Blu-ray vs. HD DVD Discussion Thread

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I'm going with....


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I kinda figured the add-on wouldn't be that great since it is by M$ the same people that brought us a guarantee RROD 360, but I guess now that you mention it if there is no firmware support that's an issue then I'd rather not bother. Video quality would be an issue for me but the audio part isn't as big of a problem to me. I don't know if my trade would be considered a "stupidly cheap bargain" either.

Anyway, Thanks for the input.

Personally I would not touch a 360 HD-DVD add on, however the HD-DVD player I linked to is a bargain, just worked it out at the current exchange rate, and that's £22.51 :).

Now that I would class as a stupidly cheap bargain, hell even if you mainly used it as an up-scaler for DVD its cheap (Toshiba make some of the best up-scalers around - its what I use my HD-EP30 for now) add in 4 films and its a bargain.


Regards

Scaff
 
Hmm... well, I could just not buy anything and hope... keep on hoping... they release Riddick on Blu Ray. I have a PS3 already. I don't really want to buy a HD-DVD player just for potentially one movie. I don't do that FAIL of a site that is eBay anymore too.
 
People are upset about not having access to Vin Diesel in HD? Wonders will never cease.
 
People are upset about not having access to Vin Diesel in HD? Wonders will never cease.
I like Pitch Black and Chronicles is a guilty pleasure. I know it isn't great, but for some reason I enjoy it.
 
Saw it for $20 today and nearly picked it up. But I was already spending $80 on game stuffs so I passed.

I've got 2001: A Space Odyssey on Blu-ray and it is great - although I only bought it because it was the only one of my favourite films I didn't have on DVD already...

Yeah, I am going to get Planet Earth Complete Collection
... and I do have this on DVD already, hence I probably won't bother with the Blu-ray version, although I am sorely tempted. It is essential in one form or another, however 👍
 
I've got 2001: A Space Odyssey on Blu-ray and it is great - although I only bought it because it was the only one of my favourite films I didn't have on DVD already...


... and I do have this on DVD already, hence I probably won't bother with the Blu-ray version, although I am sorely tempted. It is essential in one form or another, however 👍
For 2001, I am wanting to read the books again as at this point I barely remember anything from the books or films aside fro HAL and a big black object. I picked up 2010 at a library sale for $1, so now I just need to get my hands on 2001. I remember enjoying the film, but I was so young the last time I saw it that it is no longer fresh in my memory.

I am amazed with both of these Blu-Rays, though. They have both had one copy sitting in Wal*Mart at below MSRP prices for months now. I did go ahead and order Planet Earth from Deep Discount though. I'm just waiting for that to come in. I figure that, at a minimum, it will work as a great demo for friends and family.
 
People are upset about not having access to Vin Diesel in HD? Wonders will never cease.

Have to agree with Foolkiller on Pitch Black, but not on Chronicles.

However two other films with Vin Diesel do stand out, now one gets an automatic pass for the short amount of time he is on screen (Saving Private Ryan) and the other is Boiler Room.

A relatively unheard of film, which has a blinding performance by the criminal underrated Giovanni Ribisi, its also the only Vin Diesel film in which he keeps his shirt on throughout and doesn't hit anyone let alone kill them.

Worth a look if you ever get a chance.


Regards

Scaff
 
I cracked and bought 2001: A Space Odyssey today for $19.95. The thing had been sitting with just the one copy left at Wal*Mart for months and when my wife drug me to get a $4 food chopper today I had to pick it up.
 
Three big news announcements regarding Blu-ray:


Pioneer Showcases 16-layer 400GB Optical Disc
(source)

100GB, 200GB and even 400GB Blu-ray discs have been under development for some time now, but the problem in the past was that they required unique pick-up heads, thus would not be able to work with existing consumer Blu-ray players. Well Pioneer has apparently changed all that. By using a dielectric reflective layer instead of a metallic one, they were able to shrink the track pitch by half, thus resulting in a 16-layer 400GB BD-ROM disc format that still uses the standard 405nm PUH so that it will work with all existing Blu-ray players.

The other huge news is the announcement by Warner Brothers' of their latest BD-Live feature;

"My WB Commentary"
(source)

There have been several interesting new features developed to take advantage of BD-Live, but this may be the most impressive one to date. Basically it will allow anyone with a PS3 or Blu-ray player that supports both BD-Live & Bonus View, and who have a PS Eye or USB webcam w/mic to record their own personal video commentary and then share it with their friends who can then watch it via picture-in-picture.

For less creative, but chatty types, there is also:

"My Community Screening"
(source)

Which offers real-time multiple viewing of a film via BD-Live with friends online and will allow those participating to chat during playback. Basically it's like having a virtual "Movie Night" for times when you just can't get together with family or friends, but would like to watch a movie together and chat about it. To help facilitate these live screenings with friends, there will be options for sending out online invites to screen movies.
 
Pioneer Showcases 16-layer 400GB Optical Disc
(source)

100GB, 200GB and even 400GB Blu-ray discs have been under development for some time now, but the problem in the past was that they required unique pick-up heads, thus would not be able to work with existing consumer Blu-ray players. Well Pioneer has apparently changed all that. By using a dielectric reflective layer instead of a metallic one, they were able to shrink the track pitch by half, thus resulting in a 16-layer 400GB BD-ROM disc format that still uses the standard 405nm PUH so that it will work with all existing Blu-ray players.
While this is impractical for games (imagine the load times) and the costs may be too expensive to reasonably sell any kind of current HD-gen movie I see this being handy for data storage and possibly selling entire TV seasons on one disc. Maybe a movie series, like The Matrix, The Lord of the Ring, or Star Wars, all on one disc.

The other huge news is the announcement by Warner Brothers' of their latest BD-Live feature;

"My WB Commentary"
(source)

There have been several interesting new features developed to take advantage of BD-Live, but this may be the most impressive one to date. Basically it will allow anyone with a PS3 or Blu-ray player that supports both BD-Live & Bonus View, and who have a PS Eye or USB webcam w/mic to record their own personal video commentary and then share it with their friends who can then watch it via picture-in-picture.
I give 24 hours after every movie using this comes out to have an MST3K/Riff Trax done, only not funny. They will be horrible, and stupid, but some guy will do it. MST3K, a group of professionals, spent a minimum of three days just writing their lines.

That said, I really, really, really wish this would be on The Transformers. I would have a field day. In all honesty, if this became a popular thing I could quickly see myself becoming the Yahtzee (Zero Punctuation) of movies.

What I could see being really cool is just renting movies from Netflix that use this and recording my commentary as I watch it for the first time. I know midway through August Rush my wife had to tell me to shut up about how it is just Pinocchio combined with Serendipity. <---tangent, sorry.

For less creative, but chatty types, there is also:

"My Community Screening"
(source)

Which offers real-time multiple viewing of a film via BD-Live with friends online and will allow those participating to chat during playback. Basically it's like having a virtual "Movie Night" for times when you just can't get together with family or friends, but would like to watch a movie together and chat about it. To help facilitate these live screenings with friends, there will be options for sending out online invites to screen movies.
While on the surface this seems like movie night for the anti-social, a friend and I were talking about doing this for The Incredible Hulk, which already came with this. We live 40 miles apart, so it isn't being anti-social, it is saving gas money.

Then it does have a cool possibility that Hellboy II showed. The Saturday after the movie launched on BD the director, Guillermo Del Toro, had a BD-Live chat with fans, allowing them to ask questions. Screw bonus feature documentaries about making the film when you can ask the director in person.

And I 100% guarantee that Watchmen will not have this. I imagine Zack Snyder will be slammed by the flames regarding use of the term The Watchmen :ouch: and the "squid." Heck, if WB is smart they won't allow the video review feature either.




Anyway, speaking of Blu-Ray, I finally got my copy of Polar Express 3-D in. I was underwhelmed. In IMAX it was an overlay effect and used refracting, clear 3-D glasses to create the effect. The home version uses the old school blue and red overlay with cool 1980's red and blue glasses. I think this would have been fine for any other film, but Polar Express is overly blue, so the red lense feels as if you are having half your vision blocked. After about five minutes your eyes adjust and you notice it less.

Now, another compliant I have is that the home setting does not quite work well. First, you have to adjust your TV settings to be as bright as possible and then you have to dim the lighting around your TV. Any glare or light sources near the TV will mess it up. I had to unplug my Christmas tree. Then there is the fact that an IMAX screen has you feeling like you are in the movie but a TV is never that huge unless you get really close. This could have been helped if the ratio had been 16:9 and not 2.33:1 (?). Even on my 42" widescreen I had bars so a hand sticking out of the TV appears to disappear if it gets raised before it reaches the top of the TV. This is even more annoying on an LCD, or other format that requires backlighting, so the bars stand out even in a dark room.


Anyway, this is all just based on a 20 minute sampling and I will give a full review after I watch the whole movie. Fortunately, it does have the 2-D version of the movie on the disc as well, so even if I decide I don't like the 3-D I can still watch the movie in 1080p.
 
While this is impractical for games (imagine the load times) and the costs may be too expensive to reasonably sell any kind of current HD-gen movie I see this being handy for data storage and possibly selling entire TV seasons on one disc. Maybe a movie series, like The Matrix, The Lord of the Ring, or Star Wars, all on one disc.
Actually, the number of layers doesn't impact the rate at which data can be read. In other words, a single layer 25GB BD-ROM has the exact same transfer rate as a dual-layer 50GB BD-ROM as well as a 16-layer 400GB BD-ROM. 👍


I give 24 hours after every movie using this comes out to have an MST3K/Riff Trax done.
That's immediately what I though of, but just as we see with LBP community levels, while there will be plenty of "junk" tracks to ignore, there will also undoubtedly be some brilliant commentaries, far better than many of the stock commentaries that come with most movies.

I can speak with some experience that it isn't necessary to have a script to produce a great film commentary. In fact, some of the best ones are purely spontaneous or improvisational.

Here in Austin we have a group, formerly known as Mr. Sinus Theater, who back in 2000 started basically doing a live version of what MST3K does on TV, but they did it at the original Alamo Drafthouse in fornt of a live audience, and did it so brilliantly that they not only toured around the country, but ended up getting sued by the creators of MST3K, and thus had to change their names.

So, while I agree there will be plenty user created commentaries to ignore, I'm sure there will also be some real gems... and not just the funny kind, but I also know a lot of extremely knowledgeable and interesting videophiles, who often know more about a film than the director. :)


Then it does have a cool possibility that Hellboy II showed. The Saturday after the movie launched on BD the director, Guillermo Del Toro, had a BD-Live chat with fans, allowing them to ask questions. Screw bonus feature documentaries about making the film when you can ask the director in person.
Apparently WB is doing the same thing with a BD-Live Q&A with Nolan on the making of The Dark Knight. 👍
 
Actually, the number of layers doesn't impact the rate at which data can be read. In other words, a single layer 25GB BD-ROM has the exact same transfer rate as a dual-layer 50GB BD-ROM as well as a 16-layer 400GB BD-ROM. 👍
You are right, of course it is assuming developers organize their data correctly. I am tired of 4GB installs. I understand it for online games, but even when those are well done the installs are minimum (Warhawk).

I just figure if developers can't organize their data on a less than 25GB BD so
that it reads fine without an HDD install then they will truly screw this up.

All that said, if it can be done and work just as smoothly as current games; BRING ON MGS5 BABY!

I can speak with some experience that it isn't necessary to have a script to produce a great film commentary. In fact, some of the best ones are purely spontaneous or improvisational.
Well, it depends. To do it MST3K style, where you fill in gaps in dialog immediately or even talk over a line with your own, you have to at a minimum have practiced it.

Here in Austin we have a group, formerly known as Mr. Sinus Theater, who back in 2000 started basically doing a live version of what MST3K does on TV, but they did it at the original Alamo Drafthouse in fornt of a live audience, and did it so brilliantly that they not only toured around the country, but ended up getting sued by the creators of MST3K, and thus had to change their names.
I had to say their name out loud to get it.
Anyway, if you like that sort of thing I suggest checking out Rifftrax.com. It is so much like MST3K you'll think it is (may have a lot to do with the cast).

I also know a lot of extremely knowledgeable and interesting videophiles, who often know more about a film than the director. :)
Again, Watchmen comes to mind.

Apparently WB is doing the same thing with a BD-Live Q&A with Nolan on the making of The Dark Knight. 👍
Oh good, I really want to ask him where the fun went.
 
Blu-ray is doing very nicely of late in the UK.

Why so serious? According to official data from the British Video Association (BVA), a staggering 513,000 copies of The Dark Knight were sold on its first day of its release from Warner's Arkham Asylum.

21 per cent of its business was done in the Blu-ray format.

Sales of the hi-def format have increased exponentially over the past three months. In November alone almost 463,000 discs were sold (a 66 per cent increase on the previous month).

And it seems that healthy sales of Blu-ray are not just restricted to blockbuster movies. Since its debut in November 2007, hi-def documentary Planet Earth has awed 58,000 buyers in HD – 25 per cent of its total sales.

Batman's main super-powered rival, Marvel's Iron Man, (released on 29th October), has sold 95,000 units to date, with Pixar's pixel-perfect Wall-E (released on 28th Nov) following with 60,000 sales; delinquent meta-human Hancock (released on 3rd Dec) has shifted 37,000 Blu-rays.

Lavinia Carey, Director General of the BVA, says: ‘Since Blu-ray was adopted as the high definition format, sales have gone from strength to strength.

Increasingly more people are recognising the substantial increase in quality that Blu-ray provides.’ The player population is expected to rise significantly, as the number of standalone decks priced at less than 200 grows. In total, over 2.5 million Blu-ray discs have been sold in the UK.
Source - http://www.homecinemachoice.com/blogs/team_hcc/Dark+Knight+flies+on+Blu-ray


Having a copy of TDK on Blu-ray I can certainly see why, the image quality on it is simply staggering, particularly the IMAX shot sections.


Regards

Scaff
 
This looks pretty neat.

Read Write Web
Hybrid Blu-Ray / DVD Disc Announced
Great news for those who have both Blu-ray and DVDs in the house; Infinity Storage Media has released the first hybrid Blu-ray and DVD disc in Japan.

The new media has a total storage capacity of 33.5GB and is compatible with existing DVD and Blu-ray players. The biggest advantage of the new media is backward compatibility - you can play it on your DVD or Blu-ray player.

How Does it Work?
single_side_dec_08.jpg


Based on JVC's 2004 Blu-ray/DVD combo disc technology, Infinity has layered one format on top of the other on the same side of the disc, making it possible for the lasers to penetrate to the desired depth and read the required information.

The Blu-ray makes up the top layer (25GB) with two more layers beneath that make up the DVD layers (8.5GB). Separated by a semi reflective film, the blue laser accesses the top layer and bounces off the DVD layers, while the red laser penetrate the various layers to get to the DVD information underneath.

The company claims that it has achieved compatibility with 99 percent of tests made on 64 Blu-ray and DVD players and conforms to the Blu-ray Disc specifications released by the Blu-ray Disc Association.

As we mentioned earlier, technically, this is not new. In 2004, JVC released a prototype [PDF], but ISM is the first company to take the disc to production, and hopefully to the masses. The only disadvantage? Currently it's only available in Japan, and no release date has been set for the United States.

Source: http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/hybrid_blu-ray_dvd_disc_announ.php

CDRinfo
First Hybrid Blu-ray/DVD Movie Title Announced For Japan
Japanese entertainment software developer Pony/Canon will release the first movie title on a hybrid Blu-ray/DVD disc in Japan in February, in an effort to accelerate the transition from the DVD to the Blu-ray format.

The Hybrid Blu-ray/DVD disc is a combination of a traditional DVD with the new high-definition Blu-ray format. Originally developed by JVC more than two years ago, the disc has a blue laser top layer (25GB); underneath there are two more layers just like an ordinary DVD (8.5GB). The Blu-ray and DVD layers are separated by a semi-reflective film that reflects blue light while it allows the red light to pass through the DVD layer underneath. The disc conforms to the "Blu-ray Disc, Hybrid Format" specifications released by the Blu-ray Disc Association.

Infinity_Hybrid_BD_2.jpg


The Hybrid BD/DVD disc is compatible with current DVD and Blu-ray players. Infiniti storage media claims that it achieves a compatibility of 99% according to tests made on 64 Blu-ray and DVD players.

The structure of the disc allows for easy manufacturing as well. According to Infinity, Blu-Ray's double layer can be manufactured as double layer, without needing to produce a double line up for discs. The DVD layers of the disc are stacked together with the BD layer.

Using a single layer for the Blu-ray content required the use of a new efficient video-encoding algorithm, since the provided capacity (25GB) was not enough. Provided that the specific title is not very demanding in terms of bandwidth, it was decided to use JVC's "Intelligent HD encoding technology", a technology based on the MPEG-4 AVC (H.264) specifications. According to JVC, the technology compresses a full HD image of 1,920 x 1,080 pixels and 24p/60i into about 12-24Mbps.

However, the first hybrid releases will be quite expensive. Pony/Canyon said that the fist movie package to be released in February would include a set of four hybrid discs (MPEG-4 AVC, Dolby Digital, 534 minutes in total) that will cost around 36,540 Yen ($406), while the DVD version (7 DVD discs, 534 minutes, Dolby Digital) will retail for 23,940 Yen ($266).

Source: http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/Details.aspx?NewsId=24560
 
I thought BD players could already read DVDs.
I think the big deal is that it will work in current DVD players too.

It was the one thing HD-DVD had on Blu-Ray, that many of them worked in DVD or HD-DVD players.
 
I wonder if this is something Microsoft will look into for the Xbox since I don't think it will go Blu-Ray.
 
It is time to put any doubters oin Blu-Ray's acceptance rate to rest. It has been faster than DVD.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/01/06/blu-rays-first-two-years-outpaces-dvds/

Blu-ray's first two years outpaces DVD's
by Ben Drawbaugh, posted Jan 6th 2009 at 2:13PM

blu_ray_market_share_12_16_08_sm.jpg


The success of DVD is the kind that consumer electronics manufactures dreamed of, and now after two years after the introduction of Blu-ray, it appears to be gaining steam even faster -- and during the worst economic crisis of our time. According to Richard Greenfield of Pali Capital, in two years there were about 1.2 million DVD players sold, whereas Blu-ray stand-alone player sales are estimated to be at 2.5 million -- no this doesn't include PS3s which are expected to be at 8 million. Of course choosing between a $129 DVD upconverter and a $199 Blu-ray player isn't that hard of a choice, but paying 30 percent more for a movie is. The news here isn't bad for Blu-ray either as it has managed to almost double its market share of the top 20 titles in the past six months. We have a feeling the members on the panel at the BDA press conference this Thursday at 7pm EST -- which we'll be covering live -- will have a few things to smile about.
 
It touched on it in the article there.

When, or if, can we expect to see Blu-Ray movies drop in price?
 
It touched on it in the article there.

When, or if, can we expect to see Blu-Ray movies drop in price?
Good question and I am having trouble finding even the DVD price example to go by. And I see conflicting reports on what people think will happen soon.

All that said, I have personally noticed that where movies were frequently starting out at $29.99 they are now starting to be $24.99. I'm not sure if it is just one distributor or what, but some are getting cheaper.

And I am seeing sales for them in the $15 range, occasionally even a 2 for $20 sale. Judging by personal observations I would say that we may be on the cusp of the first small price drop. But when it comes to media price drops never happen over night. The BDA will not make an announcement that they dropped the suggested price. One distributor will drop them, and then another to stay competitive. Or the price gets advertised as a sale deal, but stays there.

I don't remember when DVDs or CDs made the drop, but I just know that suddenly I realized I was buying movies for $5-$15 and music for $8-$12.
 
Heads-up for Blu-ray movie fans: DeepDiscount is having a pretty nice sale on them right now, with more than 50 titles selling for $15 each w/free shipping. 👍
Figures it hits right as my company delivers pay cuts. :grumpy:


By the way, does anyone know if the David Lynch version of Dune will be out on Blu-Ray in the US? I never upgraded to DVD, and now that I have Blu-Ray I would prefer that.
 
By the way, does anyone know if the David Lynch version of Dune will be out on Blu-Ray in the US? I never upgraded to DVD, and now that I have Blu-Ray I would prefer that.

Not in the US or UK, but bizarrely it has got a BR release in France.

One I personally hope will get a release in the UK (and of course US).


Regards

Scaff
 
It has to do with regional distribution rights. Most films have VERY complicated license rights, largely due to high production costs. Typically many different companies, even studios will share distribution rights of a film for both the theatrical and video release, with each company controlling a specific regional market.

I'm not intimately familiar with the distribution rights for Lynch's Dune, but I suspect many different companies are involved.
 
It has to do with regional distribution rights. Most films have VERY complicated license rights, largely due to high production costs. Typically many different companies, even studios will share distribution rights of a film for both the theatrical and video release, with each company controlling a specific regional market.

I'm not intimately familiar with the distribution rights for Lynch's Dune, but I suspect many different companies are involved.
Sounds to me like the Spacer's Guild is acting up again and unless they deliver as I see fit they will get no more spice.

He who can destroy a thing controls a thing.


On a more serious note: Seeing that it is Region 2, I am going to assume even importing would be pointless if I just have my US PS3.
 
On a more serious note: Seeing that it is Region 2, I am going to assume even importing would be pointless if I just have my US PS3.


Doing a quick search on highdefdigest, it appears it is region free, and at least one person in the following thread believes it looks better than Universal's HD-DVD version:

I also looked up the film on IMDB to see what it might list as far as ditributors:
  • Universal Pictures (1984) (USA) (theatrical)
  • Universal Home Entertainment (1998) (USA) (DVD)
  • Altomedia. Co. Ltd. (2003) (Korea) (DVD)
  • Altomedia. Co. Ltd. (2003) (Korea) (VHS)
  • Argentina Video Home (Argentina) (video)
  • Artisan Entertainment (2002) (USA) (DVD)
  • Flashstar Home Vídeo (Brazil) (DVD)
  • LW Editora (Brazil) (DVD)
  • MCA/Universal Home Video (1997) (UK) (VHS)
  • MCA/Universal Home Video (1997) (UK) (laserdisc)
  • MCA/Universal Home Video (1997) (USA) (VHS)
  • MCA/Universal Home Video (1997) (USA) (laserdisc)
  • RCV Home Entertainment (2008) (Netherlands) (DVD)
  • Scanbox Entertainment (2006) (Finland) (DVD)
  • Scanbox Sweden (1996) (Sweden) (VHS)
  • Sunfilm Entertainment (2008) (Germany) (DVD) (Blu-ray)
  • Thorn EMI Video Australia
  • United International Pictures (UIP) (1985) (Sweden) (theatrical)
  • World Movies (Brazil) (VHS)
It's not exactly up to date, but it clearly shows this film has, and will likely continue to have many different distributors.
 
It appears Universal has been responsible for all but one US release (2002), and that one I think is the Sci-Fi channel mini series. I can't find a movie release for 2002. The most recent original version release I can find is 1998, and then the extended cut in 2006.

So, unless I am just having trouble finding a 2002 DVD release of Lynch's version I will assume that Universal will likely be handling this, and they seem to be slow to transfer over their older titles that I want (Jurassic Park would also be appreciated).

My hope is that the Blu-Ray will actually contain the David Lynch version and the Smithee (Lynch didn't want to be involved) Extended Cut. If I only get one I want the original (like the HD-DVD had), as I understand the Extended Cut on DVD does a poor job of editing out the commercial cuts/fades.
 
Just a heads-up, both Amazon and Deep Discount have some great deals on Blu-ray titles right now.

Deep Discount has over 200 titles on sale, many of which are priced as low as $13, including the Uncut version of American Psycho, and First Blood is only $10 at Amazon. 👍
 

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