farm kids mostly), or they drive too fast to impress girls.


DISCLAIMER: I'm not saying that all men or all women are like this, I'm just giving my 2 cents based on personal experiences.

 

[TomDrum]

This discussion isn't about which sex is the better driver!

We are meant to be thinking of ways we can stop young people offing themselves in a car

 

[BigYoSpeck]

I think the only way we're going to stop young people having accidents is for ASM type systems to evolve to the point that a car can't be crashed.

As long as a car is able to exceed a safe corner entry speed, not leave enough braking distance or collide with another object due to inattention kids will crash cars.

 

[grrlpurple]

In my opinion to two biggest killers of younger drivers are speed and lack of experience.

Younger people generally feel more of a need to rush - it is a fast paced world and the new freedom that owning a car brings makes speed quite hard to resist, particularly when showing off to friends or members of the opposite sex.

Younger drivers do not benefit from the wealth of experience that comes with age - being able to read road situations well in advance of them occurring, always having a plan b, not having to think about car control which becomes second nature with age and experience.

I qualify my opinions based on my previous experience - not personal experience from driving like that myself, sure I made mistakes as a younger driver but I always kept my speed suitable for the conditions and situation. I am talking about my 14 years experience as a paramedic. I have long since lost count of the fatal road accidents I have attended, the drivers that have died in front of my eyes while trapped in their vehicles with no manner of medical intervention being able to help them... My experience points to some key factors, in more experienced older drivers there was usually drink or tiredness involved, in younger drivers it was almost always speed and inexperience.

Any idiot can drive fast - the smart ones know when not to

 

[BigYoSpeck]

Any idiot can drive fast - the smart ones know when not to

The trouble is you only really learn that from falling off the horse so to speak. I was fortunate that my early collisions were fairly low speed and serious injury free and I learned from them how to judge the right speed for a given situation, how to anticipate errors by others which are compounded by my own aggressiveness and how a car feels as it starts to come unstuck.

But you do only learn that from making mistakes yourself and it's mostly luck that your own aren't the fatal statistics.

 

[Crumpet]

I'm 13, my initial dream 3 years ago was to go full throttle down a freeway at 200MPH in an R34 GT-R.

That was very stupid, though I have a miserable life I want to keep it. I do want to be able to go really fast in a car though, I'll try to find a track or something.

 

[BigYoSpeck]

I'm 13, my initial dream 3 years ago was to go full throttle down a freeway at 200MPH in an R34 GT-R.

That was very stupid, though I have a miserable life I want to keep it. I do want to be able to go really fast in a car though, I'll try to find a track or something.

In all honesty unless you are of the minority of sensible males or truly effective measures are brought in some time before you are on the road, you are going to speed. You may even start off not doing so due to the residual effect of being used to driving supervised. But once you start becoming more familiar with the roads and driving, when the realisation comes about that you have to be quite unobservant to even be caught and you experience that first thrill of driving fast you will just become another one of the majority who speed.

I'm in no way advocating this, but the best way to approach it is not denial but to know it's what you are going to do, and at the very least consciously always be aware it should be done with the utmost care.

 

[TomDrum]

In my opinion to two biggest killers of younger drivers are speed and lack of experience.

Younger people generally feel more of a need to rush - it is a fast paced world and the new freedom that owning a car brings makes speed quite hard to resist, particularly when showing off to friends or members of the opposite sex.

Younger drivers do not benefit from the wealth of experience that comes with age - being able to read road situations well in advance of them occurring, always having a plan b, not having to think about car control which becomes second nature with age and experience.

I qualify my opinions based on my previous experience - not personal experience from driving like that myself, sure I made mistakes as a younger driver but I always kept my speed suitable for the conditions and situation. I am talking about my 14 years experience as a paramedic. I have long since lost count of the fatal road accidents I have attended, the drivers that have died in front of my eyes while trapped in their vehicles with no manner of medical intervention being able to help them... My experience points to some key factors, in more experienced older drivers there was usually drink or tiredness involved, in younger drivers it was almost always speed and inexperience.

Any idiot can drive fast - the smart ones know when not to

I agree with some of what you are saying.

I am entering a similar field to you (work at major trauma hospital, Paramedic Student and Volunteer Ambulance Officer with my states emergency ambulance service) and I am about to start my ambulance driver training. Reading through the documents, I notice an interesting point which I hadn't thought of. Our experience can actually be a bad thing. Experience teaches us that every time we go through a green traffic light, other people will stop. Who is to say they will? Yes, 90% of the time that is the case, but people do run red lights. The same deal with going through normal intersections without lights. Who is to say that someone doesn't see the stop sign? Just because it doesn't happen to us all the time doesn't mean it won't happen once. And once can be just enough to kill.

I do agree that experience does teach us some good things, like learning how to judge safe gaps and the speed of other vehicles relative to us etc. Age does usually bring maturity, but there was recently a case where a 70 year old was busted for doing burnouts. I think a lot is dependent on personality too.

 

[BobK]

Experience teaches us that every time we go through a green traffic light, other people will stop. Who is to say they will? Yes, 90% of the time that is the case, but people do run red lights. The same deal with going through normal intersections without lights. Who is to say that someone doesn't see the stop sign? Just because it doesn't happen to us all the time doesn't mean it won't happen once. And once can be just enough to kill.

It's a funny thing, but it was experience taught me that people do indeed sometimes run red lights and/or stop signs. Yes they do it for any number of reasons; sometimes they're in a hurry, sometimes they think they can beat the light, sometimes they're not paying attention (cue rants about txting while driving here), sometimes they just didn't see it.

Another factor why young drivers get in more accidents is because they're still somewhat convinced of their own immortality (it can't happen to me!) which makes them more prone to take risks (even when they're not aware of the fact they're taking a risk).

 

[TomDrum]

It's a funny thing, but it was experience taught me that people do indeed sometimes run red lights and/or stop signs. Yes they do it for any number of reasons; sometimes they're in a hurry, sometimes they think they can beat the light, sometimes they're not paying attention (cue rants about txting while driving here), sometimes they just didn't see it.

Another factor why young drivers get in more accidents is because they're still somewhat convinced of their own immortality (it can't happen to me!) which makes them more prone to take risks (even when they're not aware of the fact they're taking a risk).

That's good experience, but unfortunately not everyone gets that.

I agree, risk taking is something that comes hand in hand with adolescence and that is not only seen in driving behaviour, but in binge drinking, drugs and sex too. Still, there must be a way to lower risk taking activity? This must be a growing phenomenon, otherwise the human race wouldn't have got this far if we all killed ourselves at 17!

 

[Alex.]

18 y/o driver here. Been driving for 15 months without a scrape with another vehicle. (one scrape on a railing because some idiot wanted to drive into me and I had to move) I payed 2k insurance the first year and 1200 the second year. I'm finding it hard to see how people are getting through 2 cars a year and writing them off etc, because of this I have to pay extortionate insurance. Granted I have had a couple of close calls.

 

[sems4arsenal]

Well I am almost 17 (still not old enough for a license )and Already have 2 minor accidents I do think Experience or lack off that caused them.Yes Younger drivers are more volatile to driving Fast as to impress people and to test their skill as well.I don't think no body have ever Not had an accident before ,they do have the ability to slow you down in the future and think about the re actions of Driving reckless and Fast.

 

[Stevisiov]

Younger drivers are always going to be more susceptible to careless and reckless driving, not all of course, it should be remembered. Lack of maturity, lack of concentration, lack of experience and a tendency to show-off to peers - these are all major problems associated with young drivers. Now pushing up the driving age may help reduce two of those factors, but no matter what age you are, some people will always lack concentration, and of course, people will still have to attain experience in the first place, this will always be a problem, not matter what age the driving age is set to.

So you have to ask yourself: If everyone started learning when they are 30, would the lower age limit still be the highest risk category? Probably, but perhaps not to the same extent. Would it be practical to have an age limit that high? No, not really.

I don't really see modifying the age limit as a solution, a tougher and more comprehensive testing system? Perhaps, but I would imagine as soon as people pass their test they will revert to a sloppy driving. I don't really have any good suggestions on how to combat this problem.

 

[BigYoSpeck]

18 y/o driver here. Been driving for 15 months without a scrape with another vehicle. (one scrape on a railing because some idiot wanted to drive into me and I had to move) I payed 2k insurance the first year and 1200 the second year. I'm finding it hard to see how people are getting through 2 cars a year and writing them off etc, because of this I have to pay extortionate insurance. Granted I have had a couple of close calls.

The statistics are quite favourable to drivers who don't have an accident in their first 2 years not ever having one.

I lasted 22 months

Good luck squire.

 

[Alex.]

Driving test is already really difficult as it is. It's gotten even harder since I passed.

 

[ND4SPD]

21 here with a completely clean driving record, no tickets or accidents. That's with having a Police Interceptor, a 5.0 5spd Mustang GT and now a 340hp 6spd Camaro. I don't think age is the deciding factor, it's the maturity of the driver behind the wheel.

 

[MatskiMonk]

It's too easy to stereotype in this discussion, I always objected massively to being branded as a boy racer, just because I was 18 and liked to drive quickly. I've now been driving for 14ish years and have still never had an accident, my first car was a 60hp FWD peugeot, my second was a 184bhp RWD BMW, and it's been BMW ever since. It's all about driving within the limits of your ability, the cars ability, and the conditions of the road..

Testing needs to be more pragmatic,. I jumped from afore mentioned crappy hatch back to large tail happy saloon with triple the horsepower... if you want safer roads you need people to prove they CAN drive the vehicle they drive, and you need to check up on that skill regularly. In the UK, you go from driving a tinpot little corsa, fiesta, mini, clio etc. -- (a toy car) when you learn, to having the legal right to drive a 1001hp Bugatti Veyron with nothing in between...

graduated licenses and re-testing FTW.

 

[CodeRedR51]

The statistics are quite favourable to drivers who don't have an accident in their first 2 years not ever having one.

I lasted 22 months

Good luck squire.

Been driving for 10 1/2 years now(!) and I've only been in one accident, which was the other drivers fault. (rear ended, totaled one of my cars)

Tickets though....

 

[BigYoSpeck]

21 here with a completely clean driving record, no tickets or accidents. That's with having a Police Interceptor, a 5.0 5spd Mustang GT and now a 340hp 6spd Camaro. I don't think age is the deciding factor, it's the maturity of the driver behind the wheel.

Other than the few exceptions that prove the rule such as your self though, age is by and large a coinciding factor with poor judgement and inexperience. Even people such as yourself will always gain experience and improve their judgement of something they do over a period of time but most people don't start off from such a sensible point.

Tickets though....

I've always been of the opinion that if you are observant enough to never be caught, you are justified in the speed you drive so long as it's accident free.

I've been pulled once in 6 years and the only reason I didn't see him is because it was 2:30am and he was travelling the opposite way with headlight's glaring. When he caught up with me he asked did I not see him to which I answered I had seen a car but due to the glare of the headlights hadn't made out the police markings. Saying no in that case would have been admission to undue care and attention if he had wanted to be officious. Luckily the lack of recording equipment or corroborating officer meant I left with a polite warning to cool it and I've gotten pretty good at spotting Vectra shaped headlights now 👍