Do you believe in God?

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Do you believe in god?

  • Of course, without him nothing would exist!

    Votes: 624 30.6%
  • Maybe.

    Votes: 368 18.0%
  • No way!

    Votes: 1,051 51.5%

  • Total voters
    2,042
There is proof in this world all over. I believe this. Just look around. Trees, water, oceans, how complex the universe is. How incredible human anatomy is. How the earth is so perfect distance from the soom (I presume you mean the Sun) and earth.
A while back I heard a fanatical creationist argue that everything must have a designer, with cars and houses being examples.

The thing is, even inanimate objects undergo an evolution of sorts (why else do you think Mitsubishi named their top model the Evolution? :sly:). If a house design is poor, the flaw is corrected by the next bunch of architects. If a car understeers a bit, and it does matter to those who drive it, then the manufacturer corrects it in the next model, or a tuning company does so.

By stating "the Earth is the perfect distance from the Sun," do you mean that if it is 10 metres closer we'll all fry, and if it's 10 metres further away we'll freeze?

I see where the world is headed.

Harold Camping much? Ever since mankind started thinking about the end of the world, people have claimed that it is just around the corner. Thankfully, they've always been wrong.
 
So if an Amazon rainforest native lives his entire life without sin but also goes without any interaction with a Christian, is he going to hell? He never said no to God because no one asked him. He has never heard of Jesus Christ. He doesn't even know life outside of the rainforest.

Would God send him to hell?
 
Pretty good point, he would just end up his walk on earth and become once again one with nature, as most of the native beliefs say.

As much as I try to understand the concept of sin, I just can't. I'm sorry, but imposing penalties on something that was based on rules of a primitive society that sprung up rudimentary morality is just dumb.

There's no such thing as a sin as long as there is the concept of freewill, otherwise there isn't truth in freewill because it isn't actually free of rules. They can't coexist.
 
Good read, I usually don't pay much attention to entertainers on social issues but that guy's respect and honesty is great. Pretty funny too :lol:
 
By stating "the Earth is the perfect distance from the Sun," do you mean that if it is 10 metres closer we'll all fry, and if it's 10 metres further away we'll freeze?

I seriously think that people are thick if they believe that. The Earth's orbit is elliptical, so the distance is always changing (the difference between the furthest and closest is about 3 million kms). I wonder if Christian extremists still believe the world was created in 7 days. The Church accepts that Evolution is very probable.
 
I know a fundamentalist who believes the Dinosaurs died out because they were too big to fit in the Ark! :lol:
 
Off on his Biblical dates for the Mesopotamian flood by nearly a hundred million years... give or take a few mega-decades. :lol:
 
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buggs1a
There is proof in this world all over. I believe this. Just look around. Trees, water, oceans, how complex the universe is. How incredible human anatomy is. How the earth is so perfect distance from the sun.


An argument towards design right? I don't know the term used, Devine design, or yeah, intelligent design? Anyway, here is a blog from one of my favorite atheists, Robert Kuhn, if you don't know who he is a simple google will work. I like his approach and also follow up by investigating all the people he interviews.

We’ve all seen it done: You start by observing nature and then argue that this points to the existence of a God. Of course, it raises as many questions as it answers. Is this the god of deism, theism, or Trinitarianism? Or a committee of gods (not what Christians mean by the Trinity, by the way)? In the past, writers such as William Paley argued that the existence of God could be deduced from the apparent wisdom of the ordering of the created order.

Yet long before Darwin came along, pulling the rug from under Paley’s argument, Christian theologians were expressing doubts about Paley. John Henry Newman famously stated that he believed “in design because I believe in God; not in God because I see design.” Paley’s argument, of course, could be restated, and salvaged to some extent. Charles Kingsley, for example, noted that it could be salvaged by declaring that God did not simply make things, but made things make themselves. But for many, the idea of arguing God’s existence from first causes, whether physical or biological, was in terminal decline once Darwin’s theories gained the ascendancy.

Yet the passing of time has raised new questions, which have reopened this old debate. The growing realization that the universe is not eternal, but came into being in an astonishingly short time, has raised again the question of whether it was “created.” How could it have caused itself, if there was nothing there to initiate a causal process? If the universe was “created,” then surely there is a “creator”? Things don’t just happen; they are made to happen.

Of course, it’s not that simple. Critics argue that “creation” and “origination” are totally different ideas. The universe may have come into being from nothing, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that someone got it going. Yet the growing interest in anthropic phenomena, such as the apparent “fine-tuning” of the universe, has injected new energy into what some had prematurely regarded as a closed debate.

But this is only one way of looking at things. Some have turned instead to the idea of the quest for the “best explanation.” This approach doesn’t require a causal explanation of things. Instead, it looks for a good fit between theory and observation. British philosopher of religion Ian Ramsay likened the idea of “empirical fit” to trying on a hat for size rather than a precise causal account of things. So the question is now: Does belief in a creator God make more sense of what we observe in the world than does anything else? C. S. Lewis certainly thought so: “I believe in Christianity as I believe that the Sun has risen, not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else,” he said. The jury’s still out on this one, but there’s no doubt that many believe this is the best framework within which to discuss the whole question of whether nature points us to God.

http://www.closertotruth.com/blog-entry/Arguing-God-From-First-Cause-by-Alister-McGrath/14

Sorry it's so long, I was going to clip it down but could not find things easily removed from his point. the apostle Paul first said what Paley argued I think, here in romans somewhere :embarrassed:ops:

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

unless there is an earlier statement made from a different religion head.

I was having a discussion with a friend on the possibility of eternal life when this came up btw.. I was arguing that I thought everything was eternal while he argued everything is finite, or transient, or something. evolving maybe but having a start and end? anyway.......

Daniel
I wonder if Christian extremists still believe the world was created in 7 days. The Church accepts that Evolution is very probable.

I'm not sure what constitutes 'extremist' but someones might put me in that class. I believe the world has always existed in some form, the beginning of Genesis must have a different meaning to me then you as well as most everyone else for that mater, Christian or otherwise. It does not bother me that it's meaning is simplified into an unbelievable fairy tale nor that science can contradict the time period with carbon dating or whatever. To me it tells of the beginning of man as we know us, with our 'spirit' or spark of conscience or whatever you want to call it. I don't believe that life which allows us to communicate with symbols for example, and have many other attributes above other animals to be a cause of evolutionary enhanced skill of survival.
 
I believe I voted the wrong option in this poll. I have come to the conclusion that I actually believe in God, even if I tell myself there's no reason to believe him, or no proof whatsoever. How do I came to this conclusion is pretty simple. Everytime I'm in a bad situation, like before a very important exam, I start praying. Even if I do it while thinking "hey, it's worth a shot", it still means I believe there's someone up there.

Then again, I believe there's no reason to believe there's a God, yet I still think there's one.
 
I believe I voted the wrong option in this poll. I have come to the conclusion that I actually believe in God, even if I tell myself there's no reason to believe him, or no proof whatsoever. How do I came to this conclusion is pretty simple. Everytime I'm in a bad situation, like before a very important exam, I start praying. Even if I do it while thinking "hey, it's worth a shot", it still means I believe there's someone up there.

Then again, I believe there's no reason to believe there's a God, yet I still think there's one.

...really!? You're trolling both sides aren't ya! No seriously though are you being serious
 
I am an atheist.
If I am wrong, and God asks why I didn't believe after I die, I'll tell him that I would have been a fool to.

He could have provided evidence, but he did not. Would He really give me a rational, freethinking, and intelligent mind if He didn't want me to use it?
 
I believe I voted the wrong option in this poll. I have come to the conclusion that I actually believe in God, even if I tell myself there's no reason to believe him, or no proof whatsoever. How do I came to this conclusion is pretty simple. Everytime I'm in a bad situation, like before a very important exam, I start praying. Even if I do it while thinking "hey, it's worth a shot", it still means I believe there's someone up there.

Then again, I believe there's no reason to believe there's a God, yet I still think there's one.

You're allowing an emotional response to overwhelm your rational mind. That doesn't mean you believe in God, it means you're scared and you let that fear take over.
 
You're allowing an emotional response to overwhelm your rational mind. That doesn't mean you believe in God, it means you're scared and you let that fear take over.

Why spoil it for him, eh? Wouldn't it be funny if he turned out to be right after all?

I look at it like this. If I'm wrong and there is no God, I've got nothing to lose by going to church anyway (Well, other than about an hour of my weekend which doesn't mean a whole lot). And if I'm right, well then good for me. And if another religion happens to actually be correct, then I might be screwed. But if you're like LMS and simply believe someone's up there, you've basically given yourself the best chance possible.
 
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Hypothetically, what if there's a god who rewards people for using their rational minds to realize that a god probably doesn't exist, as there's no evidence for it?

Or what if there's a god who rewards people just for being good people, whether or not you believe in god? That would suck for all those religious people who get their moral values from books that condone killing and hatred. This doesn't apply to all religious people obviously, just the really ignorant ones.

Or, maybe there's no god, and it's more important to concentrate on what happens in reality than worrying about what might go on outside of it. That's my philosophy.
 
Sam48
Why spoil it for him, eh? Wouldn't it be funny if he turned out to be right after all?

I look at it like this. If I'm wrong and there is no God, I've got nothing to lose by going to church anyway (Well, other than about an hour of my weekend which doesn't mean a whole lot). And if I'm right, well then good for me. And if another religion happens to actually be correct, then I might be screwed. But if you're like LMS and simply believe someone's up there, you've basically given yourself the best chance possible.

What about worshipping false gods? Every religion in the world says that if you don't worship their god, you're going to hell. The odds of your god being the correct one (and existing) are astronomical.
 
Why spoil it for him, eh? Wouldn't it be funny if he turned out to be right after all?

I look at it like this. If I'm wrong and there is no God, I've got nothing to lose by going to church anyway (Well, other than about an hour of my weekend which doesn't mean a whole lot). And if I'm right, well then good for me. And if another religion happens to actually be correct, then I might be screwed. But if you're like LMS and simply believe someone's up there, you've basically given yourself the best chance possible.

You also lose 10 percent of your income and a good portion of your ability for independent thought.

I doubt it. Deities in general seem to be preoccupied with this whole worship business. Not too many look kindly on well meaning non believers regardless of a generalized belief in god. Pretty much all on nothing with those guys.

What about worshipping false gods? Every religion in the world says that if you don't worship their god, you're going to hell. The odds of your god being the correct one (and existing) are astronomical.
This. I've been trying to explain this to a friend today. Somehow, he thinks this works in his favor since his god is clearly the only real one. :lol:
 
Hypothetically, what if there's a god who rewards people for using their rational minds to realize that a god probably doesn't exist, as there's no evidence for it?

What, just so he can surprise them in the end so he may say "Aha, see, I really do exist". :confused:

Or what if there's a god who rewards people just for being good people, whether or not you believe in god?

That would be the God I believe in.



What about worshipping false gods? Every religion in the world says that if you don't worship their god, you're going to hell.

That's not true depending on who you ask.

The odds of your god being the correct one (and existing) are astronomical.

Well it's a tad better than rejecting all of them.



You also lose 10 percent of your income and a good portion of your ability for independent thought.

I don't tive, and I'm most definitely a free and independent thinker.

I doubt it. Deities in general seem to be preoccupied with this whole worship business. Not too many look kindly on well meaning non believers regardless of a generalized belief in god.

Sure they do, well, at least mine does.
 
Arguing Pascal's Wager has never made sense to me, even more so when done by an atheist. Pretending to believe in something on the off chance that it may be true is silly, and if you don't believe in God then why would you care what he may say or reward when you don't meet him.

Both sides are stating they don't want to miss out, just in case. I don't want to miss out on a free steak and beer feast that might happen at the local tavern, but I don't camp in the parking lot my whole life waiting for it. If they have one but I'm not invited, I won't waste time pleading my case either.
 
I'm generally a good person, but I will poke fun at religion. Nothing like insult people's beliefs(at least not to their face). I only say this because yesterday I was at Border book store(going out of business :indiff:) and moved a bunch of books on religion to the 'Fiction' section :sly:
I'm sure it might have insulted some people, but really, I don't see any facts that prove there is a god.


I don't believe in god, and don't care if people I know and talk to do believe. I'm not going to hate on you if you are religious, as long as you aren't a jerk about me not being religious.
 
What, just so he can surprise them in the end so he may say "Aha, see, I really do exist". :confused:
No, so he can say, "Congrats, you lived your life through reason, here's a million cheesecakes!" You would think an omniscient god would realize that there is no evidence to today's humans that a god exists. Perhaps a nice god would appreciate that humans realize this, rather than punishing them for eternity.
That would be the God I believe in.
So you believe in a god that rewards people for being good, not for being believers? Would that not be pretty much the same as the one I just mentioned, that you think is so absurd?
That's not true depending on who you ask.
You don't have to ask anyone, just read the books of those particular religions. They make it pretty clear. (Though it's not all religions, but quite a few)
Well it's a tad better than rejecting all of them.
Not really. Especially if you believe just to give you the best chance at heaven, rather than actually "knowing" it to be true. Most gods would be able to tell that your belief is not genuine.
I don't tive, and I'm most definitely a free and independent thinker.
I can see from your post that this is definitely true. However, I don't think you've considered all the factors yet.
Sure they do, well, at least mine does.
Assuming you're Christian (if you're not, nevermind), the Bible makes it pretty clear that non believers go to hell, whether or not they were the most generous people alive. In fact, just doubting God is an unforgivable sin:

"Therefore, I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come." (Matthew 12:31)

So basically, just by having this discussion your pretty much out of luck.

Arguing Pascal's Wager has never made sense to me, even more so when done by an atheist. Pretending to believe in something on the off chance that it may be true is silly, and if you don't believe in God then why would you care what he may say or reward when you don't meet him.

Both sides are stating they don't want to miss out, just in case. I don't want to miss out on a free steak and beer feast that might happen at the local tavern, but I don't camp in the parking lot my whole life waiting for it. If they have one but I'm not invited, I won't waste time pleading my case either.
I agree with you completely on this. I'm an atheist because I don't think there's a god, not because I feel there may be some benefit to it if the right god happens to exist. I would like to think though, that if there is a god (which is possible, I just don't think it's true) that it would be kind enough to favor morality and reason, rather than worship. But that has no bearing on whether or not I believe in one.
 
I agree with you completely on this. I'm an atheist because I don't think there's a god, not because I feel there may be some benefit to it if the right god happens to exist. I would like to think though, that if there is a god (which is possible, I just don't think it's true) that it would be kind enough to favor morality and reason, rather than worship. But that has no bearing on whether or not I believe in one.

Beautifully put sir. 👍
 
No, so he can say, "Congrats, you lived your life through reason, here's a million cheesecakes!" You would think an omniscient god would realize that there is no evidence to today's humans that a god exists. Perhaps a nice god would appreciate that humans realize this, rather than punishing them for eternity.

I just don't really see a point in that, but I can't say it's not possible.

So you believe in a god that rewards people for being good, not for being believers? Would that not be pretty much the same as the one I just mentioned, that you think is so absurd?

It is, to an extent. Although I wouldn't consider it absurd, just a bit odd. Those who follow him are good to go, those who do not but are good people in life also make it. I haven't really come to any conclusion regarding Heaven or Hell. I am a christian, but I don't treat the Bible as a factual book, rather, just a book of morals on how to live (Excluding all its blasphemy).

You don't have to ask anyone, just read the books of those particular religions. They make it pretty clear. (Though it's not all religions, but quite a few)

Unless you're like me and don't believe precisely what your "book" says.

Not really. Especially if you believe just to give you the best chance at heaven, rather than actually "knowing" it to be true. Most gods would be able to tell that your belief is not genuine.

I don't. I believe for reasons based on life experiences and faith.

I can see from your post that this is definitely true. However, I don't think you've considered all the factors yet.Assuming you're Christian (if you're not, nevermind), the Bible makes it pretty clear that non believers go to hell, whether or not they were the most generous people alive. In fact, just doubting God is an unforgivable sin:

"Therefore, I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come." (Matthew 12:31)

So basically, just by having this discussion your pretty much out of luck.

The Bible was written by people, not God himself. Like I said, I don't always take everything in the Bible word for word.
 
As long as you don't see the Bible as absolute fact, it doesn't really matter to me what you believe. It's the ones who think they have to stone everyone for sins and hate people for not believing that are dangerous.

I do however feel that the life experiences that you've had that led you to believe can be explained by natural events instead of supernatural. But I can't really prove that since I wasn't there.
 
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