Religion/Philosophy Thread

vat_man · Jan 9, 2002

I hear this discussion of a void - but it's not something I perceive as either needing filling, or something that I have filled. Perhaps it's something I perceive differently.

Maybe it's something I satisfy by playing golf, sitting in the ocean at 7 o'clock in the morning waiting for a wave, appreciating a really good movie or album, enjoying good conversation with friends over a good meal and good wine.

I guess it's a difference in our respective 'human experiences', as I like to call it. I feel I have a strong personal perception of what is right and wrong, I believe I make a positive contribution to the communities I participate it in.

I've had a few people have a go at me over what they perceive as a 'lack' of religious beliefs, and I find that annoying - it's not a lack, it's just a difference. I don't think I would behave any differently if I did have faith in a supreme being - as I mentioned, I must fill that spot (if indeed there is a spot) in a different way.

Schumy · Jan 9, 2002

i've never heard of any "void"

Jordan · Jan 9, 2002

Originally posted by Schumy
.......that's pretty much all Jesus wants .... "Love your neighbours as you love me" .......all humans have some good and some evil in them .......perhaps God wants us to experience the battle between the two hoping the good will prevail ......i dunno, not trying to bs or anything

Actually, that's not all Jesus wants - he wants much more of you. He wants you to believe in him and love him with all your heart, and believe that he was crucified and brought back to life. That's what I believe truly makes you a "Christian" and gets your name in the Book of Life for eternity, not how long you think it took to create the earth or simply how good you act.

anyone with any appreciation for science has to believe in the process of evolution

It takes just as much "faith" to believe in evolution as it does any other religion.

LoudMusic · Jan 9, 2002

Originally posted by Schumy
i've never heard of any "void"

I think he's refering to that piece of you that you haven't discovered yet (:

~LoudMusic

Schumy · Jan 9, 2002

Originally posted by Jordan
Actually, that's not all Jesus wants - he wants much more of you. He wants you to believe in him and love him with all your heart, and believe that he was crucified and brought back to life. That's what I believe truly makes you a "Christian" and gets your name in the Book of Life for eternity, not how long you think it took to create the earth or simply how good you act.

It takes just as much "faith" to believe in evolution as it does any other religion.

i see that you are Christian but am doubting that you are a Catholic ......all of those things you said are obvious to Catholics (believing in Him, His Death, and Ressurection)......his advice to his disciples was "Love your neighbours as you have loved me" ......this is an action that we can take......the time for creation was merely an example to prove a point

your last comment makes me wonder ......perhaps you've not experienced a biology course in university
-there is no "faith" involved in evolution and it is far from a religion
-evolution is the central unifying concept of biology
-it affects almost all other areas of knowledge
-the theory of evolution has sometimes been called just a hypothesis or even mere speculation.....this idea is based on a misunderstanding of the scientific use of the term theory which means "a statement of what are held to be the general laws, principles, or causes of something known or observed" (Oxford English Dictionary)
-today, EVOLUTION IS NOT A HYPOTHESIS BUT A FACT
-i believe Thomas Dobranzsky said it best "Nothing in science makes any sense except in the light of evolution"

Apparently you are wrong on your views of evolution

LoudMusic · Jan 9, 2002

Originally posted by Schumy
i see that you are Christian but am doubting that you are a Catholic ......all of those things you said are obvious to Catholics (believing in Him, His Death, and Ressurection)......his advice to his disciples was "Love your neighbours as you have loved me" ......this is an action that we can take......the time for creation was merely an example to prove a point

your last comment makes me wonder ......perhaps you've not experienced a biology course in university
-there is no "faith" involved in evolution and it is far from a religion
-evolution is the central unifying concept of biology
-it affects almost all other areas of knowledge
-the theory of evolution has sometimes been called just a hypothesis or even mere speculation.....this idea is based on a misunderstanding of the scientific use of the term theory which means "a statement of what are held to be the general laws, principles, or causes of something known or observed" (Oxford English Dictionary)
-today, EVOLUTION IS NOT A HYPOTHESIS BUT A FACT
-i believe Thomas Dobranzsky said it best "Nothing in science makes any sense except in the light of evolution"

Apparently you are wrong on your views of evolution

I think what people have a problem with is accepting Evolution (note the capitalization) as a replacement for God.

My Grandfather (Roman Catholic ... from Hungary actually) proposed an interesting idea. He claimed to believe in 'evolution within a species'. Basically, God made dogs - evolution made 380+ breeds of dogs. God made monkeys - evolution made 100s of species of monkeys. God made humans - evolution made us want to conquer the world and ask questions like "Who is God?", then fly airplanes into buildings.

Whoaa .... sorry, I got side tracked. Did I make any symbolance of a point there?

~LoudMusic

Schumy · Jan 9, 2002

Originally posted by LoudMusic

I think what people have a problem with is accepting Evolution (note the capitalization) as a replacement for God.

My Grandfather (Roman Catholic ... from Hungary actually) proposed an interesting idea. He claimed to believe in 'evolution within a species'. Basically, God made dogs - evolution made 380+ breeds of dogs. God made monkeys - evolution made 100s of species of monkeys. God made humans - evolution made us want to conquer the world and ask questions like "Who is God?", then fly airplanes into buildings.

Whoaa .... sorry, I got side tracked. Did I make any symbolance of a point there?

~LoudMusic

evolution should be accepted b/c it is a scientific fact .....to disregard evolution would mean complete ignorance of science ....evolution and God have nothing to do with one another for evolution has NO PURPOSE and is an inevitable outcome of interactions between organisms and their environment
no offense towards your grandfather for he can believe what he wants but it doesn't work that way either
i'm certainly no expert but definitely accept evolution and still maintain my Catholic beliefs ....i just don't take the Bible literally .....even Pope John Paul and the Roman Catholic church have come to accept evolution ....it would be foolish not to ........i don't know what the Protestant churches think of evolution but i would assume the same

LoudMusic · Jan 9, 2002

Originally posted by Schumy
evolution should be accepted b/c it is a scientific fact .....to disregard evolution would mean complete ignorance of science ....evolution and God have nothing to do with one another for evolution has NO PURPOSE and is an inevitable outcome of interactions between organisms and their environment
no offense towards your grandfather for he can believe what he wants but it doesn't work that way either
i'm certainly no expert but definitely accept evolution and still maintain my Catholic beliefs ....i just don't take the Bible literally .....even Pope John Paul and the Roman Catholic church have come to accept evolution ....it would be foolish not to ........i don't know what the Protestant churches think of evolution but i would assume the same

I take no offence, but "evolution should be accepted b/c it is a scientific fact .....to disregard evolution would mean complete ignorance of science" is a bit flamboyant. I can accept gravity, but not accept evolution.

Evolution ... the passage of time where organisms and objects interact. My Geography teacher last semester kept refering to things in "Geographical time", meaning that what he was talking about at that particular time had taken an extremely long time to create [Continents, oceans, Grand Canyon, mountains ... for example]. Maybe that's another difficulty people have with Evolution - it takes so long to see its effects that it's difficult to understand.

And just because one dude says it's ok, doesn't mean I'm going to jump on the bandwagon. I don't care if he's the Pope .... oh wait, he IS! (:

~LoudMusic

Schumy · Jan 9, 2002

Originally posted by LoudMusic

I take no offence, but "evolution should be accepted b/c it is a scientific fact .....to disregard evolution would mean complete ignorance of science" is a bit flamboyant. I can accept gravity, but not accept evolution.

Evolution ... the passage of time where organisms and objects interact. My Geography teacher last semester kept refering to things in "Geographical time", meaning that what he was talking about at that particular time had taken an extremely long time to create [Continents, oceans, Grand Canyon, mountains ... for example]. Maybe that's another difficulty people have with Evolution - it takes so long to see its effects that it's difficult to understand.

And just because one dude says it's ok, doesn't mean I'm going to jump on the bandwagon. I don't care if he's the Pope .... oh wait, he IS! (:

~LoudMusic

You don't accept evolution....that's too bad......perhaps you should do an experiment with microorganisms.....certain bacteria only live for minutes/hours so many generations can exist in a small amount of time .......in this situation, evolution is easier to observe .....evolution is a fact just like the concept of gravity ....if you are logical enough to understand gravity then evolution should be straight forward enough ......i don't accept evolution b/c the Pope and the Roman Catholic Church do ......they are not stupid .....maybe a 100 years ago there would be controversy but not today .....you should get with the times ....the scientific intelligence laughs at people who disregard evolution .....evolution is FACT ....unfortunately the uncertainties should be addressed towards the existence of God

LoudMusic · Jan 9, 2002

Originally posted by Schumy
You don't accept evolution....that's too bad......perhaps you should do an experiment with microorganisms.....certain bacteria only live for minutes/hours so many generations can exist in a small amount of time .......in this situation, evolution is easier to observe .....evolution is a fact just like the concept of gravity ....if you are logical enough to understand gravity then evolution should be straight forward enough ......i don't accept evolution b/c the Pope and the Roman Catholic Church do ......they are not stupid .....maybe a 100 years ago there would be controversy but not today .....you should get with the times ....the scientific intelligence laughs at people who disregard evolution .....evolution is FACT ....unfortunately the uncertainties should be addressed towards the existence of God

I must be mistaken - have I said that I don't accept evolution? Your inference toward such a statement seems rather brash. And "get with the times ... evolution is FACT". What happens when the times change? Should I get with that as well? Woohoo, jump on the bandwagon.

But seriously, and this goes for any topic, don't just accept ideas because a bunch of 'smart people' say it's a good thing. Mighty Mighty Boss Tones, "Question the Answers". Question them for yourself - don't rely on someone else. What goes on in your head is your business - don't let someone else put thoughts up there. I'm not here to proclaim that the idea/theory of evolution is wrong - in fact, people who do proclaim such powerful beliefs really get on my nerves. My crusade (if you will ...) is to get people to think strongly for themselves about what other people are telling them. Is this correct? Are we doing the right thing? Should I be doing something different?

Stop. Think. Move on. Hey it doesn't really matter anyway. We're all gonna end up dead in the end! (:

~LoudMusic

Schumy · Jan 9, 2002

do you or don't you accept evolution because it is a scientific fact .....people attend school to learn about it just like they learn about gravity ......perhaps i should doubt gravity......apparently it is okay to doubt evolution even though they are both fact

LoudMusic · Jan 9, 2002

Originally posted by Schumy
do you or don't you accept evolution because it is a scientific fact .....people attend school to learn about it just like they learn about gravity ......perhaps i should doubt gravity......apparently it is okay to doubt evolution even though they are both fact

I'm not going to tell you, HA!

People go to school to learn about unproven theories all the time. Generally this takes a major university with lots of funding for research. I found a neat quote, "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." -- Albert Einstein. Chill out dude, I'm just having fun.

But here is something you may be interested in. From http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/history/evotheory.html we find:

The theory of evolution, formalized by Charles Darwin, is as much theory as is the theory of gravity, or the theory of relativity. Unlike theories of physics, biological theories, and especially evolution, have been argued long and hard in socio-political arenas. Even today, evolution is not often taught in primary schools. However, evolution is the binding force of all biological research. It is the unifying theme. In paleontology, evolution gives workers a powerful way to organize the remains of past life and better understand the one history of life. The history of thought about evolution in general and paleontological contributions specifically are often useful to the workers of today. Science, like any iterative process, draws heavily from its history.

Basically what you were trying to say, but written with a more properly structured voice and tone.

~LoudMusic

Schumy · Jan 9, 2002

Originally posted by LoudMusic

I'm not going to tell you, HA!

People go to school to learn about unproven theories all the time. Generally this takes a major university with lots of funding for research. I found a neat quote, "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." -- Albert Einstein. Chill out dude, I'm just having fun.

But here is something you may be interested in. From http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/history/evotheory.html we find:

Basically what you were trying to say, but written with a more properly structured voice and tone.

~LoudMusic

ooohhh....big secret ....confidential

yeah, i'm not a university professor and despise English so i often have difficulties getting my point across

LoudMusic · Jan 9, 2002

Originally posted by Schumy
ooohhh....big secret ....confidential
yeah, i'm not a university professor and despise English so i often have difficulties getting my point across

Well I got jumped on the last time I brought this up. Maybe there'll be some fresh blood out there again (:

http://forums.gtplanet.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3485

It's almost 4 am here. I have to be awake and getting ready for work in 4 hours. YUCK.

Good night Schumy, no hard feelings?

~LoudMusic

Schumy · Jan 9, 2002

yeah, how about good morning........i got about 4 hours sleep and have to be at school in less than an hour:sleep:

Pako · Jan 9, 2002

How about the school of thought where evolution is monitored through creation? Think about.... if a blink of an eye to God is a 1,000 years to us...how long would a day be to God's? Lets assume, oh about 10 million years.... Could it be, that through the study of evolution, we are just looking into the creation process administored by God?

Hummmm...

Just a thought...

That what we're doing here right?

TATINEE · Jan 9, 2002

Originally posted by mr persistance
why pray to a god who will not respond to you

Why do you think that he won't respond? When I pray, I always get a response.. it might not be the response I want and it might not be as fast as I want it, but it happens.

TATINEE · Jan 9, 2002

Originally posted by Pako
How about the school of thought where evolution is monitored through creation? Think about.... if a blink of an eye to God is a 1,000 years to us...how long would a day be to God's? Lets assume, oh about 10 million years.... Could it be, that through the study of evolution, we are just looking into the creation process administored by God?

Thanks, Pako.. this is just what I wanted to say, but couldn't think of how to word it.

Jordan · Jan 9, 2002

Well, when it comes to "how long" the days of creation were, I turned to "The Answers Book - The 20 most-asked questions about creation, evolution, and the book of Genesis, answered." and found some very interesting information for you guys. Here's a quote from the book:

To understand the meaning of "day" in Genesis 1, we need to determine how the Hebrew word for "day", yom, is used in the context of Scripture. Consider the following:

A typical concordance will illustrate that "yom" can have a range of meanings: a period of light as contrasted to night, a 24-hour period, time, a specific point of time, or a year.

A classical, well-respected Hebrew-English lexicon (a one-way dictionary) has seven headings and many sub-heading for the meaning of "yom" - but defines the creation days of Genesis 1 as ordinary days under the heading "day as defined by evening and morning."

A number, and the phrase "evening and morning," are used for each of the six days of creation (Gen. 1:5, 8,13,19,31).

Outside Genesis 1, "yom" is used with a number 410 times, and each time it means an ordinary day - why would Genesis 1 be the exception?

In Genesis 1:5, "yom" occurs in context with the word "night." Outside of Genesis 1, "night" is used with "yom" 53 times - and each time it means an ordinary day. Why would Genesis 1 be the exception? Even the usage of the word "light" with "yom" in this passage determines the meaning as ordinary day.

The plural of "yom", which does not appear in th Genesis 1, can be used to communicate a longer time period, e.g., "in those days." Adding a number here would be non-sensical. Clearly, in Exodux 20:11 where a number is used with days, it unambiguously refers to six earth-rotation days.

There are words in biblical Hebrew (such as olam or qedem) that are very suitable for communicating long periods of time, or indefinite time, but none of these words are used in Genesis 1. Alternatively, the days for years could have been compared with grains of sand if long periods were meant.

Another quote by Martin Luther (in response to some of the church fathers claiming that the universe was created in less than six days) is in the book, which sums the whole thing up pretty well...

When Moses writes that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days, then let this period continue to have been six days, and do not venture to devise and comment according to which six days were one day. But, if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days, then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are. For you are to deal with Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written. But since God is speaking, it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to go.

polyphony 001 · Jan 9, 2002

I'm not sure what some people are trying to prove here. You can't argue people out of their faith cos the very nature of faith is that people stick to it despite contradictions and doubts all around them. If someone believes that god created the world in 7 days then no amount of 'proof' about evolution is going to sway them. Their deep preconceptions will mean that they simply cannot give credibility to anything that contradicts their belief system.

So, leave people to their beliefs - you don't have to agree with them, just learn to live in peace.

I'm out

J

PS "If you're frightened of dying, and you're holding on, you see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace...you see the devils are really angels...freeing you from the earth".
(I just love that quote)

Pako · Jan 9, 2002

"Yom".....

Interesting... Thanks for the insight, but doesn't the Bible say that a thousands years to us is like a blink of an eye to God? You know..maybe not. I tried to find it and well I can't seem to locate it. Humm... Am I just making this up, or does anyone else know what I'm talking about here...?

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When Moses writes that God created Heaven and Earth and whatever is in them in six days, then let this period continue to have been six days, and do not venture to devise and comment according to which six days were one day. But, if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days, then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are. For you are to deal with Scripture in such a way that you bear in mind that God Himself says what is written. But since God is speaking, it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to go.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Humm... That's pretty good....kinda humbles ya doesn't it?

There's some exceptions to that though...and that is the understanding and comprehension of each indivudual.

"God is speaking, it is not fitting for you wantonly to turn His Word in the direction you wish to go."

This is good stuff, but when I read a scripture, I may "interoperate" thoses writings differently than someone else, thus seeing a different direction to go, based on my understanding of the word.

But what is the "Basic Truth" ? This "Basic" truth can be found in many different religions... And have you ever looked at different religions? There are often many parallels that are the same, between Hinduism, Buddism, Christianity, so on and so fourth.....

And what about the missing years of Christ? How many was it, 16 years or something that the Bible has no account for? Maybe he was in India spreading the word as well.....

There all just speculations really, but what do you think?

TATINEE · Jan 9, 2002

Originally posted by Pako
"Yom".....

Interesting... Thanks for the insight, but doesn't the Bible say that a thousands years to us is like a blink of an eye to God? You know..maybe not. I tried to find it and well I can't seem to locate it. Humm... Am I just making this up, or does anyone else know what I'm talking about here...?

No, I've heard that, too. Maybe I'll ask at church tomorrow if anyone knows where I can find where that's mentioned in the Bible.

Jordan · Jan 9, 2002

Yes, I'm 99.9% sure that that statement is in the bible, too. But that doesn't really make any difference, does it? I mean, put simply, the thought of God "guiding" or "orchestrating" evolution goes directly against Genesis, especially when you start thinking about Adam and Eve. It says that God made Adam, with his own hands and breathed life into him, and he made Eve out of Adam's rib. Now, I don't think the process of evolution includes a monkey's ribs popping out and you suddenly have a girl monkey, does it?

So, you see, if you believe that every word in the bible is the absolute truth (which, I believe, it is), then it's absolutely impossible for you to believe that the six days of Creation (however long they were) is a simplified version of evolution.

Pako · Jan 9, 2002

Originally posted by Jordan
.....Now, I don't think the process of evolution includes a monkey's ribs popping out and you suddenly have a girl monkey, does it?

I don't buy into the "whole" evolution theory either... and no, I don't believe that we were made from Monkeys either.

But scienctific evidence is hard to argue with.

The point I'm trying to make here is that IMHO I don't think God just snaped his fingers and the universe appeard like magic.... I believe that a process took place, and our scientists are finding evidence of that process.... some with proof and other findings with speculation..

Why is it that there is no mention of Dinosours? I mean, "In the beginning I made Large Lizards and saw that they were bad, so I destroyed the population and started over..." Seriously though, without the dino's where would our oil resources come from. It's all part of a master plan...

Schumy · Jan 9, 2002

Originally posted by Jordan
Yes, I'm 99.9% sure that that statement is in the bible, too. But that doesn't really make any difference, does it? I mean, put simply, the thought of God "guiding" or "orchestrating" evolution goes directly against Genesis, especially when you start thinking about Adam and Eve. It says that God made Adam, with his own hands and breathed life into him, and he made Eve out of Adam's rib. Now, I don't think the process of evolution includes a monkey's ribs popping out and you suddenly have a girl monkey, does it?

So, you see, if you believe that every word in the bible is the absolute truth (which, I believe, it is), then it's absolutely impossible for you to believe that the six days of Creation (however long they were) is a simplified version of evolution.

You're what they call a "Literalist" and must know little if anything about science .....i'd guess that in about 100 years there will be few left of your type for this notion is very primitive ......obviously people living 2000 years ago wanted answers about how the world came to be .....what else could they suggest other than a Supreme Being with the ability to do whatever He chooses ........do you think that they were up to date on their carbon dating skills ......humans are evolving constantly and new answers are being unmasked all the time .......people are getting smarter and smarter .......it wasn't that long ago that people thought that the world was flat and that if you travelled far enough you would eventually fall of the edge..... that was only about 500 years ago.....how smart and knowledgeble were the people living 2000+ years ago? ......probably not your average rocket scientist .......and if you take the 6 or 7 days of Creation literally then where do dinosaurs (for an easy example) fit in to these six days b/c we all know that they occupied earth millions of years before any humans did ......i'm a Roman Catholic but i still am a logical person with some common sense :cheers:

Pako · Jan 9, 2002

There are some very literal accounts in the Bible that need to be and are taken very literally.

On the other hand, there are also many things that are descriptions that are relitive to the time in which visions were interprited. Take some of the visions that make up the book of Revelations.. "Giant Locus with wings of steel that spit fire".. Now to me, that sounds an aweful like a helecopter. Take someone 2,000 years ago, how would you describe a helecopter will a large payload of weapons? A "Giant Locus with wings of steel that spit fire" sounds pretty accurate.

Now take a look at the design specifications for the Ark. Those measurments were exact.

So there are thousands upon thousands of verses in the Bible that are historical documentations of what happened, there are also thousands of interpritations thoughout the Bible...but here's the amazing thing...even though it was written over the span of thousands of years by many different scolars and prophets....there isn't even one contridiction throughout the entire Bible, why?.... Cause it's writtings were inspiried by the same author.

Schumy · Jan 9, 2002

Originally posted by Pako
There are some very literal accounts in the Bible that need to be and are taken very literally.

On the other hand, there are also many things that are descriptions that are relitive to the time in which visions were interprited. Take some of the visions that make up the book of Revelations.. "Giant Locus with wings of steel that spit fire".. Now to me, that sounds an aweful like a helecopter. Take someone 2,000 years ago, how would you describe a helecopter will a large payload of weapons? A "Giant Locus with wings of steel that spit fire" sounds pretty accurate.

Now take a look at the design specifications for the Ark. Those measurments were exact.

So there are thousands upon thousands of verses in the Bible that are historical documentations of what happened, there are also thousands of interpritations thoughout the Bible...but here's the amazing thing...even though it was written over the span of thousands of years by many different scolars and prophets....there isn't even one contridiction throughout the entire Bible, why?.... Cause it's writtings were inspiried by the same author.

yep....i agree with everything you just said .....like i said earlier i am Roman Catholic :cool:

Jordan · Jan 9, 2002

Originally posted by Schumy
You're what they call a "Literalist" and must know little if anything about science .....i'd guess that in about 100 years there will be few left of your type for this notion is very primitive ......obviously people living 2000 years ago wanted answers about how the world came to be .....what else could they suggest other than a Supreme Being with the ability to do whatever He chooses ........do you think that they were up to date on their carbon dating skills ......humans are evolving constantly and new answers are being unmasked all the time .......people are getting smarter and smarter .......it wasn't that long ago that people thought that the world was flat and that if you travelled far enough you would eventually fall of the edge..... that was only about 500 years ago.....how smart and knowledgeble were the people living 2000+ years ago? ......probably not your average rocket scientist .......and if you take the 6 or 7 days of Creation literally then where do dinosaurs (for an easy example) fit in to these six days b/c we all know that they occupied earth millions of years before any humans did ......i'm a Roman Catholic but i still am a logical person with some common sense

Haha!!!

Yep, that's me, quite the primitive type! :rolleyes:

I may be primitive, but at least I'm smart enough to know when a bunch of anti-God evolutionists are trying to drill their theories in my head with some high school textbook. Believe what you want, Schumy - I just like to know where I'm going to spend eternity after I die. One more thing: be sure to read Creation: a shattering critique of the PBS/NOVA 'Evolution' series and Refuting Evolution. Using common-sense and scientific fact, they will make you re-think your evolutionistic ideas.

Pako, you really need to get this book (that I quoted out of earlier)! It's got a whole chapter dedicated to the explanation of dinosaurs in the Bible. I'll type up a little sample and post it...it's really good!

Pako · Jan 9, 2002

Originally posted by Jordan
Yes, I'm 99.9% sure that that statement is in the bible, too. But that doesn't really make any difference, does it? I mean, put simply, the thought of God "guiding" or "orchestrating" evolution goes directly against Genesis, especially when you start thinking about Adam and Eve. It says that God made Adam, with his own hands and breathed life into him, and he made Eve out of Adam's rib. Now, I don't think the process of evolution includes a monkey's ribs popping out and you suddenly have a girl monkey, does it?

So, you see, if you believe that every word in the bible is the absolute truth (which, I believe, it is), then it's absolutely impossible for you to believe that the six days of Creation (however long they were) is a simplified version of evolution.

Here's my take on evolution... Darwin is an atheist, and given that, creation is not part of his equation, thus he had to arive at a conclusion to fill that void and answer the question, "Where did the universe and everything that's in it come from?". His theories we based on some scientific fact showing us that every living systems adapts to their environment over time. This we know as fact, what we don't know as fact is where we originated from, this is where creation and faith are introduced.

We can carbon date the earth to be millions of years old, we can track single cellular organisms to have existed during that time, and we can see the evolution process of single cell organisms evolving into multi-cellular organisms. Now...what do we do with this information? I don't know. Nor do I even begin to try and phatham God's plan or scheme of things...I do know that there's evidence that evolution in it's basic since does has occured and continues to play a part of our eco system today. Are humans from Monkey's? No, I have to think not! Was Eve created from the rib of Adam? Literally? I don't know, was his rib a symbol of his embodiedment with God? Was the dirt of the ground that Adam was created from actual dirt or was it a symbol of something else? I don't know.... Like I said earlier the Bible if filled with symbolisms as well as facts, but who determines which is which?

Just a thought . . . . Darwism is a Religion all it's own with evolution as it's basis for it's teachings. Even Darwinites have to have faith in certain area's don't they? :lol:

Pako · Jan 9, 2002

Originally posted by Jordan
. . . . .Pako, you really need to get this book (that I quoted out of earlier)! It's got a whole chapter dedicated to the explanation of dinosaurs in the Bible. I'll type up a little sample and post it...it's really good!

Cool...can't wait!

Oh wait...

I guess I have to...

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