lap time challenge

  • Thread starter jeffgoddin
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Whew, still alive. The storms knocked out our power (probably for a week! Ouch), but the nearest tornado (a pretty big one) missed by several miles. Lots of people died, but me and my family are all right.

Naturally, this means I won't be able to participate this week...hey Jeff, can I pm my times to you after the power is restored at home and I can get a chance to run some laps? They're estimating it will be some time in the middle of the week, though, so it'll be a while.

And it's good to see the matter with Jisaw came out nicely.
 
Wow, skynyrd, that's scary. Is that putting you in Alabama I guess? Oh, duh, skynyrd, could have guessed that... And yeah, feel free to PM me next week with results for this.
 
Bah, i'm doing terrible at this one. Kind of putting me off, but i'll keep trying.
 
Rome Circuit is one of those tracks that can drive you crazy. It's so hard to get a clean run, let alone a fast clean run. See my comments in the Rome vs Laguna Seca thread.

But to be honest, I started with the four lightest options, and it hasn't been as bad as I expected. Sure, with each one I knew after my 10 laps were over that if I just combined fastest section times I'd be at least a half second faster. Very frustrating to see your fastest time after section 3 and then blow the braking/cornering at the end!!!

Still have to try the Stageas and Legnums. It'll be interesting to see how their different versions compare, but I'm expecting to have trouble with their fat asses. Pinning my hopes for victory on the Legacy. Low 1:24's with the Impreza, then 0.05 faster with the Caldina, but both Kingofweasles and now JISAW are a little under 1:24... But boy I was surprised with the Caldina! That was JISAW's lethal weapon, too.

Oh, and a heads up, looks like we're doing Super (Duper) Touring (read RM'ed FF 4 door) cars at SSR5 next, tuned about 20% more power to weight than the Sim events. Alfas, Golfs, Intrepid, Stratus, Laguna, Focus, 323 4Door are all that can tune to this weight-to-power.
 
Results are in for Racing Wagons at Rome Circuit, see post 67 on previous page.

****************************************************************

GT2 race series 9th event announcement:

Super Touring Cars at SSR5
now with 9% more power!

May 2nd opening date, submit results by May 9th

Note: can be run in sim mode at Lux Sedan-2, though the race itself won't be competitive. Turbo tuned cars can be tried at Tuned Turbo-1, though that race will likely be too tough.

Tuning allowed: Racing Modification, Semi-Race Suspension, Hard Slicks, Brakes, Brake Balance Controller, Full Racing Transmission, Clutch-3, Fly-3

Cars to pick from, heaviest to lightest (hp listed is as you'd see it in the garage). This event will be judged in 2 classes, 2.5L and up (GTA class), and under 2.5L (GTB class). All run at equivalent weight to power ratios.

GTA Class:
Dodge Intrepid, Turbo-2, Muff-3 = 381hp
Taurus SHO, all power mods = 364hp
Laguna V6, NA-3, Muff-1, ROM, Engine Balance, Port Grinding = 360hp
Alfa 156 2.5 V6 24V, NA-2, Muff-3, ROM, Engine Balance, Port Grinding = 332hp

GTB Class:
Accord SiR-T '98, NA-3, Muff-3, ROM, Engine Balance = 328hp
Primera '98, all power mods = 328hp
Alfa 156 2.0TS, Turbo-3, Muff-2, Port Grinding = 319hp
323 4Door Sedan, Turbo-2, Muff-3, ROM, Engine Balance, Port Grinding = 284hp

Take one or more cars from the list above for a spin doing test laps/time trial. On the honor system, in order to keep it fair and not a huge time commitment going for a perfect time, you get 10 laps to go for a best lap time after settling on your tuning (don't abuse the tuning laps for practice, keep them under 2 laps at a time please.)

When you submit your results, feel free to include the details of how you tuned your car and I'll include them in the race report I send out. Things like suspension and transmission settings for example, but also whether you drive AT/MT and what kind of controller if you want.

PM me your results as you get them, let the battle begin!

****************************************************************************

Alfa Romeo's Twin Spark takes the Super Touring Car Trophy!
Ford and Nissan make it a close race

In a mixed event like this, the small engines are supposed to finish behind the fat V8's, right? Surprise! Two of the top three of the 8 entrants were 2L engines! In fact Alfa's 2.0TS beat it's GTA entrant the 2.5L V6 handily! The Ford Taurus did salvage some respect for the large displacement representatives, winning 2nd overall just 0.068 second behind the TS, and more significantly, giving 5 of the 9 teams their best times.

The Finns continue to dominate, providing best lap times with 6 out of the 8 models in the event, with team jeffgoddin only able to take the remaining 2 best times with the Taurus SHO and the Laguna V6. JISAW continues to nip at their tails, though, with another stong 3rd place finish in the individual standings. Meanwhile stoperan and Xenn refuse to let the leaders runaway with the victory, keeping pace less than 2 seconds off the lead.

And lets all give a round of applause to the pace car drivers at team HEAVYSET!


Note: since the GTB class kept up with the GTA class perfectly well (in fact won overall) the results below show both classes combined.

Manufacturer's Trophy:
1) Alfa 156 2.0TS: 1:23.092 (MadMax86) - proving the Twin Spark to be an engineering masterpiece
2) Ford Taurus SHO: +0.068 (jeffgoddin) - another great engine
3) Nissan Primera/Infinity G20 '98: +0.206 (MadMax86)
4) Alfa 156 2.5 V6 24V: +0.731 (MadMax86)
5) Renault Laguna V6: +0.765 (jeffgoddin)
6) Dodge Intrepid: +1.161 (MadMax86)
7) Mazda 323/Protege 4Door Sedan: +1.831 (MadMax86)
8) Honda Accord SiR-T '98: +1.888 (MadMax86)

Individual Results:
1) MadMax86: 1:23.092, Alfa 156 2.0TS
2) jeffgoddin: +.068, Taurus SHO
3) JISAW: +1.006, Primera/Infinity G20 '98
4) stoperan: +1.704, Taurus SHO
5) Xenn: +1.784, Laguna V6
6) skynyrd: +3.362, Taurus SHO
7) jacnob: +6.021, Taurus SHO
8) AMCNUT: +12.237, Alfa 156 2.0TS
pacecar) HEAVYSET: +13.730, Taurus SHO, all stock but medium slicks


Full race results:
Code: 
GTA Class:
[B]1:41.958[/B], HEAVYSET, Laguna V6, all stock but medium slicks
[B]1:38.864[/B], HEAVYSET, Dodge Intrepid, all stock but medium slicks
[B]1:37.823[/B], HEAVYSET, Alfa 156 2.5 V6 24V, all stock but medium slicks
[B]1:36.822[/B], HEAVYSET, Taurus SHO, all stock but medium slicks
[B]1:29.113[/B], jacnob, Taurus SHO
[B]1:28.620[/B], skynyrd, Laguna V6 :grumpy:
[B]1:28.129[/B], skynyrd, Alfa 156 2.5 V6 24V
[B]1:27.367[/B], skynyrd, Dodge Intrepid, going sideways:)
[B]1:27.000[/B], JISAW, Alfa 156 2.5 V6 24V
[B]1:26.454[/B], skynyrd, Taurus SHO, new favorite car!
[B]1:26.307[/B], stoperan, Alfa 156 2.5 V6 24V
[B]1:25.709[/B], stoperan, Dodge Intrepid
[B]1:25.686[/B], JISAW, Laguna V6
[B]1:25.414[/B], stoperan, Laguna V6
[B]1:24.876[/B], Xenn, Laguna V6: "Such a fun car to drive!  Max DF and skillful drifts for this time."
[B]1:24.796[/B], stoperan, Taurus SHO
[B]1:24.282[/B], jeffgoddin, Dodge Intrepid, okay powerband, fast on straights as expected, but squishy springs led to lumbering through corners
[B]1:24.253[/B], MadMax86, Dodge Intrepid, 123/160, dampers 3/8, 1.8/1.4, brakes 5/8 Auto 9 Final 2.5, max DF
[B]1:24.215[/B], jeffgoddin, Alfa 156 2.5 V6 24V, 2.0TS powerband [I]much[/I] better for some reason...
[B]1:24.211[/B], MadMax86, Laguna V6, 115/150, dampers 3/7, 1.7/1.4, drakes 5/7, Auto 9 Final 2.5, max DF
[B]1:23.857[/B], jeffgoddin, Laguna V6, felt agile and quick, powerband lacking though
[B]1:23.823[/B], MadMax86, Alfa 156 2.5 V6 24V, 119/155, dampers 2/6, 1.8/1.5, brakes 5/8, Auto 9 Final 2.5 then tweaked to make 6 a little taller and 1-5 a little shorter
[B]1:23.443[/B], MadMax86, Taurus SHO, "faster than I thought it would be," 119/155, dampers 2/7, 1.7/1.3, brakes 4/8, Auto 9 Final 2.5, max DF
[B]1:23.160[/B], jeffgoddin, Taurus SHO, fast and pretty sticky, held a good powerband at this tuning surprisingly


GTB Class:
[B]1:48.243[/B], HEAVYSET, 323/Protege 4Door Sedan, all stock but medium slicks
[B]1:41.958[/B], HEAVYSET, Alfa 156 2.0TS, all stock but medium slicks
[B]1:39.776[/B], HEAVYSET, Accord SiR-T '98, all stock but medium slicks
[B]1:38.443[/B], HEAVYSET, Primera/Infinity G20 '98, all stock but medium slicks
[B]1:35.329[/B], AMCNUT, Alfa 156 2.0TS
[B]1:30.354[/B], skynyrd, 323/Protege 4Door Sedan, lacked power but very enjoyable!:)
[B]1:30.103[/B], skynyrd, Accord SiR-T '98 :grumpy:
[B]1:28.349[/B], skynyrd, Primera/Infinity G20 '98
[B]1:27.851[/B], stoperan, 323/Protege 4Door Sedan
[B]1:27.345[/B], JISAW, Accord SiR-T '98
[B]1:27.158[/B], skynyrd, Alfa 156 2.0TS
[B]1:26.956[/B], JISAW, Alfa 156 2.0TS
[B]1:26.901[/B], stoperan, Accord SiR-T '98
[B]1:25.969[/B], jeffgoddin, 323/Protege 4Door Sedan, could have been faster in a couple spots, but also very fast through last chicane...
[B]1:25.670[/B], stoperan, Alfa 156 2.0TS
[B]1:25.275[/B], stoperan, Primera/Infinity G20 '98
[B]1:25.225[/B], jeffgoddin, Accord SiR-T '98
[B]1:24.980[/B], MadMax86, Accord SiR-T '98, 119/155, dampers 3/7, 1.7/1.4, brakes 7/10, Auto 9 Final 2.5, max DF
[B]1:24.923[/B], MadMax86, 323/Protege 4Door Sedan, 115/150, dampers 3/7, 1.6/1.3, brakes 4/7 Auto 9 Final 2.5, max DF
[B]1:24.225[/B], jeffgoddin, Primera/Infinity G20 '98
[B]1:24.098[/B], JISAW, Primera/Infinity G20 '98
[B]1:23.557[/B], jeffgoddin, Alfa 156 2.0TS
[B]1:23.289[/B], MadMax86, Primera/Infinity G20 '98, 104/135, dampers 4/6, 1.7/1.3, brakes 4/9, Auto 9 Final 2.5, max DF
[B]1:23.092[/B], MadMax86, Alfa 156 2.0TS, 119/155, dampers 2/7, 1.8/1.5 brakes 5/7, Auto 9 Final 2.5, max DF

team jeffgoddin's general tuning: ride height min/min, dampers 6/5, camber 1.6-1.7/1.1-1.3, brakes 16/12, gears custom with 1st tallest and last gear shortest and final usually set to see revs approaching limit at end of the main drag except for TS and Taurus, DF set to max/max-5.  goal of setup is to induce some oversteer.
 
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I had a busy week and forgot to run the wagon event.


RM Intrepid 👍 👍

I've done a 11.018 at 400m without RM , IIRC



MadMax
 
Electricity's back on, I'll send my times for the Wagon race in a few days, and hopefully have my Super Touring times in on time.
 
@skynyrd. Cool. jacnob also lost power due to tornadoes!

FYI, time to beat for Super Touring: my first attempt, in lap 8 I got the 323 4Door to lap SSR5 in just under 1:26. Holy cow what a fast, twitchy little bastard! I expect however every other car has the potential to do better than this, and I could even see the 323 doing 1:25.8 or better. Soo.... good luck this week everybody!
 
Cool. I'm glad this got finished up. For those who don't know I was going to paricipate but I got robbed on Sunday afternoon. They got about $100. So I couldnt really get into driving after that.

I was using Subaru Forester for the record. Got down to something like 1:31 on Friday before giving up. You guys must be flying around the track almost by intuition, with your 1:23s and 1:26es. I'm not that good at GT2 anymore.
 
Sorry to hear about your misfortune, PB. Break in or mugging? Hope you and your's weren't harmed in any way.

As for challenges from now on, I hope it's okay with Jeff if I just run the cars stock, with the exception of installing the best rubber allowed. I'm no purist, but I always preferred to run cars stock in order to preserve their character. Buying all these parts get tedious for me. Besides, I never take advantage of options to tune, and I'm 4 seconds too slow anyway. :dunce:

The flipside is I'll be able to sample more of the cars each week. Call me easily amused, but that's where all the fun is for me each week, just buzzing a different car around a different track as best I can.
 
@HEAVYSET - ha ha, sure! We'll call you the official pace car. And shame on the racer who can't beat your time. If you want, though, I'd say go ahead and step up the tires one notch. It'll help to counteract the loss in handling from not having suspension.
 
Just wanting to be sure here...we're allowed to choose any car from what is specified, and it'll go under the class it's part of?

So we can choose to run only one car from one class if we wanted to?
 
Yeah, that's right. No need to pick one from both classes or anything.

Was just trying to push the absolute limits of FF sedans here, and there aren't many which can compare with the Intrepid and Alfa 156 2.5 in terms of weight-to-power ratio. So to fill the field I added the 323, Primera, and Accord, but felt bad about trying to compare these smaller engines against the Intepid, Taurus, and Laguna, so I made two classes, which also gave me a reason to include both the 156 2.5 and the 156 2.0 TS (I've never before had a reason to try the 156 2.0 TS). I have a feeling Alfa is going to win both classes...
 
Xenn
Just wanting to be sure here...we're allowed to choose any car from what is specified, and it'll go under the class it's part of?

So we can choose to run only one car from one class if we wanted to?
Click to expand...

Correct.

Submitted my times , used all the cars.



MadMax
 
Ok, I'm about to rip my hair out.

This semi-race suspension in every race...I've always used the type of suspension where EVERYTHING is adjustable (I really miss my spring rates...!), not just Damper, Camber, and Toe, none of which I seem to understand or ever really messed with before.

Will someone please explain how to adjust these for more oversteer or understeer? Just when I think I've made progress, I find the car behaving uncontrollably one way or the other, and no clue as to why. There's no need to post your favorite settings or anything like that if you don't want to since I have my own preferences for a car's handling, I just need someone to explain how they work, and how much of a settings difference it takes to see a change. Everything I've found online is overly vague or so full of unnecessary jargon that it's virtually unreadable.
 
Sorry about the semi-race so much. It's kind of a compromise for those who don't want to tune and those who do, and also it emphasizes the stock spring rates of the car (since sport and semi-race just increase them proportionally), whereas pro suspension allows you to totally change the car's handling from stock.

But my standard tuning setup is no secret.

For dampers, front lower=more understeer, front higher=more oversteer. So in this battle I leave rear at 5 and raise front to 6. Not very dramatic, some may raise front to 7, 8, or even 10 to get more of a response. I also try to consider spring rates when setting dampers. If front springs are much harder than rear, and I want more oversteer, I may set front dampers to 7 instead of just 6. This comes more into play when I'm looking at FR's and 4WD's, FF's are more simple to me.

For Camber, again somewhat related to spring rates. Harder springs=not as much body roll=less need for camber. If front and rear are about the same (in other words kind of soft) in the case of these FF sedans, I set front camber to 1.6 or 1.7 and rear to 1.1 or 1.2. If front springs are harder, I set front camber to 1.4 or 1.5 (rear still at 1.1 or 1.2).

Brake controller, I usually just set front to 16 and leave rear at 12 in all cases. This seems to balance traction loss, since you have more weight on the front under braking, you should have more brake force in the front. I don't really do it to induce oversteer.

But I'd also recommend taking a good long look through Scaff's guides if you're interested in learning more.
 
I understand some people prefer the cars stock or close to it; everyone enjoys the game in their own way.

But anyway yeah, my tuning pretty much starts with getting the spring rates the way I want and goes on from there; this part of it is pretty much alien to me.

Thanks for the info
 
skynyrd
I understand some people prefer the cars stock or close to it; everyone enjoys the game in their own way.
Click to expand...

Raises arm and nods.

In all honesty I don't have anything against modifying the cars, I just have a more realistic view of it. For example, if I lived near a track and could participate in trackdays, I'd want to modify my car a little. But it has to be reasonable within a budget and still retain street ability. I'd have to be able to drive the car to and from.

This is what I would do:

-Allow the engine to breath better. Better flowing air filter and ductwork. Better flowing exhaust, but has to retain cat. I wouldn't add forced induction or nitrous without beefing up the bottom end. Don't want to risk dropping connecting rods all over the track.
-Performance chip
-Performance brake pads and rotors. Stock pads and rotors would likely overheat too soon
-Set of racing slicks on lightweight racing rims, for installation at the track. Depending on hauling space, I'd most likely have to haul them to the track on a portable roof luggage rack
-Some basic weight removal. Pull out the spare tire and jack. Maybe the rear seat if it isn't too much bother
-I'm undecided on the suspension. If I felt the car wallowed too much, maybe new shocks/springs/struts. But I wouldn't want the car to lose much of its comfort. I don't want to lose my kidneys on the way home.

All this stuff is sensible, won't break the budget, and still retains much of the car's character.

When I play games like Forza and GT, I'm reluctant to install race anything on my vehicles, other than slicks. I try to limit it to sport. I figure if I need a race car, there are plenty available. If there isn't a racing version of my favorite car, well there's probably a good reason for that.
 
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Where can I find the 323 4-door? I assume it's a BMW? All I see are 323ci and 323ti Compact, both 2-doors. I do see a 328i 4-door.
 
jeffgoddin
Ah, shoot. 323 4Door Sedan = Mazda Familia 4Door Sedan...
Click to expand...

I still don't see it. I see a 323F S-Wagon Sport 20 (J) '99. In the used lot I see a Protege 4Door sedan (J) '89. Most everything else is RX-7s and Miatas. I don't see the word Familia at all. I have the Greatest Hits version, if that has anything to do with it.
 
treed: Sorry again, yeah, the Protege. Note that it will be the slowest car in the bunch, but it is fun to handle being the lightest and so having the most power to weight using my formula for setting up fair battles.

In the three different versions of the game (J/US/PAL) the three different names for this model are used according to how they were marketed historically, Familia/Protege/323, I get it confused some times...
 
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Okey doke. I'm trying all the cars this week and wanted to make sure I got them right. Please excuse my car ignorance. I had a hard enough time finding out who made the Laguna and Primera. I did recognize Accord as a Honda badge. I should get points for that. :dopey:
 
HEAVYSET
Okey doke. I'm trying all the cars this week and wanted to make sure I got them right. Please excuse my car ignorance. I had a hard enough time finding out who made the Laguna and Primera. I did recognize Accord as a Honda badge. I should get points for that. :dopey:
Click to expand...

:lol: Yeah, that's right, the Primera is also called an Infiniti G20...
 
Dodge Intrepid- 1:38.864

Ford Taurus SHO- 1:36.822

Renault Laguna V6- 1:41.958

Alfa 156 2.5 V6 24v- 1:37.823

Honda Accord SiR-T '98- 1:39.776

This one I'm not sure about. The only Primera I could find was the Nissan Primera Wagon '98. I didn't see any Infinitis. Time was 1:38.989

Alfa 156 2.0 TS 16v- 1:41.958

Mazda Protege Sedan '89- 1:48.243

All stock 'cept for medium slicks.
 
Duh, I was looking for Infiniti as a separate brand in South City. I thought it was Nissan's luxury brand for North America.

Anyway, as skynyrd pointed out, I found the G20 under Nissan and ran some laps. Pretty close to its wagon sibling. 1:38.443
 

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