Your thoughts on "performance SUVs"

[Danoff]

No man. I just wanted add to the discussion, and I didn't want to just say I like them or I don't like them without giving a reason, like so many people have already done, so I gave my reason. I guess I simply don't like jacked up vehicles (except trucks) we didn't need them we I was a kids, why would we need them now?

I didn't need (my parents to have) a sports car when I was kid either. Or a pickup truck for that matter. There's not really a lot of need going on in the car world right now.

 

[PocketZeven]

In a country where parking spaces are relatively small, SUV's are too often parked in 2 spaces. Suv's are rarely used for outdoor driving, so I still do not understand the popularity of these type of vehicles. Except for people who actually do occasionally or regulary drive in offroad conditions.

 

[Danoff]

In a country where parking spaces are relatively small, SUV's are too often parked in 2 spaces. Suv's are rarely used for outdoor driving, so I still do not understand the popularity of these type of vehicles. Except for people who actually do occasionally or regulary drive in offroad conditions.

I almost exclusively drive my cars outdoors. Also:

There's snow in my 10-day forecast (though probably not enough to force me to take something other than my 330i).

 

[Vegard]

If you're looking for performance, why on earth would you buy an SUV? I don't get it.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

If you're looking for performance, why on earth would you buy an SUV? I don't get it.

If you're looking for performance, why on earth would you buy anything other than a dedicated track car?

One of the answers to that question doubles as an answer to yours.

 

[Vegard]

If you're looking for performance, why on earth would you buy anything other than a dedicated track car?

One of the answers to that question doubles as an answer to yours.

It just seems to me that the defining characteristics of a competent SUV and a performance vehicle are sort of mutually exclusive and that the best solution would be two specialized cars.

 

[PocketZeven]

I almost exclusively drive my cars outdoors. Also:

There's snow in my 10-day forecast (though probably not enough to force me to take something other than my 330i).

You drive Porsche and BMW? I somehow didnt expect that.

I am anoyed by people who live in urban regions and still drive performance SUV's. I can understand the appeal if you drive in outdoor cicumstances, but why have one for shopping and work/home daily driving? You are only using a fraction of the car's potential.

 

[Danoff]

You drive Porsche and BMW? I somehow didnt expect that.

I am anoyed by people who live in urban regions and still drive performance SUV's. I can understand the appeal if you drive in outdoor cicumstances, but why have one for shopping and work/home daily driving? You are only using a fraction of the car's potential.

Uh... did you say sports cars or SUVs... sorry I'm just trying to keep track. I've seen 911s at the grocery store.

Imagine this scenario. It's January in Denver. It's cold but it's a clear day, not a cloud in the sky. I'm thinking about taking my sedan to work, but there's a 20% chance of precipitation in the afternoon that could be snow. In Denver that sometimes means a LOT of snow (or none). Now, I have to get my kids from school, getting stuck in the snow on the way home is not an option. Also, I don't want to get my front lip torn off by a 5 inch ice ball at highway speeds.

Fine, I guess I'll take the truck. It's such a pain to park though, and no fun to drive.

Next day, same forecast. Fine I guess I'll take the truck, it's such a pain to park though, and no fun to drive.

Next day, same forecast. Fine I guess I'll take the truck, it's such a pain to park though, and no fun to drive.

And of course there's no snow throughout the whole thing. Might seem specific, but I can tell you that it's a very real scenario for gobs of people. It motivates a lot of people, especially where I live, to buy all wheel drive performance SUVs. The Q5 is popular for example. My neighbor has an X5M. They want to be able to take a vehicle that's more fun and easier to live with to work and not have to worry about getting stuck on the way home.

Edit: Also I do not own a porsche.

 

[Joey D]

Suv's are rarely used for outdoor driving, so I still do not understand the popularity of these type of vehicles. Except for people who actually do occasionally or regulary drive in offroad conditions.

A vast majority of vehicles never see any off-road driving - including dedicate off-roaders like a Jeep Wrangler. Even when they do, it's nothing more than a fire trail that a minivan could tackle. Anyone who does proper off-roading buys something older and that they wouldn't mind completely destroying.

It just seems to me that the defining characteristics of a competent SUV and a performance vehicle are sort of mutually exclusive and that the best solution would be two specialized cars.

That's not cheap or realistic. Why buy two vehicles when you can buy one that does many several things decently well.

I am anoyed by people who live in urban regions and still drive performance SUV's. I can understand the appeal if you drive in outdoor cicumstances, but why have one for shopping and work/home daily driving? You are only using a fraction of the car's potential.

Why have anything other than a boring sedan with 120hp then?

 

[PocketZeven]

Uh... did you say sports cars or SUVs... sorry I'm just trying to keep track. I've seen 911s at the grocery store.

Imagine this scenario. It's January in Denver. It's cold but it's a clear day, not a cloud in the sky. I'm thinking about taking my sedan to work, but there's a 20% chance of precipitation in the afternoon that could be snow. In Denver that sometimes means a LOT of snow (or none). Now, I have to get my kids from school, getting stuck in the snow on the way home is not an option. Also, I don't want to get my front lip torn off by a 5 inch ice ball at highway speeds.

Fine, I guess I'll take the truck. It's such a pain to park though, and no fun to drive.

Next day, same forecast. Fine I guess I'll take the truck, it's such a pain to park though, and no fun to drive.

Next day, same forecast. Fine I guess I'll take the truck, it's such a pain to park though, and no fun to drive.

And of course there's no snow throughout the whole thing. Might seem specific, but I can tell you that it's a very real scenario for gobs of people. It motivates a lot of people, especially where I live, to buy all wheel drive performance SUVs. The Q5 is popular for example. They want to be able to take a vehicle that's more fun and easier to live with to work and not have to worry about getting stuck on the way home.

Edit: Also I do not own a porsche.

I was referring to performance Suv's Like the Porsche Cayenne or Macan in the pic. I thought that was your drive. These are often luxury vehicles driven by rich people who barely drive in outdoor situations.

I had a Crossover (kinda of an SUV) for a few years, because we had a few bad winters and I drive to Germany often where the roads dont get salted in the winter like here. I didnt really enjoy the drive and the winters that followed had barely any snow, so got rid of it while I could.

Why have anything other than a boring sedan with 120hp then?

I was referring to the Offroad capabilities of performance SUV. Some SUV's will never see any offroad capabilities in their lifetime, except maybe a patch of grass once in a while. I can see the appeal in performance cars.

edit: added comment @Joey D

 

[Danoff]

I was referring to performance Suv's Like the Porsche Cayenne or Macan in the pic. I thought that was your drive. These are often luxury vehicles driven by rich people who barely drive in outdoor situations.

I had a Crossover (kinda of an SUV) for a few years, because we had a few bad winters and I drive to Germany often where the roads dont get salted in the winter like here. I didnt really enjoy the drive and the winters that followed had barely any snow, so got rid of it while I could.

Yea... like I said... people want something fun to drive and not have to worry about getting stuck. Lots of rich people commute, I've seen it first hand. Also in Macans and Cayennes. They're quite popular.

 

[Famine]

Suv's are rarely used for outdoor driving, so I still do not understand the popularity of these type of vehicles.

These are often luxury vehicles driven by rich people who barely drive in outdoor situations.

Where are these rich people driving their SUVs then, if not outdoors?

 

[PocketZeven]

Yea... like I said... people want something fun to drive and not have to worry about getting stuck. Lots of rich people commute, I've seen it first hand. Also in Macans and Cayennes. They're quite popular.

I have been seeing a lot of Bentega's and F-pace's lately. I would rather see Continetals and F-types. I dont get the appeal of driving these outside practicality reasons.

Where are these rich people driving their SUVs then, if not outdoors?

I thought it also meant offroad?

 

[Joey D]

I was referring to the Offroad capabilities of performance SUV. Some SUV's will never see any offroad capabilities in their lifetime, except maybe a patch of grass once in a while. I can see the appeal in performance cars.

But many sports cars and performance cars never see anything close to their intended use either. Old guys love to drive Corvettes to and from the golf course.

Also, most SUV's weren't built to go off-road nor were ever intended to be. I'm not sure where this concept came from that states SUV's are off-road vehicles, because they aren't. There are some SUV's that are off-road capable, but I'm guessing that's actually the minority of them. Almost all of them have all-weather capabilities though with a decent tow rating and enough space for a family and their crap.

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

The performance SUVs and Crossovers have an absolute point, the same reason that sport sedans and wagons exist. They're for someone that wants something that's fun to drive while being able to do all of the boring, mudane stuff from life. It should be something I like and I like some of them to a degree (Jeep GC SRT-8 & Range Rover SVR).

At the same time, they FRUSTRATE me for the same reason the minivan frustrates me. They killed off the station wagon (in North America at least), I will never be able to have access to things like an Audi RS4 Avant because of these blasted things (minivans contributed aswell). Oh for sure, I know very well that I'm being a very petty 🤬 for feeling this way, but I can't help myself for now. It's the same reason that now I'll never be able to get a new Ford Focus RS.

 

[Danoff]

I have been seeing a lot of Bentega's and F-pace's lately. I would rather see Continetals and F-types. I dont get the appeal of driving these outside practicality reasons.

That's the appeal... practicality. It's more practical and still fun. Also, I don't know how many rich people you know, but I've met a lot. I just visited the mountain home of some rich people. I don't mean like... uber rich personal jet types, I'd wager more like a net worth between say... 4 and 8 million dollars. Their mountain house is up a dirt road that is no doubt covered is snow for more than half the year. I found myself really really glad I didn't visit them in my sedan, because that thing would have bottomed for sure.

Rich people are often a little older, and less inclined to climb down and across into a low-slung mid-engine'd ferrari and strap on a helmet to go track driving. They want to climb across into a nice leather seat, not have to dodge speed bumps and potholes, be able to get to their mountain resort even if the plow hasn't made it through (or in some cases, where there isn't one), and when they punch it they want the car to get a move on and put a smile on their face.

It's not that hard to picture.

 

[PocketZeven]

That's the appeal... practicality. It's more practical and still fun. Also, I don't know how many rich people you know, but I've met a lot. I just visited the mountain home of some rich people. I don't mean like... uber rich personal jet types, I'd wager more like a net worth between say... 4 and 8 million dollars. Their mountain house is up a dirt road that is no doubt covered is snow for more than half the year. I found myself really really glad I didn't visit them in my sedan, because that thing would have bottomed for sure.

Rich people are often a little older, and less inclined to climb down and across into a low-slung mid-engine'd ferrari and strap on a helmet to go track driving. They want to climb across into a nice leather seat, not have to dodge speed bumps and potholes, be able to get to their mountain resort even if the plow hasn't made it through (or in some cases, where there isn't one), and when they punch it they want the car to get a move on and put a smile on their face.

It's not that hard to picture.

I was referring to rich people in my country. My country has no mountains and is mostly flat and parking spaces can be very narrow especially in Amsterdam, where Ironically you see performance SUV's most often.
I have absolutely nothing against SUV and pickup trucks if you live in the USA. Parking spaces are much larger and roads a lot trickier.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

You are only using a fraction of the car's potential.

That's certainly not an issue — if you can call it that — exclusive to performance SUVs.

 

[TexRex]

I am anoyed by people who live in urban regions and still drive performance SUV's.

Sounds to me like somebody needs to let things go.

Know what annoys me? Things that actually affect me to the point that they're a nuisance.

 

[PocketZeven]

Sounds to me like somebody needs to let things go.

Know what annoys me? Things that actually affect me to the point that they're a nuisance.

Annoyed was a poor choice of words. I just dont understand the choice for one. But there is some nuisance in them taking too much unnecessary parking space.

 

[Vegard]

That's not cheap or realistic. Why buy two vehicles when you can buy one that does many several things decently well.

Perhaps it's different in the US but in Norway I could get a brand new Cayenne E-hybrid and a brand new Cayman/Boxster S for the same money as a brand new Cayenne Turbo. See my point?

 

[homeforsummer]

Or a pickup truck for that matter.

That reminds me of something I was going to post before.

The most fun I've had in any sort of raised vehicle wasn't in an SUV. It was this:

It was, objectively, not a great car (sorry @Joey D!). It's big, heavy, tall, felt slow, had zero steering feel, not a lot of grip, not a lot of brakes, and was quite thirsty.

It was however, even on the road, fun. Its limitations were something to work with and compensate for, which I find fun as a driver, and taking it down a canyon road just north of LA with the tyres howling in protest and the cabin beginning to smell of brakes was hilarious. Off road, as the picture above shows, it was even more fun, and I did stuff with it that would have written off the average performance SUV...

 

[Joey D]

Perhaps it's different in the US but in Norway I could get a brand new Cayenne E-hybrid and a brand new Cayman/Boxster S for the same money as a brand new Cayenne Turbo. See my point?

Not really, owning two vehicles instead of one comes with more expense than just buying it. You now have to insure, register, maintain, and store two vehicles instead of one. So you've now doubled your ownership costs.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

What I really don't like about performance SUVs is that they are such an inefficiently-sized way to waste fuel.

My tiny little first generation RX-7 achieves much lower fuel economy than something like an X6M but in a much smaller and easier to park package.

 

[Tornado]

Two years later and they still suck.

 

[ImmalovemaGTR]

From my point and speaking for the region I live in, SUVs (as sold here in Austria) do not make any sense at all IMO.

Taking the Skoda Kodiaq as an example, many of the are sold with a 1.4 TSI engine, and I think some of them are even FWD, so why would you need such a car? For pulling? Get a bigger engine, I guess. Need the space? A wagon will so the same job with better aerodynamics.
Maybe I am missing on something here...

Regarding performance SUVs - I mean I get the point that the whole car market is definitely not rational and I do understand that some people just like the idea of a big powerful... thing on wheels - but is there really a need for such cars? What makes them so 'cool', especially regarding that there are not few of them.

Again, regarding the region I live in, it always annoys me seeing all those BMW X5 and Mercedes M-classes (maybe not M and AMG, but still big and powerful engines) in the traffic jams here in vienna.
And I don't think that all of them are needed for pulling trailers up a hill or something...

So in conclusion I don't really like them as they are inefficient and make no sense in my eyes, but again, maybe I am missing on something...

 

[TexRex]

Oof.

 

[Tornado]

Not really, owning two vehicles instead of one comes with more expense than just buying it. You now have to insure, register, maintain, and store two vehicles instead of one. So you've now doubled your ownership costs.

This sure sounds like an American trying to say how those things would work in a European country based on how they work in America; particularly one like Sweden that hands out green car incentives, that the Cayenne-E would presumably qualify for, like peanuts at a sports bar.


Whether or not the math would still work out in favor of what Vegard is saying or if two cars is actually a practical comparison in the first place is still open to specific context that certainly doesn't seem worth the time looking up specific requirements of a country I don't live in to suss out, but it's certainly not "you just doubled your ownership costs" in a country that taxes by CO2 output, gives exceptions for road registration of plug in hybrids plus sizeable rebates, and has dramatically higher fuel costs.

 

[Danoff]

Whether or not the math would still work out in favor of what Vegard is saying or if two cars is actually a practical comparison in the first place is still open to specific context that certainly doesn't seem worth the time looking up specific requirements of a country I don't live in, but it's certainly not "you just doubled your ownership costs" in a country that taxes by CO2 output, gives exceptions for road registration of plug in hybrids plus sizeable rebates, and has dramatically higher fuel costs.

It's worse than double, now you need another parking spot. That can cost some serious cash.

 

[homeforsummer]

it's certainly not "you just doubled your ownership costs" in a country that taxes by CO2 output, gives exceptions for road registration of plug in hybrids plus sizeable rebates, and has dramatically higher fuel costs.

That and of course you can actually only drive one car at any given time, so it's not like fuel costs and other wear and tear stuff will stack up at twice the rate.

I mean I own two cars but I've probably done under 500 miles combined in both of them this year...