Chicago requires big-box stores to pay 'living wage'

Zrow · Jul 27, 2006

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/07/26/bigbox.wages.ap/index.html

Ten bucks an hour minimum?! There are so many things wrong with this it's hard to know where to begin.

I'm just (kind of) surprised that pass something like this. It's absurd.

Danoff · Jul 27, 2006

This is very bad for the low-income folks in Chicago. I'd like to see a lawsuit make it to the supreme court to determine whether the local government has violated the US constitution.

Swift · Jul 27, 2006

Wow, man...that's just so stupid. Don't they realize that 2 people making 7$ an hour is better then 1 person making 11$? STupid politicians trying to prop themselves up.

YSSMAN · Jul 28, 2006

Damn liberals...

I wonder what my company (Steve and Barry's) will do about the issue, given the stores we have in the Chicago area. Our state recently voted to raise our minimum wage from $5.15 to $6.95 (starts in October), then on to $7.15 (July '07), and rest at $7.40 (July 2008).

Delirious · Jul 28, 2006

So raising minimum wage could raise unemployment? Is that what Swift was hinting at?

Zrow · Jul 28, 2006

Delirious XVII
So raising minimum wage could raise unemployment? Is that what Swift was hinting at?

Yep, absolutely.

Swift · Jul 28, 2006

Delirious XVII
So raising minimum wage could raise unemployment? Is that what Swift was hinting at?

That's exactly what I'm hinting at. This legislation will NOT stop with just the big names. It will trickle down to the not so big companies and force them to pay living wages in a job designed for 16 year olds.

It's simple math, the more the employer has to pay one person, the less people they can employ.

Zrow · Jul 28, 2006

Swift
It's simple math, the more the employeer has to pay one person, the less people they can employ.

Not to mention having to raise prices. So much for helping the poor.

Crash · Jul 28, 2006

High wages does hurt business. With a high minimum wage, businesses are forced to pay their employees more, and during down times, this can really hurt, especially with some local mom and pop stores that run on a thin profit margin.

I know I didn't explain it very well, and I don't remember exactly, but the local newspaper had a huge article about high minimum wages and the impact on small local stores and large corporations here in Seattle since Washington state has one of the highest minimum wages in the nation. Many business owners complained about the prohibitive cost to do business here.

ledhed · Jul 28, 2006

Delirious XVII
So raising minimum wage could raise unemployment? Is that what Swift was hinting at?

Not only unemployment will be raised..less workers if a retail store must pay more per..but retail prices in poor neighborhoods just went up...instant inflation..most stores will simply just relocate NEAR Chicago...so business will be moved away from those who most need the work...so try NO employment.

This was one of the most boneheaded laws I have ever seen passed by sentinent beings.

Dumb dumb dumb.

Danoff · Jul 28, 2006

ledhed
Dumb dumb dumb.

So dumb that apparently the house has picked up the trail.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/07/28/minimumwage.ap/index.html

FoolKiller · Jul 28, 2006

danoff
So dumb that apparently the house has picked up the trail.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/07/28/minimumwage.ap/index.html

Was that supposed to be an editorial or an actual news report? It read like an editorial.

So, exactly how are we supposed to stop companies from hiring illegal immigrants when we do things like this that just encourage it? They won't be able to afford one legal employee at $7.25 but they will be able to afford two illegals at $4.

Danoff · Jul 28, 2006

FoolKiller
Was that supposed to be an editorial or an actual news report? It read like an editorial.

So, excatly how are we supposed to stop companies from hiring illegal immigrants when we do things like this that just encourage it? They won't be able to afford one legal employee at $7.25 but they will be able to afford two illegals at $4.

Not to mention perfectly legal outsourcing. Where does it say... anywhere... that if you work for someone, you have to get paid enough to support a family of 5?

FoolKiller · Jul 28, 2006

danoff
Not to mention perfectly legal outsourcing. Where does it say... anywhere... that if you work for someone, you have to get paid enough to support a family of 5?

I assume you mean like workers visas and the like since you can't outsource retail overseas. Don't legallly outsourced jobs still have to be paid a minimum wage since the jobs are in the US? I could be wrong, probably am.

Well, no one has to be guaranteed that they can pay for their humongous family and I wish people would quit listing the annual income of a minimum wage earner and act like they are the only person capable of working. If it is a traditional family then there are at least two people capable of earning an income.

Just to kind of help me feel better about all this I was just handed the new vision plan for work. We never had one before and we don't have a union and no one was protesting or anything like that. We just worked hard and the company grew and now we have more money and more benefits. Funny how that works out like that, huh?

Of course my money will be worth less this time next year if Congress gives the minimum wagers a 40% raise. Why don't laws like that ever go my way? That's right, I'm middle class. Congress is too busy hating on the rich and sucking up to the poor to notice my selfish wants.

Danoff · Jul 28, 2006

FoolKiller
I assume you mean like workers visas and the like since you can't outsource retail overseas. Don't legallly outsourced jobs still have to be paid a minimum wage since the jobs are in the US? I could be wrong, probably am.

I mean like creating a subcompany in India to handle all of your tech support, or creating a subcompany in china (or contracting a company in china) to handle all of your manufacturing.

Low wage jobs get moved overseas when low-wage American workers get too expensive.

Swift · Jul 28, 2006

FoolKiller
Well, no one has to be guaranteed that they can pay for their humongous family and I wish people would quit listing the annual income of a minimum wage earner and act like they are the only person capable of working. If it is a traditional family then there are at least two people capable of earning an income.

People are lazy my friend. It's MUCH easier to get the government to raise my salary then it is to educate/train myself to get a better salary.

I can't believe these people think they deserve more money just because the company is successful.

Danoff is exactly correct. All this does is push the jobs for Americans to the illegals and outsourcing. The old adage(from the early 1900's) holds true. But slightly changed. "Why hire an American for a dollar when you can get an illegal for a dime?"

Silverzone · Jul 28, 2006

Actually I think the proposed Federal minimum wage is a bad idea, But I do believe that employers should provide some sort of "Cost Of Living" increase due to rising gas prices. For people like me (I get about $7.30 an hour) that money is hard to come by, and by the looks of it, gas isn't going to get any cheaper.

Danoff · Jul 28, 2006

Silverzone
Actually I think the proposed Federal minimum wage is a bad idea, But I do believe that employers should provide some sort of "Cost Of Living" increase due to rising gas prices.

Why?

FoolKiller · Jul 28, 2006

danoff
I mean like creating a subcompany in India to handle all of your tech support, or creating a subcompany in china (or contracting a company in china) to handle all of your manufacturing.

Low wage jobs get moved overseas when low-wage American workers get too expensive.

OK, I thought you were referring to Wal-Mart in Chicago. I see now that you mean all businesses overall.

I'm supposed to have dinner with my brother tonight and everytime we get together we argue about this. I have a feeling that by the time I get finished I will be hopping up and down on the table. The people who advocate this stuff don't see the full picture, they just see more money going towards people who need it. He couldn't even admit that the companies would lose profit and at a minimum would raise prices to cover that loss. He keeps arguing that no one is losing profit, but the minimum wage workers can support their families now. When I asked him how they can do that without a job or by having to pay more for things, or both he just told me I was acting stupid and just jealous because I wouldn't get an increase with them, and why is it always about me? This went on forever. Circle after circle of him acting like I am just a selfish idiot.

He has an MBA, I would have though that included some economics. Guess not. :indiff:

Silverzone · Jul 28, 2006

danoff
Why?

1. I don't know your income, but working at $5 an hour is a bit rough. (I'm not, but my freinds family is working at minimum wage, and it's extremely rough for them.) Especially if you are supporting a family.
2. The oil companies aren't going to give up their extra profits, so someone has to make sure people can get fuel their vehicles. (How in the hell will people get to work without it, not everywhere has public transportation.)
3. Simply the prices are outrageous, (Yes, I know its worse other places, but the UK is a bit better off than the US wealth wise.) How can you not allow for a little extra cash for people to lead the quality of life that they desire? I know people who work at Wal-Mart and other big box stores, They sure as hell earn it.

Danoff · Jul 28, 2006

Silverzone
1. I don't know your income, but working at $5 an hour is a bit rough. (I'm not, but my freinds family is working at minimum wage, and it's extremely rough for them.) Especially if you are supporting a family.

Then don't start a family until you make more than $5.

2. The oil companies aren't going to give up their extra profits, so someone has to make sure people can get fuel their vehicles. (How in the hell will people get to work without it, not everywhere has public transportation.)

Ride a bike. Carpool. Get a job closer to home. Move closer to work. Cut down on unnecessary trips. Buy a hybrid.

Where do you get the notion that no matter where you live, or what you drive, or whether you want to take public transportationt or carpool you have a right to have your gas money covered by your job?

Another alternative? Go to school, make more money.

3. Simply the prices are outrageous, (Yes, I know its worse other places, but the UK is a bit better off than the US wealth wise.) How can you not allow for a little extra cash for people to lead the quality of life that they desire? I know people who work at Wal-Mart and other big box stores, They sure as hell earn it.

If they earn it, they'll get it. If not, they won't. You earn what you make. That's it. If you don't make more money, you didn't earn it.

Also, who told you you're guaranteed to make enough to "lead the quality of life that [you] desire"?

Silverzone · Jul 28, 2006

danoff
Then don't start a family until you make more than $5.

Ride a bike. Carpool. Get a job closer to home. Move closer to work. Cut down on unnecessary trips. Buy a hybrid.

Where do you get the notion that no matter where you live, or what you drive, or whether you want to take public transportationt or carpool you have a right to have your gas money covered by your job?

Another alternative? Go to school, make more money.

If they earn it, they'll get it. If not, they won't. You earn what you make. That's it. If you don't make more money, you didn't earn it.

Also, who told you you're guaranteed to make enough to "lead the quality of life that [you] desire"?

Then don't start a family until you make more than $5.

Where i live, alot of things such as families are unplanned. Not all people who have unplanned pregnancies are going to give up and run away from it.

Another alternative? Go to school, make more money.

It's not as easy as that. Post High School education costs a lot of money. That is money that not everyone has. Scholorships/grants/loans are not always available either.

you got me on a couple of points, but you really have to understand what its like to live off a minimum wage.

Swift · Jul 28, 2006

Silverzone
you got me on a couple of points, but you really have to understand what its like to live off a minimum wage.

That is a choice people make. Plain and simple. A very few have it thrust upon them, but they are usually the ones that stand up and work for something better.

Danoff · Jul 28, 2006

Silverzone
Where i live, alot of things such as families are unplanned. Not all people who have unplanned pregnancies are going to give up and run away from it.

Families should not be unplanned. If you don't have the money to support a child, then abort it or give it up for adoption. Otherwise find a way to support it. You're not guaranteed by society to be able to afford as many children as you accidentally have.

It's not as easy as that. Post High School education costs a lot of money. That is money that not everyone has. Scholorships/grants/loans are not always available either.

Scholarships/grants/loans are always available but not to all people. I, for example, didn't qualify for many scholarships because my parents made too much money. Low income scholarships are everywhere. Merit based scholarships are everywhere. You might trip over a student loan they're so common.

But yes, education costs money. It would be a good idea to save up and pay for it rather than have 5 children and be stuck. Don't try to tell me you can't work your way through college because I did it. I paid every dime, from living expenses to tuition.

you got me on a couple of points, but you really have to understand what its like to live off a minimum wage.

Minimum wage shouldn't exist. And you shouldn't try to live off of minimum wage. If a minimum wage job were all I could get I'd have at least two. And I'd be studying up to get a better job and an education. Not to mention that minimum wage actually hurts poor people the most - by eliminating jobs and making it more likely for them to make nothing at all.

FoolKiller · Jul 28, 2006

Silverzone
Where i live, alot of things such as families are unplanned. Not all people who have unplanned pregnancies are going to give up and run away from it.

So a company should pay someone more based on what mistakes they made or how big their family is as opposed to how hard they work?

So, if I have a gambling addiction should I get paid more? I have a bigger expense, and I'm addicted so I can't help it.

It's not as easy as that. Post High School education costs a lot of money. That is money that not everyone has. Scholorships/grants/loans are not always available either.

I have never seen anyone not be given a loan of some form, but even then schools will work out payment plans for you. Heck, people will give you money because of your race, or being an unwed mother, or a medical condition, or a million other things. The money is there, you just have to find the right person to give it to you.

you got me on a couple of points, but you really have to understand what its like to live off a minimum wage.

How do you know that he, or any of us, don't?

And by forcing companies to increase their minimum wages you only make things more expensive, which essentially negates your increase. You're right back where you were. The only way out of this is to find a way to make more money that isn't an unexpected expense to the company.

ledhed · Jul 28, 2006

danoff
So dumb that apparently the house has picked up the trail.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/07/28/minimumwage.ap/index.html

proves my point...dumb dumb dumb...and DUMBER .

YSSMAN · Jul 28, 2006

If they would have raised the minimum wage across the state it would have made more sense, but now everything is going to move outward to the suburbs.

...Are the Dems still pushing for an increase with the Federal Minimum Wage?

Sphinx · Jul 28, 2006

I think it's a great idea.

Famine · Jul 28, 2006

Sphinx
I think it's a great idea.

Why?

Sphinx · Jul 28, 2006

Famine
Why?

Because for me, anything that manages to get you lot riled up is a good thing. :bowdown:

I would go further but that would mean going off topic. So I won't.

Chicago requires big-box stores to pay 'living wage'

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