Tuner Garages

Also addressed your LSD concerns in a PVT, but can't hurt to post them here as well.

I chose not to include the FC LSD as doing so, no matter how relaxed the settings, would scrub speed off the car, especially out of corners, where its lower-rev torque deficiencies and HIGH HIGH peak power point were hurting it to begin with. Besides which, unless you REALLY get on it in first gear, there's no wheelspin anywhere short of a dead-stop launch or coming back on from a runoff or hop. The stock Torsen LSD on the S2000, even in real-life, is EXTREMELY capable as its designed to be mated to car that, when driven in anger, will be pulling INSANE revs. I did evaluate the FC unit in testing, but averaged surprisingly slow times compared to going without, where the car willingly pulled high 1'55's after enough practice.

That said, I'm glad you enjoyed the car, and thanks for judging!

AH.. Finally a position I could be proud of! I'm glad to hear that you liked Z-486 SC that much. thanks for the appreciating review, Vander.

Thanks for another judge entry Vander.

*Unenthusiastically* Yay. I came second last, I think that when I entered this competition I was still too new to this kind of thing. The car wasn't developed enough (it is now at Aussie Tuners, see sig) and the car was too powerful and fast for S3 tyres.

Yeah I see a lot of things I could have done better with the 2000GT. (BTW a measured amount of body roll was intentional, otherwise I might have just as well picked a new car. Feels very "period" to me.)

However don't expect it to rest on its' laurels.

Leonidae

AH.. Finally a position I could be proud of! I'm glad to hear that you liked Z-486 SC that much. thanks for the appreciating review, Vander.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the awesome car!

Kent

Thanks for another judge entry Vander.

Click to expand...

It was an incredible learning experience, I'll be around for a while. Thanks for hosting these competions Kent

CirclesCenter

Yeah I see a lot of things I could have done better with the 2000GT. (BTW a measured amount of body roll was intentional, otherwise I might have just as well picked a new car. Feels very "period" to me.)

However don't expect it to rest on its' laurels.

Click to expand...

The body roll was noted on the stock model, in your tune I did not find it to be an issue. I liked your car alot and would love to see it more refined in the classic tuner challenge. The only problem with it was the superb competition that it was up against. The main thing I didn't like was the lask of transmission tuning, which I, personally, feel to be very important to tuner cars.

nd 4 holden spd

*Unenthusiastically* Yay. I came second last, I think that when I entered this competition I was still too new to this kind of thing. The car wasn't developed enough (it is now at Aussie Tuners, see sig) and the car was too powerful and fast for S3 tyres.

Click to expand...

I think you hit that nail on the head, the car simply shouldn't have been entered in an S3 challenge, it has too much power, now in an R tire challenge I'm sure you could work some magic with it, keep on trying.

I'd like to note that due to being so busy this past month I did not get the chance to test as much as I would've liked on all of the entries and my judgements could have been very different if I had the time, as it was I ranked them how I felt they should be.

CLS has informed me that there has only been 2 AWD judges so far, and because of that I am going to test and judge the AWD category tonight and tomorrow, I'd love to get to FF aswell if I have the time, but that category seems well judged at the moment.

If anybody wants to send my PVT about why they did or did not include certain things on their AWD cars before I post my results then I will take those into account.

I also look forward to having quite a bit more time to judge the classic competition and maybe even through in a competitor of my own.

Cheers. James

Might do AWD myself...

Vander

I think you hit that nail on the head, the car simply shouldn't have been entered in an S3 challenge, it has too much power, now in an R tire challenge I'm sure you could work some magic with it, keep on trying.


Cheers. James

Click to expand...

If you want to see magic there is an R tyre version at Aussie Tuners (link in my sig) You should try it, it's got to be in the top 2 or 3 fastest road cars around without going rediculous power or super grippy R5 tyres.

Edit: I know what I'm in for now and what to expect so hopefully I can be more at the pointy end of the field in at least one category of the classics, the others that I'm entering are just for fun.

AWD Judging Results

AWD Judging just finished and I must say, these cars were great, 3 stood out above the rest though.

The track I tested at was Grand Valley Speedway. I first took the stock vehicle and raced it until I felt comfortable with my lap times. Then I let B-spec Bob run it at Steady to see what kind of times he pulled, sort of a control for each car. Next I tuned them up to the required specs and did the same thing again. Now I'm not the best driver by any means so the lap times might be kind of slow, but I did make sure to log at least 2 clean laps where I felt comfortable with the vehicles. I logged about 95 miles total with each of the cars.

Please keep in mind that these are first and foremost my opinions and they are inexplicably tied to my driving style so please do not be offended.

CraftyLandShark KC Motorsport 1985 PEUGEOT 205 TURBO 16
Stock: Lap Times: 2'23.206 B-spec Bob's: 2'23.728
Stock Feel: a good deal of power-oversteer, but other than that a nice base to start tune with. It also had a bit of understeer noticeable under braking
Tuned: Lap Times: 2'02.161 B-Spec Bob's: 2'05.838
Wow again. . .shaved 20 seconds off of my lap time. I detected no understeer this time around, the car felt poised and balanced with the ability to erupt into an angry power-oversteer beast whenever needed. It was obvious that a level of tuning above and beyond acceptable went into this 22 year old car that made it compete with the best of them. A thoroughly enjoyable car and one that I will keep at least until you decide to make it better, if that's possible.
Grade: 97/100

DeltaTrain 03 Honda Odyssey
Stock: 2'41.125 B-Spec:2'42.407
This car felt like what it is, a people carrier and grocery-getter. It handled well and had nice short braking distances though, I was interested to see what would be accomplished here.
Tuned: 2'16.274 B-Spec:2'20.191
25 seconds shaved off not bad. . .it had good braking, but this had nothing to do with the tune as neither racing brakes nor a BBC were purchased. It had nice lift-off oversteer aswell. My main problem with this car was the apparent lack of tuning where you should have had it. You have a large heavy underpowered car, you solved the problem with the under-powered, and yet for 1,100 you could have lightened it by 200kgs. Also you went with a semi-racing suspension as opposed to the full-racing, which I kinda of didn't get. After all with the FC suspension you could have made it act the same but had more delicate control over it. Overall however, it's about tuning and the car turned out fine, it just didn't have what a couple of the other competitors did.
Grade: 79/100

Hemi-Sport 99 Skyline Gt-R
Stock: Lap Times: 2'13.556 B-spec Bob's: 2'15.825
Stock Feel: A nice poised fun car to start a tune with.
Tuned: Lap Times: 2'05.775 B-Spec Bob's: 2'03.443
Not a bad tune overall, lots of power-oversteer, which I like, too bad it was accompanied by snap-oversteer when you tried to correct it. It also took a while to brake though it was within reason. I think this car could use just a little more refinement, try and get rid of the snap oversteer issue. Also you added a wing, but didn't really mess with the downforce numbers at all. Still a very respectable tune though.
Grade: 89/100

Vince427 Bunta's Impreza
Stock: Lap Times: 2'14.097 B-spec Bob's: 2'17.886
Stock Feel: I like the Impreza base car, it's an enjoyable little road/rally machine.
Tuned: Lap Times: 2'09.553 B-Spec Bob's: 2'12.157
I didn't really have any issues with this car other than it just not seeming that fun to me, it went where it was told, stopped when it should have, and accelerated ok, but it just did it didn't seem to have any enthusiasm. I didn't have to spend 10 laps trying to tame it or learn how it drove, it was very easy to drive, and in that respect it is a good tune. However, some of the others had all of that and the joy of fun driving thrown in as well.
Grade: 90/100

Leonidae Mine's GT-R Concept (Skyline GT-R Tokyo concept)
Stock: Lap Times: 2'02.705 B-Spec Bob's: 2'08.032
This has to be one of the most capable completely stock cars that I have driven in the game, it was quicker than almost all the tuned cars that I have tested around GVS and did it with incredible style for a stock machine.
Tuned: Lap Times: 1'55.82 B-Spec Bob's 2'02.014
This tune is so near perfection that it's hard to grasp what exactly it has issues with. Oversteer when you want, none when you don't, an excellent stock transmission(better than most FC'd ones) and a superb display of settings knowledge in achieving the desired result. Great job and a great car.
Grade:95/100

Greycap Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IV GSR '96
Stock: Lap Times: 2'18.081 B-Spec Bob's: 2'19.995
The stock version of this car felt okay, about like the Impreza did in stock tune, a nice capable base to start a tune with.
Tuned: Lap Times: 2'10.960 B-Spec Bob's 2'15.256
You turned a run of the mill Lancer into a hugely fun experience with this little tune. You went pretty modest on the horsepower but you did utilize the tuning of the car to its fullest potential as far as the suspension, transmission, and AYC were concerned. One of the most tail-happy cars I've driven in a long time that I never once spun out in. The 'fun' factor of this car is what made it stand above some of its competitors the most. I'll be keeping this tune for a while.
Grade:96/100


1. CraftyLandShark
2. GreyCap
3. Leonidae
4. Vince427
5. Hemi-Sport
6. Deltatrain

And now for an explanation of why I arranged the top three how I did. You see I liked all three of these cars about the same but for slightly different reasons, so I had to come up with a way to determine which was the better tune.

The first thing I had to do was really compare the tuned cars to the stock cars. This is where CLS's car really started to shine, out of the three: it not only was the oldest, but I shaved the most time off of it. I mean a 22 year old hatch flew around Grand Valley slightly faster than the Stock Gt-R concept. That's saying something. And what it was saying was simply that Leo, as much as I hate to say it, given the perfect final result, is that ultimately this is a tuning challenge, and Greycap and CLS enhanced the over-all fell of their cars from stock much more than you did. Simply because your car was already so good at stock. You took a fully armed fighterjet and gave it more missiles, whereas CLS took a turbo-prop and turned it into a fighter jet.

They were all great cars though I enjoyed being able to test them.

Oh lord the relief from suspense (at least for now) feels GOOD! Once again Vander, thanks for judging! It's far more of a time commitment than you would expect going in, eh?

Grey, I haven't done the math yet, but I think points-wise, I could glance out my window and look pretty much eye-to-eye with you. RJ, no pressure, but if you DO decide to test AWD, you'll probably decide the winner.

GAH, having said that, the suspense is back ...

<edit> Oh GOD... In total points, Grey has 272 for an average score of 90.666 repeating (I knew it... you're not human. You're SATAN! ) and I have 277 for an average score of 92.333 repeating. This is going to kill me. Two more days. Just TWO days. <reaches for a bottle of scotch>

My suspense is gone, *relief*, my CIEN was overkill this time around and now I must wait patiently, maybe meditate a little, before the Classics. Hey Leo, you think I can sit in on one of your classes with Master Stig?

I shall speak about it with Stig-Sensei. Though, I believe that he is bit hesitant about having more than one apprentice at the same time. I have some pretty heavy hitters coming in for the classic showdown, Samurais, Cowboys and maybe some European knights and French murderesses.. But, about this current challenge, I'm pleased with my positioning. I've driven Grey's Evo and I agree with the judge. And yes, I think that the startingpoint I had was bit too good. but just for comparison, I humbly request that you guys try out new settings for the R4 and Frost.{Frost's setup is just divine when applied on 22B, I don't know how it'll work on newer Imprezas}

Oh well, I'll just have to wait for the Australian Stig when they make the Australian Top Gear Series to give me lessons. I'm going to apply to be a host on that show. Fingers crossed.

CraftyLandShark

Grey, I haven't done the math yet, but I think points-wise, I could glance out my window and look pretty much eye-to-eye with you. RJ, no pressure, but if you DO decide to test AWD, you'll probably decide the winner.

Click to expand...

It's close, but not close enough for me to make it with that car and only one judge. I can only compete in the handling, no hope to match the speed of your car as the power difference is so big. I've generally thrown a bit of my chances away with the power disadvantage, both the Evo and the NSX could have handled at least 30 more bhp easily but I didn't want to take any chances of making the handling worse. That plan was a success but it seems to have its downside too.

I'm happy with the results, if I'm less than 2% behind in points with a car that is almost 150 bhp down in power, heavier and has no downforce I can safely say I've done really well. It's just that you did better. 👍

I don't grade on overall performance. I could really care less.

Did I deduct points for cars that weren't given enough of something in FWD? Yes.

Grey, you should be safe.

Also, the 205 only allows 5 gears in its FC gearbox, so it doesn't pull up quite as quickly as it could. I'd have to go back and look at the times, but I wouldn't be surprised to see many cars in the competition making significantly less power pulling lap times as quick or quicker in some places. But ye Gods, is it fun to drive...

Judge: CirclesCenter
Category: Tuner Challenge V2 FF

First: Wow. these cars all changed my perception of what front wheel drive cars could be. Incredible job to each and every entrant, and I mean that quite seriously. I always used to think FF was a joke, you guys collectively changed my mind.

Intro: It's not often that tuners from around the world let you plow their babies around your local race track, so when the chance to do just that and judge them for this "Tuner's Challenge" I jumped at the opportunity before I even knew what I would be driving. I was slotted into the front wheel drive category, and my enthusiasm dropped off markedly, for I expected over-hyped loud piped rice rockets with no class. How wrong I was.

So late on a Saturday morning we converged at the local track, known as "Mid-Field" not very well known, most people have never heard of it but if you happen anywhere near it is truly worth a visit. Clocking in at 2.21 miles with an elevation change of nearly 200 feet, twelve turns and huge straight this gem is nestled at the tip of a valley. The stands generally are generally at least one third full on any given weekend as the small local town has a deep passion for racing. (This is even when there are no scheduled events!) Truly a racer's paradise, and quite happily my home.


1st Place: 95 Points
Vince's mini Cooper RS: 1:26.182

The most remarkable thing happened after a few laps... I realized that one primarily steers this car with the throttle. You simply let off throttle to steer in, maintain constant to stay on a fixed radius and increase throttle to go wider. Well planted, extremely well controlled body motions, making for consistent and exceptionally fast lap times. Anything I could say would just be garnish. Drive it, drive it NOW.

2nd Place: 92 Points
Greycap's Renault Clio Sport 2.0 16V: 1:27.733

Funky little French thing. Gear ratios are very close, making shifting a rapid fire and engaging process, that when combined with the small fighter plane sound of the engine makes this car quite an auditory delight. The suspension demands that you are aware of weight transfer otherwise you'll be flopping all over the track. Ease in, ease out, flow gently and this car will reward you with a driving experience usually saved for larger RWD cars. Lots of personality. Very short gears for a track like Mid-Field however.

3rd Place: 88 Points
Nissantuner's Accord Euro-R: 1:29.406

By far the heaviest car here, and the only one with four doors. However this car was a lot of fun, with handling befitting such a dignified vehicle. You are definitely aware of the weight, but not in a bad way, it's just there. (Only bad if you're not conscious of it!) While slower than the rest of the pack a very well composed front drive sports car that in a pinch could haul the family! (Kids would either be screaming in fear or joy as this thing tore up the road though...)

4th Place: 87 Points
Kent's CIVIC TYPE R: 1:28.742

Fantastic grip, the lap times don't really reflect that however due to the fact that Mid-Field is more than a little power biased. I can see where on a tighter course this would not just be a giant slayer, but heck a demon slayer! Incredible control and poise. I can see where this could eat a S2000's lunch. Only reason for the low placement is that this car just wasn't that much fun and seemed to be lacking character.

5th Place: 80 Points
Delta Train's MINI COOPER-T: 1:28.468

Much more powerful than the other cars here, and very light. Suspension is a gem. The only thing that slowed this car down and honestly made it a bit of a chore was its tendency to spin the inside front tire in a turn. This made low speed, and even some medium speed corners a real hassle. The brakes stopped well, if not outstandingly. I really liked the suspension though, it was planted, and very tough to upset.

Leonidae

I shall speak about it with Stig-Sensei. Though, I believe that he is bit hesitant about having more than one apprentice at the same time. I have some pretty heavy hitters coming in for the classic showdown, Samurais, Cowboys and maybe some European knights and French murderesses.. But, about this current challenge, I'm pleased with my positioning. I've driven Grey's Evo and I agree with the judge. And yes, I think that the startingpoint I had was bit too good. but just for comparison, I humbly request that you guys try out new settings for the R4 and Frost.{Frost's setup is just divine when applied on 22B, I don't know how it'll work on newer Imprezas}

Click to expand...

Oh yes, there will be European Knights, just you wait. Muwahahahaha!

Ok everyone... The test is now over.
I'll be back after working out some numbers.
Any suggestions on the final system used? I'm thinking total point or average score... Something along those lines. We'll see but for now I'm closing down the thread for the sake of keeping things simple. Once I've looked back and gathered everything I will present the information and conclude the second tuner challenge.
Until then,
-

Well, I pulled together these scores... (please PM if errors are found)

FF by CirclesCenter
95- Vince's Cooper
92- Greycap's Clio
88- Nissantuner's Accord
87- Kent's Civic
80- Deltatrain's Cooper

FF by RotaryJunkie
87- Kent's Civic
85- Vince's Cooper
77- Nissantuner's Accord
74- Greycap's Clio
68- Deltatrain's Cooper

FF by Diego
98- Greycap's Clio
94- Kent's Civic
74- Nissantuner's Accord
68- Deltatrain's Cooper
62- Vince's Cooper

FF by CraftyLandShark
95- Kent's Civic
82- Greycap's Clio
78- Vince's Cooper
65- Nissantuner's Accord
54- Deltatrain's Cooper

FF by nd4holdenspeed
83- Kent's Civic
76- Greycap's Clio
75- Vince247's Cooper
68- Nissantuner's Accord
51- Deltatrain's Cooper

4wd by Kent
90- Greycap's Evo
84- CLS's 205
82- Leonidae's GTR Concept
80- Vince247's Impreza
78- Hemisport15's GTR
75- Deltatrain's Odyssey

4WD by nd4holdenspeed
96- CLS's 205
86- Greycap's Evo
83- Hemisport15's GTR
79- Leonidae's GTR Concept
79- Vince247's Impreza
73- Deltatrain's Odyssey

4WD by Vander
97- CLS's 205
96- Greycap's Evo
95- Leonidae's GTR Concept
90- Vince247's Impreza
89- Hemisport's GTR
79- Deltatrain's odyssey

RWD by Vince247
95- CLS's S2000
92- RotaryJunkie's RX8
90- Greycap's NSX-R
85- Leonidae's Z
82- CircleCenter's 2000GT
80- nd4holdenspeed's Cien
70- Kiwiboy's E55
60- Hemisport15's Clio

RWD by Kent
92- CLS's S2000
85- CircleCenter's 2000GT
83- Leonidae's Z
82- RotaryJunkie's RX8
80- Greycap's NSX-R
79- n4hs Cien
77- Hemisport's Clio
69- Kiwiboy's E55

RWD by Vander
97- Leonidae's Z
95- Greycap's NSX-R
94.5- CLS's S2000
92- RotaryJunkie's RX8
90- Hemisport15's Clio
89- CircleCenter's 2000GT
70- nd4holdenspeed's Cien
65- Kiwiboy's E55


The Totals
In the FWD category... (5 Judges)
321- Deltatrain
372- Nissantuner
395- Vince247
422- GreyCap
446- Kent

In the 4WD Category... (3 Judges)
227- Deltatrain
249- Vince247
250- Hemisport15
256- Leonidae
272- GreyCap
277- CraftyLandShark

In the RWD Category... (3 Judges)
204- Kiwiboy
227- Hemisport15
229- nd 4 holden spd
256- CircleCenter
265- Leonidae
265- GreyCap
266- Rotary Junkie
281.5- CraftyLandShark

The Podium Finishers
In FWD...
1st- Kent's Civic
2nd- GreyCap's Clio
3rd- Vince247's Cooper

In 4WD...
1st- CraftyLandShark's 205
2nd- GreyCap's Evolution IV
3rd- Leonidae's GT-R Concept

In RWD...
1st- CraftyLandShark's S2000
2nd- Rotary Junkie's RX8
3rd- Tie! GreyCap's NSX-R and Leonidae's 350Z

FWD Average Score (5 judges)
89.2 Kent
84.4 GreyCap
79.0 Vince247
74.4 NissanTuner
64.2 Deltatrain

4WD Average Score (3 judges)
92.3 CraftyLandShark
90.6 GreyCap
85.3 Leonidae
83.3 Hemisport15
83.0 Vince247
75.6 Deltatrain

RWD Average Score (3 judges)
93.8 CraftyLandShark
88.6 Rotary Junkie
88.3 GreyCap
88.3 Leonidae
85.3 CircleCenter
76.3 nd 4 holden spd
75.6 Hemisport15
68.0 KiwiBoy

Now, please evaluate these findings and point out any errors (use a private message to contact me). Once I am satisified the results are accurate, the Tuner Challenge Version 2 will draw to a conclusion.
Thank you for your help in processing the results. Once this task is complete I will address all of you in a final Tuner Challenge v2 reply.

OK, that concludes the Tuner Challenge v2.
Thanks for participating, this wouldn't have been possible and it certainly wouldn't have been any fun without the participation of everyone who contributed as entrants and judges. Thanks again, I hope you all enjoyed the challenge!

I've highlighted the final results in red in the post above this one.
Good luck to all of you in future challenges, I hope we can do this again sometime (maybe with GT4, definately with GT5!).

Btw, the thread is now back open to all the tuner garage general discussion and tuning. 👍

How did I wangle second?

Wow. Awesome.

Thanks so much Kent, I think I speak for everyone when I say we enjoyed it a lot!

RJ, you built a well-balanced car that snuck under the gates. All the others had quirks that appealed to some and turned others off resulting in a wide spread of scores, but the Rex was solid all around. It's actually the car I've been using to teach my roommate how to play.

Said Rex is going to be getting a redo soon... I know it can become better.

My lancer would of shook things up...

my lightning would have been a strong competitor but my suzuki GSX-R4 would have been even better

well done all those in the podiums! I definitely will be taking part in the next one if there is one.

There is! Check out the GT Vintage Tuner Cup Ideas thread in the Tuner Garages - so far as we know right now, it'll be starting relatively soon, we think in this thread.

oh right! Exclellent i'll definitely check it out m8