Photo GT5 prologue VS Forza 3 Demo

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sejtur
Found it!



Dunno if this is flaming or not. It could also be just a honest opinion. :D
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Coincidentally that's the same reason metal players\fans say they don't like (most)punk, 3 chords and a 4\4 tempo just don't move a poly-rhythm man.
 
Earth
It wasn't an honest opinion.

I am very good at reading body language, and when Dan Greenawalt said Forza 3 is the best looking racing game on any console he did not beleive himself, as was evident in his body language. After he made the comment his arm jerked up, which is the reaction someone has when they are lying
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ROFLMAO! Now THIS is classic. May I quote this for future use?
 
Earth
It wasn't an honest opinion.

I am very good at reading body language, and when Dan Greenawalt said Forza 3 is the best looking racing game on any console he did not beleive himself, as was evident in his body language. After he made the comment his arm jerked up, which is the reaction someone has when they are lying
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I just said "I can 100% tell when someone is lying by looking at their body langauge".

My arm didn't jerk... thus I am telling the truth. So I think we have now proven I am the authority on telling when someone is lying!

I am going to patent a new polygraph machine. It's a little bell on a bracelet, you strap it to someones arms, if they lie, the bell rings!

Bogie 19th
ROFLMAO! Now THIS is classic. May I quote this for future use?
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Quote it? It's sig worthy!
 
Toronado
iorilaugh.gif

Now you are a shrink? The outright absurdity of the above statement is something that cannot easily be described. Are you seriously, seriously suggesting that you have the ability to comprehensively analyze an off-the-cuff body movement made after a statement made during an interview and claim, as fact, that the man was lying about his own opinion?
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Bogie 19th
ROFLMAO! Now THIS is classic. May I quote this for future use?
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I guess all the interpretations of the body language in these videos are absurd?

It's called looking beyond the obvious. Looking into subconscience movements is something I do on a regular basis, and I picked up the Greenawalt movement at E3 after making the claim quite easily.



 
Earth
It wasn't an honest opinion.

I am very good at reading body language, and when Dan Greenawalt said Forza 3 is the best looking racing game on any console he did not beleive himself, as was evident in his body language. After he made the comment his arm jerked up, which is the reaction someone has when they are lying
Click to expand...

That was something out of this Univeres, Earth, and to be honest The thing that Yamauchi Said, was way heavier than flaming, its more like a Mean Mean Sarcasm which has more style than flaming but, at the end i believe he was honest...:lol:

Sorry, i had to say that:tup:
 
sejtur
Found it!


Eurogamer: When you look at the games which have come out since GT4 - with Forza Motorsport probably being the most notable - do you see things that you'd like to do, things that have moved the genre forward? Or do you develop Gran Turismo in a vacuum, ignoring the competition?

Kazunori Yamauchi: The latter is actually exactly fitting, I think. We don't reference any other games when we're making Gran Turismo - it's purely based on what we want to achieve as a game.

Actually, I have difficulty playing other games for over five minutes. A lot of the low-level quality just stands out so much in other games that I can't stand them!
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Dunno if this is flaming or not. It could also be just a honest opinion. :D
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Lol I can't blame him. I can't speak for Forza but I've tried pretty much all racing games this gen (grid, dirt, NFS, and the sort) and man are they bad. Shift is driving me insane. The AI on hard makes the game unplayable. Not only impossible to enjoy, but really impossible to play. And that's not mentioning the bugs. Oh man the bugs.

Anyway don't take his quote out of context. I don't know when he said that but I'm sure forza 3 was still in development and probably not even announced. Since only forza 1 and possibly 2 were out, I can totally understand the "A lot of the low-level quality just stands out so much...".

Still, a bad thing to say, and not like him to say that. At least that's the only bad quote you'll find of him. Unlike another asshole...
 
Earth
I guess all the interpretations of the body language in these videos are absurd?

It's called looking beyond the obvious. Looking into subconscience movements is something I do on a regular basis, and I picked up the Greenawalt movement at E3 after making the claim quite easily.



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You can read a lot into body movement, but lifting your left arm means you are lying? Seriously now...
 
Bogie 19th
Indeed it is, but you are correct. It could be his honest opinion, and I respect that. Just like Dan offered his honest opinion.
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Dan Greenawalt honest?

Sometimes people overwhelm me on how naive they can be.

EDIT: Btw, I'm not saying his lying because his waving his arm or anything. I'm saying his lying because he must be nothing short than absolutely mad to actually believe a word he says.

EDIT2: And it doesn't matter if Kazunori was just stating his honest opinion. He 🤬 up. He shouldn't have said that no matter how strongly he believes in it.
 
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Devedander
You can read a lot into body movement, but lifting your left arm means you are lying? Seriously now...
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How To Tell If Someone Is Trying To Trick Or Deceive You

"...they may have...twitches..."

:31



Everyone on this planet knows what Dan Greenawalt said was a lie, including himself. After uttering such a blatant lie to try and deceive the general public his arm 'twitched'. A visible, physical path into his soul was shown to the entire world. Some may claim that the movement did not mean anything. Would only a more obvious twitch, a twitch of lets say the head been suffice to these critics? I'm not sure, but the way some have discounted body language I dont think it would have mattered if the twitch was more obvious.

Conclusive.
 
Earth
How To Tell If Someone Is Trying To Trick Or Deceive You

"...they may have...twitches..."

:31

Everyone on this planet knows what Dan Greenawalt said was a lie, including himself. After uttering such a blatant lie to try and deceive the general public his arm 'twitched'. A visible, physical path into his soul was shown to the entire world. Some may claim that the movement did not mean anything. Would only a more obvious twitch, a twitch of lets say the head been suffice to these critics? I'm not sure, but the way some have discounted body language I dont think it would have mattered if the twitch was more obvious.

Conclusive.
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You're reading too much into it. It could be a sign he's lying. It could be just as well a normal twitching. There's no way to tell so there's no reason to keep pushing this.

Anyway, we know he's lying, twitching or not, so that's another reason to just leave this behind.
 
I'm going to have to bail on this thread, as without my PhD in Psychology I'm in no way qualified to take part in this super relevant discussion about body language. Also, I (stupidly) didn't take Philosophy as a major at uni, so I can't stand toe to toe with the Plato-like insight Earth has offered us into Dan Greenawalt's very soul. Carry on Earth. Your brilliance enlightens us all.
 
^What can you do with a degree in philosophy? Teach philosophy to pot smokers?

I won't mind that actually...
 
GTPlanet...the truth detecting and food-based analogy authority...

pfft gaming. Who wants to talk about that?
 
Earth
How To Tell If Someone Is Trying To Trick Or Deceive You

"...they may have...twitches..."

:31
Click to expand...


Wow the flawed logic and incorrect huge assumption chain here is amazing...

Here's the break down:

They may have twitches.

May does not mean that if they do it is now true, it means it could possibly be tied to but certainly nothing conclusive. A person may twich for any number of reasons or no real reason at all.

A twitch is a very broad statement and can't really be taken (especially in that context) to define any one thing. You certainly cannot take "they may twitch" to mean "an arm jerk is a decisive indication of lying".

To go from [a person who is lying] "may twitch" to "he jerked his arm so he is definitely lying" is about a huge a jump as you can make...

Earth you have a very strong trend going here... you decide something to be true, then you use your own decision as proof that it is true.

For instance:
Everyone on this planet knows what Dan Greenawalt said was a lie, including himself.
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That is a massive exageration as plenty of people have no idea who Dan Greenwalt is. That aside, of the people who do and have seen the presentation in question, almost certainly some of them don't even think he was lying let alone know. And as for knowing, how can you know some is lying about an opinion? The only person who could posibly know that (outside telling everyone that he lied) is himself. It's his opinion. My opinion could be that eating a piece of dog poop tastes good, only I can know whether that is true or not.


After uttering such a blatant lie to try and deceive the general public his arm 'twitched'.
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Again you are using the argument which you are trying to make in the argument in which you are trying to prove it...

And again, his arm twitched... ok... the statement from that video (which it seems you take as gospel) said that a liars arm may twitch... it doesn't mean every time anyone twitches they are lying. People twitch all the time for any number of reasons, SOMETIMES it may be because they are lying, but it's not a certainty by any means.

A visible, physical path into his soul was shown to the entire world. Some may claim that the movement did not mean anything. Would only a more obvious twitch, a twitch of lets say the head been suffice to these critics? I'm not sure, but the way some have discounted body language I dont think it would have mattered if the twitch was more obvious.
Click to expand...

I don't think there is such a twitch that makes me certain someones lying. Maybe if I could verify that other times when I knew he was lying he did the exact same twitch I could think it likely there was a causality... but even then I would never say I "know" especially with something as common as an arm twitch.

Conclusive.
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Far from it.

You start with a video (who's credability has to be accepted) then take a weak and open statement from it, apply it to a situation and back it only with your assumptions about what is happening to reach a conclusive point?

You should bring this to a debate club or a logic class... they would have a field day.

The only thing I think can be said that is conclusive as a result of this is that you have just massively shot your credibility in making any sort of argument.
 
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Wow!

It only took 1 and a half turns of the scroll wheel to avoid your post.

You must be softening Devedander.

Edit: 13 reviews up on metacritic. Average has slipped slightly to 91.9% still early days though.
 
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^ Oh man. Another wall of text from Devedander. :lol:

Opinion or not, we all know what Greenawalt was doing when he said that. We all know there's more 🤬 coming out of his mouth than it is from his ass so this "opinion" is probably just as well another giant tard.

I'm outraged by what that guy says, and I'd be even if I hated GT and loved forza. It's about morals, not about the game I like. And Greenawalt has none. I find it amusing how people try to defend such a man.
 
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I guess I could steer the conversation back to discussing the games themselves, over whether Dan Greenawalt is a liar, or a lying liar who lies and knows it.

Like, I'm still mystified over those who insist that Forza 3 is leaps and bounds, or even noticeably better than FM2. I've played the demo and seen some high res vids, and... well, I'm not seeing something someone else has that made them all huggy. This is what I've seen:
  • More textures on scenery.
  • Better lighting on the cars - no more black shadows.
Aaaand... that's about it. Some photomode pics look pretty darn real, the cars anyway, like the Mazda 3. Most others look pretty much like Forza 2, though. Bogie and Simple would say, "But you have to see it in motion." Well, I have the HD vids. I watched a replay of the demo for about 15 minutes straight.

Also, the feel of the demo isn't like a PC sim, just more Forza. If you have a taste for Forza, that's what you want anyway, but it doesn't click with me the way other games do.

Maybe it's just me - and half of GT Planet - but it seems that this is just an infatuation over the next big Forza.
 
Tenacious D
I guess I could steer the conversation back to discussing the games themselves, over whether Dan Greenawalt is a liar, or a lying liar who lies and knows it.

Like, I'm still mystified over those who insist that Forza 3 is leaps and bounds, or even noticeably better than FM2. I've played the demo and seen some high res vids, and... well, I'm not seeing something someone else has that made them all huggy. This is what I've seen:
  • More textures on scenery.
  • Better lighting on the cars - no more black shadows.
Aaaand... that's about it. Some photomode pics look pretty darn real, the cars anyway, like the Mazda 3. Most others look pretty much like Forza 2, though. Bogie and Simple would say, "But you have to see it in motion." Well, I have the HD vids. I watched a replay of the demo for about 15 minutes straight.

Also, the feel of the demo isn't like a PC sim, just more Forza. If you have a taste for Forza, that's what you want anyway, but it doesn't click with me the way other games do.

Maybe it's just me - and half of GT Planet - but it seems that this is just an infatuation over the next big Forza.
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Forza 2 was clearly a hushed work. They needed it fast, so they couldn't polish the graphics and the result is brute, raw and not very nice to look at. Forza 3 is Forza 2 but polished, that's why it looks noticeably better.

Since Forza 2 wasn't actually a title fully using the Xbox hardware like Forza 3 is now, the step in visual is greater than it would be if Forza 2 wasn't rushed. However, "A generational leap" and anything like that is just fanboy talk really.
 
Dravonic
Lol I can't blame him. I can't speak for Forza but I've tried pretty much all racing games this gen (grid, dirt, NFS, and the sort) and man are they bad. Shift is driving me insane. The AI on hard makes the game unplayable. Not only impossible to enjoy, but really impossible to play. And that's not mentioning the bugs. Oh man the bugs.

Anyway don't take his quote out of context. I don't know when he said that but I'm sure forza 3 was still in development and probably not even announced. Since only forza 1 and possibly 2 were out, I can totally understand the "A lot of the low-level quality just stands out so much...".

Still, a bad thing to say, and not like him to say that. At least that's the only bad quote you'll find of him. Unlike another asshole...
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You know what, I keep seeing people say Greenawalt has somehow insulted (or flamed) PD but I have never seen it.

The closest thing to "insulting" the GT series I have seen is him saying GT copied the adaptive racing line but turned it blue.

At no point has he said something along the lines of "our game has no competition" in fact he has said a few times that they have gotten ideas from other games. (including making a game of the same genre of the GT series)
 
Devedander
Wow the flawed logic and incorrect huge assumption chain here is amazing...

Here's the break down:

They may have twitches.
Click to expand...

Just looked the video over again and noticed more and more twitches, one after almost every lie, or to please some of you, every opinion he uttered. It's easy to tell when a twitch is just part of natural movement, or when a twitch is a result of you knowingly lying for personal, selfish gain. While I do not claim to be an expert in the field of body language, I have been watching the body language of people for quite some time and after a while anyone can get good at it. I am better at looking into someone's eyes, but I'm not slouch at body language.

Devedander
May does not mean that if they do it is now true, it means it could possibly be tied to but certainly nothing conclusive. A person may twich for any number of reasons or no real reason at all.
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Then why were all his twitches after key, controversial sentences? His arm twitched after claiming Forza 3 was the best looking racing game on any console. His head twitch after claiming Forza 3 could deliver thrills that the competition couldn't.

These twitches were not random but only occurred after a controversial statement. It's obvious to me these reflexes were his body screaming for him to stop lying.

Devedander
A twitch is a very broad statement and can't really be taken (especially in that context) to define any one thing. You certainly cannot take "they may twitch" to mean "an arm jerk is a decisive indication of lying".
Click to expand...

If someone is tapping their foot they're most likely nervous. If someone puts their hands in their pockets they're most likely nervous. You don't just normally do these things. You do them when you feel differently on the inside. Dan Greenawalt doesn't twitch his arm and head for the kicks of it. He does it when he feels something on the inside, and that something comes out in the form of a reflex, or twitch. In this case he knows he is deceiving the audience after each false claim so he nervously twitches after each remark.

Devedander
To go from [a person who is lying] "may twitch" to "he jerked his arm so he is definitely lying" is about a huge a jump as you can make...
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No, it's not. It's called connecting the dots. As I pointed out he twitched after making other controversial claims. Everything does not have to be 100% conclusive to be considered true. If that was the case every single murdurer would get off free because they would never confess. Dan Greenawalt would never confess to misleading the public so you say he should be given a pass.

I say he shouldn't be given a pass but should be held accountable.

Devedander
Earth you have a very strong trend going here... you decide something to be true, then you use your own decision as proof that it is true.
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And I'm waiting for you to prove it isn't true. You claim I don't have enough evidence when I've just now clearly given you enough evidence to prove Dan Greenawalt is a liar and a cheat. You, being a Forza 3 fan, will not accept this, of course.

Devedander
For instance:

That is a massive exageration as plenty of people have no idea who Dan Greenwalt is. That aside, of the people who do and have seen the presentation in question, almost certainly some of them don't even think he was lying let alone know. And as for knowing, how can you know some is lying about an opinion? The only person who could posibly know that (outside telling everyone that he lied) is himself. It's his opinion. My opinion could be that eating a piece of dog poop tastes good, only I can know whether that is true or not.
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Just like others your taking the easy way out. "I could give an opinion and say dog poop tastes good and that would be my opinion and not a lie." This is a very, very argument. Everyone knows Gran Turismo 5 Prologue and of course Gran Turismo 5 looks better then Forza 3. We don't know if Gran Turismo 5 can deliver the 'thrills' Forza 3 can because it hasn't been released. But Dan Greenawalt can? He's lying because what he claimed as truth is impossible to claim as truth.

It's quite obvious to me that Dan Greenawalt knows Forza 3 can't compete with GT5 in some areas like graphics, so he publicly boasts that Forza 3 has better graphics to give hope to the ignorant masses who would believe him. Dirty marketing at it's worst.

Devedander
Again you are using the argument which you are trying to make in the argument in which you are trying to prove it...

And again, his arm twitched... ok... the statement from that video (which it seems you take as gospel) said that a liars arm may twitch... it doesn't mean every time anyone twitches they are lying. People twitch all the time for any number of reasons, SOMETIMES it may be because they are lying, but it's not a certainty by any means.
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He twitched after almost every controversial statement.

Lets put two and two together.

To me it's proven beyond a reasonable doubt. It's quite obvious. To you it's not because you refuse to see the truth. You refuse to accept the facts. You refuse to listen.

Devedander
I don't think there is such a twitch that makes me certain someones lying. Maybe if I could verify that other times when I knew he was lying he did the exact same twitch I could think it likely there was a causality... but even then I would never say I "know" especially with something as common as an arm twitch.
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Does Dan Greenawalt have to come out and say he was lying in order for you to be convinced? I think so. Because it's obvious to me now that all the evidence in the world wouldn't convince you unless he came straight out and said it himself.

Devedander
Far from it.

You start with a video (who's credability has to be accepted) then take a weak and open statement from it, apply it to a situation and back it only with your assumptions about what is happening to reach a conclusive point?

You should bring this to a debate club or a logic class... they would have a field day.

The only thing I think can be said that is conclusive as a result of this is that you have just massively shot your credibility in making any sort of argument.
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I've lost credibility in the eyes of those who see the world through Forza 3 sunglasses. Doesn't matter to me.
 
Want to know how to tell if some one is lying? Kick them in the nut's then ask if they are going to tell the truth now, Works every time.
 
FyreandIce
You know what, I keep seeing people say Greenawalt has somehow insulted (or flamed) PD but I have never seen it.

The closest thing to "insulting" the GT series I have seen is him saying GT copied the adaptive racing line but turned it blue.

At no point has he said something along the lines of "our game has no competition" in fact he has said a few times that they have gotten ideas from other games. (including making a game of the same genre of the GT series)
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Greenawalt
"The definitive racing game for this generation"

"Forza 3 delivers the thrills that our competition can't"

"Forza 3 is the best looking game on any console"

"Forza 3 brings what no other racing games can. The best graphics and physics. The largest rooster of the hottest cars"

"We have taken the genre to new levels and they have stopped evolving the genre"

"I'd say the differentiator is they're old school"

"This is just showing off that this is the best looking racing game you're gonna see anywhere"

"The emperor is naked, and I don't want to, you know, I don't want to slap him around but no game competes with us right now"

"Polyphony digital aren't generally known as a studio to acknowledge that there are racing games that exist beyond their own"
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I love the last one. It pretty much shows that the guy is blatantly attacking PD because he is butthurt about something that is not true in the first place:

"Microsoft and other companies are years ahead of us in terms of experience of releasing online games"

PD appears to understand that Kazurori's indirect attack on Forza was a big mistake and now when asked about other racing games you'll see nothing but respect in answer.

So well, there you go. And that's just some of it.

And by the way, Turn 10 was the one who stole the driving line feature. I was on GT since 4 that I can confirm. Maybe it was in GT even before that. It was only in the lower level license tests though.
 
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Dravonic
I love the last one. It pretty much shows that the guy is blatantly attacking PD because he is butthurt about something that is not true in the first place:

"Microsoft and other companies are years ahead of us in terms of experience of releasing online games"

So well, there you go. And that's just some of it.
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Sort of stuff that will turn people off.

Can not be satisfied with your own product that has its own console.

Dis the competition and call it a day.
 
Oh my... too many pages to read. >_<
When FM-III is released at the end of October, I can expect several forum wars between then and March--even if there is no point for comparison until GT-V. Can't we just wait until both games hit the market? Even if it's another 6 months?
 
3Axis
Oh my... too many pages to read. >_<
When FM-III is released at the end of October, I can expect several forum wars between then and March--even if there is no point for comparison until GT-V. Can't we just wait until both games hit the market? Even if it's another 6 months?
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I don't think it would be even nearly as bad as it is right now if Turn 10 just kept their mouth shut. I know I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for that.
 
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