Your views on cars, modifying, hardparkers and the lot

[Bram Turismo]

Nothing more, nothing less. A good suspension and some decent sized rims usually do the trick for me. The combo makes pretty much anything look good. I'd have my money spent on the engine before doing anything to the exterior. I'd have this money to the engine spent for reliability, and not sheer speed.

 

[Duke]

I like cars tuned to go fast without parts bought from thieves. I don't care for "JDM", the "clean" look, the stock look, ect ect. If it was tuned with the mindset of taking it quicker and more efficiently around a track, chances are I probably like it.

I have pretty much the same views as Perfect Balance... What a surprise

Put me in this camp too, with a big helping of "I hate poseurs" on the side.

Nothing wrong with bits that make your car look better... IF they are bought to make it go better as the first priority.

 

[McLaren]

Nothing more, nothing less. A good suspension and some decent sized rims usually do the trick for me. The combo makes pretty much anything look good. I'd have my money spent on the engine before doing anything to the exterior. I'd have this money to the engine spent for reliability, and not sheer speed.

Bram, got a name for the rims on that Supra? Simple, yet clean. 👍

 

[Joey D]

Nothing wrong with bits that make your car look better... IF they are bought to make it go better as the first priority.

Why? There is nothing wrong with visual stuff on a car. My driving lamps don't make the car any faster and actually probably slow it down due to increased drag. However I like the way they look on my car and they do increase the safety of driving around back country roads at night. Does that mean it's a questionable modification?

Seriously why on earth should you car if someone does a visual mod that doesn't make the car go faster? It doesn't make you a poseur at all. I hate this attitude to be honest.

Oh and if this makes me a poseur in your eyes then that's fine, I'm just curious what I'm posing off of to be exact. I think I've only ever seen one other car that looks close to mine and his was an 08, so if anything he's posing off of me...but I doubt it.

 

[Picc84]

I like modifing cars. I love working on them. I enjoy seeing results and being different. Some people say why would you put that much money into your car, others wish they could have a car like that. Its all in who you are. I love it. I drive a (currently) Stock 94' Acura Integra LS, soon after im done cleaning it up, will recieve an intake and some coilovers to drop it abit, Im not going balls to the wall, within reason, Im in love with clean looking cars...

 

[homeforsummer]

Why? There is nothing wrong with visual stuff on a car. My driving lamps don't make the car any faster and actually probably slow it down due to increased drag. However I like the way they look on my car and they do increase the safety of driving around back country roads at night. Does that mean it's a questionable modification?

Seriously why on earth should you car if someone does a visual mod that doesn't make the car go faster? It doesn't make you a poseur at all. I hate this attitude to be honest.

Agreed on this. I see nothing at all wrong with buying parts to make your car look better. If someone wants to improve the looks of their car, then good on them.

 

[Duke]

Why? There is nothing wrong with visual stuff on a car. My driving lamps don't make the car any faster and actually probably slow it down due to increased drag.

Do they make it easier to see farther when driving at speed at night? Without blinding oncoming drivers?

Then they are making the car go better. No problem.

I'll give you a case in point:

I ran at an autocross event yesterday. A pack of maybe 8 240SXs of varying ages (some S13s and some S14s), driven by mad tyte JDM crewboys showed up.

One or two of the cars were obviously set up well and handled appropriately. The others were set up to look what their owners though was cool - slammed, stretched tires, big dish rims, etc. When I was working the course it was hilarious (or depressing) to see these image-mobiles pogoing around on their cut springs, gouging big scrapes out of their sidewalls every time they got fender rubbing (which was halfway around the course). The handling was either laughable or terrifying, depending on whether the car was pointed at my flag station or not.

Those people took something that could have been decent and ruined its potential in the name of trying to look cool. And they spent a fair amount of money doing it. In other words, they made it look better but drive worse, by far. I've got nothing against things that look better and drive better. But if all you care about is looks, you're going to get the same amount of respect that I give somebody that only cares about how a person looks.

 

[Famine]

There's nothing wrong with sticking attention-seeking bits of tat to your car because you like how they look. It's your car, do what you like with it.

But remember... you won't always get positive attention

 

[a112]

I see it that way,when it drive better,it looks better!
But again,negative offset wheels rules even when they screw up the kingpin inclination

 

[homeforsummer]

There's nothing wrong with sticking attention-seeking bits of tat to your car because you like how they look. It's your car, do what you like with it.

But remember... you won't always get positive attention

A better outlook, for sure, and one that I agree with. I dislike the look of euro hatches with big bodykits and stuff on, and they're cars that are designed for looks. Yet many "hardparked" cars that people comment on around here are designed just for looks too, which I have no problem at all with.

 

[eiriksmil]

One or two of the cars were obviously set up well and handled appropriately. The others were set up to look what their owners though was cool - slammed, stretched tires, big dish rims, etc. When I was working the course it was hilarious (or depressing) to see these image-mobiles pogoing around on their cut springs, gouging big scrapes out of their sidewalls every time they got fender rubbing (which was halfway around the course). The handling was either laughable or terrifying, depending on whether the car was pointed at my flag station or not.

I wasn't there, but I'd imagine they had just as much fun as anyone else, weren't out to get a prize (or whatever you get for auto-x skills) and could cruise back home in style (what some of us think is stylish, anyway). Just a thought..

 

[Joey D]

Those people took something that could have been decent and ruined its potential in the name of trying to look cool. And they spent a fair amount of money doing it. In other words, they made it look better but drive worse, by far. I've got nothing against things that look better and drive better. But if all you care about is looks, you're going to get the same amount of respect that I give somebody that only cares about how a person looks.

Ok here is a case and point, I have bonnet stripes on my car for no other purpose then I think they look good. I plan on doing other things to my car that are look oriented such as adding a front mounted European plate and perhaps a different grill. I have no plans, other then maybe a strut tower bar, to modify the performance of my vehicle. It's already a.) quick enough for me b.) handles well enough for me and c.) it's a fun commuter car, not a racecar. All I do care about is looks with my vehicle, if I cared about performance I wouldn't be driving the non-S version of my car. I want to give it my own style and make the car fit me.

If that's the kind of attitude you have towards people who have the same passion as you with automobiles then I am glad I don't have your respect to be honest.

I wasn't there, but I'd imagine they had just as much fun as anyone else, weren't out to get a prize (or whatever you get for auto-x skills) and could cruise back home in style (what some of us think is stylish, anyway). Just a thought..

I'd agree with this, sure there are people who take auto-x seriously and I think it's great for them to be able to have a hobby which involves cars and driving them in a controlled environment. But hey if you want to have fun and just get to know what your car is capable of then what the hell, let em be, they are in it just like you are...just not as serious about it.

 

[Perfect Balance]

Ok here is a case and point, I have bonnet stripes on my car for no other purpose then I think they look good.

He never said anything about visual modifications that neither reduce or improve the performance of the car.

 

[Bram Turismo]

Bram, got a name for the rims on that Supra? Simple, yet clean. 👍

No, not yet. But they are very popular amongst Supra drivers, so if I do come across the names, I'll make sure to let you know 👍

 

[Duke]

He never said anything about visual modifications that neither reduce or improve the performance of the car.

And there you have it. Give that man an interweb cookie.

Stripes don't INTERFERE with driving the car. Driving lights (if they're done properly) help with driving the car at night. While I personally wouldn't bother, I don't have a problem with a custom grille insert because again, it's not going to make the car drive any worse than it currently does before the modification.

That's the difference I don't think you're getting. I do not think changing the appearance of your car is stupid, although I personally would not spend much time or money doing it.

I think changing the appearance of your car in ways that hurt the performance and driving of it, just because you think it looks cooler, is stupid. Is that an understandable difference?

 

[Famine]

A better outlook, for sure, and one that I agree with.

I'm Admin - and while the boss is currently on holiday, the temporary Honcho - of an entire website built around that exact ethos

 

[Mark T]

So are we saying that it's a bad idea to improve the look of your car if it is going to have negative effects on the performance?

 

[Philly]

I think changing the appearance of your car in ways that hurt the performance and driving of it, just because you think it looks cooler, is stupid. Is that an understandable difference?

Is there an issue with people who build their cars up just to look cool, then? You can go look in the Imports thread, and I would bet that the majority of cars there have all the parts they have to be "cool" and to look cool. And there is nothing wrong with that. Because their interest is making their car look good, not performance, similar to how maybe you would want your car just to be fast, and not really be too concerned with looks. And maybe those guys trying to make their car look cool will load up their engine bays with performance goodies, because that adds to the cool factor. Similarly, people who buy a body kit for their performance-oriented car that doesn't improve performance maybe just want their car to stand out a little more. And that's just combining both worlds.

I can see where there would be a problem with people who set up their car to look cool, and then think it makes it go faster, especially if the goal of the look is to look faster. And anybody who thinks that their low stance due to cut springs and that body kit that might increase downforce makes the car faster is stupid because the springs upset the handling too much and the body kit weighs so much and creates so much drag because their lawnmower engine can't haul it around. Those are the questionable people, not people putting all-show, no go parts on their ride just for the purpose of making it look good.

 

[nk4e]

So are we saying that it's a bad idea to improve the look of your car if it is going to have negative effects on the performance?

I believe that if it can come off while achieving that high performance level you want. Then yes.

 

[Azuremen]

I wasn't there, but I'd imagine they had just as much fun as anyone else, weren't out to get a prize (or whatever you get for auto-x skills) and could cruise back home in style (what some of us think is stylish, anyway). Just a thought..

Aside from the fact that it makes them dangerous on the street if they ever had to do an emergency stop or maneuvers. I've driven a "JDM Tyte" AE86 with cut coil overs, and needless to say, it was down right scary to drive. It bounced over everything, I could feel random tires lock just trying to stop it because of the bounce, and handling was beyond unpredictable. Increased stopping distances and a highly unpredictable nature do not make safe street cars.

My philosophy on a lot of things regarding car mods...

 

[Leonidae]

^ that picture sums it up nicely.

 

[eiriksmil]

Haha, I remember that "build".. Dude did every little mod that had come and gone as a fad the previous year

 

[a112]

I personally prefer using the car like it's meant to be used(track and so),but also like as much to see good "stanced" car.

 

[Duke]

So are we saying that it's a bad idea to improve the look of your car if it is going to have negative effects on the performance?

I'm saying that's my own personal considered opinion. Obviously others are entitled to their own opinions.

Is there an issue with people who build their cars up just to look cool, then? You can go look in the Imports thread, and I would bet that the majority of cars there have all the parts they have to be "cool" and to look cool.

Since (IMO) a car is made to be driven, I personally consider it silly (IMO) to spend a lot of money and effort on all-show-no-go modifications. The car as parking lot ornament or movable throne is just not anything I'm interested in.

I don't really understand hardparking, either, but at least then there is potential performance to back up the look. Though it does seem a bit like saying, "Well, I could go to the track if I wanted to, but I just don't feel like it today." Ummm, OK, sure. But rather than having the best car that I never use, I'd rather have an OK car that I use a lot.

Aside from the fact that it makes them dangerous on the street if they ever had to do an emergency stop or maneuvers. I've driven a "JDM Tyte" AE86 with cut coil overs, and needless to say, it was down right scary to drive. It bounced over everything, I could feel random tires lock just trying to stop it because of the bounce, and handling was beyond unpredictable. Increased stopping distances and a highly unpredictable nature do not make safe street cars.

And another interweb cookie. I drove a JDM/Euro/whatever-style 240SX much like some of the cars that were making fools of themselves on that autocross course. Running over a manhole cover or paving patch at 40 mph was a white-knuckle experience and I got a migraine from the exhaust note. It took 30 seconds to negotiate a simple street entrance transition without grinding the skirt off or dragging the pan. In an emergency situation it would be downright dangerous.

I couldn't imagine living with that thing on a daily basis. It would be like a woman wearing 4" stiletto heels everywhere she went. It might make her legs look good, but it's going to seriously impact her doing anything other than being ornamental. And in an emergency, she's going to break an ankle trying to run in them.

I'd rather look slow and be fast than look fast and be slow. And I'd sure as hell rather not be dead because I'd fubared the handling of my car so badly that I wrecked it when a bad situation came up.

 

[nk4e]

I probably wonder about this for years but never questioned it or really looked into it. ( That or PB or someone else answered it for me in a simple state) What is really bang for your buck? Paying 45 dollars for some Ebay coilovers that look and act like 1 grand street coilovers. But for a title, my friends always tell me " Why get the brand named stuff? Go ebay!" I second on " look slow but go fast " deal.

 

[Keef]

There's quite a lot of engineering that goes into suspension components, especially dampers, and I'm at least one Mechanical Engineering bachelors degree away from understanding it. Trying to balance high-speed damper motions, like hitting bumps on the road, with low-speed motions, like a car diving under braking or leaning in a corner, is a difficult thing for the engineers to deal with, and there are certain brands out there that just flat out do it better than everyone else. Some of these kits can offer stiffer spring rates and better car control while allowing a more comfortable ride than the stock suspension. Not so with no-name Ebay coilovers.

There are ways to actually calculate "bang for the buck", but even choosing the terms to calculate with is a subjective decision. Car magazines have often used a lap time vs. price equation. It all depends on what you're into. If you want to be scraping the ground, it's not worth spending a grand or more on quality coilovers, much less spending multiple thousands on something designed for race cars. In that case the best bang for your buck would involve potential drop vs. price.

 

[Perfect Balance]

Bang for the buck for me is a part that is still good, but still priced well.

Enkei Rpf1s. Good, proven wheels, but cost (currently) just under 200 a wheel.

Fidanza flywheel. Certified to 15,000 rpms, but only 130 bucks. I'll never reach those speeds.

Memory Fab racing seat. The only difference between their FIA seat ($900) and non FIA is that the FIA seat uses a flame retardant material for the outside cover and padding. Yet the seat is made of Carbon Kevlar and costs under $500.

Buddy Club N+ Coilovers. Only 200 bucks or so more expensive than every other cheap Taiwanese re badged crap (K-sport,Megan Racing, D2, F2), except this is a decently performing entry level coilover.

 

[eiriksmil]

Since (IMO) a car is made to be driven, I personally consider it silly (IMO) to spend a lot of money and effort on all-show-no-go modifications. The car as parking lot ornament or movable throne is just not anything I'm interested in.

I'd rather look slow and be fast than look fast and be slow. And I'd sure as hell rather not be dead because I'd fubared the handling of my car so badly that I wrecked it when a bad situation came up.

I'm one of those, I like going fast and having a thrill.. But, for me the feeling is better when you're cruising down the road with people looking at pointing at your car. It doesn't matter how much power I got (none of my cars look powerful though) or how much money I've thrown at the car, it's always a good feeling, you know that little childish grin and excitement I mean, I like to drive fast too, but I'm more for show.

By the way, I see you have made some thoughts around mods that are helping the car and mods that aren't. I just want to hear your views as they're actually thought out.. I'm willing to sacrifice some comfort for stiff coilovers, so that I keep rubbing on the tires to a minimum (never rubbed once last year). It's kinda like making one function of the car worse to make another better. Functional, or dumb?

Oh and fully agree with everything you've said here. Just wanted to explain, the way I see it from the inside, why some of us care less about raw power and wild handling and more about looks.. Oh, and it seems like some of the people here are like "what, you wasting a set of race spec coilovers to just go as low as you can?" Atleast I have the parts there, they are filling my needs, and if I wanna go crazy on tracks I could always wind them up.. Like you said about potential performance Duke.

 

[Philly]

Since (IMO) a car is made to be driven, I personally consider it silly (IMO) to spend a lot of money and effort on all-show-no-go modifications. The car as parking lot ornament or movable throne is just not anything I'm interested in.

I don't really understand hardparking, either, but at least then there is potential performance to back up the look. Though it does seem a bit like saying, "Well, I could go to the track if I wanted to, but I just don't feel like it today." Ummm, OK, sure. But rather than having the best car that I never use, I'd rather have an OK car that I use a lot.

Technically, a car is made to get you from point A to point B. But the reason we're not all driving Toyota Utopia-mobiles is because people want a little more out of what they're driving. For you, it's about performance, and being a better drive. And I do agree with you on that front. I would love to have a car that I know I can reliably modify and take out to the track and whatnot.

However, to some the car is also a status symbol. If it wasn't, there would be no market for Lamborghinis, Bentleys or maybe even Benzes. And I'm kind of also in this camp. The GTI is a car that IMO fits the bill of status symbol at least somewhat. It is fun to drive, don't get me wrong, but if I'm going to modify it, I'm going to be putting on mostly stuff to improve aesthetics. Call me a poser or whatever you like, but that car starts out as a nice car, and I feel it would be pretty sweet as a "hey, check out my ride" car. Although, I must admit that I think that probably mostly because the car would probably blow itself to smitherenes very quickly after doing a few performance mods and taking it to the track.

I know it may sound silly to have your car just as a status symbol, but it is certainly something that people like to do, just as they like them to be able to drive them fast. But when it comes to making a show car, the parts you use are going to be just as important as in track racing. Cut springs will make the car impossible to drive on an autocross track, but they will look just as stupid and unprofessional on a show car.

 

[Perfect Balance]

"what, you wasting a set of race spec coilovers to just go as low as you can?" Atleast I have the parts there..

New suspension? Your old ones weren't.