RKM Motorsport - Tuned Tuners - May '13

Aye, here comes another review. This one's for RJ. Instead of making up fragments like what I did with the R34, I'll just compile and condense them int one.

RKM Evolution X.

I dunno how to start this review, really. All I can say is that I kinda like the way the Evo X looks and sadly it's the last of the Evos because Mitsubishi themselves said so.

Anyway, I'd start off at Eiger to see how it deals tight, sweeping hairpins. Oddly, the car understeers soo much - then it digs into the inside. Must be the strong AYC. I loved this car's attitude at corner exit, but at corner entry - I'm at a loss of words now. I didn't like the AYC's action too at long corners corners like the one right before the tunnel. But the car usually gets my laps invalidated though, because of all the close calls and stuff. Not cool. :grumpy:

The Evo X did in... 1:07.409. About 4 tenths of a second faster than the RKM R34, which did 1:07.862. Take note though the lap of the Evo X could have been better. I mean A LOT better.

The next test? Cote d' Azur. People already knew that a girl lived somewhere here. Same story, but the AYC shines better here. Tight, short hairpins and technical 90-degree corners seem to be what the Evo X mastered. But this is the place where I noticed yet another flaw - mushy transitions. Yes, the AYC seems to lag. From Massenet to Casino is a bit of a hit or miss - if I missed it, it's either that the car plows to the outside wall or it hugs the inside wall. It's a bit unpredictable. Same goes to the poolside section. On the good side, I really loved its corner entry at the infamous Nouvelle Chicane - most of the cars I've driven would understeer a bit, but this car... Brake, turn, turn the other way, whoosh. Everything done in an instant, without any drama at all. Me gusta.

Forgot the lap time, but all I can say is that it did it in 1:41.xxx. I dunno the best benchmark for this car, but I think it's a decent lap time.

To see how this car does in purpose-built GP tracks with an obviously faster pace than the 2 tracks above, I went to Nurby GP/F. I couldn't get to my memory again since I'm in a rush to do this review because of homeworks to do. But there's only a few things I can tell you here. On corners like the Ford-Kurve, keep the throttle even, don't make any sudden inputs. Apparently, pressing the accelerator like an on/off switch just lets the AYC get even more unpredictable, so better throttle modulation would keep things even. The car was extremely responsive at kinks though like the Schumacher S. Believe it or not, before getting used to the car, the Evo X did some corner cutting at the first left-hander of the S-turn simply because it was a bit too excited with my steering inputs. The AYC also kept the understeer away at Dunlop-Kehre. 0% understeer there, the car just sticks to the inside. The hit/miss game's at Veedol, the sharp chicane right before the final corner. The AYC lagged a bit again. Was quite frustrating when I hit the white Polyphony Digital blocks there.

The Evo X lapped the GP/F in 2.08.998. 4 seconds slower than the car C-ZETA ranted about a few hours ago.

Because I couldn't understand this car's nature, I went to the High Speed Ring. I'm trying to see just when will the AYC kick in. That's where I realized even more about what's fundamental with this car - controlled input. Keep everything gradual. On the first corner of HSR, the speed loss when steering fully was greater than when steering just a little. I got this habit of braking late as if I'm pulling off a dangerous maneuver, but it seems like it's not a good technique for this Evo. Maybe because of the strong brakes that you set.

The Evo X did HSR in 1:10.472, approximately 3 seconds faster than the "overweight Renault", which lapped the same course in 1:13.143.

At first, the car felt unnatural. Like Onboy123, I prefer cars that require little or even no driving aids to correct mistakes. But it takes time though to get used to the unpredictable AYC. Sometimes it kicks in at the right moment, sometimes it won't even act. Kinda like turbo lag. But if I control the throttle and brakes properly, the experience is rewarding.

Apparently, I saw a bit in this thread that you are using a wheel, RJ. I'm a DS3 player that can crack good lap times but is inconsistent and sometimes erratic. Perhaps that's why I thought of this car as "unnatural". Still, I need to get more laps to get used to its peculiar handling. Or will nerfing the AYC help? I'll try to experiment later on.
 
The Evo X lapped the GP/F in 2.08.998. 4 seconds slower than the car C-ZETA ranted about a few hours ago.

Because I couldn't understand this car's nature,

I don't remember ranting about anything a few hours ago. :confused: But it must be pretty quick if you can lap it faster than a tuned Evo X by 4 seconds (key word: you). At least you've enclosed its name. Weirdly the one time I (tried to) use the You-know-what was on the Nurburgring. Probably should have tested it on another track but even so I still can't stand it.

Also I reviewed this car a long while back along with the two other Emperor's that had been released at the time (The Emperor didn't exist at the time. If you know what I mean). I felt it understeered a tad bit but it made it feel like a true tuning car. I think the other Evo tunes are better but it's still a very enjoyable machine that challenges you in a way. Keep in mind I use TCS 1, ABS 1 and Sensitivity 7.

Also as a quick note I used your MX-5 SC tune for the B-Spec Roadster 4h. I have no idea how it felt (since I'm not an AI reader) but I won by about 9 laps. Goes to show the power of tuning, doesn't it? :D

I have another review coming 'shortly'. Maybe it will be, maybe it won't be. Who's to say?
 
I just noticed you always used 69 in your RM car numbers. :lol:

I know I'm late, but google "69" Warning: It's at your own risk!


:lol:


Apparently, I saw a bit in this thread that you are using a wheel, RJ. I'm a DS3 player that can crack good lap times but is inconsistent and sometimes erratic. Perhaps that's why I thought of this car as "unnatural". Still, I need to get more laps to get used to its peculiar handling. Or will nerfing the AYC help? I'll try to experiment later on.
AYC is just crap in my eyes (and I'm using a wheel). It might work, but I think a good LSD works better. I think the reason is the "Hey, I got one!" and "Look at this crazy special thing: AYC!!!" factor. Anyway, the rest of the tune is pretty good.
 
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dr_slump
I know I'm late, but google "69" Warning: It's at your own risk!

:lol:

AYC is just crap in my eyes (and I'm using a wheel). It might work, but I think a good LSD works better. I think the reason is the "Hey, I got one!" and "Look at this crazy special thing: AYC!!!" factor. Anyway, the rest of the tune is pretty good.

Your right.

AYC tries to depress Yaw by reducing torque through the differential. It will also (act, key word) like a LSD. Its good for Rally where you go from gravel to tarmac and need a relatively soft spring compared to the stiff Grip Tunes for the Track, if you slap on a Tunable suspension in GT5 and stiffen up the springs, it's rather useless.
 
AYC is just crap in my eyes (and I'm using a wheel). It might work, but I think a good LSD works better. I think the reason is the "Hey, I got one!" and "Look at this crazy special thing: AYC!!!" factor. Anyway, the rest of the tune is pretty good.

AYC was much nicer to mess with in GT4, where the AYC controller had to be purchased to make changes and allowed you to use and adjustable front differential.

Oh and I can't bear to remove it from any of the newer (IV+) Evos. It's what makes it an Evo.

AYC tries to depress Yaw by reducing torque through the differential.

Dewha?
 
Rotary Junkie
AYC was much nicer to mess with in GT4, where the AYC controller had to be purchased to make changes and allowed you to use and adjustable front differential.

Oh and I can't bear to remove it from any of the newer (IV+) Evos. It's what makes it an Evo.

Dewha?

"Suppress" iPhone predictive text is a B sometimes.
 
Hey, RJ and Roj. I have a very important question for both of you. A little while ago, I released a new way to tune transmission to make it more powerful. I am wondering if you could teach me how to tune like you and become one of the RKM Tuners?
 
Also as a quick note I used your MX-5 SC tune for the B-Spec Roadster 4h. I have no idea how it felt (since I'm not an AI reader) but I won by about 9 laps. Goes to show the power of tuning, doesn't it? :D
I believe my driver won with a similar margin using my SC too. It's just as good in A-Spec mode as I found. Made the 4 hours less boring. :D
Hey, RJ and Roj. I have a very important question for both of you. A little while ago, I released a new way to tune transmission to make it more powerful. I am wondering if you could teach me how to tune like you and become one of the RKM Tuners?

We're not actually looking for a 3rd pair of hands at the garage right now and neither of us have to time to properly teach anyone how to tune. Sorry about that but it'll have to be a no for those reasons.

With that said, if you send us a setup you're working on and tell us where you're having problems, we can give you advice there. The main thing is to feel it out really, see what affects what and act on it. Eventually you'll be able to tune cars without thinking twice.
 
Rotary Junkie
And that still makes no sense because AYC is designed to force yaw movement rather than limit it. :P

AYC is to REDUCE Yaw movement.

You think it's there to "force Yaw movement"? That's fricken Classic, go back and re-read what you read about it cause your confused for real.

"force yaw movement" CrAzY!

Sits back and waits for RJ to go read up on AYC.

AYC, Yeah, that's what makes an Evo a road going Rally Car.

:dunce:
 
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Having trouble with the Google Machine? Not finding anything vague enough for you misrepresent as confirming your reversed ideas? Quiet cause your finally learning what AYC is after acting like you know best, but turns out you have it completely backwards... lol, too funny.

Here is some advice, I hope you can learn from it...

Active Yaw Control is to SUPPRESS Yaw movement :P

I'm going to get a bite to eat, back soon, I hope you've finished reading up on it by then.
 
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*sigh* So I guess you're mad at me for ever saying anything in your thread eh? :P

AYC is designed to force yaw movement. If it was forced to prevent it you'd have the most understeering pig in the world. You don't. You get sweet, sweet throttle-on oversteer.
 
Rotary Junkie
*sigh* So I guess you're mad at me for ever saying anything in your thread eh? :P

AYC is designed to force yaw movement. If it was forced to prevent it you'd have the most understeering pig in the world. You don't. You get sweet, sweet throttle-on oversteer.

Dude your clueless, not even close. Wrong on all counts. Increasing (or forcing yaw movement) in the corners will increase WT causing HORRIBLE handling. What the Hell kind of nonsense are you spewing?

I'm sure the first hit you get off Google will explain it to you, go read it (as clearly you need to) or I'll just copy past it in here so it's not MY words or ME explaining in a way you can't understand.

"Force yaw movement" yeah force it to stop ahahaha....
 
VTiRoj
Take your arguement-creating self out of this thread if you've got nothing constructive to say.

Umm, Geeze you want me to do what RJ has refused to do in my Garage? Funny!


Even Wiki knows...

"Active Yaw Control
Active Yaw Control uses a torque transfer mechanism in the rear differential to control rear wheel torque differential for different driving conditions and so limit the yaw moment that acts on the vehicle body and enhance cornering performance."

Awesome!
 
Dude your clueless, not even close. Wrong on all counts. Increasing (or forcing yaw movement) in the corners will increase WT causing HORRIBLE handling. What the Hell kind of nonsense are you spewing?

wat.

I'm sure the first hit you get off Google will explain it to you, go read it (as clearly you need to) or I'll just copy past it in here so it's not MY words or ME explaining in a way you can't understand.

"Force yaw movement" yeah force it to stop ahahaha....

I assume a skid steer can't turn then... Or if it attempts to it will transfer tons of weight and roll no matter how slowly it's moving.

Oh, wait.
 
Rotary Junkie
wat.

I assume a skid steer can't turn then... Or if it attempts to it will transfer tons of weight and roll no matter how slowly it's moving.

Oh, wait.

Awesome, a deflection with BS let's get back to the AYC...

Re-read buddy

"Active Yaw Control uses a torque transfer mechanism in the rear differential to control rear wheel torque differential for different driving conditions and so limit the yaw moment that acts on the vehicle body and enhance cornering performance."

Having trouble figuring it out?

Something not clicking????
 
using wikipedia as a holy grail of information makes you look dumb, which together with your extremely obnoxious attitude makes you come off as thoroughly unpleasant. It depends on whether you are actually talking about in game or real life, anyway. Whilst true that in real life the AYC is a digital differential that has the effect of balancing the yaw movement, in game I agree with rj that it seems to negate the typical 4wd understeer by causing slight oversteer. The description of Paulie's (LDP) tune for the car also describes the exact same thing, so whilst anyone can read off a wiki article and use it to snobbishly get one up on someone else, it takes more thought and understanding to observe what it actually does in the game, which is surely more relevant. Ironically in trying to win the argument and make rj look a fool you make yourself appear far more idiotic and unpleasant through your unsavory demeanor. I know rj doesn't need someone to fight his battle for him but I couldn't help saying something.
 
How's about you take your own Team Members advice, stay the Hell out of my Garage & I won't do to every set up that comes out of it what RJ has done to so many of mine, with his obviously misunderstood interpretation of Tuning Dynamics (not saying he can't FEEL out a Tune.) just his interpretation of what's going on is far off too often, I've shown it too many times. This AYC is just another example.
 
It was the first hit as I said I'd go get the first hit and post it wiki got luck of the draw, they will all say the same thing

Yeah umm he's MUTILATED my garage with his pig headed attitude, I've been told he's an admitted ass and I just have to take him how he is, well treat others the way you want to be treated, he didn't leave my garage when I asked him why should I leave his?

I honestly laugh at everything in the game being so different and every time RJ is shown to be completely wrong (using IRL for his explanations) some how it's chalked up to it being different in the game, and doing the opposite to reality. PURE Jokes!
 
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A car with too much YAW will spin out, a Car with zero YAW, physically can't turn.
That's why AYC both increases and decreases YAW based on what the car needs.
 
using wikipedia as a holy grail of information makes you look dumb, which together with your extremely obnoxious attitude makes you come off as thoroughly unpleasant. It depends on whether you are actually talking about in game or real life, anyway. Whilst true that in real life the AYC is a digital differential that has the effect of balancing the yaw movement, in game I agree with rj that it seems to negate the typical 4wd understeer by causing slight oversteer. The description of Paulie's (LDP) tune for the car also describes the exact same thing, so whilst anyone can read off a wiki article and use it to snobbishly get one up on someone else, it takes more thought and understanding to observe what it actually does in the game, which is surely more relevant. Ironically in trying to win the argument and make rj look a fool you make yourself appear far more idiotic and unpleasant through your unsavory demeanor. I know rj doesn't need someone to fight his battle for him but I couldn't help saying something.

Interestingly that quote he kept using does not seem to be from Wiki. At least... It's not in the Lancer Evo articles nor the article on AYC.

I've never driven an Evo in real life and probably won't ever get the chance to drive one in anger. But I've toyed with them since GT2 (though back then I had no idea what did what) and have consistently noted that a higher AYC setting results in more oversteer but also a slightly odd feeling of the outside of the car trying to be "pushed" through the corner faster than the inside.

Which is "forcing" the car to yaw (rotate on center axis). There are disadvantages to it but it's (again) what makes an Evo an Evo. Remove it and you may as well play with an Impreza because they're inherently better balanced.

Edit: Also worth noting that AYC response is based on steering angle. More steering angle results in a stronger response from AYC. I've not seen it do much limiting.
 
Adrenaline
A car with too much YAW will spin out, a Car with zero YAW, physically can't turn.
That's why AYC both increases and decreases YAW based on what the car needs.

Wrong (partially) it does monitor whAt he car needs actively, but it NEVER increases yaw or forces it's movement (it doesn't have to) it just increases or decreases the amount it reduces/allows.

Awesome!!!!
 
Interestingly that quote he kept using does not seem to be from Wiki. At least... It's not in the Lancer Evo articles nor the article on AYC..

Yeah it's in the S-AWC article, which I believe is the name for the combination of onboard awd systems on the evo x. (but you probably knew that, lol) yeah I'm not going to pretend I know a lot about the actual argument in hand, but I definitely notice a correlation between AYC strength and oversteer too. My point was more just about how obnoxious he was being. :crazy:
 
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