Blu-ray vs. HD DVD Discussion Thread

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I'm going with....

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How is Blu-ray selling? Im noticing more and more blueray movies and sections in the local shops just in my small town in northen Australia, let alone somewhere decent in the USA or europe.
 
Despite the "win," last I had heard it hasn't taken off all that much.

Based on this article from Gizmodo, sales have been so bad that NPD won't report them. Its down 40% from the holiday season, despite Blu-Ray sales being up 2% without the HD-DVD competition.

My guess is that until the player prices drop significantly, down into the mid $100s level, we aren't going to see any kind of major market dominance. The main issue I assume?

Most people are still quite happy with "regular" DVDs.
 
I didn't expect a huge jump, although I did expect more than 2%.

Although I wonder how much has to do with everyone not going HD yet? With cable and satellite companies telling people they don't need an HDTV if they use their service I have run into a number of them who have said that until their current TV dies or the HDTV switch is truly complete (no one downgrading their signal for customers) they will be fine with what they have.

I imagine a lot of people either A) won't switch to BD until they have an HDTV or B) think that they are already fine with DVD and what upscaling they have.

I also imagine pricing is playing a role as many people purely shop by what is on store shelves and if you are only looking in Best Buy, Circuit City, or even Wal*Mart they see new and popular BDs at $35 vs DVDs at $20 or less.

Good deals are out there, but the only people who know how to find the good deals are those that already want BD to begin with. So, they don't actually attract new customers that much.

CDs and DVDs didn't take off immediately and I imagine after the HD switchover there will be the first really significant bump and then it will grow steadily from there. But that is just my uneducated guess. I am far from a market guru.
 
My assumption is that most people, it seems, don't see enough of a difference to think that they need to make the investment... Or better yet, the economy is in the toilet already, so that could be playing a major factor as well.

I think until we see the BR players dropping into the mid-$100 range, and furthermore, popping up in our PCs and Macs, there won't be a big push to adapt.
 
Hell, I have a PS3 and I think DVD's still look fine. Granted any new movies I buy that I deem worthy (ie - explosions and the like (read - Iron Man)) will be on Blu-ray. I buy my kids plenty of stuff, but I doubt I'll be spending the extra to have WALL•E or Kung Fu Panda on Blu-ray. It just comes down to the movie for me.
 
That's what my plan has been. I laugh at people that are suckers and buy EVERY movie in BR... I mean seriously, JUNO in BR? Why... ?
 
Same here. My blu-ray collection consists of the Spiderman Trilogy, Live Free or Die Hard, and a couple of Harry Potter movies.

Renting is a different story altogether because any movie from Netflix that I can get as a BD I will, but that is because the scratch coating means that the discs will actually be playable. The few romantic comedies my wife has gotten and the general comedies and dramas I've gotten have looked no different, but movies with good effects show a noticeable difference even on my SDTV.

Unfortunately in some cases that difference means that the special effects sometimes look too obvious.

That might actually be something turning people off of the HD stuff. I know King Kong on HD-DVD has the already iffy green screen stuff look blatant and in Spiderman 2 Doctor Octopus looks absolutely bored in fight scenes because you can see what it really is; an actor standing there doing nothing while the CGI arms fly around him. And some backgrounds end up pulling you out of the moment, especially if the extras aren't into it. I know I saw one of the Pirates of the Caribbean movies where Johnny Depp was in the foreground while there was a huge fight behind him and the only people in the background that looked like they were even attempting to act were the named side characters that you occasionally see go in and out of frame. All the rest looked like some bored stuntmen concentrating more on the choreography than the acting.

I think it is something that HD will force Hollywood to eventually change and you will get a lot less random extras off the street and more starving actors with a bit of talent filling those spots. My hope is that it will eventually lead to some new talent being discovered.
 
V1P3R
That's what my plan has been. I laugh at people that are suckers and buy EVERY movie in BR... I mean seriously, JUNO in BR? Why... ?
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Laughing at a mod then are we!!!! :)

Given the choice between a BR and a DVD release I will go for the BR release, for a number of reasons.

First the price difference is now so small in most cases that its no longer a major concern (a lot of the time a few £s). Secondly the image quality is simply better, and that does just need a fast moving action film to be an advantage. I have both 'No country for old men' and 'The Assassination of Jesse James...) on BR, both fairly slow moving films, yet the detail in the open country shots in simply stunning. Add in the audio advantages and no having to stop the film to get to the menu (something I have found to be more or an advantage that I had ever believed) and for me its a no brainer.

As for animated films in BR (I'm not going to call them kids films as I enjoy them as much as the kids), well I have done a back to back on Ratatouille and the BR is easily one of the finest demo discs around. Every hair on every rat is visible on the BR (even with a good separate upscaler that is most certainly not the case with the DVD), when released I picked that up on BR for £2 more than the DVD at my local Asda/Walmart.

Have to say I disagree with you on this one, love films as much as I do and its a no-brainer for me, the audio and visual advantages win out every time (with the provision of course that its not a poor transfer - but that would put me off getting a DVD release as much as a BR release).

Regards

Scaff
 
Any word on Indiana Jones movies coming out in Blu-Ray? I want to get them in their new DVD form since I only have them on VHS (seriously doesn't anyone own a VCR anymore?), but if there are Blu-Ray ones in the works I will get them. I can't seem to find anything about it.
 
Joey D
(seriously doesn't anyone own a VCR anymore?)
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I have four. I still use them, occasionally. Thanks.

====

I likely won't get a PS3/Blu-Ray player until I get a better HDTV that can take full-advantage of it. As of right now, the 360 does just fine, and I still use the PS2 as a DVD player as well. I just don't see a big reason to switch-up at the moment.
 
Joey D
Any word on Indiana Jones movies coming out in Blu-Ray? I want to get them in their new DVD form since I only have them on VHS (seriously doesn't anyone own a VCR anymore?), but if there are Blu-Ray ones in the works I will get them. I can't seem to find anything about it.
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My parents own one its in the closet.

Also I seen a Rasion Brain Crunch cereal offer for the first I.J movie in DVD for one token(from cereal box;cut out) and $11.99.
 
YSSMAN
I have four. I still use them, occasionally. Thanks.
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Yeah, I have two still working.

I likely won't get a PS3/Blu-Ray player until I get a better HDTV that can take full-advantage of it. As of right now, the 360 does just fine, and I still use the PS2 as a DVD player as well. I just don't see a big reason to switch-up at the moment.
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*Glances at PS3 connected to SDTV*

Considering I have a long list of games on the hard drive and a handful on disc, and have it all connected with my PC over the network I think it is well worth it without the HDTV.

Of course, if you already have a 360 and no desire for Blu-Rays yet then you can do pretty much everything the same, just your games are slightly different.

I also have a PSP so that gives me an added bonus.
 
Well now i have a 46" Bravia X series and a PS3 i have begun attempting to find a few decent Blu-ray movies to add to my collection of Casino Royale (free) and gone in 60 seconds. Sadly finding a good range is hard where i live, may have to find some stuff online..
 
I've been impressed by the Ice Age movies on Blu-Ray. You can go up to your TV and count each hair on the character's bodies. I also liked Across the Universe. Be careful though, it is a musical.
 
YSSMAN
I think until we see the BR players dropping into the mid-$100 range, and furthermore, popping up in our PCs and Macs, there won't be a big push to adapt.
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Sale-ing into Blu: 11 milion Sold & Transformers Coming
Posted June 2, 2008 by Scott Hettrick
The world just keeps getting more Blu as the end of the format war has led to consumers jumping into high-def discs with both feet.

More than 11 million hi-def Blu-ray movies have been sold so far, according to data compiled by the Redhill Group for Home Media Magazine, and that's even before the potentially biggest Blu-ray title to date hits the market on September 2: "Transformers."

Projections based on preliminary data show that Blu-ray sales through May have already surpassed sales for all of 2007.

Blu-ray software sales in the first four months of this year more than quadrupled from the same period last year, climbing to 11 million since inception.

In an indication that the surrender of HD DVD had the overall effect everyone had hoped for in sparking the average consumer to feel comfortable jumping into the high-def market, this year's Blu-ray software sales through April are more than triple the number of sales of Blu-ray and HD DVD combined during the same period last year.

To further illustrate the point, consumers are increasingly choosing Blu-ray over DVD when new releases are available in both formats. For example, a year ago each new top 10 release mostly generated only 1% - 2% of sales from Blu-ray, with a couple titles collecting as much as 5% on Blu-ray.

This year in the first quarter, the top three Blu-ray titles, "I Am Legend," "3:10 to Yuma" and "No Country For Old Men," saw 8% - 10% of their sales in the Blu-ray format. Catalog Blu-ray titles that were also in the top 10, such as "Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End," "300," "Planet Earth: The Complete Collection," and "Casino Royale," saw overall DVD/Blu-ray sales jump to 18% - 28% for the Blu-ray versions of those titles during the first quarter.

The surge will no doubt continue with today's official announcement from Paramount that "Transformers" will be coming to Blu-ray on September 2. A slew of additional heavyweight new and classic titles begins to hit Blu-ray this week with "Cloverfield" and Warner's "Dirty Harry" collection and continues next month with "Top Gun" and special editions of Batman and Tom Clancy Jack Ryan movies and the "Starship Troopers" trilogy. Disney weighs in strong this fall with their first animated classic on Blu-ray October 7 in the most elaborate BD Live format yet on "Sleeping Beauty," followed by the first of a groundbreaking new series of Disc Exclusive computer-animated movies, "Tinker Bell" on Oct. 28.
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See, funny thing is that only half of HDTV owners even know what Blu-Ray is, and for that matter, only nine percent even plan to buy a player... And that's coming straight from the NPD.

And like I said, the problem is the price...

I don't think there is any doubt that it will be a good format and that it will eventually be the dominant form of media in the future... But with the way the economy is, and with prices refusing to drop, we aren't going to see major penetration in the market any time soon. Considering my Grandparents just bought a DVD player, its going to be a long, long time until they get anything remotely close to Blu-Ray. Facts and figures don't make a difference with average people... Its dollars and cents that do.
 
Funny thing is, people were saying the exact same things when DVD was only two years old as well, and a lot of grand parents where still buying VCRs... even in 2005, eight years after DVD was out and dominating the video market.

Look, I have no doubt DVD will remain the largest install base, but actual Blu-ray sales and not speculation are quite significant and pretty remarkable considering how young the format is, that unlike DVD, it had a very close format war for most of those two years, the added expense, and all the points you yourself have listed, like the belief that only 50% of HDTV owners have even heard of Blu-ray, only 9% plan to buy a player, price, economy, and that DVD players are still selling. In fact you might as well also add the fact that the majority of consumers still don't own an HDTV.

Yet despite all this, Blu-ray sales are growing at a remarkable pace... Go figure. I guess facts and figures do make a difference to many consumers and have already translated into significant sales.

So even if we were to assume everything you say is true, sales are already great for Blu-ray, and increasing at a very fast rate, and will only get better if and when those points you brought up are no longer valid or change to benefit Blu-ray even more.
 
YSSMAN
See, funny thing is that only half of HDTV owners even know what Blu-Ray is, and for that matter, only nine percent even plan to buy a player... And that's coming straight from the NPD.

And like I said, the problem is the price...

I don't think there is any doubt that it will be a good format and that it will eventually be the dominant form of media in the future... But with the way the economy is, and with prices refusing to drop, we aren't going to see major penetration in the market any time soon. Considering my Grandparents just bought a DVD player, its going to be a long, long time until they get anything remotely close to Blu-Ray. Facts and figures don't make a difference with average people... Its dollars and cents that do.
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DN is right on this one, and to be honest even your own sources back him up.

BR has a faster adoption rate than DVD at the same point in its like, BR players are cheaper than DVD player were at the same point in its life.

I'm one of those old enough to remember when DVD was released and people said exactly the same thing. Its too expensive, I'm not changing from VHS, etc, etc. It took DVD six years for weekly rentals to overtake VHS rentals, and films were being released on both VHS and DVD as recently as 2006 (A History of Violence - last dual VHS/DVD release).

At this point in a new formats life, and to be blunt about it, the average consumer is not going to be buying into it wholesale. Two to three years into DVD's life (and more for CD) the only peole buying into it were enthusiasts. As someone who has had a love of hi-fi and home cinema for decades I'm personally amazed as how well (and quickly) HD has taken off with the average buyer.

When DVD was launched back in '95/96 if you wanted a large screen and home cinema equipment you had no choice but to drop a lot of money on it and go see a very specialist retailers (and to most people it was seen as a huge waste of money), now you can go to a supermarket and buy a flat screen and home cinema in a box for a modest outlay and its becoming far more mainstream.

Take into account that economic downturns don't last forever (and certainly never managed to kill either CD's or DVDs) and that studios are already begining to heavely push BR (I believe 'Be Kind, rewind' will see the first release in which the BR comes out before the DVD - expect a lot more of that in the future) and retailers are getting a lot more competative on pricing. Add all these up and I can quite clearly see how BR adaption rates are already ahead of DVDs for the same point in life.

Economic downturns can also help 'stay at home' products; its a lot cheaper for me to buy a BR, cook a meal and have a damn good bottle of wine that it is to go out for the night. Yes the DVD would be cheaper, but only by around £5 in the UK right now.


Regards

Scaff
 
I'm not arguing that he is completely wrong, but I'm just saying that it would be expanding much faster if the players were in fact cheaper. Its really the only thing that's keeping me from buying one, and I know its the case with a lot of my friends and family as well. Its not expanding as quick as some people would like, but at these prices, it seems like a no brainer... But that being said, I very much agree that it is doing very well given its relative age in the marketplace.
 
Part of the reason DVD didn't get adopted faster was because of laserdiscs, Beta-Max, and 8-track audio players. People are constantly afraid of buying into a format that will be obsolete.

But Blue Ray comes on the heels of brand new televisions for a lot of people, and on the heels of a successful format change in home movies (VHS -> DVD). People have nice home theaters these days and want to take advantage of them. I think the HD conversion really helped spark Blue Ray/HDDVD adoption. Or, perhaps to put it more accurately, Blue Ray is capitalizing nicely on the HD conversion.
 
And in recent news...


NPD: 4 Million-Plus New Blu-ray Buyers in 6 Months
Published on June 3, 2008 by Scott Hettrick
Nearly 4 million HDTV owners plan to buy a Blu-ray-capable player in the next six months, and nearly half of all PlayStation 3 owners use the Blu-ray capability at least once per month, according to a new report from The NPD Group.

Both of those findings are very significant. The latter may be one of the first independent studies to show the strength of use of the PS3 as a Blu-ray player, something opponents often dispute.

And the study's conclusion that nearly 4 million HDTV owners intend to buy a Blu-ray device does not even include consumers who intend to buy an HDTV as well as a Blu-ray player to go with it. That would likely add a significant number since NPD notes that purchase intent is higher among the growing population of HDTV owners, "boding well for the future of the format."

The online survey by NPD from March 10 - March 20, 2008, also shows that familiarity with Blu-ray has increased almost 29% among the 40 million HDTV owners in the U.S. during the past nine months, jumping from 35% to 45% since June 2007.

Have a look at today's entire press release for yourself:

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

The NPD Group: Consumer Awareness and Potential for Blu-ray Disc Devices Rising

Challenges still remain for consumer adoption of next-generation DVD players and
content

PORT WASHINGTON, NEW YORK, JUNE 3, 2008 -- According to The NPD Group, a leading market research company, 45 percent of HDTV owners in the U.S. now claim to be familiar with Blu-ray Disc (BD), up from 35 percent in June 2007.

And, while only 6 percent of all consumers surveyed said they plan to purchase a BD device, NPD found purchase intent to be higher among the growing population of HDTV owners, boding well for the future of the format.

NPD's "2008 Blu-ray Disc Report" reveals that 9 percent of HDTV owners plan to buy a BD-capable player in the next six months. "With HDTVs now in approximately 40 million US households, that percentage translates to a pool of almost 4 million potential BD player buyers," according to Russ Crupnick, entertainment industry analyst for NPD.

Nevertheless, manufacturers still face challenges. Although HD-DVD is no longer a
competitive threat, many consumers are content with standard-definition DVD players and content. The leading reasons cited as barriers to purchase were a perceived high cost of BD players and a belief that standard-definition DVD is "good enough."

Blu-ray Disc Content Opportunities

Consumers who purchased a BD set-top player cited "leading-edge technology" and a "superior viewing experience" as primary reasons for making the purchase. And they indicated a clear preference for BD content. In fact, current BD set-top player owners expect that 80 percent of their upcoming purchases will be in BD rather than standard DVD. By comparison, 43 percent of PS3 owners use the BD capability in their consoles at least once a month; however, they do not view BD movies as often as set-top device owners do.

"The door is open for studios to feed the consumer's appetite for Blu-ray content, and we expect sales to increase, as prices for hardware and software moderate in the coming months," Crupnick said. "Even so it will take a concerted effort by manufacturers and retailers to ratchet awareness even further and convince all of those potential buyers of the superiority of Blu-ray Disc versus standard DVD."

Data note: Data was collected via online survey, which was fielded between March 10 and March 20, 2008. Final data for the nationally representative sample was weighted to represent the U.S. population of individuals age 18 and older.

About The NPD Group, Inc.

The NPD Group is the leading provider of reliable and comprehensive consumer and retail information for a wide range of industries. Today, more than 1,600 manufacturers, retailers, and service companies rely on NPD to help them drive critical business decisions at the global, national, and local market levels. NPD helps our clients to identify new business opportunities and guide product development, marketing, sales, merchandising, and other functions. Information is available for the following industry sectors: automotive, beauty, commercial technology, consumer technology, entertainment, fashion, food and beverage, foodservice, home, office supplies, software, sports, toys, and wireless. For more information, contact us or visit http://www.npd.com/.
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YSSMAN
See, funny thing is that only half of HDTV owners even know what Blu-Ray is, and for that matter, only nine percent even plan to buy a player... And that's coming straight from the NPD.
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Here is the thing with that. I know a number of people who are buying HDTVs for one of two reasons.

1) They think they have to by February
2) They always have the biggest and best stuff.

These people aren't concerned with Blu-Ray, or what it is. These are the ones that see a $20 DVD and a $25-$35 BD version and buy the cheaper. The image conscious may buy into a BD player, but they aren't creating a huge collection. I remember when my mom's boss got a huge TV and surround sound system with a DVD player. All he could show us was the Matrix. He bought one show-off movie and that was it.

People like myself who are interested in the tech side of it all and want it for the tech are willing to pay the extra amount and get it because I want to, not to show off or because the neighbor's kid told me I need it by February.

As it grows from the few early adopters into the mainstream it will become cheaper. But until the rate of purchase increases they can't get too cheap or else they lose money.
 
I'm so glad I bought a HD-DVD player aswell as a PS3. I got the entire series of Planet Earth on HD DVD for £15 delivered, and it looks absolutely stunning!

The only Blu Ray film I have is Sweeney Todd, simply because I can get HD DVDs so cheap online. £3 for American Gangster? Yes please! The DVD is more expensive than that :lol:
 

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