Deals on 1080p Displays

i just bought the 50 inch 1080p plasma that consumer reports said was the best flat panel they had ever seen. they were right it is awesome. great picture no matter what kind of signal you send it hd, digital, analog, it always looks great. its a panasonic can't remember what model number but i would recommend it. i paid 2200$ for mine
 
I just bought a 47" Vizio LCD vo47L from Sam's Club for $1373. I can't stop starring at it. I am all set for GT5P (9 more days) . In the mean time, I'm playing GT5P demo. Are any of you guys that have not gone HD planning on going HD because of GT5P??? I did. I told my wife the truth. hehe. So yeah this set isn't top of the line name brand but is good enough for me and good enough for my PS3.
 
No, plasmas are widely regarded to have the deepest blacks and smoothest colors. They are, however, finite-lived, and subject to burn-in.
 
So, as economic incentive money should be raining into my checking account sometime soon I am finally giving serious looks at an HDTV.

Just a couple of questions:

First of all, here is what I am looking for.
1080p
37" or larger
digital optical out
at least 3 HDMI in
at least 2 composite in
at least 2 component in
Around $1,200. I can go over if needed.

If anyone has suggestions fire away.


Anyway, as I am looking I realize that I have no clue what a good contrast ratio is. A year ago I was seeing a lot of sets with 5000:1 and now I am seeing 10000:1 and even 15000:1. Can I see a difference? What is it?

Also, I know that the three S's (Sony, Samsung, Sharp) seem to be popular brands; at least I hear them a lot. But what about LG, Toshiba, Phillips, LG, RCA (do they even make them?)?

As I can't even find 1080p at my local Wal*Mart I am not even concerned about the brands they carry, such as Westinghouse and Olevia.


I already have a 5.1 Dolby Digital home theater setup. That's why I require a digital optical audio out on the TV, so I can use the Dolby Digital.

And will I lose my 5.1 quality if I go HDMI > HDTV > Digital Optical > Home Theater? I'm just curious because my system is all analog composite except for two digital optical ports.


And I know someone will suggest a full 7.1 HDMI home theater setup, but it just isn't in the budget, nor do I have the space for all the speakers.

A couple I am kind of looking at, but not sure if they are good or not, are:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16889005012

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16889253124

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16889102222
Although this one does not list audio outputs, and is smaller than the other two for the same price. Only difference I can clearly see is contrast ratio, and as I do not understand that I have no clue.

And these are far from being decided upon, but just things that catch my eye as I am looking.

And looking at some of these; what is HDCP?
 
HDCP is copy protection which I would think that almost all current TV's support.

As for the contrast ratio, higher is better as it produces deeper blacks, but as far as I'm concerned, I don't see much difference without looking at a 1000:1 sitting next to Pako's 20,000:1. If everything else is the same except for the contrast ratio, get the higher of the two, but I don't think it needs to be a main concern.

Being the resident Vizio fanboi, have you looked into them as an option? The "good" ones are available at Sam's, Costco and Sears. I'm sure in-store prices will vary, but their website lists a 42" at $1100.
 
TB
Being the resident Vizio fanboi, have you looked into them as an option? The "good" ones are available at Sam's, Costco and Sears. I'm sure in-store prices will vary, but their website lists a 42" at $1100.
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I am assuming quality and reliability is good?

I have no qualms paying $20 every few years for a GE VCR, but at these prices I want something that will last a good long while.
 
Personally, I have either purchased or been an influence for four 32" 720P Vizio's and none have had any issues, but the oldest is currently 2 years old as they are still a new company.
 
FoolKiller
First of all, here is what I am looking for.
1080p
37" or larger
digital optical out
at least 3 HDMI in
at least 2 composite in
at least 2 component in
Around $1,200. I can go over if needed.

Anyway, as I am looking I realize that I have no clue what a good contrast ratio is. A year ago I was seeing a lot of sets with 5000:1 and now I am seeing 10000:1 and even 15000:1. Can I see a difference? What is it?
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First of all, in basic terms, contrast ratios are the figurative ratio between a display's maximum brightness and maximum darkness.

Furthermore, contrast ratios are not directly related to "black level" as is most often suggested. For displays that have the capability of a much higher maximum brightness (like LCD) than other displays that do not (like CRT), but because LCD's use a backlight and thus can’t fully turn off luminance to any one pixel that is supposed to be :black", they have a much worse "black level" than CRT... despite having a much better contrast ratio than CRTs in general.

Unfortunately it get's even more complicated when you discover that the specs are pretty much meaningless any way due to the different methods manufacturers are allowed to use to come up with the contrast ratios in their specs.

Rather than go into detail on the various ways contrast ratios are calculated, I would simply recommend any one interested to start by reading the wiki listing for contrast ratios, and if that's not enough detail, I'm sure you can find links on that listing for more detailed sources.

The bottom line is that most contrast ratios as listed in specs are not any where near the actual, and meaningful contrast ratio of those displays when they are properly calibrated for best possible picture quality. This is why you'll often find "adjusted" contrast ratio ratings from some of the better display reviewers who have the necessary equipment to properly calibrate displays and measure their real world contrast ratios.

Sony has been one of the worst when it comes to "exaggerating" the contrast ratios of their displays, but pretty much everyone does, and by quite a large margin.

That said, even if all the manufacturers used the exact same method, preferably on properly calibrated displays and testing for ANSI contrast levels rather than the completely meaningless ON/OFF technique to calculate contrast ratios, even then one must be careful when jumping to the conclusion that just because a display has a higher contrast level it must be better. As in many cases that simply isn't the truth.

I've seen first hand CRT's with ANSI contrast levels of less than 200:1 show far superior black levels than LCDs that claim to have contrast levels of 10,000:1.

In addition, thanks to ever improving video processors and light engine technology, displays can "adjust" the contrast levels in real time (often referred to as dynamic contrast), which if done accurately can improve the black level of a display with poor black levels during particularly dark scenes, and while certainly that's a good thing, the effect though is largely so that manufacturers can publish significantly higher contrast ratios... because they know consumers are largely influenced by how high the contrast level is.

My recommendation is to not read too much into the published specs, but rather your own eyes, or from reliable reviewers who properly calibrate the displays they review, measure for accurate specs, and publish their results.


Also, I know that the three S's (Sony, Samsung, Sharp) seem to be popular brands; at least I hear them a lot. But what about LG, Toshiba, Phillips, LG, RCA (do they even make them?)?

As I can't even find 1080p at my local Wal*Mart I am not even concerned about the brands they carry, such as Westinghouse and Olevia.
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Personally, of the manufacturers you mentioned I would avoid displays from Phillips, RCA, Westinghouse, and Olevia as in general they are not only some of the worst performing displays, but they can also be quite unreliable.

In my experience, displays from Toshiba and LG can vary dramatically from one model to another in terms of performance, and their reliability records are rather mixed.

In terms of value brands, VIZIO is hard to beat... although if you really want to get the biggest bang for the buck, nothing currently beats 1080p RPTVs. For the price, you wont find any other type of display that offers a better image quality and screen size than RPTVs. One down side is that many are in cabinets that are quite deep, although some are no more than a foot deep. The other downside is that if the TV is in a wide room and you have people watching from the outer edges of the room, the image wont be as bright due to the reflective nature of RPTV screens... however, realistically, this is rarely ever an issue except for large public venues.

Among RPTVs, Samsung is currently the leader in terms of performance, price, and reliability.



I already have a 5.1 Dolby Digital home theater setup. That's why I require a digital optical audio out on the TV, so I can use the Dolby Digital.

And will I lose my 5.1 quality if I go HDMI > HDTV > Digital Optical > Home Theater? I'm just curious because my system is all analog composite except for two digital optical ports.
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I'm not entirely sure what you mean, but if your AVR doesn't have an HDMI input, then make the following connections:

Video = PS3 -> HDMI -> TV
Audio = PS3 -> Optical -> Receiver

Then for your PS3's video output settings, select HDMI and the resolution that matches your display's native resolution (not max resolution supported).

Then for your PS3's audio output settings, select Digital Out (Optical), then select all the supported audio output formats that your receiver accepts (like Dolby Digital, DTS, etc). For best quality sound you want to use PCM as that is uncompressed audio.


And looking at some of these; what is HDCP?
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High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection

BTW: If you get a chance to go back through this thread I think you'll find several posts from others as well with some helpful suggestions/info that may help you make an informed decision.

Good luck, and hope you find a display that best meets all your needs. 👍
 
Digital-Nitrate
I'm not entirely sure what you mean, but if your AVR doesn't have an HDMI input, then make the following connections:

Video = PS3 -> HDMI -> TV
Audio = PS3 -> Optical -> Receiver
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Basically, I am asking if I run everything to my TV through HDMI and then run the audio out via fiber to the receiver if I will lose anything compared to a straight PS3 to receiver fiber connection.

It looks like you are saying yes, and that I should continue to run my PS3's audio straight to the receiver.

Out of curiosity, how great is broadcast HD audio? Just wondering if going optical for my TV connection is worth it or not.

Then for your PS3's audio output settings, select Digital Out (Optical), then select all the supported audio output formats that your receiver accepts (like Dolby Digital, DTS, etc). For best quality sound you want to use PCM as that is uncompressed audio.
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I'm doing this now. I switched to optical about two weeks ago. I didn't think I would notice that much of a difference. I was wrong, so very wrong.
 
I will interject and say that zero's and one's are zero's and one's, so going from the TV optical out to your receiver should produce the same as from the PS3 assuming that the TV doesn't do some weird decoding and re-encoding during the process. I would assume it's a pass through. Verify your TV of choice though, some of the TV's I looked at would not pass the Audio of the HDMI inputs to the optical out. It was for the coax or antenna inputs.
 
OK, I am looking at a couple of TVs. I've done my research and everything seems good. I just want to run it by a few of the more expert types to see if I am missing anything.

These will be used for Blu-Ray and PS3 gaming.

42" Vizio LCD VW42LFHDTV10A
0085738000127_500X500.jpg


40" Sony Bravia LCD KDL-40S4100
0002724273815_500X500.jpg


The Sony is about $200 more, but the only real advantage I see to it is an extra HDMI port and a PC input. I doubt I will make use of either.

The rest is hard to tell because the specs don't seem to be using any kind of standard. The picture looks very similar sitting next to each other in a store.

And remember, I'm not overly picky since I am coming from a rear-projection SDTV. My contrats ratio has always been bad. The worst HDTVs all seem better to me.

My only nit to pick is that it works well with my PS3 games, has HDMI in and an optical digital audio out. Judging by specs and what user reviews I ran across both of these seem to fit that bill.


Am I missing anything I need to be aware of here? I am leaning toward the Vizio just because that means we can get a stand for it without breaking the TV budget and can put the stand money into savings.
 
FoolKiller
Am I missing anything I need to be aware of here? I am leaning toward the Vizio just because that means we can get a stand for it without breaking the TV budget and can put the stand money into savings.
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Doesn't sound like you are missing anything. As you say, if you have compared them next to each other, using the same source, and you can't see much of a difference, and one is $200 less then I think you've made a wise decision. 👍
 
BTW: While I'm here, I noticed Costco has a sale on the Sharp AQUOS LC-52D82U 52" 1080p 120Hz LCD for just $1,700 (MSRP is $3,500)...

CostcoDeal-1.jpg


However, as good of a deal as that may seem... after spending a month now thoroughly testing and calibrating the new Vizio VP504 50" 1080p Plasma... which sells for only $1,500 and features arguably one of the best video processors on the market, and comparing it with many other displays that sell for more than twice as much, this is perhaps one of the finest displays I have had the pleasure of seeing. 👍

I still have not had time to organize all the data from our many test sessions, but here are quotes from my previous comments:


Digital-Nitrate
OK. I went on a little electronic spending spree...

DSCN0972.jpg






And yeah... I know, "Mr. Plasma Hater" bought a plasma?!?!? :eek:

I have a very good reason, and will explain later in the Electronics & Home Theater area. :)
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Digital-Nitrate
ROAD_DOGG33J
Off-topic, but did you ever explain why you bought a plasma? I remember you said you would write something up.
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I was going to write something up... but I have to admit, I was so taken in by the exceptional quality of the VP504, that I have been busy hosting a marathon session of video shoot-outs at my home with some of my fellow HT enthusiasts... and they are still going on as we speak. :)

As a brief preview of my eventual review, the reason I decided to get this plasma... despite my well known dislike for the vast vast vast majority of plasmas first started back in January where there was a lot of buzz about this TV, and the goal of Vizio to take on the higher-end display market with a new 50" and 60" PDP display that was going to have the latest PDP panel technology and arguably the best video processor found in a consumer display. At the show, Vizio announced these new displays would be ready for release sometime in June... and so I waited to see just how the final product turned out.

Last month the first model (VP504) from Vizio showed up at my local Costco, and despite the less than ideal warehouse environment, right out of the box, the picture was truly remarkable!

Having gotten permission from the general manager, I connected my PS3 to the show model via HDMI, and ran several of the tests on Silicon Optics' Blu-ray HD HQV Benchmark disc - all of which the VP504 passed with flying colors.

I then popped in the Blu-ray edition of Digital Video Essentials, and made some minor calibration adjustments. Obviously I was unable to do any grayscale calibrations, but from what I could tell, it wasn't that far off for most of the IRE levels.

Finally, I then played a few clips from some Blu-ray films, as well as standard DVDs, and 1080p and 720p videos downloaded off the PSN store.

By the time I was done I had created a large crowd around me... and we all agreed... it was a freakin' amazing TV... especially when one considered the fact that it was selling for less than half the price of the top of the line Panasonic and Pioneer... but clearly performed at their same level.

I should have asked the Manager for a commission, as I think at least six or more people in the crowd around me proceeded to grab one up for themselves.

Now what was interesting on my part is that I really wasn't in the market for a new TV. I already have a dedicated home theater with a 1080p front projector, as well as a decent 1080p LCD for the bedroom, and a very nice 720p DLP RPTV in the family room.... but I'll be the first to admit it... the picture was amazing, and sooo much better than most plasmas out there that I ended up grabbing one myself.

Needless to say, as I pulled into the garage with a huge box in the back of the SUV... my wife took one look at me and smiled and then said, "Gee, why am I not surprised?" :D

*Thankfully she is pretty used to all the AV gear by now. :)

Since then, word spread, and so I have had a steady flow of friends and neighbors coming by to see me run it through it's paces.

One thing led to another, and pretty soon we had half a dozen displays being set-up in our home as more and more wanted to see how their TVs compared... which led to several of my friends and neighbors making a trip to Costco to buy one for themselves. :)

Then this got us all to thinking, with multiple VP504s, multiple PS3s, and multiple SA 8300HD DVRs, we can do some really extensive and scientifically accurate blind testing of all sorts of different things, like comparing video codecs, 1080p vs upscaled 720p, HDMI vs component, Satellite HD vs Cable HD vs VOD HD vs OTA HD, Blu-rays, DVDs, etc, etc, etc... and that’s just some of the video testing… we are also messing around with some audio tests as well, especially comparing various audio codec… so the AV marathon continues! :D

However, if it continues too much longer, my wife is going to stop being so understanding. :nervous:
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Digital-Nitrate
Eric.
I feel special. The AQUOS accepts 1080p flawlessly over component from the Xbox 360 (something that few people believe is possible).
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👍

I too have a display that accepts a 1080p signal via component:

DSCN1227.jpg


However these are both rare exceptions, and the unfortunately reality (at least for those with X360's with no HDMI and 1080p TVs) is that the vast majority of 1080p displays can not except a 1080p signal via component, and many have poor deinterlacers, thus why many owners of those displays when feeding a 1080i signal to their TV find it doesn't look any better, and sometimes worse than a 720p signal.

In fact, the first couple generations of AQUOS 1080p displays from Sharp also could not accept a 1080p signal via component, and that feature was limited to only the very best video processors.

Even today, 1080p via component is still generally limited to only the higher end displays featuring the latest video processors.

However, as were are dealing with digital data, ideally you don't want to use analog component any way, so for those with displays with HDMI and DVI, unless they have to use component and the signal is from a native 1080p source, there should be no reason to fret over whether or not it accepts a 1080p signal via component.
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BTW: One quick note. As a testament to just how good the video processor is in this new Vizio, we set up two Vizio VP504's side by side and connected identical 60GB PS3s to each one with identical HDMI cables (just to be absolutely sure of the accuracy of the tests) and with the exact same 720p video on both PS3s, but with one PS3 set to use it's video processor to upscale the signal to 1080p and send that 1080p upconverted signal to one of the TVs, and the other was set to output a 720p signal, thus bypassing the PS3s processor and instead let the video processor in the Vizio do all the upscaling.

We then set up a blind test session (not blind when viewing of course) :D and everyone immeadiatly picked out the one where the Vizio was doing the processing as the better of the two pictures.

We did the same thing when comparing each of the two Vizios, with one being fed a 1080i signal and the other a 1080p signal, and they were absolutely identical... thus proving that the deinterlacer in the video processor was absolutely top notch. 👍

In fact, when we did blind tests comparing 1080p via a cheap $5 PS component cable bought off eBay and 1080p via HDMI and there was no difference at all, which again is a result of the high performance of the video processor in the Vizio VP504. 👍


Here is a shot I just took today for an unrelated issue regaring the PS3's visual player, but it captures the excellent off-axis image quality:

DSCN1921.jpg
 
Just a heads-up to would be plasma shoppers... both Pioneer and Vizio are calling it quits in terms of plasmas, thus you may very well see some killer deals on their plasma models as stores begin to closeout stock.

Don't let the fact that they are ending plasma production put you off. The Pioneer Elite and top end Vizio PDP displays are simply magnificent and very reliable. The reality though is that plasma displays cost significantly more to manufacture than LCD, thus despite their superior performance, they simply can't compete price wise and thus turn a profit making plasmas any longer.

Now for Pioneer that means they are also getting out of the display market entirely, however, Vizio who just surpassed Sony as the 2nd biggest supplier of flat panel displays in North America, will continue to make and sell LCD displays, as there is still profits to be made in that market.

This means of the major display manufacturers, only Panasonic, LG, and Samsung will currently continue to make and sell plasma TVs.

That said, I would still very much highly recommend the Pioneer Elite/Kuro and Vizio VP504 & VP505 models - and as they are all coming to an end... you may be able to find these at a killer deal assuming display aficionados do not snag them all up before it's too late.
 
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Some good info there:tup:👍

Analog-Nitrate
however, Vizio just surpassed Sony as the 2nd biggest supplier of flat panel displays in North America
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:eek: I had no idea...

Some questions:

  • Burn-in: Is burn-in and image retention still an issue with plasma's? I would be using it 98% for games, 2% for movies. Don't intend to watch TV on it at all. I know you shouldn't leave stationary images on for extended amounts of time (how long?) like PS3's XMB, download windows etc, but if it is still an issue, HUD's in games worry me the most.
  • Failure Rates: Do plasma TV's have higher failure rates than LCD's and DLP TV's? I remember that they were unnacceptable high maintanance
  • 120hz? I looked this up on Google, but found extremely conflicting results. Are 120hz capable TV's worth it? And more importantly (for me) how do they affect games?
  • Marketing gimmicks? Is "Dynamic Contrast Ratio" an important technical spec, or is it just a marketing gimmick? Numbers like 1000000:1 ratio seems a little... :odd:
  • Calibration: Should I buy a dedicated screen calibration DVD (or Blu-Ray if they have them) or can I just use one that's included on some DVD's, such as the Pirates or Star Wars trilogy? Are dedicated ones more thorough?
  • Onboard sound: If I do get a nice TV, I probably won't be able to buy a decent (<$200) audio setup for a while. Some TV's claim that have "onboard surround sound" (WTF?) so is that just the TV guessing where your walls are?

Thanks in advance guys. :)
 
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ceiling_fan
Some questions:
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I'll try and answer them, but frankly, most are far more complicated issues that can't be answered easily as there are distinct differences between one plasma model and another just as there are differences between one LCD model and another. In other words, while there are typical differences between display technologies, there can be even bigger differences between models using the same technology.. thus making the issue more complicated then just discussing the difference between display technology.

  • Burn-in: Is burn-in and image retention still an issue with plasma's? I would be using it 98% for games, 2% for movies. Don't intend to watch TV on it at all. I know you shouldn't leave stationary images on for extended amounts of time (how long?) like PS3's XMB, download windows etc, but if it is still an issue, HUD's in games worry me the most.
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Permanent image retention is always going to be an issue with displays that use phosors like CRT and PDP displays. However, unless you keep your TV on for several hours at a time displaying the exact same static (non moving) image, then in regards to the most recent plasma models you really should not be terribly concerned. Yes, it's an issue, and it's something to keep in mind, but it is not nearly as bad as it was say ten years ago thanks to new substrate designs.


  • Failure Rates: Do plasma TV's have higher failure rates than LCD's and DLP TV's? I remember that they were unnacceptable high maintanance
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No, not at all. In fact some would say better than both, and certainly much better than RPTVs, which is what all DLP TVs are as it is a projection light engine, thus it currently can't be made into a flat panel TV.

This is really more of a model specific issue and not a technology issue as far as comparing PDP with LCD. In fact both LCD and PDP displays have typically had the lowest repair rates of any type of display... about 3%.


  • 120hz? I looked this up on Google, but found extremely conflicting results. Are 120hz capable TV's worth it? And more importantly (for me) how do they affect games?
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The jury is still out on that, and in fact some manufacturers are already developing 240Hz LCD and DLP displays, and some DLP manufacturers are even coming out with laser light engines.

That said, motion blur as seen on displays is a very complex issue that can some from any number of different things, and not just how quickly a display can refresh it's pixels. In fact, Wikipedia actually has a pretty good article on this issue, and so rather than try and go into deeper detail, I would suggest you first check it out, and if you have more specific questions about it I'll be happy to try and answer them.

Bottom line though, is that unlike LCP and DLP, PDP displays can turn off each pixel instantly and so there is never going to be a pixel refresh rate issue with any plasma TV. 👍


  • Marketing gimmicks? Is "Dynamic Contrast Ratio" an important technical spec, or is it just a marketing gimmick? Numbers like 1000000:1 ratio seems a little... :odd:
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The answer is both. It is a relevant spec, and it is a gimmick as well. Native contrast ratio, especially ANSI checker board contrast ratios, unlike the On/Off contrast ratio figures most display manufacturers use, are the best indicator on how wide the contrast range is on a set, but dynamic contrast is helpful as well, as it is a way that the display will continually adjust the contrast levels during playback to ideally give you the best picture possible on that set for those specific images... However, not all displays do it well.


  • Calibration: Should I buy a dedicated screen calibration DVD (or Blu-Ray if they have them) or can I just use one that's included on some DVD's, such as the Pirates or Star Wars trilogy? Are dedicated ones more thorough?
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Yes, I highly recommend many of the DVD, HD DVD, and Blu-ray calibration discs. Digital Video Essentials as well as AVIA II are both excellent choices. Also, Silicon Optics now sells their HQV Benchmark Test on both DVD and Blu-ray. It isn't designed for calibration, but it is superb at checking the performance of your display's video processor as well as your player's video processor, and can help identify any problems that might exist.


  • Onboard sound: If I do get a nice TV, I probably won't be able to buy a decent (<$200) audio setup for a while. Some TV's claim that have "onboard surround sound" (WTF?) so is that just the TV guessing where your walls are?
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Basically speaking yes. It is similar to single box speakers that do "surround sound". The way they do that is that they have multiple speakers that are positioned and timed to send out sound waves that ideally will trick you into thinking that some of the sound is coming from behind you. Needless it rarely is very effective, and largely depends on your room.
 
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Digital-Nitrate
Basically speaking yes. It is similar to single box speakers that do "surround sound". The way they do that is that they have multiple speakers that are positioned and timed to send out sound waves that ideally will trick you into thinking that some of the sound is coming from behind you. Needless it rarely is very effective, and largely depends on your room.
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I will throw this in: I have seen this done well once and that was a PC with the speakers that came with it. The moment I switched out speakers it was not as effective.

Even when it was working well it couldn't stand up to actual surround sound. The simulated effect was nice until I had the real thing to compare it to. At that time 5.1 surround sound was a rarity in my friends and family and so I didn't have much to compare it to. With 5.1, and even 7.1, surround sound systems becoming relatively common a simulated system may never seem right as you are more likely to visit a proper setup at a friend's house on a regular basis.

I imagine the same system that I thought did it well nearly ten years ago will just seem to be a gimmick today.
 
ceiling_fan
I wished I lived in New Jersey :P Double post but it's worth it.

Samsung HL61A750 61-Inch 1080p LED Powered DLP HDTV
MSRP -- $1900 (which, at least to my untrained eyes seems like a good price as it is)
Amazon -- $1388 w/free shipping
Electronics-Expo.com $1180.64 (pickup available, too bad the store is in NJ only, $180 shipping to California :grumpy:)

$718.36 (38%) off of retail doesn't seem too bad...
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Not only is it a great price... but it's also a fantastic display... and I believe, unlike current LCD and PDP displays, it is also capable of doing 3D without the need for red/blue stereoscopic glasses. 👍
 
According to the manufacturer website, indeed. 👍

I really want it :dopey:

It's pretty dissapointing that the screen in 60.9" instead of the advertised 61" 👎
 
Okay, a few days ago the price of the aforementioned TV went up by $80. Should I wait until it drops again? Why would the price go up?
 

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