So this image, referencing 9/11, offended some people.

Casio

I hope Xzibit doesn't register on this site and see the picture thread, he'd be offended and the thread would lose half its post count.

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Don't be so silly, Xzibit would go for a Need for Speed forum where he can atleast PIMP cars in a reasonable way. Gran Turismo will never satisfy his pimping needs.

Jordan

I have made it very clear to the moderation staff that I personally consider images of 'death' extremely offensive, and I do not want them on my website. It's one of the most disrespectful things that can be done to a deceased person and their family, and to see this one used in an attempt at a joke is disturbing. Pupik enforced my rules as I want them to be enforced and clearly understands my opinion - that's why he is a moderator.

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The thing is, there have been posts where people clearly have been hurt or died, such as jokes on the Titanic.

Jordan

I am the only person on GTPlanet who has to be offended by something in order for it to be removed.

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I fully understand that this is your forum, and that you can do whatever you want. You won't catch me prattling on about freedom of speech on a privately owned message board.

FoolKiller

I believe I said it wasn't cool joke material. What is there to find funny about 9-11? People got killed. I also don't make jokes about the Holocaust or Pearl Harbor (the event, not the movie).

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Hey guys, it must just be some bombers coming in on the radar, lets not worry about it.... OH SNAP THE JAPANESE. You can make a joke about anything and everything, and have it be funny. What you personally make jokes about doesn't relate to what the rest of do or don't find amusing.

FoolKiller

In general I do not think it is cool to make light of any real person's death, because it is tasteless. In fact, I believe I have made similar comments about many of the not-so-funny pictures in the Funny Picture thread that have to do with a real person dying.

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And I do find death funny. Maybe it has to do with the fact that I have no living parents and a single grand parent it that point. I am pretty sure most dead people, being people, would rather you laugh than get teary eyed. But that is just my thought on the matter.

FoolKiller

If someone makes fun of your mom's death I am sure the moderating staff will be happy to put that person in their place.

You had a point with the fat and cultural jokes, but the anime and GM thing are stretching it a bit.

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How is the GM thing stretching it? People are going to lose jobs when GM goes under. How is that funny? Oh wait, it is because GM spent the last 40 years getting themselves into this. But tell that to those people that will be jobless after years of hard work.

People make jokes about "otaku" and Anime related stuff all the time, usually based on terrible misinformation. I assure you I could find people in the anime community that would be offended.

FoolKiller

It occurs to me that every time moderation due to offensiveness comes up this same debate happens. It happened when people were using a possibly offensive word to shorten Japanese when GT5 came out.

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Oh, yes, that amusing debacle. I think I'll start using "Nippo" instead of Japanese, and see where that goes.

FoolKiller

So, can I make jokes at people who died at Hiroshima and brush of any offense caused by it just because the offended party is Japanese? What about the Holocaust and Jewish people? Just because it only offends the affected group it doesn't suddenly become cool to make fun of.

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I don't think anyone said that either. I have seen people post stuff making fun of Hitler (a very offensive subject to Germans, in general), the Heidenburg, and other usually touchy subjects. The big reason this thread got started is because the image seemed to be remove just because of the 9/11 aspect, not death.

Most jokes that will actually get an adult to laugh make fun of some other group. So you have a victim. And people in the victimized group will generally take some offense if they are the serious types. Americans tend to take the 9/11 thing very seriously, because they are Americans and thus the most important people in the world.


And if people are unhappy with how this site is run they could just stop participating. Just as anyone that found that image offensive would have had the same option if it had been left up.

FoolKiller

I believe the tripe comment was more at your completely off-topic attempt to tie this in to a veiled insult at the moderating staff.

You took what is an opinion forums discussion on the offensiveness of a specific image and attempted to turn it into a full on attack of the mod team in general, which is something that should be addressed with Jordan directly. We get a "Waaah!!! the mods are meanies" thread every so often and they all end one of two ways, the OP goes overboard and gets themselves banned or they are specifically told that moderation issues need to be directed to Jordan.

Considering that I would say your sudden general attack on the mods was not thought out or done in the appropriate manner.

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Good job reading into things, Sherlock. If I wanted to attack the mods, I would have. I wanted to see what the opinion of the forum was on this topic, thus the creation of this thread in the Opinions area, and the following discussion that has developed.

The attack on the moderation has been done more so by the rather half-assed attempt to defend the removal while trying not to make it sound like "well, I was offended by a 9/11 joke." I haven't even made a post since the first page of this thread, the way this has developed was decided by other members posting, so go insinuate what you will about them.

FoolKiller

I thought this would be a discussion on whether 9-11 was something to be held above jokes, but instead it appears to be just another attempt to complain about moderation.

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Actually, it is. And I put that topic out there in the first bit of my initial post. You can go look if you'd like, and see what I wrote. This whole thread came about because Pupik was not going to allow an off-topic discussion on 9/11 in the Funny Pic thread, which makes perfect sense. So I complied with his request that was sent in a PM to me.

FoolKiller

How many pics have you had removed? It is amazing how many other people manage to post without getting them removed.

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If I didn't know you better, I would call this a trolling attempt. I generally like what Zoxxy posts up far more than a lot of the rubbish I find in that thread.

Duke

I have only skimmed this thread after being occupied elsewhere for a day or two.

HOWEVER, I feel compelled to say that the image was not removed because it directly relates to 9/11. It is NOT true that non-Americans are forbidden to comment about 9/11 here.

If a similar image had been posted relating to the English or Spanish bombings, or making fun of the recent terrorist attacks in India, or any other victimized country, it still would have been removed.

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From what I initially read in the Funny Pic thread, the objections appeared to be about 9/11 more than any other element. Jordan has thus clarified that it had to do with someone dying, which is a fairly understandable reason.

9/11 is not a recent happening though. It is going on some 8 years old, or nearly a decade. Making fun of an attack that is a few months old is a bit too soon, but this is in the past. It is now part of history, being taught in schools to people that can recall waking up that terrible day and looking at the news in disbelief at what they saw.

Azuremen

It is now part of history, being taught in schools to people that can recall waking up that terrible day and looking at the news in disbelief at what they saw.

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If they can recall their feelings, and that the majority of these people remember the incident and being in shock when it happened, isn't it more likely that it's going to offend numerous people?

Azuremen

9/11 is not a recent happening though. It is going on some 8 years old, or nearly a decade. Making fun of an attack that is a few months old is a bit too soon, but this is in the past.

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Would you post a picture about the Madrid bombing? Or the Bali bombing? The London bombing? They are all much more than a few months old.

The point is, you're obviously going to offend some people here on a family-friendly forum. It's obviously going to be removed. Don't post it. Or at the very least, ask one of us first.

I dont get why so many people over react to 9/11. I understand if the families of victims and those who were there would find it inappropriate and offensive as it was a life changing moment for them.
On the day of 9/11 2001 my dad was flying, he started his trip in New Yorks JFK on the 9nth and was supposed to come back on the 11th. This means he would have to go through new york and possibly take one of those flights. When I found out about 9/11 all of this went through my mind in milliseconds, my mom was also pregnant at the time with my first brother (which was born on the friday of that week and died on the sunday.) After freaking out all day long I get home and rush to the TV, only to find the power is out. My mom isn't taking it as bad because she knew where my dad was going that day. My dad was in Baltimore. He told me when he landed they grounded all flights and he went to the airport bar and saw it on the news. The pilot for the trip told him to get a hotel room because he was going to be there for a while.
2 of my moms friends were doing their 4 years after med school in hospitals on Manhattan, I've heard stories from them about how frantic it was in the hospitals and 3 of my dads friends saw it all from La Guardia intl airport and have told me what they saw and I could still see the shock on their faces.

And you know what? I laughed at that picture the most than any other in that page.

Jimmy Enslashay

Would you post a picture about the Madrid bombing? Or the Bali bombing? The London bombing?

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If it was funny, yes.

Death should not be a taboo subject.

I don't know man, I find that picture kinda sick and disturbing. I'm not saying I don't see the humor in the actual joke from that picture, but taking a step back, it just gives me a weird feeling. Like I'm forgetting that that completely innocent guy in the picture was basically forced to jump to his death out of a skyscraper building in the middle of NYC, only 8 years ago.

Let's just say it doesn't make me feel like a great person laughing at it.

I think we’re all barking up the wrong tree here – actually, more like the wrong branch, but on the same tree. Rather than offensiveness, I think we need to concentrate on taste and tone.

Part of what Jordan has done in establishing his rules and staff is set a vision for the general taste and tone of this forum to maintain a certain type and level of conversation. For example, there’s a common misconception that the swear filter is there for the sake of children and not offending prudes; rather, the swear filter is there to force posting in such a way that will more likely lead to good, constructive conversation (witness the posting quality on just about any forum without a swear filter and mostly dominated by teenage males). Offensiveness has nothing to do with it – it’s all about keeping the taste and tone at such a level that we think will promote the best discussions.

Now, keeping that salient point in mind, it should become really obvious why we would like to actively discourage jokes about huge tragedies, particularly when such jokes can provoke such strongly negative reactions from others.

If none of that made sense, consider this: when you work in an office, you’re often required to wear slacks and a nice shirt. It’s not because the managers feel like being sadistic, or because they find street clothes offensive – it’s because it maintains a certain atmosphere that’s conducive to business.

Sage

I think we’re all barking up the wrong tree here – actually, more like the wrong branch, but on the same tree. Rather than offensiveness, I think we need to concentrate on taste and tone.

Part of what Jordan has done in establishing his rules and staff is set a vision for the general taste and tone of this forum to maintain a certain type and level of conversation. For example, there’s a common misconception that the swear filter is there for the sake of children and not offending prudes; rather, the swear filter is there to force posting in such a way that will more likely lead to good, constructive conversation (witness the posting quality on just about any forum without a swear filter and mostly dominated by teenage males). Offensiveness has nothing to do with it – it’s all about keeping the taste and tone at such a level that we think will promote the best discussions.

Now, keeping that salient point in mind, it should become really obvious why we would like to actively discourage jokes about huge tragedies, particularly when such jokes can provoke such strongly negative reactions from others.

If none of that made sense, consider this: when you work in an office, you’re often required to wear slacks and a nice shirt. It’s not because the managers feel like being sadistic, or because they find street clothes offensive – it’s because it maintains a certain atmosphere that’s conducive to business.

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Incredibly well put.

And I think a lot of people in here have been taking things a bit the wrong way. My primary point in making this thread was to discuss 9/11 and why some people take it so seriously still. Yes, it was tragic, but if you can't laugh at tragedy, life will be a bit too painful at times. This was overshadowed by my secondary point, which was to bring some light to, what I perceived, as different standards in moderation.

I clearly understood why the image was removed, but I was trying to make a point that people will always find something to be offended by, more so when you have an international community. And that by censoring anything found to be offensive, you will ultimately kill a lot of the content.

Laughter at tragedy is a nervous reflex. You might have something wrong with you if you find tragedy genuinely hilarious.

Omnis

Laughter at tragedy is a nervous reflex. You might have something wrong with you if you find tragedy genuinely hilarious.

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It’s not the tragedy that is funny. As someone mentioned earlier, tragedy is just the premise for the joke. I do not believe that should be taboo. I don’t think the joke was funny, but IMO there is nothing wrong with using tragedy as the premise for a joke.

I think the joke itself was poorly executed and could have been better with a number of different images, like this one. http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0106091vail1.html Now, there is humor in that and no one died or anything. And it would be suitable to be placed in that comic and everyone would've laughed.

EDIT: I just realized that the image may not be entirely suitable for work.

Despite people making jokes about war... do we actually see people posting photos of beheadings, seppuku or piles of dead, naked Jews and making jokes out of them? Obviously not.

It's not that it's 9/11, per se... just that, as Sage says, the joke and the image is in poor taste, and as such, has no place on the forum. I have a feeling that the fact that the images are of 9/11 are misleading. If they were of some other man falling to his death, they would be worth removing, anyway.

First of all, I never made any mention of 9/11 in my posts, as a reason for removing it. There's millions of tragedies in the course of many lifetimes, and yes, it's a sore spot for many people, but that in itself wasn't the reason for editing the post containing it. Funny does not equal acceptable, anyhow. There's plenty of jokes, comments, anecdotes, and real-life experiences that I, and others, cannot say on this forum without violating the Acceptable Use Policy.

We (as a community, not just moderators) do not like seeing images of death/dying people on our forums. People get upset if a fatal automobile accident is posted on this forum, and we also take steps to remove those sorts of images. We don't permit images of racing driver deaths, either. There's certain things we do not want to see the direction of the forum take, and that is one of them.

A line was crossed, and we respect the decency of the dead and their loved ones, before worrying if we are taking away a source of humor or even a learning experience away from others. Maybe some of you have never experienced the death of someone close to you before, and from my own expereince as a teenager, that sort changes your perspective. Using images of death to convey humor is crossing the line at GTPlanet, even if it was funny for some individuals. Cross the line, and we take action.

For those of you that think this is a slippery slope towards total censorship: Get that nonsense out of your head. The point I made was that certain things are too graphic for the rules and conventions of our forum. We walk a fine line from taking away the freedom to express yourself and what is just in bad taste or a poor/twisted sense of humor, but we use a keen sense of judgment and discussion rather than just editing people's posts out of sheer boredom.

Frankly, I do not like editing other member's posts, and I have rarely done so, except for:

1) A tiny handful of members which posted unacceptable images that violated the AUP.
2) Those that have spelled the thread title incorrectly and requested a change.
3) Newbie members that use totally ambiguous titles in the GT sub-forums.
4) Updating an FAQ thread.

But I have never changed the context of anyone's posts, and I do not wish to do so, since that truly spoils the meaning of expression on an internet discussion forum. At the end of the day, this is Jordan's forum, and he has laid a ground rule in the past and allowed us to enforce his rules, not ours. I'm not shifting the blame, since I did it, and if I didn't agree with Jordan's rules, I wouldn't have been here for 7 years, and wouldn't have agreed to become a moderator if I did not agree with those policies and procedures.

I think the fact that nobody is talking about the image I posted proves that this is not about 9/11 - it's about tasteless offensive humor.

One more time - this is not about 9/11.

I don't find the image offensive but I think it's in really bad taste. If you were to compare this to Titanic you would have to post a picture of someone on the actual ship jumping off the side or being shown to drown. Either way it would be removed from most forums.

Just remember that the guy you see jumping actually died from that fall, and in all honesty that removes any trace of humour that might have been there.

Alright then, just out of curiousness, would this gif also have been removed?

{Yes, it would.}

It doesn't show anybody falling, so pretty much just like this one;


- that, if I remember right, got posted and didn't get any crap.

You are completely right. One thing is to post an image of the Titanic. Another thing completely different is to make a joke out of it. They are two differents sides of the coin.

EDIT: In my opinion, they should be removed too. Because you are making fun out of a disaster.
EDIT2: The second one should. What is the first one? 9-11 too?

zoxxy

Alright then, just out of curiousness, would this gif also have been removed?

It doesn't show anybody falling, so pretty much just like this one;

- that, if I remember right, got posted and didn't get any crap.

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Actually, I just removed the second image because it has profanity in it. Please edit that out and feel free to re-post it.

I think Sage has stated it well, which also has a lot to do with why the sexual content images get removed. Call it censorship if you insist on getting uptight about it, but if so I think you are missing the point (deliberately or not). However, the point is not to make certain subjects taboo, but to make sure that all subjects are treated with a certain level of maturity and taste.

Zoxxy,

You happened to post two images almost completely devoid of humor, one of which has banned language on it. My guess would be that the titanic image would be removed (language), and everyone would just think the will smith image is stupid.


Ooops - tree'd.


Edit: Does anyone find the will smith image anywhere near as offensive as the one that started this thread?

Danoff

Zoxxy,

You happened to post two images almost completely devoid of humor, one of which has banned language on it. My guess would be that the titanic image would be removed (language), and everyone would just think the will smith image is stupid.


Ooops - tree'd.


Edit: Does anyone find the will smith image anywhere near as offensive as the one that started this thread?

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Not my point - I just took two random pictures. (Which I didn't find funny either)


edit: Didn't notice the profanity, thanks. *edited out*

zoxxy

Not my point - I just took two random pictures. (Which I didn't find funny either)

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I think I already made the point - 9/11 can be poked fun at if done with a little taste.

Danoff

Edit: Does anyone find the will smith image anywhere near as offensive as the one that started this thread?

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I do. But I will only do so if someone can confirm that the "Will Smith Image" is stomping the WTC. If so, I totally agree with you. It is something not to make fun out, regardless of the context in which it appears. 👎

About the image of "the dead pope", as you like to call it, zoxxy... When I posted that image in the Funny Pics Thread, I was not making a joke about his death, because in fact, there was no reference to his death present in the picture. Thus, I not consider it a bad taste joke. But if someone disagrees, I will gladly delete the image from the thread.

Yes, that's the collapse of the first tower.

Danoff

I think I already made the point - 9/11 can be poked fun at if done with a little taste.

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Show me an example then.

In that case, I deem it inappropiate for the standars of GTPlanet and the Acceptable Use Policy.

Danoff

Edit: Does anyone find the will smith image anywhere near as offensive as the one that started this thread?

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Offensive, no. The same premise as what I stated, yes. I would remove it, since it's making a joke out of the death of others.

Zoxxy is far from a guide on acceptable image taste on our site, as he's had about two dozen images removed from the Funny Pic Thread that didn't make the grade.

zoxxy

Show me an example then.

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https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=3267600&postcount=56

I don't see any reason to make fun of 9/11. Period.

But it wasn't a big deal. Of course, it was radically stupid as Spidey certainly would have saved the guy AND if the person could spell it may have helped too.

People that get trully "upset" by this are in one of two categories.

1. People who's lives were directly effected by those killed on 9/11
2. People that enjoy being upset and look for any excuse to do so.

Obviously, the first category is totally acceptable and understandble.

The second, well. there will always be those people.

Danoff

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=3267600&postcount=56

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Of course, that "original image" was never actually taken on 9/11/01, it was part of a hoax to begin with. Stay-Puff invaded the city in 1984.

So it's a joke of a bad attempt at a joke, referencing an absurd joke. Much funnier, since nobody was hurt.

Pupik

Stay-Puff invaded the city in 1984.

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Yeah, those were good times!