60GB or 80GB?

  • Thread starter Kent
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-> I highly recommend the 60GB over the 80GB anyday and I'm glad I got the 60GB 'on time' before the 80GB came out.

-> The 60GB has full backward capabilities compared to the 80GB on which has selective games only. The older version has the PS2's emotion engine in which that is priceless to old school gamers like me. ;)

-> HDD memory on the 60GB is not much of a problem. If you planning on upgrading the HDD like I'll be doing to 250GB, plus I'll leave the Sixaxis on the side as a spare and get the DS3 along with the G25 since I already have a 56in. HDTV and my best friend is eyeing for a 7.1 w/ THX sound system. I think its the best combination! :mischievous:
 
I've never undersood why a controller that is light weight is a bad thing.
I concur. I currently have a DS2 with the rumble motors ripped out (which is a very funny story in itself), and I find the lightness of the Dual Shockless 2 is pretty refreshing, once you get used to it. I still use my DS2 with rumble motors more, but that is simply because I play more games that are benefit because of rumble than games that aren't.

Back on topic, you really can't go wrong either way. I would stay away from the 40gb model, but otherwise they are both good in their own way. Beware about GTA4 problems with the 60gb model, though.
 
I concur. I currently have a DS2 with the rumble motors ripped out (which is a very funny story in itself), and I find the lightness of the Dual Shockless 2 is pretty refreshing, once you get used to it. I still use my DS2 with rumble motors more, but that is simply because I play more games that are benefit because of rumble than games that aren't.

Back on topic, you really can't go wrong either way. I would stay away from the 40gb model, but otherwise they are both good in their own way. Beware about GTA4 problems with the 60gb model, though.

Why would the 60gig machine have troules with the game that the 80 gig does not? It doesn't make sense. I'm not calling you a liar, I am just curious what would cause the 60 gig to have problems over the 80 gigger.
 
If you already have a PS2, why would BC be an issue? Having 2 consoles could be a negative in terms of space & clutter, but it could also be a positive in giving you a second console location eg. my kids play "American Idol" on PS2 in one room while I'm on GT5P in another room.

I've heard that PS2 games look worse on PS3, not better. I don't know if this is true?
 
If you already have a PS2, why would BC be an issue? Having 2 consoles could be a negative in terms of space & clutter, but it could also be a positive in giving you a second console location eg. my kids play "American Idol" on PS2 in one room while I'm on GT5P in another room.

Yeah, having yet another console connected does take up extra space and create more clutter. But there are other benefits to playing PS2 games on the PS3, such as wireless controllers, virtual memory cards, upscaling to HD resolutions.

I would love to move my PS2 out to the loungeroom for my sisters to use, or give it to my father who lives elsewhere, but I need it because I have the smelly 40GB PS3.

I've heard that PS2 games look worse on PS3, not better. I don't know if this is true?

If playing PS2 games on an NTSC (Japan, America, etc) 60GB or 20GB PS3, which contain both the PS2 CPU (a.k.a Emotion Engine) and GPU (a.k.a Graphics Synthesizer), you're essentially using a PS2 so compatibility is almost perfect and games look no worse, if you're playing on a SDTV. I have no experience with how well the PS3 upscales to HDTV resolutions.

Now, this is where the geniuses at Sony start to make things confusing. The PAL territory (Europe, AU, NZ) 60GB PS3 AND the 80GB American PS3 contain only the PS2 GPU, while the CPU is emulated with software. This is the root cause of all PS2 games compatibility problems you may have heard about. For instance, some cutscenes in Final Fantasy XII are very glitchy. Although overall it's not as bad as it's often made out to be.

All PS3 models, from every territory, play PS1 games entirely through emulation. So many times I've explained to friends that my PS3 can play PS3 and PS1 games, but not PS2 games and received a puzzled look back from them.

At the moment, 60GB PS3s are selling for over $1000 dollars on eBay Australia, more than the original RRP! I'm saving up to buy one from there, unless I can aquire one some other way, through a trade or something. Call me crazy, but I think it's worth it!

Sorry for the rambling post. But I could talk for weeks about this. :(
 
At the moment, 60GB PS3s are selling for over $1000 dollars on eBay Australia, more than the original RRP! I'm saving up to buy one from there, unless I can aquire one some other way, through a trade or something. Call me crazy, but I think it's worth it!
What do you mean, $1000 on eBay Australia? Is this true?
I'm selling mine for € 550 and it has been hardly used. It's a PAL 60gig version. Bought it at the end of september 2007.
 
-> I highly recommend the 60GB over the 80GB anyday and I'm glad I got the 60GB 'on time' before the 80GB came out.

-> The 60GB has full backward capabilities compared to the 80GB on which has selective games only. The older version has the PS2's emotion engine in which that is priceless to old school gamers like me. ;)

-> HDD memory on the 60GB is not much of a problem. If you planning on upgrading the HDD like I'll be doing to 250GB, plus I'll leave the Sixaxis on the side as a spare and get the DS3 along with the G25 since I already have a 56in. HDTV and my best friend is eyeing for a 7.1 w/ THX sound system. I think its the best combination! :mischievous:

+1

I am glad I got an "original" 60 GB system before Sony starting changing this and that, I guess my main reason for wanting it was that it was the console as it was designed to be, fresh off the drawing board...

I have a thing for original stuff like I bought a JPN PS2 launch day in Japan.

Having the EE GS on board just makes it feel like your getting more for your money... I don't really have a need for it as I have 2 working PS2's.

As they are no longer available anymore I guess going for the 80 GB is the best option because you get all the full features minus the EE GS.

Even though the 60 may not have the latest cooler running cells I prefer it because one can usually assume manufacturers put the most effort in to the first batches of consoles to impress customers and the industry. For example by the end of the fat PS2's life they were being made out of spagetti!

Robin
 
What do you mean, $1000 on eBay Australia? Is this true?

Yeah, plain old 60GB PS3s go for $1000, sometimes more if they're still brand new. If they come with extra stuff, like games, it gets insane: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130223506536

I'm selling mine for € 550 and it has been hardly used. It's a PAL 60gig version. Bought it at the end of september 2007.

€ 550 is about $1,100 here, so about the same price.

I am glad I got an "original" 60 GB system before Sony starting changing this and that, I guess my main reason for wanting it was that it was the console as it was designed to be, fresh off the drawing board...

That's a good way to describe it. :) For me, I really like the idea of having 1 machine that can play 3 generations of great games.
 
BTW, do you know if it works well?

Apparently the Wi-Fi is very good... along as you don't have a moody router! :sly:

I have it hard wired... what colour does the wi fi light on the console light up as? :lol:

Robin
 
I have it hard wired... what colour does the wi fi light on the console light up as? :lol:

Green.

As for the original question go for the 80GB! It does everything the 60GB one can, and had more HDD space.

The only difference is that US/JPN 60GB consoles have the Emotion Engine & Graphics Synthesiser in them to do backward compatability with PS2 games. However the 80GB version uses software emulation. So the 80GB version does not support as many PS2 games as the US/JPN 60GB consoles, but thats it! I have a UK 60GB console which also uses emulation (just like the 80GB) and it plays most PS2 games just fine.

As for 40GB it has 2 USB ports instead of 4, no memory card readers and no PS2 backward compatability, BUT I think I read that it will still play PS1 games, because that controlled in a different part of the machine from PS2 emulation.

80GB IMO!
 
The only difference is that US/JPN 60GB consoles have the Emotion Engine & Graphics Synthesiser in them to do backward compatability with PS2 games. However the 80GB version uses software emulation. So the 80GB version does not support as many PS2 games as the US/JPN 60GB consoles, but thats it! I have a UK 60GB console which also uses emulation (just like the 80GB) and it plays most PS2 games just fine.

Remember though, the EU 60GB and US 80GB do not play PS2 games entirely through software emulation, as I explained before, they still have one piece of PS2 hardware inside, the Graphics Synthesizer.

BUT I think I read that it will still play PS1 games, because that controlled in a different part of the machine from PS2 emulation.

Yeah, also as I said before, ALL PS3 models will play PS1 games. PS1 game compatibility is achieved entirely through software emulation.

If you're in an NTSC region (e.g. America, Canada, Japan) and you can find one, the 60GB PS3 is definitely the one to go for. The only thing it lacks compared to the 80GB is 20GB in HDD space but this is made up for with essentially perfect PS2 BC. Besides, if the amount of games requiring installation to the HDD continues to increase the extra 20GB won't go very far.

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@everyone: Some more general thoughts of mine - please don't read if you're not interested in the whole PS2 BC discussion. I don't want to waste your time.

As mentioned earlier, PS1 compatibility is achieved through software emulation on the PS3. (If someone can confirm, or disprove this, please do so!) This makes sense because PS1 hardware went out of production a while ago.

What doesn't make sense was Sony's method of enabling the PS3 to play PS2 games. In 2005, the slimline PS2s began shipping with a unified EE (Emotion Engine) & GS (Graphics Synthesizer) chip, this was used in the first batch of PS3s destined for Japan and America, as you can see here (left most large chip).

Then for the launch of the PS3 in Europe and Oceania in 2007, they decided to drop this solution in favour of a part hardware\part software solution, whereby the EE+GS chip from the original model was replaced with a new GS chip. See this page for more detailed information. I guess Sony's reason for doing this is to save money and reduce complexity.

But wait... that'd mean Sony were thinking about themselves, not customers... that can be right... can it? ;)

In my view, there are two ways for Sony to get themselves out of this mess.

The first way, most friendly to current customers, is to spend the resources developing full software emulation for PS2 games. I understand that this is no walk in the park, however the PCSX2 team are doing a mighty fine job of it and they are being forced to reverse engineer the hardware, Sony of course have access to everything they need to know.

Once this is completed, 40GB owners would be able to play PS2 games and the part hardware\part software approach to PS2 BC used in the PAL 60GB and NTSC 80GB consoles could be replaced by this entirely software based solution, while leaving the NTSC 20GB and 60GB consoles with their hardware solution. That would still leave Sony with just one PS2 BC method to maintain because the hardware solution is pretty much perfect as mentioned before. I'd be willing to pay $50 to $100 AUD for this.

The second way, would be to start using the unified EE + GS chip again in the next PS3 hardware iteration to provide PS2 BC. It is inevitable that a new SKU is coming, when is the only question. Recently, third generation PS3 heatsinks were displayed at Techno-Frontier 2008. Note that the third generation heatsinks are designed to support a power consumption of 130-140W, less than the 160W for the second generation and much less than the 200W for the first generation. As the original poster here mentions, the drop in power consumption could mean a 65nm RSX chip is on the way. It is my opinion that Sony could use this development to launch a new SKU to replace the 80GB PS3 as the top of line model. A 65nm Cell and RSX, smaller & lighter heatsinks, 120-160GB HDD and the unified EE + GS chip to provide PS2 BC and shut whiners like me up. :) That would be my ideal PS3 and I would sell my 40GB PS3 to buy one immediately.

For those unaware, the NTSC 60GB, 20GB, 80GB and the PAL 60GB all had Cell (PS3 CPU) and RSX (PS3 GPU) chips manufactured at 90nm. The 40GB models still have a 90nm RSX, but the Cell is now at 65nm, thus explaining the drop in power consumption from 200W to 160W.

Again, sorry for the long post. :)
 
It was planned for PS3's to have the EE GS in all models but after some cost cutting measures were employed Sony dropped them and then used emulation... I guess they realised people were more concerned about the price than BC.

Its like things that they dropped on the PS2 such as the i-link port and PCI Card slot...if they had proved popular and could have been done cheaper they wouldnt have been dropped.

The 20 and 60GB US and JPN models were the only "as designed off the drawing board" models... after that some things where dropped and other improvements such as the 65nm process were added.

Didnt the PS2 have the entire PS1 chipest onboard and it was also in the early PS3's? ..... if so that means the 60GB has all of Sonys console history in one case! :lol:

Robin
 
Yeah, also as I said before, ALL PS3 models will play PS1 games.
Didn't see your post, couldn't be assed reading 3 pages of posts.
Actually, you are assed(?) to make an effort to read through posts to be sure you aren't simply repeating what has already been said in the same thread, and even mentioned several times already... especially when there are less than 50 posts in this thread, and pretty much everything was covered in the first page... even if you have your Thread Display Options set to display only 20 posts per page.

BTW: If you don't like having to click on multiple pages, I suggest you go to your Edit Options menu and change your Thread Display Options to display 100 posts per page instead of just twenty. 👍

To be fair, the same can be said for rpgcyco's quote, as that was already mentioned at the very beginning of this thread in post #4:

all version will play PS1 games

And all of the info rpgcyco posted was either already discussed earlier in the thread, or links provided with even more detailed coverage... not that I'm saying it was wrong for him to post it.

I'm sure I have repeated the same info already covered in a thread more often then I care to recall, but I still try and do my best to search through a thread, especially one as small as this one, to see if the info or question I'm considering posting had already been covered.
 
Actually, you are assed(?) to make an effort to read through posts to be sure you aren't simply repeating what has already been said in the same thread, and even mentioned several times already... especially when there are less than 50 posts in this thread

ACTUALLY I can read and not read what I like! I answered the OP's question, and thats that!
 
ACTUALLY I can read and not read what I like!

Yes, that's true. And, ACTUALLY, you can then find yourself in trouble with the staff for reposting things that have been posted before, if you insist on doing so.
 
It was planned for PS3's to have the EE GS in all models but after some cost cutting measures were employed Sony dropped them and then used emulation... I guess they realised people were more concerned about the price than BC.

Its like things that they dropped on the PS2 such as the i-link port and PCI Card slot...if they had proved popular and could have been done cheaper they wouldnt have been dropped.

Yeah, I know the reason was to drop the price, but I don't completely buy that argument. Pardon the pun. Why did they have to stop selling the 60GB in PAL regions? Why not introduce the 40GB as the cheaper model and continue selling the 60GB or replace it with the 80GB like what happened in the US?

From reading forums threads here and there, particularly the official EU PlayStation forums, most people seem to agree that the 80GB PS3 or some other higher end model will eventually appear in Europe (and therefore Oceania), even though Sony continually says they have no plans for this at the moment.

Didnt the PS2 have the entire PS1 chipest onboard and it was also in the early PS3's? ..... if so that means the 60GB has all of Sonys console history in one case! :lol:

Well, the Input\Output processor for the PS2 was literally the PS1 CPU. I'm pretty sure the PS1 GPU was on the PS2 mainboard as well.

As far as I know, PS1 BC has always been done through software emulation on the PS3. However a friend of mine who was researching this found some information that suggested PS1 BC was achieved on the PS3 using the PS2 BIOS, even on 40GB models.

I will ask him for the link when I see him next, on Tuesday, then I will post it here.

To be fair, the same can be said for H3rmaN's quote, as that was already mentioned at the very beginning of this thread in post #4:

I think you mean -

To be fair, the same can be said for rpgcyco's quote, as that was already mentioned at the very beginning of this thread in post #4:

Anyway, sorry about that. :)

Yes, that's true. And, ACTUALLY, you can then find yourself in trouble with the staff for reposting things that have been posted before, if you insist on doing so.

I'd like to say I didn't mean to start any arguments. Maybe I sounded a little bit arrogant pointing out that everything was said earlier. Also, the second half of my last post was directed to everyone in general. I wasn't just trying to talk H3rmaN's ear off. ;) I've edited my post to reflect this.
 
Yeah, I know the reason was to drop the price, but I don't completely buy that argument. Pardon the pun. Why did they have to stop selling the 60GB in PAL regions? Why not introduce the 40GB as the cheaper model and continue selling the 60GB or replace it with the 80GB like what happened in the US?

From reading forums threads here and there, particularly the official EU PlayStation forums, most people seem to agree that the 80GB PS3 or some other higher end model will eventually appear in Europe (and therefore Oceania), even though Sony continually says they have no plans for this at the moment.

They removed the 60GB and replaced it with the 80GB as a ploy to make people buy the more expensive model... Sony UK even openly admitted it!

With the 60GB and 40GB around people were buying the 60GB because it offered BC and the 40GB didnt so Sony thought hey! people will pay more for BC (plus the other stuff like the card slots) so they canned the 60GB replaced it with the 80GB for a slightly higher price and people had no choice if they wanted to play their PS2 games.... at this point it was cheaper for sony to produce the 80GB than the 60 (they removed lots of stuff!) making there margin of profit greater..

Basically 80GB would make them more money than the 60GB because it was cheaper for them and more expensive (slightly plus you got motorstorm) for a consumer that had no choice! You gotta love huge corporations! :sly:

Robin

Well, the Input\Output processor for the PS2 was literally the PS1 CPU. I'm pretty sure the PS1 GPU was on the PS2 mainboard as well.

As far as I know, PS1 BC has always been done through software emulation on the PS3. However a friend of mine who was researching this found some information that suggested PS1 BC was achieved on the PS3 using the PS2 BIOS, even on 40GB models.

I will ask him for the link when I see him next, on Tuesday, then I will post it here.

I think the PS1 chip is built straight into the PS2's EE and the JPN/US 60GB have the unified EEGS with the PS1 chip obviously still embedded.. but I may be wrong.. I want to know as I have a HK 60GB.

Robin
 
They removed the 60GB and replaced it with the 80GB as a ploy to make people buy the more expensive model... Sony UK even openly admitted it!

With the 60GB and 40GB around people were buying the 60GB because it offered BC and the 40GB didnt so Sony thought hey! people will pay more for BC (plus the other stuff like the card slots) so they canned the 60GB replaced it with the 80GB for a slightly higher price and people had no choice if they wanted to play their PS2 games.... at this point it was cheaper for sony to produce the 80GB than the 60 (they removed lots of stuff!) making there margin of profit greater..

Basically 80GB would make them more money than the 60GB because it was cheaper for them and more expensive (slightly plus you got motorstorm) for a consumer that had no choice! You gotta love huge corporations! :sly:

Actually, IIRC, since the 80GB is cheaper to make, Sony loses less money creating it, so if you think about it, be glad that it costs more, because it puts more money towards them turning a profit, therefore keeping the PS3 in production, making you able to have more friends to play with.

From,
Chris.
 
They removed the 60GB and replaced it with the 80GB as a ploy to make people buy the more expensive model... Sony UK even openly admitted it!

I'm a little confused. Why were Sony UK commenting on something only happening in the US market?

With the 60GB and 40GB around people were buying the 60GB because it offered BC and the 40GB didnt so Sony thought hey! people will pay more for BC (plus the other stuff like the card slots) so they canned the 60GB replaced it with the 80GB for a slightly higher price and people had no choice if they wanted to play their PS2 games.... at this point it was cheaper for sony to produce the 80GB than the 60 (they removed lots of stuff!) making there margin of profit greater..

Basically 80GB would make them more money than the 60GB because it was cheaper for them and more expensive (slightly plus you got motorstorm) for a consumer that had no choice! You gotta love huge corporations! :sly:

I agree with you that this is true for the US. As we know, the 80GB introduced in the US is the same as the 60GB from EU, in terms of not having the EE+GS chip. This meant the motherboard was cheaper to produce and the cost price between a 60GB and 80GB HDD is very very small. So yeah, they were probably making more money with the 80GB.

For the EU market however, they obviously thought there was no point replacing the 60GB with the 80GB and stuck soley with the 40GB.

I think the PS1 chip is built straight into the PS2's EE and the JPN/US 60GB have the unified EEGS with the PS1 chip obviously still embedded.. but I may be wrong.. I want to know as I have a HK 60GB.

You're right about the US\JPN 60GB (and 20GB) having the unified EE+GS chip, I made a mistake in my last post. Sorry about that. I have edited my post to correct it.

I haven't found any information that suggests the PS1 chip is somehow integrated with the EE+GS chip. If it were the case, PS1 games would not work on the 40GB as it doesn't have the EE+GS as you know, but PS1 games do work.

You live in the UK right? But you have a HK (Hong Kong) PS3, so it won't play PAL PS2 or PS1 games as they're still region locked?
 
I'm a little confused. Why were Sony UK commenting on something only happening in the US market?

Ive just checked and I could have sworn the UK had 80GB PS3's... I guess I was wrong... Then what was the thing with the Motorstorm pack that was released in the UK?... Now im confused! I know though that Sony did comment on this move and maybe it was Phil Harrison which it why I thought it was Sony UK but he must have been talking about the US.

I really didnt know you can't get an 80GB here! OK everything I said in the previous post was to do with the US 60 and 40.. not the UK! :ouch:

I agree with you that this is true for the US. As we know, the 80GB introduced in the US is the same as the 60GB from EU, in terms of not having the EE+GS chip. This meant the motherboard was cheaper to produce and the cost price between a 60GB and 80GB HDD is very very small. So yeah, they were probably making more money with the 80GB.

For the EU market however, they obviously thought there was no point replacing the 60GB with the 80GB and stuck soley with the 40GB.

Yeah, because the console is stupidly expensive here as it was so seeing that the 60's wernt selling they went to the 40's. But it leaves the people wanting the full show paying stupid prices on ebay!.

You're right about the US\JPN 60GB (and 20GB) having the unified EE+GS chip, I made a mistake in my last post. Sorry about that. I have edited my post to reflect to correct it.

I haven't found any information that suggests the PS1 chip is somehow integrated with the EE+GS chip. If it were the case, PS1 games would not work on the 40GB as it doesn't have the EE+GS as you know, but PS1 games do work.

You live in the UK right? But you have a HK (Hong Kong) PS3, so it won't play PAL PS2 or PS1 games as they're still region locked?

hmmm... maybe PS1 is emulated on the 40 and done via hardware on the US/JPN 60.... just like the PS2 games. Or both are emulation for PS1.

Yeah Im in the UK with a HK PS3.. it wont play PS1 or 2 games that arnt NTSCJ but I have 2 PS2's (NTSCJ and PAL) which cover all the bases! :sly:

Robin
 
Yeah, because the console is stupidly expensive here as it was so seeing that the 60's wernt selling they went to the 40's. But it leaves the people wanting the full show paying stupid prices on ebay!.

Exactly. I hope at the very least, when the cost of manufacture goes down even more, they will re-introduce a high end model for EU customers.

hmmm... maybe PS1 is emulated on the 40 and done via hardware on the US/JPN 60.... just like the PS2 games. Or both are emulation for PS1.

If I ever find out for certain, I will post it here. :)

Yeah Im in the UK with a HK PS3.. it wont play PS1 or 2 games that arnt NTSCJ but I have 2 PS2's (NTSCJ and PAL) which cover all the bases! :sly:

Oh ok, that explains it. :) I have only 1 PS2, an old v4 machine (SCPH-30002, IIRC) it's getting pretty clanky, so I might replace it with one from the new SCPH-90000 series, as they are out in Australia now.
 
If I ever find out for certain, I will post it here. :)

Yeah please do!

Oh ok, that explains it. :) I have only 1 PS2, an old v4 machine (SCPH-30002, IIRC) it's getting pretty clanky, so I might replace it with one from the new SCPH-90000 series, as they are out in Australia now.

My machines are a SCPH-10000 (the original) bought on Japanese launch day (now nearly 9 years old!) and a SCPH-35003 PAL model... Both are fine because I open them up and clean them now and then... not one DRE!

My PS3 is a CECHA12.

Robin
 
Yes, that's true. And, ACTUALLY, you can then find yourself in trouble with the staff for reposting things that have been posted before, if you insist on doing so.

Can I just ask WHY?! Im a member of several different forums and this is the ONLY one that demands you must read all posts to enure you are not repeating something that was written 3 or 4 pages ago.

If its to do with server bandwidth then dont the premium members and ads pay for that??

I'm a Premium member on another forum I use, and even before I was, not once did someone complain because I posted something in a thead that had been posted before.
 
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