Blu-ray vs. HD DVD Discussion Thread

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Netflix claims you need 3mbps to get full quality, so make sure nobody is doing any heavy-duty downloading.
3Mbps is less than the bit-rate of the average DVD, much less a high-def disc. HD discs tend to run upwards of 20-30Mbps.

Until they can instantly stream real full-quality HD movies in 1080p, at the same quality we've come to expect from HD-DVD and Blu-ray, then it'll never take off. I refuse to settle for something so obviously inferior to the disc-based media that I already own.

Besides, you can't "buy" a movie this way. I don't even think they've discussed it. Everything so far has been rental-only.. the film is worthless after a couple of days. And what do you gain? You just don't have to get off your ass to drive three minutes to Blockbuster.

True digital distribution, the kind that Microsoft keeps babbling about, is a hell of a lot further off than some of you think. I don't see it becoming viable anytime in the next ten years.
 
It's a whole other subject so let's not clutter this thread up, but Amazon Unbox and Tivo have had movie rental and purchase options for a while now. To get people hooked, they gave me $15 to try it out. I rented a few movies this way and while it was nice not having to leave the house to get a movie (especially when "get a movie" involves taking the kids out with you), you have to plan ahead so it can be downloaded when you're ready to watch it. Fortunately, I could set the download up at work and 15 minutes later, my TiVo was getting it. By the time I was home, it was long done.
 
True digital distribution, the kind that Microsoft keeps babbling about, is a hell of a lot further off than some of you think. I don't see it becoming viable anytime in the next ten years.

Very true, but we're starting to see where it will be coming, and I'm truthfully excited. Personally speaking, subscribing to Netflix is probably the best thing I've ever done. I've saved so much money over Blockbuster, its really not even funny anymore.

$12 a month for two DVDs in the mail and "free" (well, because I already have a Netflix account) digital content streaming to my HD TV in the living room will be awesome in my opinion. The technology is nearly there, but like you said, the "true" stuff is still a while away.

And I'm still very interested in the Apple TV Take 2 thingamajig thats very similar. As I recall, their service downloads the HD movie "rentals" for $3 or something? It will be interesting to see what ends up happening with that...
 
TB
Fortunately, I could set the download up at work and 15 minutes later, my TiVo was getting it. By the time I was home, it was long done.

Sounds pretty cool, my "free" based version of that works much the same way. :dopey:
 
Sounds pretty cool, my "free" based version of that works much the same way. :dopey:
It was nice to try out for free, but now that the $15 is gone, I refuse to pay $3 for a movie when I can run 2 blocks to the grocery store and use the Red Box for $1.06.

Granted, again, that involves bringing the kids, which some days is well worth the $1.94. :lol:
 
Its over just read that link. Toshiba are going to cease all by the end of March.

It also said that Paramount were still confident to stay with HD-DVD on the 4th of Febuary. Were they mad!! Could they not see what was happening.
 
Its over just read that link. Toshiba are going to cease all by the end of March.

It also said that Paramount were still confident to stay with HD-DVD on the 4th of Febuary. Were they mad!! Could they not see what was happening.

Oh they could see what was happening alright, but would you want to be known as the company that killed HD-DVD? Why take that risk when Toshiba will do the job for you and you can walk away with the majority of your image intact.

What will be interesting (and an indicator of how long Paramount have been thinking about this) is how quickly they can get back into BR production. It would most certainly be in there best interests to get Transformers out as quickly as possible.

Scaff
 
The rumor was that Paramount took a hefty payment to support HD DVD, right? They are probably going to stay with HD DVD as long as they are required by their contract. That would be my guess.

And yes, it is officially over.
NYTimes
TOKYO — The biggest consumer electronic format war in a generation is officially over.

Toshiba, the Japanese electronics giant, threw in the towel on its HD DVD technology Tuesday, announcing that it would no longer develop, produce or market disc players for the format. In doing so, it ceded victory to Sony’s competing Blu-ray format, which now looks set to become the global standard for high-definition DVDs.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/20/technology/20disc.html?ref=technology

And I don't know how to lock a thread up, so if one of you fine moderators can do that for me, that'd be much appreciated!
 
Still not sure why Warner is still sitting on the Matrix Trilogy for Blu-ray..........
I hope it's because they are making it absolutely perfect, but it's probably because they are waiting for the best timing to cash in on it(like when more people jump on Blu ray). :sly:
 
John C. Dvorak has a very interesting view on the situation, thinking Microsoft was pulling strings the whole time to mess with Sony. A convincing arguement, but unfortunately, just a bit of a conspiracy theory.

Lance Ulanoff has an interesting view as well, which is definitely closer to the whole 20/20 deal that happens post-game.

I'm interested in seeing what some of the other folks will call on this, particularly Patrick Norton and Robert Heron. We'll see of course, but I think the details are just starting to come out...
 
The rumor was that Paramount took a hefty payment to support HD DVD, right? They are probably going to stay with HD DVD as long as they are required by their contract.
Which would be, um... today. The way I heard it, Toshiba's announcement and cessation of all HD-DVD production basically releases both Universal and Paramount from any and all obligation, effectively immediately.

Ah, here it is:

Wall Street Journal
If Toshiba withdraws from the HD DVD business, Viacom Inc.'s Paramount Pictures and General Electric Co.'s Universal Pictures, both of which support the format exclusively, would be immediately released from their commitments, one of the people familiar with the situation said. Warner Bros., which is obligated to sell HD DVD movies through May under its contract, would also be freed from those terms.

Hence the reason Universal piped up later that same day to officially announce their move to Blu-ray (although they were unspecific, I take this to mean they're going neutral, and will continue to release HD-DVD films as well for the time being, although not indefinitely).
 
Finally its over. I have been waiting so I could decide if I would get the HD DVD player or the Blue Ray player. Now I might actually have a good reason to get a PS3 unless they get a cheap Blue Ray player add on for the 360.
Glad I never bought the HD-DVD player.
 
John C. Dvorak has a very interesting view on the situation, thinking Microsoft was pulling strings the whole time to mess with Sony. A convincing arguement, but unfortunately, just a bit of a conspiracy theory.
You know, I first heard this theory when Michael Bay went on rant. At the tiem I thought it might just be Bay but seeing another person bring it up make me wonder.

It isn't as if Microsoft hasn't pulled a few other unfriendly business tricks in their day, some of which led to litigation.

The only thing that keeps me from buying into it is that digital delivery in high-def is too far off to risk the blowback from investors. It isn't like you can hold a shareholders meeting and tell them of your nefarious plan that will cost millions (billions?) but have a huge payoff in a decade or more.

If this came happened at a time when more people had extremely high capacity broadband then maybe, but I still know people with dial-up. My current broadband can only stream standard def if no other online stuff is being done and there isn't a slowdown on my cable company's end.

If this were the case Microsoft would have been better off just spending the money on payoffs to movie companies to only support their standard def delivery service with high def delivery as a premium service. If the stories of cash bonuses to studios are true then that would have been teh cheaper route to go.

I think Microsoft honestly hoped to have a succesful format until high-def delivery could fully take hold.

I can't say why BD won out over HD-DVD, but my best guess is that enough people with PS3s and HDTVs went ahead and started buying them. It just seems like Sony's gamble paid off more than Microsoft's. Perhaps if Microsoft had been a part of development it would have gone the other way.

Personally, I think Toshiba is the only one that went in with a safe angle. Support cell chip technology while pushing your disc format the other direction. If Blu-Ray wins they get an increase in the Cell business, if HD-DVD wins they get an increase in their disc format business. Now they have all the Cell production stuff from Sony. Quite a coincedence how they jumped on thet only a few months before HD-DVD fell through.

Now, that might be a more interesting conspiracy. Did Sony give Toshiba the Cell stuff to speed the HD-DVD demise that was becoming more obvious?
 
This all seems like fodder for some big corporate scandal movie. It just keeps sounding like there were way too many back room deals, many of them with dubious intentions, no one really knowing who's side is the "right side," and then customers get screwed in the end.

Being maybe a week-out from the pretty well-known demise of the format, I don't think we'll have good details as to why things happened until months down the road. Clearly the change in direction for Warner was the tipping point, but previous to that, its just hard to see why things were the way they ended up being.

Still, all very interesting. I'm looking forward to hearing more as the details (hopefully) emerge...
 
The other factor with digital downloads is most users home broadband isn't unlimited. For example, my broadband supplier says "unlimited" but subject to fair usage policy (basically to stop people downloading huge files all week).

If you are found to be consuming high levels of bandwidth they normally restrict your connection during peak times. I think it's a problem that will crop up with certain service providers.
 
The other factor with digital downloads is most users home broadband isn't unlimited. For example, my broadband supplier says "unlimited" but subject to fair usage policy (basically to stop people downloading huge files all week).

If you are found to be consuming high levels of bandwidth they normally restrict your connection during peak times. I think it's a problem that will crop up with certain service providers.
That may be how it works in some areas, but I know that here in Kentucky they basically kind of slide the priority area around based on usage and demand. So if one section is causing a bog on the network the ISP will lower their priority so that they experience a slower bitrate and reduce their usage and allows others who aren't abusing the network to still experience proper bitrates.

Of course, I think when I pay for 1 megabit I should get 1 megabit, not 750k. A little more infrastructure will solve all of this, which is why I say digital delivery is a ways off because there is still infrastructure building to be done even in populated areas to assure good speed to all.
 
Infrastructure and (unfortunately) better laws to protect consumer rights would be great. That, and people should probably be aware of what they're paying for and what they're getting. The last few times I've checked, I believe I've been right on target. But there have been nights where I've noted my bitrates drop a bit.

Otherwise; No complaints about my AT&T DSL... Well, other than it being from AT&T...
 
It just keeps sounding like there were way too many back room deals, many of them with dubious intentions, no one really knowing who's side is the "right side," and then customers get screwed in the end.
I don't know about figuring the right side, but this war indeed was filled with many secret deals. Of course, the biggest one being the Warner deal that brought an end to it all. Toshiba camp was quoted so many times about how that hit them out of nowhere. Some even said that Warner was in a middle of talks with HD DVD camp about increasing the production of HD DVD movies. Sneaky-sneaky.
 
The big rumor that I had always heard about was that Warner was looking to go HD-DVD exclusive, but would only do it if 20th Century Fox went as well. Personally speaking, with the two largest studios on the HD-DVD format, this war could have gone on much longer and likely would have been increasingly interesting.
 
I don't know about figuring the right side, but this war indeed was filled with many secret deals. Of course, the biggest one being the Warner deal that brought an end to it all. Toshiba camp was quoted so many times about how that hit them out of nowhere. Some even said that Warner was in a middle of talks with HD DVD camp about increasing the production of HD DVD movies. Sneaky-sneaky.

The big rumor that I had always heard about was that Warner was looking to go HD-DVD exclusive, but would only do it if 20th Century Fox went as well. Personally speaking, with the two largest studios on the HD-DVD format, this war could have gone on much longer and likely would have been increasingly interesting.

As someone who also spends quite a bit of time on High Def and AV forums I have come across the 'rumours' about WB and Fox going HD-DVD quite a few times.

Personally I seriously doubt both claims, in direct releases WB titles consistently shifted more units on BR than HD-DVD and as a company WB wanted an end to the war ASAP, as they were starting to see it affect the DVD side of the business as well. Rumours of the BDA paying WB $400+ million are also doing the rounds as well, the main thing with these rumours is that they are just that; the only place I have seen them is on forums and fan pages, no single credible piece of proof has even been seen to back them up. Had WB gone HD-DVD exclusive that would have fairly evenly balanced the studios between both BR and HD-DVD (in terms of percentage of the release market) and simply prolonged the format war, something WB would not have benefited from at all.

As for Fox going HD-DVD, with limited copy protection (in comparison to BR) and no region coding being implemented Fox would not have touched HD-DVD with a barge pole as an exclusive. This particular rumour, does have links to the one that HD-DVD were supposed to be trying to tempt a number of studios (and one could have been Fox) with the possible introduction of Region Coding to HD-DVD. Something that would almost certainly have been a must for Fox (who after have been the main users of Region Codling on BR) to shift, but would have caused uproar in the HD-DVD camp.

As I say, personally I don’t give much weight to either of these two, prioir to the WB switch just as many rumours were doing the rounds that the would go BR, most of the 'actually they were always looking at HD-DVD and Sony/BDA just bribed them' stories started to circulate after the switch.


Regards

Scaff
 
I don't know about figuring the right side, but this war indeed was filled with many secret deals. Of course, the biggest one being the Warner deal that brought an end to it all. Toshiba camp was quoted so many times about how that hit them out of nowhere. Some even said that Warner was in a middle of talks with HD DVD camp about increasing the production of HD DVD movies. Sneaky-sneaky.
Assuming those talks were actually happening there is most likely absolutely nothing sneaky about it. WB could have easily been talking with the HD-DVD through some lower-level managers who had months old information from executive management telling them to look into it and see what they could do. While this was going on executive management could have easily gotten a hold of new sales data and made an immediate call to switch to BD.

I've seen similar situations happen in my company before where signed contracts were one meeting away from being exchanged when the call came down to cancel the project. Heck we even had to swallow a deposit when an office renovation was canceled a week before work was to begin.


It is just the way business happens where things get set in motion based on short-term data and then once the long-term data is finally evaluated you have to make a complete 180 immediately. And sometimes it is a case of one hand not knowing what the other is doing due to poor communication. I can think of a hundred legitimate reasons, that don't involve money switching hands, why Warner would be in the middle of talks with the HD-DVD camp and then suddenly switch their plans.
 
Foolkiller has hit the nail on the head here.

As WB was originally 'format neutral' they would have been in constant contact and meeting with both sides, that they may of had a meeting with people from the HD-DVD side to discuss production figures at the same time they were talking to the BR side about going BR exclusive would be perfectly normal.

It would only be at the very moment that they went BR exclusive they would have stopped meeting and contact with the HD-DVD side; it would have taken a rather foolish WB executive to say at the end of a production meeting with HD-DVD "Don't bother about next months meeting, we will be Blu-Ray exclusive by then"; you smile and make the meeting knowing full well its not going to happen.

Hell I once talked about a meeting I was going have with my boss, knowing full well he was going to be fired within the next hour. Its not nice, but that is how business goes.


Scaff
 
The odd thing that Drovak noted was that at every HD-DVD meeting he had gone to (as the Editor of PC Magazine) that Microsoft was always standing there, oddly enough without Toshiba on many occasions. That, I assume, is what has lead him to think that Microsoft was behind this deal the whole time despite (presumably) knowing that HD-DVD was going to fail in the end.

I just can't see Microsoft willing to dump this much cash into a format that they know wouldn't succeed, or for that matter, wouldn't have a future later on down the line. Furthermore, the outrage of their stockholders at the HUGE loss of cash in the whole process. Maybe we're not far enough out to see what exactly they were thinking, but it nevertheless will likely be just as confusing then.
 
While you guys(FK & Scaff) do make some valid points, I'm still convinced that many secret deals did take place, including that Warner deal. While it is very likely that few things we heard here & there were just speculations or rumors, there were simply too many reports of them during this "format war". These rumors had Sony paying off from Target(retail chain) to Toshiba. Toshiba!

With billions of dollars on the line, I have no doubt in mind that there were many secret deals and dirty plays attempted.
 
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