Blu-ray vs. HD DVD Discussion Thread
- Thread starter a6m5
- 474 comments
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- 7,956
- BradleyH131
I editted because, he's not really an idiot, but it's a stupid comment to make. HDMI and DisplayPort have not enough differences to call one or the other the "Connector of the Future", and I don't know where he's coming from with "Limited in resolution".
But I guess it just means Macs from now on won't have HDMI ports?
But I guess it just means Macs from now on won't have HDMI ports?
V1P3R
(Banned)
- 6,310
2nd Robin's comment, hilarious. I think that should go on the "What were they thinking wall" too. lol
- 26,628
- OREGON
- a6m5zero
Matrix trilogy came out today..... BestBuy has it for $75. Actually, it's trilogy + Animatrix + Bonus discs.
$75 sounded like a real good deal, but I didn't buy it. I figure that when I start buying Blu-ray DVDs, each movies will be around 20 bucks, and I don't care about any extra features or Animatrix.
$75 sounded like a real good deal, but I didn't buy it. I figure that when I start buying Blu-ray DVDs, each movies will be around 20 bucks, and I don't care about any extra features or Animatrix.
- 15,855
- QLD, Australia
- Small_Fryz
got iron man on blu-ray and also have the pirates trilogy... now just waiting to get my hands on transformers, man that will look awesome on my Bravia!
Some people think blu-ray wont gain advantage and will be taken over by movies on usb keys...
Some people think blu-ray wont gain advantage and will be taken over by movies on usb keys...
- 24,553
- Frankfort, KY
- GTP_FoolKiller
- FoolKiller1979
Regarding the Ultimate Matrix pack: I will wait for individual films on Blu-Ray. I already have Animatrix and don't feel the need to pay extra for bonus material. Plus, I am still not sold on the quality of the second and third movies.
In the case of the PS Store, I want to be able to redownload (without calling Sony) and not risk losing it when I switch hard drives.
I had hope for digital downloads because they should be more convenient, but they are actually less convenient than a disc.
And before someone makes a comment: No, I will not use torrents or any form of piracy.
After purchasing two movies from the PS store I can now say that I have no intention of buying digital download movies until they loosen the DRM. I want to be able to move it between systems. I would like to show friends a movie when I go to their house, not require them to come to my house every time.
In the case of the PS Store, I want to be able to redownload (without calling Sony) and not risk losing it when I switch hard drives.
I had hope for digital downloads because they should be more convenient, but they are actually less convenient than a disc.
And before someone makes a comment: No, I will not use torrents or any form of piracy.
- 7,898
- Horbury, West Yorkshire
- GTP_Sprite
I've got Iron Man and it is an awesome picture but Transformers Looks just as good if not better.
Also USB and DD movies wont become as big as disk till either USB become cheap enough to store large files AKA 25 to 50GB Comparable to BD or higher compared to Super Hi Vision, and DD needs quick connections, I would rather nip out to the rental store and get a disk that I can watch on any system than waiting (on my current connection) 48 hours and 54 minutes for 50GB download and thats with a solid connection and no interruptions. I mean a 16GB USB drive is £18 so triple that and a bit more to fit a BD size encode and its costing a fortune for a film.
Disk's are cheap to make and especially for cost to storage they are very good. I cant see DD becoming huge and taking over stores and disk until net speeds become fast enough to allow for a download of 50GB or more in 10 minutes or under.
Ive got over 60 Blue-Ray movies and they all vary in quality. One film that had my Jaw a gape was the Platinum Edition of Sleeping Beauty, this really shows what a bit of hard work and dedication can do, the film looks stunning, its hard to believe that this film is 50 years old.
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- 35,429
- Downtown North Dakota
- Cy-Fi
Give this a look.Now, how about the bad?
Apparently the Fifth Element Remastered Blu-Ray isn't too bad.
- 7,898
- Horbury, West Yorkshire
- GTP_Sprite
Now, how about the bad?
Unfortunately there are a lot of lack luster transfers. But saying that most I've seen all trounce there DVD counterpart. I did start to catalogue all my BD's and give them a rundown of sound and picture quality in a thread here on GTP but since nobody read it or commented on it I decided to just leave it. You have to be objective when it comes to HD transfers of disks, are you comparing them to Reference quality of other HD content or the DVD (SD) transfer, because if you do the latter then all BD look better than the DVD version (apart from one).
If you compare all movies to other BD versions then nothing can stand up to a good reference disk, like Cars or Ratatouille for Animation, or Harry Potter & the order of the phoenix or Iron Man. Plus has it has been show in the post above BD pictures can be improved if the studio wants to, again Disney seem to be the only company who time and time again put effort into creating high quality disks, I have no qualms about buying a Disney BD movie because I know I wont be let down with the quality. Now one film that I was very disappointed with was Evil Dead 2, this film was poor, I might as well have the DVD version because the BD version is so bad, granted the source is going to be poor because of the low budget of the movie and also all the filters used and poor equipment used, this will have contributed to such a bad picture but also the sound is so bad at times I had to turn down the volume because I just couldn't stand the sounds.
Edit: - Digital Copy
Hi guys I've just got another two BD's one of which is "The Happening" by M. Night Shyamalan, the reason I bring this to your attention is that It includes Digital Copy, where by you have a copy of the film compressed to 1GB for either and iPod or iPhone. You have to put in a 16 digit code to unlock it from through your iTunes account and then you have a copy of the film to watch. Im just in the process of using it now, have any of you had the opportunity to try them?
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- 6,009
- Austin, Texas
- D-Nitrate / GTP_DNitrate
Great post.
It's also imperative to understand that what a lot of people think is a bad transfer is actually in the original source material.
I realize fewer people are going to the movies lately, but I can assure you that some films are shot beautifully, and others are utter crap, and no amount of digital wizardry can fix it.
Speaking from someone who is quite familiar with the telecine transfer process, I can assure you that the proverb, "Garbage in is garbage out", is one of the most commonly used terms. It's in this process, and in making digital intermediates of film masters, that one can truly appreciate excellent cinematography.
The reality though is that there are far more bad cinematographers than there are good ones. This is also why digital animated films almost always look spectacularly better than live action... as they are not limited by the abilities of a cinematographer, and thus also not crippled by the limitations of the equipment used.
Perhaps to put it in even more easy to understand examples, even today, with digital photography at a very advanced level, if you take photographs using ten different digital cameras, you are likely going to see ten different results. This happens because of different quality lenses, sensors, circuitry, and settings.
Now that's just with your garden variety over the counter digital cameras... professional motion picture cameras are far far more complicated, and each of these components can play huge roles in the quality of the film captured.
The point I'm making is that even the most talented technicians with the skills and equipment to make the finest film to video transfers possible can't magically turn a film with crappy images into a stunning digital transfer.
"Garbage in is still garbage out".
What they can do is to make an accurate copy of the original source. Beyond that, then it's in the hands of digital artists to try and clean up and fix the problems in most films... but the reality is that is a controversial, and extremely costly process.
Film purists correctly are concerned that most digital restoration projects have ended up removing a substantial amount of the natural film grain, and removed detail that was meant to be in the film.
There are exceptions, and the equipment and skill level of the average digital restorationist is certainly improving.
Bottom line: Based on what I know about how film is captured and the film to video transfer process, and having watched thousands of films and video transfers over far too mny years for me to want to think about, the majority of "poor quality transfers", are in fact very good transfers, but rather it is the film sources themselves that are of poor quality.
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- 7,898
- Horbury, West Yorkshire
- GTP_Sprite
I totally agree, to coin another fraze which is relevent "you can't polish a turd" and this is true with HD content. Most modern movies AKA Iron Man & Transformers use top end equipment, but some choices made by the Director himself or the Director of photography can make or break a scene. But when it comes to older films or 15 years at least Ive seen to truly great HD transferes and you can still see the Source has blemishes and dirt and making sure these dont detract from the overall picture must be a real nightmare for the Director and studio because making a bad choice here can again make or break the HD transfer.
Three films spring to mind Blade Runner, 2001 Space Odyssey and Close Encounters, all have old sources but also rely on a heavy amount of filters and camera tricks, not to mention Blue/Green Screen and SFX in them and all three are top HD transfers because they have been skillfully re-mastered. Don't get me wrong Evil Dead will be true to the original source it came from but I've been so used to studios and especially Directors who are proud of the movies they make to really push the boat out and create something fantastic for the fans.
Goonies and Lostboys both had good looking HD transfers, nothing spectaculare but both tons better than the DVD versions I owned. At the end of the day its if you like what your seeing.
Three films spring to mind Blade Runner, 2001 Space Odyssey and Close Encounters, all have old sources but also rely on a heavy amount of filters and camera tricks, not to mention Blue/Green Screen and SFX in them and all three are top HD transfers because they have been skillfully re-mastered. Don't get me wrong Evil Dead will be true to the original source it came from but I've been so used to studios and especially Directors who are proud of the movies they make to really push the boat out and create something fantastic for the fans.
Goonies and Lostboys both had good looking HD transfers, nothing spectaculare but both tons better than the DVD versions I owned. At the end of the day its if you like what your seeing.
Scaff
Moderator
- 29,734
- He/Him
- ScaffUK
Great post DN, its a topic I have repeatedly covered on a few other forums I post on and has been covered in a few of the AV magazines I read.
Grain is not in itself 'bad', nor is it a sign of a poor transfer. The BD release of Close Encounters is a great example of this, much of the film's is set at night and great use was made of available light, so grain is most certainly present. However it doesn't mask the level of detail and almost perfect expose that was captured. 'Encounters' without grain would not be the same film.
300 is another such example in which grain has been added to both mask the CGI / bluescreen and to add atmosphere to the film, and for me it works very well. The film is pin sharp, but the grain combined with the crushed blacks and deliberate colour cast work.
Based on my current Blu-ray/HD-DVD collection I would have to say that the transfer that I rate as being the best has to be Blade Runner. Given that every single DVD release was terrible in terms of both image and audio quality, the care and expertise that has gone into the BD and HD/DVD versions was stunning. The opening piece is easily classic AV demo material, which is not bad for a film made in 1984.
Regards
Scaff
Grain is not in itself 'bad', nor is it a sign of a poor transfer. The BD release of Close Encounters is a great example of this, much of the film's is set at night and great use was made of available light, so grain is most certainly present. However it doesn't mask the level of detail and almost perfect expose that was captured. 'Encounters' without grain would not be the same film.
300 is another such example in which grain has been added to both mask the CGI / bluescreen and to add atmosphere to the film, and for me it works very well. The film is pin sharp, but the grain combined with the crushed blacks and deliberate colour cast work.
Based on my current Blu-ray/HD-DVD collection I would have to say that the transfer that I rate as being the best has to be Blade Runner. Given that every single DVD release was terrible in terms of both image and audio quality, the care and expertise that has gone into the BD and HD/DVD versions was stunning. The opening piece is easily classic AV demo material, which is not bad for a film made in 1984.
Regards
Scaff
- 24,553
- Frankfort, KY
- GTP_FoolKiller
- FoolKiller1979
Can anyone comment on the Independence Day transfer? I never even upgraded this from VHS and now that the Blu-Ray is out I am looking at it.
Is it worth it or should I just save some money and get the DVD? The reviews I have read seemed kind of middle of the road on it.
Is it worth it or should I just save some money and get the DVD? The reviews I have read seemed kind of middle of the road on it.
- 7,898
- Horbury, West Yorkshire
- GTP_Sprite
In my opinion, if you can get this film cheap, and I mean cheap then I can recomend it. The BD version isn't great.
On another note I'm watching "The Colour Of Magic" on BD and the image is fantastic.
- 26,628
- OREGON
- a6m5zero
Very educational stuff for me, especially the post by D-N. 👍
How about the transfers of films that looked great in theaters, but looks horrible on DVD? Are they rare cases of actual poor transfer, or is it the way the films are projected in theaters? Like they are somehow more forgiving?
P.S. Have you guys seen any Kurosawa films on Blu-ray? Does it make sense to get films that old on Blu-ray? They(Criterion) had to do a lot of restoration, even on standard definition DVDs to make them presentable.
How about the transfers of films that looked great in theaters, but looks horrible on DVD? Are they rare cases of actual poor transfer, or is it the way the films are projected in theaters? Like they are somehow more forgiving?
P.S. Have you guys seen any Kurosawa films on Blu-ray? Does it make sense to get films that old on Blu-ray? They(Criterion) had to do a lot of restoration, even on standard definition DVDs to make them presentable.
- 6,009
- Austin, Texas
- D-Nitrate / GTP_DNitrate
NO mistake about it, there are definitely bad transfers. The thing to keep in mind is that artificial artifacts can and do find there way into most final transfers during any number of the chain of events from when the film was shot to the final transfer to video.
Whether they were caused during the actual filming (due to poor equipment, lighting, and or poor cinematographers, or those caused during post production editing, the creation of a digital intermediate, digital restoration work, and of course the telecine transfer (for film based material at least).
John Lowry, long considered one of the finest digital film restorers out there once properly identified over 300 different types of artificial artifacts that can be found regularly in most film transfers, and he was ble to prove how each one was and can be introduced during the long chain of events that go into making a film and bringing it to digital video.
As far as artifacts that can quickly be blamed on the actual transfer, and not the filming or post production of the film are things like edge enhancement, color banding and posterization, saturation, among others.
First fo all, you have GREAT taste in film directors! Akira Kurosawa is a genius, right up there with Kubrick, Hitchcock, and other masters of their craft.
Now as far as old films on Blu-ray/HD.... In practice, just because a film is old does not immediately determine whether it will look good in 1080p vs 480i/p and of course at much higher bit rates.
In fact there are some films that were shot 40-50 years ago that when the prints were new, were far more detailed and vivid that 99% of what we see today. Tragically, the last film to be shot entirely in 70mm (65mm technically speaking), was Keneth Branaughs epic version of Hamlet back in 1996, and before then very few films were with the exception of the "Golden Years" between 1955 and 1970.
However, most films now and as far back as 75 years ago have been shot on 35mm. Granted, the equipment, filming techniques, and post processing have improved over the years, and of course if the original film negatives were not properly cared for (and most were not), then naturally the quality suffers.
I guess what I'm saying is that you can't assume just because a film is older that it won't look as good as many modern films in HD. The fact is, in some cases where the original film was shot beautifully, and the negatives were well preserved, these films can often look far superior to any modern film on Blu-ray. 👍
BTW: Another great example of a very old film that looks absolutely amazing even on just DVD, is Sergio Leone's masterpiece Once Upon a Time in the West:
Near the beginning of the film, Sergio, who loved to do close ups of his stars, zooms in on Henry Fonda's face... it's unbelievably detailed!
I can't wait for this film to make it onto Blu-ray!
I also had the pleasure of screening the new HD video re-master of Lawrence of Arabia (also shot in 70/65mm), and I can tell you that it's one of the finest HD transfers I've ever seen. 👍
The newly remastered HD edition of Kubrick's 2001: A Space Odyssey is yet another example of an old film (in this case 40 years old), also originally shot entirely in 70/65mm that looks spectacular on Blu-ray!
Speaking of Blu-ray:
Thanks for the heads-up!
I think I'm going to order the following:
- Before the Devil Knows You're Dead
- Pirates of the Caribbean Trilogy
- Meet the Robinsons
- The Polar Express 2-D & 3-D
- Dark City (Director's Cut)
- Terminator 2: Judgment Day
- How the West Was Won
That's 9 Blu-ray films that list for $272 on sale for just $141! 👍
I also pre-ordered the 3-Disc Collectors Edition of Wall-E (+Digital Copy) at Amazon as they have a special going on right now.
While I was there I also pre-ordered this nice little nugget of gold:
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- 26,628
- OREGON
- a6m5zero
Thanks for the info, D-N. Much appreciated. 
I love Kurosawa, especially his earlier works in black&white. I love the directors you named as well. I watch a lot of garbage, but I appreciate the "classics" as well. Don't hate me, but I've never seen your "Once Upon a Time in the West".
I better check it out, even if it's on standard DVD.
P.S. "Dark City", very nice. 👍 I probably need that on Blu-ray as well. One of my favorite DVDs out of hundreds & hundreds of DVDs I own.
I love Kurosawa, especially his earlier works in black&white. I love the directors you named as well. I watch a lot of garbage, but I appreciate the "classics" as well. Don't hate me, but I've never seen your "Once Upon a Time in the West".
I better check it out, even if it's on standard DVD.P.S. "Dark City", very nice. 👍 I probably need that on Blu-ray as well. One of my favorite DVDs out of hundreds & hundreds of DVDs I own.
- 7,956
- BradleyH131
Anyone planning to get Baraka on Blu-Ray? It's the most exceptional movie from a cinematography I've ever seen. Being entirely shot in 70mm, and downscaled to 1080p from 8k source (8192x3428, I guess) chances are it's going to look pretty freaking amazing on-screen too.
Scaff
Moderator
- 29,734
- He/Him
- ScaffUK
You have no idea how happy that news makes me, I love LoA and have had my fingers crossed that they would be giving the film a good clean-up and transfer.
Can't wait for that to get a release 👍
The Blu-ray release of Dark City is excellent, stunning work on the picture quality and an excellent job on the audio as well (great bass in large parts of the film to really test a sub out with).
T2 on the other hand does suffer from being shot on Super 35 and is not the greatest transfer around, but for that kind of price who can argue.
Regards
Scaff
- 6,009
- Austin, Texas
- D-Nitrate / GTP_DNitrate
From the Criterion Collection, the must haves I recommend are of course the Seven Samurai, followed by Rashomon and Yojimbo. However that are so many great early films of his to choose from among Criterion's catalog.
However, in case you have not seen it, one of his later films is a personal favorite of mine, featuring breathtaking cinematography and superb use of color, and that's his version of Shakespeare’s "King Lear", Ran. I simply can't wait to see a properly done 1080p transfer on Blu-ray from Criterion!
Speaking though of spectacular colorful epic films, Criterion is coming out with a newly mastered 1080p transfer of Bernardo Bertolucci's masterpiece, The Last Emperor. I simply can not recommend both the film and this Blu-ray release enough!!! It's astonishing!
I don't hate you... rather I envy you. Because when you do, you'll experience the joy of seeing an amazing film for the first time. Just imagine how you felt when you saw LoA the frst time, or Star Wars, or any of the great films you have seen over the many years. There's nothing like seeing an amazing and memorable film for the very first time. Sure, repeat viewing are always great... but nothing like the first screening! Hurry, go see it and tell me what you thought.Don't hate me, but I've never seen your "Once Upon a Time in the West".
It really is a brilliant piece of film making isn't it! I'm looking forward to seeing it again.
Now I'm really looking forward to seeing this film again! 👍
Agreed... for under $12 it was hard to pass up.
All of these films mentioned recently only re-affirm to me why it is I have such a strong passion for film. 👍
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- 6,073
- Simcoeace
Yes, I've noticed a difference in quality - the most striking film in terms of HD quality I've seen was the 2nd Pirates of the Caribbean movie. But the trouble with Blu-Ray is that most of the films coming out in this format so far have been crappy "blockbuster" movies, which are barely worth seeing anyway IMO. The best film on Blu-Ray I've seen so far:
The amazing Pan's Labyrinth by Guillermo Del Toro.
Films I'd like to see on Blu-Ray:
Kurosawa's Dersu Usala
Malick's Days of Heaven
Altman's McCabe & Mrs. Miller
All films with stunning cinematography.
The amazing Pan's Labyrinth by Guillermo Del Toro.
Films I'd like to see on Blu-Ray:
Kurosawa's Dersu Usala
Malick's Days of Heaven
Altman's McCabe & Mrs. Miller
All films with stunning cinematography.
- 26,628
- OREGON
- a6m5zero
Oh, yeah, I have most of those of standard Criterion. Seven Samurai, I have the original one still, so I would have to get the reissue(3 disc set?), or Blu-ray, if they ever release it. I've seen most Kurosawas, but I've yet to see Dersu Uzala Biggles mentioned.From the Criterion Collection, the must haves I recommend are of course the Seven Samurai, followed by Rashomon and Yojimbo. However that are so many great early films of his to choose from among Criterion's catalog.
However, in case you have not seen it, one of his later films is a personal favorite of mine, featuring breathtaking cinematography and superb use of color, and that's his version of Shakespeares "King Lear", Ran. I simply can't wait to see a properly done 1080p transfer on Blu-ray from Criterion!
Speaking though of spectacular colorful epic films, Criterion is coming out with a newly mastered 1080p transfer of Bernardo Bertolucci's masterpiece, The Last Emperor. I simply can not recommend both the film and this Blu-ray release enough!!! It's astonishing!
My three "personal" favorite Kurosawa films are: "High and Low", "Stray Dog" and "Sanjuro". Yojimbo is a classic, but I really like, probably the lightheartedness & comedy of Sanjuro.
I see the Last Emperor is a Blu-ray release. I don't remember much of the film, as I was too young to really "get it", when I saw it on VHS. I'm sure I'll appreciate it more this time around.
Don't put too much pressure on me.... or the film.I don't hate you... rather I envy you. Because when you do, you'll experience the joy of seeing an amazing film for the first time. Just imagine how you felt when you saw LoA the frst time, or Star Wars, or any of the great films you have seen over the many years. There's nothing like seeing an amazing and memorable film for the very first time. Sure, repeat viewing are always great... but nothing like the first screening! Hurry, go see it and tell me what you thought.
I'll let you know as soon as I see it. 👍
- 24,553
- Frankfort, KY
- GTP_FoolKiller
- FoolKiller1979
The funniest I have ever seen was when watching The Transformers season One DVDs and in the special features they talked about how somewhere between animation and air in the US a hair was on the film and transferred to the on-air master. They also found what appeared to be dandruff.
I know these are not what you are talking about, but it shows that there are even some odd things you wouldn't think of that can do this.
Saw it for $20 today and nearly picked it up. But I was already spending $80 on game stuffs so I passed.
Yeah, I am going to get Planet Earth Complete Collection and Polar Express 3-D for $68.
Wow.
V1P3R
(Banned)
- 6,310
I have a chance to trade some stuff for a 360 HD DVD drive and remote, do you think it's a bad idea? Am I wasting my time? I guess, the only reasons I'd have is so Chronicles of Riddick will be in HD (I like that movie a lot...) And well there are a lot of cheap HD DVD movies at Fry's too.
Scaff
Moderator
- 29,734
- He/Him
- ScaffUK
HD-DVDs are cheap at the moment, but always keep in mind that the only titles available are older ones. That said, importing is totally risk free as all HD-DVDs were region free.
The 360 HD-DVD add-on is however a different issue, they have never got good reviews, with issues over drive noise, image quality (in comparison to stand-alone players) and lack of HD audio support.
Only go for it if you consider it to be a stupidly cheap bargain, particularly as you could get this......
Toshiba HD-E1
...for AU $53 (with four films) and it will be a significantly better player than the 360 add-on.
Hope that helps
Regards
Scaff
The 360 HD-DVD add-on is however a different issue, they have never got good reviews, with issues over drive noise, image quality (in comparison to stand-alone players) and lack of HD audio support.
Only go for it if you consider it to be a stupidly cheap bargain, particularly as you could get this......
Toshiba HD-E1
...for AU $53 (with four films) and it will be a significantly better player than the 360 add-on.
Hope that helps
Regards
Scaff
V1P3R
(Banned)
- 6,310
I kinda figured the add-on wouldn't be that great since it is by M$ the same people that brought us a guarantee RROD 360, but I guess now that you mention it if there is no firmware support that's an issue then I'd rather not bother. Video quality would be an issue for me but the audio part isn't as big of a problem to me. I don't know if my trade would be considered a "stupidly cheap bargain" either.
Anyway, Thanks for the input.
Anyway, Thanks for the input.
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