GTP Mass Debating Contest Heat 6

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Danny

Danny

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Round Six!

A tricky topic today, should provide some great arguements.

Team A vs. Team AAMMM

Debate Topic:-
Should parental consent be required for underage pregnant women to have abortions?

Team A will be arguing that yes it should, Team AAMMM will be arguing that it should not be required.

Deadline for 400 word arguement-Wednesday 13th December.

Your 3 days to formulate a 400 word arguement start...



Now!

Please acknowledge notice, teams A and AAMMM!

No more farce, please.
 
3 days from Friday midnight :ouch: Saturday is Manchesters derby day and Sunday is well Sunday, did you factor that in at all :P;). Only kidding with the bitching, I probably wont be on tomorrow, but I should be on for an hour or two on Sunday and Mondays a regular day so let the debate begin.
 
Similar measure generated quite a interest around where I live. This should be interesting. 👍
 
Has anyone thought to PM all participants to make sure they know this has started? Its a great topic and would be nice if us judges actually got the chance to decide on a winner this time.
 
Ok i seen it. Will PM Duke to let him know.

I personally have no idea on my own position on this, let alone arguing one.
 
Thanks to Fryz for the heads up. I've just now seen the notice, approximately 24 hours into the round. I may petition for an extension if things get tight - last week I was sitting around with time on my hands, but next week is going to be tougher. We'll give it a crack, though.
 
Wenders
Has anyone thought to PM all participants to make sure they know this has started? Its a great topic and would be nice if us judges actually got the chance to decide on a winner this time.
Click to expand...
Great idea. 👍
 
I've just noticed the dedaline is Weds, I thought it was tonight, oh well that takes the pressure off me, I've had no time to even think about this over the weekend and today I'm taking one of the cars to a garage so I wouldn't have much time for it today either, but I'll try to get some ideas at least jotted down and pm'd to danoff by the end of the day and try to draft something up tomorrow.
 
Yeah, this is finals week for me, so I don't know if I can be of much use to my team - let's hope I find some time.

If anything, I can prooofread...
 
Team A is (as expected) requesting an extension on the deadline. We'll try to get something in today, but it's a busy week both professionally and personally, so it's not going to be easy.
 
We're basically done, so the extension won't help us. But I have no problem with extending the deadline since I completely understand how the timing of these things can be unfortunate. Maybe Live4speed and Kenny can chime in.
 
Argument Against Parental Consent Requirements for Underage Abortions​
Team AAMMM​

Introduction

Allowing parents to force their daughters to carry a pregnancy to term against her wishes is cruel and immoral.

Requiring Consent is Immoral

Children have the same fundamental human rights as adults. Because children aren’t considered mature enough to exercise all of their rights, their parents often act for them. But the law requires that parents protect their child’s rights, not override them. For example, if parents withhold consent for a serious medical operation, their child’s doctor may overturn the parents’ decision with a court order. In addition, parents may not physically abuse their child. The child has the right to protect her own body. Forcing a teenage girl to carry a pregnancy to term against her wishes constitutes child abuse because it disregards that right.

Furthermore, requiring parental consent is inconsistent. Currently, underage girls have the right to give birth without consent because requiring consent would violate her rights, giving her parents (the baby’s grandparents) the ability to force an abortion. Thus, proponents of parental consent for abortion must argue, inconsistently, that the girl is mature enough to choose to have a baby, but not to choose to have an abortion.

Requiring Consent Increases Risk

Requiring parental consent introduces a (potentially indefinite) delay to the abortion process, which increases risk to all underage girls seeking abortion.

  • The risk of death from childbirth is 10 times that of legal abortion overall[1-3].
  • The risk associated with abortions increases exponentially with each week of pregnancy by 38%[1] approaching the risk of childbirth at the end of term.

Legal hurdles in obtaining waivers can only increase the danger either through forcing childbirth or delaying the procedure. Statistics show that mandatory parental involvement increases the gestational age at which abortions occur[3]. Furthermore:

  • Knowledge of the pregnancy may become a catalyst for additional abuse from abusive parents.
  • Estranged parents can be difficult to contact, and may already play little parenting role.
  • A girl due after the age cutoff may wait until after that age before aborting – increasing her risk.
  • Parents’ wishes may conflict, resulting in legal disputes, divorce, and custody battles lengthening the process.

Conclusion

Parental consent requirements increase risk since childbirth is significantly more dangerous overall than legal abortions and since abortion risk increases with time. Allowing parents to force their child to give birth is inconsistent with preventing parents from forcing abortions and violates basic human rights.

Word Count: 400

[1] Willard Cates, Jr., et al, "Mortality from Abortion and Childbirth: Are the Statistics Biased?" Journal of the American Medical Association, Vol. 28, No.2 (July 9, 1982), p. 196.
[2] Linda A. Bartlett, MD, MHSc, et al, Risk Factors for Legal Induced Abortion–Related Mortality in the United States Retrieved December 12, 2006 from greenjournal.org. Web site: http://www.greenjournal.org/cgi/content/full/103/4/729
[3] American Medical Association, “Induced Termination of Pregnancy Before and After Roe v. Wade, Trends in the Mortality and Morbidity of Women," Journal of the American Medical Association, Vol. 268, # 22 (December, 1992), Page 3238.
 
So where's this at then? I don't mind extending the deadline for Team A, but I have no idea when it's extended to, and it is a very busy time of year.
 
OK, I came directly to this last post and saw L4S's comment. I also saw (peripherally) a few references, so I'm assuming that Team AAAAMMMMM's argument has been posted. I have not read it and will not read it until we can compose our argument. Unforunately as L4S notes this is a very busy time and I'm not sure how soon I'll get to it. I'd rather not forfeit this round, but if that's the ruling, let me know.

If you do make a ruling on due date or forfeiting, please PM it to me, because I'd rather stay out of this thread to avoid seeing the other team's argument.
 
Team AAMMM,

I will leave it up to you to provide a suitable deadline for Team A.
If you feel necessary, you could take down your arguement and post it again when Team A do.
To have another round go to default would be a shame.
 
It's tough to put a deadline out this time of year. My first inclination is to just say "whenever Duke is finished", but we might be waiting a while if that happens. Also, I don't want to be working on the rebuttle over Christmas or New Year's. Just about any way I look at it judging won't be finished (or probably even get started) until '07.

Live4Speed? Kennythebomb? What do you guys think?
 
Ok, I sent a PM to Duke before just after Christmas asking him to make an entry whenever he found time.

Since there's been no reply, this round is gonna have to be a pass.
Good news however, next round is the final!
 
It might be worth messaging all parties before you announce the next round so that everyone is prepared and a start time negotiated for those that might be busy. Would be nice for the final round to actually be won by someone because they made a good argument rather than winning by default and it would give us judges something to do.
 
OK, guys, I'm really sorry. I've been incredibly busy and just haven't been able to scrape together the brain cells to put together a carefully researched opening statement for this.

Rather than default on our responsibility I stole half an hour and banged out the following. 400 words exactly, and I still have never read either Team AAMM's opening statement or any of danoff's long thread on this subject. This is straight off the cuff - I'd rather lose honestly than simply withdraw, so I hope you'll consider such a late entry acceptable. Everyone's been exceptionally patient.

********************

Underage mothers should be required to have parental consent before receiving an abortion. Minors are prohibited from voting, drinking alcohol, and enlisting in the military because these actions are not to be taken lightly. Aborting a pregnancy, which has been argued as equivalent to taking a human life, requires even more mature and careful consideration. School and legal records are routinely shared with parents; rights of privacy must not deny a parent access to critical information concerning their child’s health and safety.

In all but the most permissive families, sexually active teens will feel enormous pressure towards secrecy. A pregnancy is undeniable proof of intercourse, and there is limited time between conception and when the girl’s condition becomes obvious. With these twin imperatives foremost in mind, a young girl will find it impossible to make a careful decision. By becoming pregnant at all she has shown some inability to consider the consequences of life-changing decisions. Even if all precautions were taken, the panic of discovering an accidental pregnancy can override even an exceptionally rational teenager’s decision process. Emotions will be driving her reactions. Therefore, it is critically important that the adolescent’s parent(s) be made aware of the situation in order to help guide her.

The vast majority of teenage girls facing a possible abortion will also have severely limited resources with which to secure a safe, hygienic, and emotionally sensitive procedure. From researching the clinics and paying for the abortion, to simply getting to and from the facility for pre-counseling and the operation, the tasks involved will be daunting if not impossible for an unsupported teenage girl. Particularly in inner-city or rural areas, gaining access to a professional clinic with a full cadre of medical and psychological assistance will be extremely difficult. Young girls are also unlikely to be aware of social services support that is available. Bureaucracy can be difficult for adults to navigate – again, it is critical that the adolescent has an informed, experienced parent to assist.

Certainly few parents will be pleased to learn their adolescent daughter is pregnant, and some may react strongly. However, as the father of a teenage girl myself, the desire to protect and care for my own child far outweighs any anger or disappointment I may feel. Avoiding a potentially bad initial reaction is no excuse for allowing a pregnant teen to lose the opportunity for her parents’ emotional and physical support.
 
Well, since I've already named AAMMM as the winners, it should really be there decision as to whether to continue this round.

Until a decision is reached (and posted please), I will postpone the final round again.
 
danoff PMed me saying he didn't mind, but requesting a new topic for the final round so that Team F (or E, whoever) doesn't have all the extra time to work on their initial argument.

I'll stand by you and danoff's decision. If it's simply too much of a pain to delay the last round, I can certainly accept that.
 
Righty oh, I'll PM the judges, and we'll have this show back on the road.

As per usual, you have 4 days in which to form a rebuttle with you team.
Your time begins now, and will be due on Wednesday the 14th on February.
 
I got confirmation from Live4speed that it's ok. Still haven't heard from Kennythebomb, but I'd say we're officially alright with finishing up round 6. We'll have a rebuttle ready by the valentine's day deadline.
 
Danoff
I got confirmation from Live4speed that it's ok. Still haven't heard from Kennythebomb, but I'd say we're officially alright with finishing up round 6. We'll have a rebuttle ready by the valentine's day deadline.
Click to expand...

Oh, I was confused by Bullet's posts that were all about postponing stuff, so I assumed that we were waiting for an entirely new topic. Sorry about not replying. Do whatever you two feel is right.
 
Team AAMMM Rebuttle ​


Team A
Minors are prohibited from voting, drinking alcohol, and enlisting in the military because these actions are not to be taken lightly. Aborting a pregnancy, which has been argued as equivalent to taking a human life, requires even more mature and careful consideration.
Click to expand...

If abortion is “equivalent to taking a human life”, it should be illegal and this discussion shouldn’t exist. However, abortion is a serious decision, but so is not having an abortion. Parents shouldn’t be allowed to force this decision either way upon their child.

Minors can’t vote or join the military regardless of parental consent, so the presented analogy misses the mark. A more parallel analogy would be allowing parents to force their child to join the military against her wishes.

Team A
School and legal records are routinely shared with parents; rights of privacy must not deny a parent access to critical information concerning their child’s health and safety.
Click to expand...

Whether parents can force their child to give birth has nothing to do with access to “information concerning their child’s health”. What is at issue is only whether the teen has a choice.

Team A
In all but the most permissive families, sexually active teens will feel enormous pressure towards secrecy. A pregnancy is undeniable proof of intercourse, and there is limited time between conception and when the girl’s condition becomes obvious. With these twin imperatives foremost in mind, a young girl will find it impossible to make a careful decision. By becoming pregnant at all she has shown some inability to consider the consequences of life-changing decisions. Even if all precautions were taken, the panic of discovering an accidental pregnancy can override even an exceptionally rational teenager’s decision process. Emotions will be driving her reactions. Therefore, it is critically important that the adolescent’s parent(s) be made aware of the situation in order to help guide her.
Click to expand...

Again, whether notification is required is a separate issue.

Team A
The vast majority of teenage girls facing a possible abortion will also have severely limited resources with which to secure a safe, hygienic, and emotionally sensitive procedure. From researching the clinics and paying for the abortion, to simply getting to and from the facility for pre-counseling and the operation, the tasks involved will be daunting if not impossible for an unsupported teenage girl. Particularly in inner-city or rural areas, gaining access to a professional clinic with a full cadre of medical and psychological assistance will be extremely difficult. Young girls are also unlikely to be aware of social services support that is available. Bureaucracy can be difficult for adults to navigate – again, it is critical that the adolescent has an informed, experienced parent to assist.

Certainly few parents will be pleased to learn their adolescent daughter is pregnant, and some may react strongly. However, as the father of a teenage girl myself, the desire to protect and care for my own child far outweighs any anger or disappointment I may feel. Avoiding a potentially bad initial reaction is no excuse for allowing a pregnant teen to lose the opportunity for her parents’ emotional and physical support.
Click to expand...

Though requiring parental consent may effectively deter voluntary notification, consent and notification are legally distinct and must not be confused.
Arguments for notification are moot here because the topic is consent, and notification does not imply consent.

However, requiring consent does increase risk by delaying abortion[1], forcing birth[1-3], or encouraging illegal abortion. It also twists the parental duty of protecting the child’s rights into the ability to override those rights and effectively abuse their child.


Word Count: 199

[1] Willard Cates, Jr., et al, "Mortality from Abortion and Childbirth: Are the Statistics Biased?" Journal of the American Medical Association, Vol. 28, No.2 (July 9, 1982), p. 196.
[2] Linda A. Bartlett, MD, MHSc, et al, Risk Factors for Legal Induced Abortion–Related Mortality in the United States Retrieved December 12, 2006 from greenjournal.org. Web site: http://www.greenjournal.org/cgi/content/full/103/4/729
[3] American Medical Association, “Induced Termination of Pregnancy Before and After Roe v. Wade, Trends in the Mortality and Morbidity of Women," Journal of the American Medical Association, Vol. 268, # 22 (December, 1992), Page 3238.
 

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