3D3 Racing: WRS-based races moved to new WRS sub-forum!

LeftyWright69 · Oct 13, 2011

The sooner we know about the TT times being applied to the starting grid the sooner we'll know that the combo takes on a greater importance. It would be cool if EDK could put something in the combo description about it having a duel purpose. 👍

WRP001
Lefty is one hard dude to get past. He drives clean, but knows how to hold his position and how to re-pass. 👍 I tried to bump draft him a few laps as we were closing on Gooners, but didn't ask his permission... hope that was OK?

I like to think that my real world experience shows through even in cyber space. It's just that I don't know how ruff I can get in these races so I pick the "verry British" way and drive all proper and all

Man I'll tell ya even when I don't finish up near the front the racin was the best. A couple of daredevel wedge moves going into the buss stop were a little bit of a call for a scrap so I bowed out rather then throw the race away. Other then that everyone showd a great deal of skill and I finally got that close racing feeling that I was hoping the game could give....... Thankzzz

CSLACR · Oct 13, 2011

EDK
My apologies to Gooners, as I made a couple comments out of frustration after that last lap incident, that was really just a racing incident and nothing more. Between my turn 1 error while leading and then getting screwed by the pit stop gods, my head was not in the right place, but that's not your fault.

I watched the replay, and you and I were racing close, and any contact we had was incidental and not intentional. So again, sorry, and thanks for the racing. 👍

Great racing by everyone, I had a good time, although I know my potential performance was much better than my actual. I'll just have to be better next time....

With that, I present to you the Incredible Flying MadMax86.

Reminds me of Bad Boys II, "They throwin cars, How would I not see dat!?!?" :lol:

Don't worry about your on track mistakes to much yet Kev, it takes a while getting used to having real live competitors swarming around you, at least it did for me. 👍
Hell I still haven't run a single race to my full potential, it's a whole different world really trying to push for 20+ laps in any combo back-to-back, especially with all the people around.

yanaran
I think a formation lap like at Monaco is the way to go regardless of whether we find the reason for the messed up starting grid. Warms the tires a bit, makes the field a little more stretched out and there are no surprises at the start - everyone's where they're supposed to be. I think I would've had a much more enjoyable race if I could've just taken off on marky's bumper as he probably would've opened up a gap on me leaving a clear road in front. Now I was confused, missed turn1 with cold tires, caught in a mix of slower/faster traffic and started bumping people left and right. Not a good situation for me since this was only my second time online and first time with a noticeable draft.

Come to think of it, I'd opened a 1.3 second lead heading into the bus stop, I had the gap to run away on lap 1, blew it at the bus stop, got 5 seconds, and I was lucky to keep the draft. :lol:

And below---V

WRP001
Remember a formation lap isn't perfect either. In our NA race @ Monaco Lefty starting 2nd thanks to Kaz's bad quali record keeping and couldn't see CSL who started 1st. Lefty took off after the formation lap thinking he was in the lead not knowing CSL was still waiting for the rest of the grid. It's pretty hard to manage a clean rolling start with people inhabiting alternate planes of existence.

Next week I'm putting my steward's vote in for using the WRS time as your quali time and a formation lap to sort out the order. Leaves us more time for racing so a slightly longer race as we start the race countdown 15 mins past the hour instead of 30 past the hour.

Our 3D3 plan from the beginning was to shuffle the options weekly including fastest first vs reverse grid, grid start vs rolling start, pre-race online quali vs WRS time quali. Variety is the spice of life and we don't have to stick to just one formula 👍

Here's the EU Race Video Highlights (Just the first 4 laps):

The trick I think that would help us, is running the formation lap as the first lap of the race.
So for this week's (Daytona) as an example, we'd set the race to "26" laps, roll into position, and casually drive through the first lap, then once the last car clears the last turn, pole decides when to go, it does good things keeping the field from cramming into the first turn, and also ensure start order 100%.

I prefer standing starts, but we haven't been allowed to get those properly, so just a suggestion to make sure everything at least goes as planned.

WRP001 · Oct 13, 2011

British Invasion Online NA Results:

CSL nabbed fastest race lap and pole position (Kaz got that right). MadMax got the win and was the biggest mover, gaining 5 spots from where Kaz put him on the starting grid.

Live Stats Leader Board for NA Race:

sidplayos2 · Oct 13, 2011

EDK
With that, I present to you the Incredible Flying MadMax86.

I've heard of someone driving through the field but that's just ridiculous :sly:

Any AU/NZ'ers want to make a 3rd timeslot, feel like i'm missing out a lot of fun here :grumpy:

If you guys had them on the weekends I could stay up but Wed night/Thurs morning :crazy:

Looks fun! 👍

EDK · Oct 13, 2011

CSLACR
Don't worry about your on track mistakes to much yet Kev, it takes a while getting used to having real live competitors swarming around you, at least it did for me. 👍
Hell I still haven't run a single race to my full potential, it's a whole different world really trying to push for 20+ laps in any combo back-to-back, especially with all the people around.

Well, I've run a lot of online in the Prologue days, not as much on GT5 to date. So driving in traffic is not the issue for me.

I think where I lose out is that I'm typically the one person in the race that has not run a practice race or the EU time slot. So getting used to how the car handles with tire wear, learning braking points in the draft, etc. are the tricky parts. Plus there's a lot of people in here that I haven't run with. Those I've done a lot of races with, I know exactly what to expect from them.

Will have to make some time over the weekends to run some of the event online in my own race to get used to some of that, rather than waiting for Wednesday night to come and just jumping in.

sidplayos2
I've heard of someone driving through the field but that's just ridiculous

Any AU/NZ'ers want to make a 3rd timeslot, feel like i'm missing out a lot of fun here If you guys had them on the weekends I could stay up but Wed night/Thurs morning

Looks fun! 👍

You're welcome to work with these guys in an attempt to make a time slot for your area of the world. 👍

yanaran · Oct 13, 2011

WRP of course you're right - it's not perfect, but I still think it's a little better. Maybe not as fun, but easier to get things started right

. Qualifying I'm fine with whatever you guys go with!

I want to ask the more seasoned racers a question also. At about 2:30 in the video above I'm right on sjaak's bumper out of turn 1 and pop out to his right just before turn 2. I didn't actually plan on diving on the inside I just wanted to show myself, brake early and see if he might leave me an opening to pass (and get better visibility on the turn, I was too close to him to see). Because of his draft I misjudged my braking point and suddenly I had nowhere to go and when we were about 1/3 into the corner we exchanged some paint and I probably pushed him off his line a little. When I saw him ease off I decided to go wide and give him the spot back (Hydro also snuck by the dirty bastard hehe), was that the right thing to do in this situation considering the mistake had already been made? Just hoping to learn here :guilty:

LeftyWright69 · Oct 13, 2011

sidplayos2
Any AU/NZ'ers want to make a 3rd timeslot, feel like i'm missing out a lot of fun here

I knew this kind of program couldn't help but gather momentum and now maybe a Kiwi franchise. Next year I can see a GTP World Online Driving Championship. If GT5 could just refine the track maker so we could hold it in land of Jordonia at the Jordonplex ...... :lol:

WRP001 · Oct 13, 2011

EDK
I think where I lose out is that I'm typically the one person in the race that has not run a practice race or the EU time slot. So getting used to how the car handles with tire wear, learning braking points in the draft, etc. are the tricky parts. Plus there's a lot of people in here that I haven't run with. Those I've done a lot of races with, I know exactly what to expect from them.:

Definitely the practice sessions help and running the EU race also helps, but last night I was also suffering from fatigue so there is a fine line between too little and too much. :lol:

If I had to pick one though I'd pick too much :sly:

3D3 will attempt to host at least two "official" practice session every week. Usually an NA practice on Monday after WRS becomes official and a EU practice on Tuesday.

However, we definitely encourage anyone to hold practice sessions in their own lounges and just post here in the thread if they would like other people to join them. Or of course don't post if you just want your own private practice. Obviously the more notice you give ahead of time the more likely someone else will join you. Each event post will have the lounge settings spelled out exactly so you can replicate the settings. Some things like draft and safe passing zones can only be practiced with other drivers on track with you and in race mode.

And I agree completely that as we race together we learn what to expect from each other and it gets easier to manage. No different from real life racing I would assume.

All that being said this series was created to service multiple divisions with widely varying skill levels and experience levels. This is not professional or expert only so just understand people are going to make mistakes. When/if we reverse grid (as we did with Groceries) the fast guys in the back will have to be understanding as us slower guys make mistakes in front of them. NOTE: We will always give the option for a less experienced driver to start in the back regardless if they are not comfortable out front with aliens in the mirror. :lol:

If we get to the point where we have more than 16 drivers we will split up the field based on speed as well, but for now we've got just the right number of drivers for just one event in each time slot.

Hydro · Oct 13, 2011

yanaran
I want to ask the more seasoned racers a question also. At about 2:30 in the video above I'm right on sjaak's bumper out of turn 1 and pop out to his right just before turn 2. I didn't actually plan on diving on the inside I just wanted to show myself, brake early and see if he might leave me an opening to pass (and get better visibility on the turn, I was too close to him to see). Because of his draft I misjudged my braking point and suddenly I had nowhere to go and when we were about 1/3 into the corner we exchanged some paint and I probably pushed him off his line a little. When I saw him ease off I decided to go wide and give him the spot back (Hydro also snuck by the dirty bastard hehe), was that the right thing to do in this situation considering the mistake had already been made? Just hoping to learn here

I just watched the replay, and I also remember the turn, so I'll throw in my opinion.

You took an aggressive inside line - not exactly a bad / dirty line, but an aggressive one.
You had didn't quite complete the pass and were basically side-by-side, but in doing so, you ran a bit fast into the corner, and missed the brake point. (draft most likely had a play in that).
Sjaak starts to turn in, and it appeared that he was aware of your position, as he didn't turn in tight to the corner. Had you hit the brake zone correctly, it might have been a very cool 2 -wide through the turn scenario.
However, he (Sjaak) couldn't compensate for your brake error, as he most likely could not see you.
When you went wide, I assumed that you had missed the line / brake zone, and jumped on the opportunity, passing you as well, it's a race after all :sly:

In situations like this, I would always give back the spot to the driver I passed in a manouvre like that.
It's the proper etiquette, and is the prescribed remedy as per the OLR Rules: (7A)

05: Rules Governing Car Contact:

A:
Contacts and collisions must be avoided at all costs.

B:
Pushing other cars in turns or pushing them off the track is strictly prohibited.

C:
Leaning on other cars is strictly prohibited in any situation.

06: Running into the car ahead of you:

A:
The behind driver must take all necessary care and responsibility not to run into an ahead driver.

B:
In case you brake too late for a corner or partially lose control of your car, but can prevent an accident by steering into the dirt, grass or a wall, you are expected to do so.

C:
The ahead driver must not do any malicious or inappropriate braking or slowing. Leading cars MUST NOT EVER 'brake check' the car(s) behind them because they are following too closely. The ahead driver IS entitled to be slower or use longer and earlier braking zones than others. They are also entitled to turn in earlier or later and/or apex earlier or later.

07: Contact Concessions:

A:
If there’s contact between drivers that results in the guilty driver making up places on the innocent driver, the guilty driver should immediately allow the innocent driver to pass freely to re-establish their position. This rule should be observed, even if it means the guilty driver has to allow drivers not involved in the incident to pass while waiting for the driver they contacted.

B:
If the appropriate contact concession is carried out by the guilty driver then they may avoid or reduce the severity of any penalties that might otherwise apply.

C:
If the appropriate contact concession is not carried out by the guilty party then the usual penalties would apply.

D:
If you have to slow down to let the other player through, move out of the racing line first before you slow down. Coming to a full stop is not allowed, just continue at a lower pace until the other driver passes you again.

08: Corner Rights:

A:
When approaching the turn/apex of turn, the car which "holds" the inner side of turn has entrance-advantage and other driver(s) must refrain from endangering him by his actions.

B:
You must establish substantial overlap with the car ahead before they reach the corner’s turn-in point to have the right to drive up their inside, or to expect them to leave inside room for you. At least the front of your car should be up to the driver’s position in the ahead car. The ahead driver has the right to be fully committed to the racing line of their choice without any interference if there was no substantial overlap before he turned in.

C:
If sufficient overlap is established before the turn-in point, then the behind driver has the right to sufficient side room. The ahead driver must also leave sufficient side room for the behind driver. This means that each driver has a right to their respective "line", or side of the track, right up to the exit point. Neither driver should squeeze the other toward the inside or outside of the corner during the apex or exit.

D:
If an ahead driver has clearly made an error to warrant a passing move, a behind driver may attack their position, with due caution and care, regardless of whether there was any pre-existing overlap. However, the overtaking driver must still avoid contact. Small errors by the ahead driver may not justify a passing move. The ahead driver getting a bit out of shape at times doesn’t give you an automatic right to pass. You still have to judge if their error allows for a safe pass to take place.

E:
Drivers who are using PS2/PS3 controller MUST make additional effort in driving due to the fact they can't use side-view, and their perception of the other cars is thereby limited - extreme caution while maneuvering is required. If you are using a controller, you are required to set buttons up for side views as "I didn't see you." is not an excuse if you collide with another driver when racing.

Enough of me sounding like a lawyer though :lol:

Any / every driver is going to make mistakes at some point, it's part of racing

But the point is, you did the right thing in giving the spot back 👍

This is a perfect example of how headsets can help.
In Monaco I did basically the exact same thing to Lucas (Gravitron) in the final corner on one of the laps, and told him I blew the corner, and I was slowing / keeping to the right side so he could slip back in.

LeftyWright69 · Oct 13, 2011

yanaran
I decided to go wide and give him the spot back (Hydro also snuck by the dirty bastard hehe), was that the right thing to do in this situation considering the mistake had already been made? Just hoping to learn here

In an nut shell, if ya stuff someone and blowum out of their line ..... :lol:

It's only "Cricket" to let the chap take his spot back. 👍

Hydro · Oct 13, 2011

mohitraina91
Haha I always thought of Toronto Hydro before I knew your name. Lucky I guess I didn't lose any power, cuz the storm was pretty bad.

Thats some serious air MadMax

EDIT: Thanks for hosting Tim!

👍
I didn't even realize you were in Toronto!
For some reason, I thought you were in Vancouver :confused:

I'm in the Beaches / Ashbridges bay area, and it was really only about 2 sq. kms that was out for the night. Power was back by just after 1 am - almost 5 hrs later.
I could see the Queen street cars going and the street lights were on there as well, but between Lakeshore and Queen, it was all dark.
It wasn't that bad a storm, but something got knocked down somewhere 👎

WRP001 · Oct 13, 2011

LeftyWright69
The sooner we know about the TT times being applied to the starting grid the sooner we'll know that the combo takes on a greater importance.

👍 This post serves as an official notice to 3D3 participating drivers.

For the next event, Weds Forest Online, we will be using the following procedures:

WRS submitted time used to order starting position for drivers
Fastest First
Formation Lap w/Rolling Start
Race starts at 15 past the hour and will be slightly longer as quali is not required
First 15 minutes will be used to organize order and formation lap
Lounge will be open one hour before race start for open practice
GTP_Hydro will be the host for both events (assuming his power holds up) and we won't switch rooms for practice/race as there will be no qualification and thus no need to "reset" the room.

Full details to follow later today in the full event post.

LeftyWright69 · Oct 13, 2011

WRP001
[*]Fastest First

I know that this race is set but IMHO when you mix the classes in a race w/ the length of these races It's only fair that the fastest guys are forced to come from the back row. Heck they have an hour to pass what 10 - 12 guys? That shouldn't be that big of a task for the skill level the D1 catz have...... food for thought

You know that there aren't any sandbagers in the WRS so you can be assured that the times are rock solid.

EDK · Oct 13, 2011

LeftyWright69
I know that this race is set but IMHO when you mix the classes in a race w/ the length of these races It's only fair that the fastest guys are forced to come from the back row. Heck they have an hour to pass what 10 - 12 guys? That shouldn't be that big of a task for the skill level the D1 catz have...... food for thought

You know that there aren't any sandbagers in the WRS so you can be assured that the times are rock solid.

I don't really agree that this should be the norm. It's fun on occasion, but it really causes more chances for incidents and takes away some of the importance you mention of placing well in the weekly race.

LeftyWright69 · Oct 13, 2011

EDK
I don't really agree that this should be the norm. It's fun on occasion, but it really causes more chances for incidents and takes away some of the importance you mention of placing well in the weekly race.

This is just like bracket racing where you could race a 17 sec. car against a top fuel dragster and have a fair race. It also goes to the fact that it is a car race and not a TT. Equilizing the competition has been something that has been used in racing to make the outcome closer as long as there has been racing. If a driver is a good racer they will find a way around or there not where they need to be in their skill set.

EDK · Oct 13, 2011

LeftyWright69
This is just like bracket racing where you could race a 17 sec. car against a top fuel dragster and have a fair race. It also goes to the fact that it is a car race and not a TT. Equilizing the competition has been something that has been used in racing to make the outcome closer as long as there has been racing. If a driver is a good racer they will find a way around or there not where they need to be in there skill set.

If you want to equalize, do it with ballast or other means, not with grid position.

WRP001 · Oct 13, 2011

OK guys. We are going to change it up from week to week anyway and nobody is right as this is just a matter of opinion, preference and event "style".

I personally prefer fastest first when we use race cars OR tracks where passing is difficult (Monaco) and then we mix it up a little more with road cars or FF cars where passing is easier and/or the race a little less technical.

We do plan to occasionally do slowest first as I do agree it throws in a little something different and worked pretty well in the Groceries event. But definitely not every week or the majority of time... just as a change of pace.

Having said that, if we do Spa in a following week with a race car my vote would be to use the same formula as we're using for Weds Forest.

Another thought Lefty. You can also consider the divisions like a mix class race. Where you are really competing against the other guys in your division. In a Super GT race if you are in a GT 300 car you are not trying to beat the GT 500 guys, but instead the goal is to take first in your class. Think of it like that in these races with the aliens out front and pretend they are running 200 extra hp. :lol:

I'm just psyched that you guys all care enough to share your opinions and take part in these races. 👍 Hopefully even with a few technical glitches here and there and not every race satisfying everyone to perfection it's a great time and you guys keep coming back for more. Because as long as you guys are running I'll be there as there is no better place for me to get this type of racing online!

EDK
If you want to equalize, do it with ballast or other means, not with grid position.

I wouldn't mind throwing ballast into a race sometime also, but wouldn't know exactly how to pull it off so it was a good equalizer and not too much one way or the other. Would require some testing for sure and a few participants in the test from various divisions/speeds.

Again, just to mix it up once in a while and not a regular thing.

LeftyWright69 · Oct 13, 2011

So we race our division eventhough were cross-polinated at the start? If that is the case then maybe the divisions should be broke up into car colors. Red - D1, Blue - D2, etc. that would help to make division passes

Vagabond · Oct 13, 2011

My tuppence in the mix - I think we should look into a ballast system based on the placements/times from the WRS that week. For participants who do not run the WRS but still wish to race, they can be assigned ballast according to current handicap. Research would need to be done on ballast and its effect on lap time, which I am happy to help with should the idea be taken forward. Of course this would not work in non-tuning events....

Oh and sign me up for Weds Forest please chaps. I shall endeavour to finish the race this time, even if the damned Husky climbs on me again.

WRP001 · Oct 13, 2011

Vagabond
My tuppence in the mix - I think we should look into a ballast system based on the placements/times from the WRS that week. For participants who do not run the WRS but still wish to race, they can be assigned ballast according to current handicap. Research would need to be done on ballast and its effect on lap time, which I am happy to help with should the idea be taken forward. Of course this would not work in non-tuning events....

Oh and sign me up for Weds Forest please chaps. I shall endeavour to finish the race this time, even if the damned Husky climbs on me again.

Cool on both points.

@Registration: Your the first officially registered for the EU race and we haven't even put up the event post yet! But the OP says sign-ups open and they are! :lol:

@Ballast: The tough part is we don't have a lot of notice for our events so testing time is limited. At most 10 days since Kevin posts the combo at the earliest on a Sunday and we have to race on the following Wednesday. People probably have to get used to driving the car with the ballast so we have to give them a little notice as well on the exact ballast amount. I say we try it for an event as a test, but not until after Spa... let's do that one in it's original glory. After spa we can organize a testing team of drivers for one of the following events (I'll take part and I assume Hydro will as well) and come up with a formula for ballast based on WRS finish/handicap as you say. How would we do qualifying in that event? I would assume live qualifying would make sense since WRS would be without ballast/handicap and each driver should qualify with their assigned ballast.

Hydro · Oct 13, 2011

LeftyWright69
So we race our division eventhough were cross-polinated at the start? If that is the case then maybe the divisions should be broke up into car colors. Red - D1, Blue - D2, etc. that would help to make division passes

With a mix of all divisions on the track, I really think it is a bit much to ask the top qualifiers to start in the back, just to even out the field every week.
As Tim pointed out, we aren't going to run the same quali / start setup for every event. Sometimes just to make it interesting, sometimes just because

Regarding race / WRS divisions, I love the fact that although I usually battle with drivers in my division during the race, trying to keep up with the better drivers is really fun, and quite a challenge. I really don't go into the race expecting to win, but I'm certainly going to try

Using F1 as an example:
I don't seriously expect Rubens Barrichello to beat Sebastien Vettel, but I do expect them both to have as good a race as they are capable of driving.

The whole point of this series was to hold fun, competitive races with drivers that we basically know in one way or another from the WRS.
Sort of a "come one, come all", winner buys the beer scenario :cheers:

Ideally, I'd like to see 2 races per time zone each week.
One for Div1-3, one for Div 3-5, with D3 drivers given the option of running in either, depending on how the fields fill up.
Realistically though, that's what the re-vamped OMRS sounds like it will be 👍, and I'm sure a lot of us will be all over that series once it starts back up.
3D3 Racing is still a very small start-up, as racing series go, and it will be interesting to see just how big we get :lol:

So far this series has been a tremendous experience for me, and I'm sure Lucas and Tim agree that it has exceeded our expectations in almost every way. 👍

There's a good reason for that. Great drivers, great combo's, and a lot of really fun racing

Edit -

WRP001
@Ballast: The tough part is we don't have a lot of notice for our events so testing time is limited. At most 10 days since Kevin posts the combo at the earliest on a Sunday and we have to race on the following Wednesday. People probably have to get used to driving the car with the ballast so we have to give them a little notice as well on the exact ballast amount. I say we try it for an event as a test, but not until after Spa... let's do that one in it's original glory. After spa we can organize a testing team of drivers for one of the following events (I'll take part and I assume Hydro will as well) and come up with a formula for ballast based on WRS finish/handicap as you say. How would we do qualifying in that event? I would assume live qualifying would make sense since WRS would be without ballast/handicap and each driver should qualify with their assigned ballast.

My thoughts on ballast:
To keep it simple, would it be appropriate to assign ballast according to where drivers finished in the WRS rankings?

For example: Tim, myself and Gooners finished with a D2 time this week, so we get a D2 ballast assignment :nervous:

If drivers finished within their division (or didn't run the combo), they get their respective division's ballast assignment.

But as Chris pointed out, this won't work in non-tuning weeks.
We would also obviously require the assistance of a few other drivers as well, in order to get the system right, as we've not had any experience in leveling the playing field this way.

yanaran · Oct 13, 2011

Thanks for the feedback guys. I just assumed that with me being the new guy I was probably in the wrong and should yield.

I'm in for next week too but I'll need a bit more practice driving in groups with draft this time instead of free runs.

If you want some more opinions on the series and the above discussions, I think ballast is a better option than messing with the grid. Although to avoid too much hassle it should be kept pretty modest and maybe just be set by division. Say 1% for div2 and 2% for div1, with an extra % if a d1g shows up. :sly:

I also think we should do away with penalties. On Daytona it felt like the only penalties you got where from mistakes or accidents out of your control. Usually you've already lost time and/or position then and it just seems harsh to punish even further. This feels more like a friendly race series to begin with and I don't think any WRS drivers cheat on purpose, and someone will see if you try; maybe not right away, but the next time, or in replays... Who wants to be known as the dirty corner-cutter in these circles?

Anyway that's just my opinion, feel free to ignore it

mohitraina91 · Oct 13, 2011

WRP001
I've seen GT5 mess up the starting grid several times in the last couple weeks. If you end up starting in the wrong position that's just a tough break (or lucky break as the case may be). I went from #2 to dead last on the grid last week at Monaco due to the glitch. Take the chance to enjoy going through the field. Best bet is not to leave the track at all during quali. If you are done you can just pit and hit start, but stay in the pits. Or just park on track somewhere you'll be out of the way and watch everyone else.

I made this mistake yesterday in the EU race, I left the track before the race began. I think that messed the grid order up and put me at the back. But the in NA race I think no one left so the grid order was intact.

Maybe one practice session we can start one of those 5 lap races, while making sure no one leaves the track before the race starts. Its just a theory, but hoping this will fix it.

HYDRO
I didn't even realize you were in Toronto!
For some reason, I thought you were in Vancouver

Haha I've got no idea why.
By the lake, that's awesome 👍. I'm actually in ssauga but I'm at Ryerson everyday.

WRP001 · Oct 13, 2011

yanaran
I also think we should do away with penalties. On Daytona it felt like the only penalties you got where from mistakes or accidents out of your control. Usually you've already lost time and/or position then and it just seems harsh to punish even further. This feels more like a friendly race series to begin with and I don't think any WRS drivers cheat on purpose, and someone will see if you try; maybe not right away, but the next time, or in replays... Who wants to be known as the dirty corner-cutter in these circles?

Anyway that's just my opinion, feel free to ignore it

Always good to get opinions. The one nice side effect of penalties is that if a driver is lapped he gets ghosted and can't impact the leaders. Or in some cases a driver out of control (due to grass or something) rams you from behind or is recovering from an off track incident they often (not always) get ghosted and it can avoid some carnage. On a track like Monaco I actually think it was a good idea as it could avoid a total pileup on a narrow track -- which never happened due to the skill of the drivers.

Watch the replay and see how many times the penalties actually saved a driver from ramming another driver that was out of control and lose time due to no fault of his own. Penalties like that probably offset the kind you experienced.

At GP/F I got a key penalty in the 3D3 race for cutting the final chicane chasing Hydro and it cost me a chance at a top 2 finish. I deserved the penalty in that case as I cut the corner... not intentionally with the idea of doing it, but I just carried too much speed and was careless... I took the risk going in there too hot and would have reaped the rewards if I was clean and paid the price because I wasn't. Without penalties I would certainly give back any spots gained from said incident, but not sure I would have it in my adrenaline flushed brain to pull over for 5 seconds and count in my head. :lol:

It does stink when you are avoiding someone else or a wreck and get a penalty out of no fault of your own and don't gain time out of it. That also happened to me in the same GP/F race when I was punted under braking across the chicane and incurred two penalties in one pass -- no fault of my own. It was just a racing incident and it's not always fair, but racing in real life isn't always fair either.

Last night in the NA race drivers did cut the bus stop by themselves (not a huge cut, but not WRS clean) and got a penalty because they were pushing it too much trying to shave time. They decided on their entry speed, they took the risk and in my opinion those penalties were deserved and rightly served just as mine was on GP/F.

I'm fine changing that setting on a per event basis weighing the pluses and minuses. However, my vote is that if we are on a track and there is a section that going a little too fast and risking being a little dirty can save you time or close a gap (like the bus stop) then we should keep penalties on weak. D1 drivers show every week in WRS how they can push the limits of clean and do incredible laps, but they should also pay the price when they choose to take that risk and go over the edge. GT5 is more forgiving and gives you more space than the WRS rules and that's enough for me that if you go over that threshold you should get a penalty.

Yokumaru · Oct 13, 2011

Sign me up : GTP_Chia

WRP001 · Oct 13, 2011

Presents...

Weds Forest Online

Disclaimer: This is *NOT* an official GTPlanet or WRS sanctioned event and members are not obligated to take part.

Event Summary

Title: Weds Forest Online
Event: Online adaptation of the GTP_WRS (GT5) Week 35 Event: Weds Forest
Location: GTP_Hydro's Lounge
Date: Wednesday October 19

North American Race

Practice: 6:00 PM Pacific / 9:00 PM Eastern / (GMT = Oct 20 @ 1:00 AM)
Pre-Race: 7:00 PM Pacific / 10:00 PM Eastern / (GMT = Oct 20 @ 2:00 AM)
Race Start: 7:15 PM Pacific / 10:15 PM Eastern / (GMT = Oct 20 @ 2:15 AM)
Race End: After 46 laps. ~60 minutes.

European Race

Practice: 11:00 AM Pacific / 2:00 PM Eastern / 6:00 PM GMT
Pre-Race: 12:00 PM Pacific / 3:00 PM Eastern / 7:00 PM GMT
Race Start: 12:15 PM Pacific / 3:15 PM Eastern / 7:15 PM GMT
Race End: After 46 laps. ~60 minutes.

Eligibility for this 3D3 event will include GTP_Registered members plus referred drivers. A registry member can make a referral for this event by simply including other drivers PSN IDs with their own registration request in this thread. To guarantee eligibility for all 3D3 events run the GTP_Registry qualifier and join the registry now!

Registration

Reply to this thread and include in the text of the message your GTP_ PSN ID, the title of this event and which event (EU, NA or Both). To sign up (refer) a driver not on the GTP_Registry, a registered driver should include the PSN ID of the non registered driver(s) in their post.
Send a PSN friend request to GTP_WRP001 and GTP_Hydro with subject line "3D3 Racing" if you haven't already done so. Any referred driver(s) will also need to submit a friend request.

There is a 16 car/driver limit for this event and slots are awarded on the grid using a first come first serve basis. Reference the registered drivers list below for availability. This is a stand alone race and points are not tallied for a series. Future races hosted by 3D3 racing may have different driver limits and will require re-registration using the same first come first serve basis and participation in future events is optional.

If for some reason, after you register for the event, you are unable to attend the race please send a PM to one of the 3D3 racing stewards or post in the thread so we can update the registration list and make the spot available to another driver.

Lounge Settings

Race Quality: Standard
Voice Chat Quality: Standard. Race stewards will be mic'd for the event. If you have mic or keyboard you can use it.

Track/Car

Track: Deep Forest
Car: Premium > Lexus > Weds Sport IS350 '08

Vehicle Specifics:

Power: 361 HP (Stock Car with Oil Change and Stage 3 Engine Tuning) - goes up to 372 with engine break In.
Engine, Intake, and Exhaust Modifications: N/A
Turbo and Supercharger: Not Allowed
Engine Power Limiter: N/A
Oil Change : Required
Weight: 1150 KG MIN (Use of Ballast and Ballast Adjustment is Optional).
Transmission: Optional - OK to alter individual gear ratios and final drive ratio
Aero: Up to Maximum Downforce is Allowed
Tire Type: Racing Hard (R1's)
Other Modifications: Optional (Chassis Reinforcement, Transmission, Drivetrain, Suspension)
In Event Tuning Settings: Optional - Any tuning gimmicks that offer an unfair advantage are not allowed. These would be things like the Subaru Toe Bug found on GT5 Prologue.

Event Settings

Game Mode: Normal Race
Laps: 46 (Lap 1 = Formation Lap)
Start Type: Rolling Start w/Formation Lap Details here.
Grid Order: Fastest First, Based on Official WRS Results
Boost: No
Penalty: Weak
Automatic Race Start Cycle: Disabled
Race Finish Delay: Set to the Max 180 Seconds
Visible Damage: On
Mechanical Damage: Light
Slipstream Strength: Weak
Tire Wear / Fuel Consumption: On [be aware of cold tires at start or first lap out of pits]
Pit Stops: Allowed and as often as you need to but not required. When exiting the pit lane, remember to stay within pit lane exit boundaries and yield to approaching drivers. If you choose to go without a pitstop (or with fewer) be prepared for the significant speed difference of approaching drivers (see passing/blocking below).

Regulation Settings

Car Restriction: Unrestricted (see vehicle specifics listed above)
Performance Points: N/A
Power: 372 HP MAX
Weight: 1150 KG MIN
Tire Restrictions: Racing Hard
Vehicle Tuning: Unrestricted
Skid Recovery Force Aid: Off
AS | ASM | Driving Line | TCS: Optional

Standard Clean OLR Rules Apply:

Unless otherwise specific all rules from the original WRS event apply.
Please read, and familiarize yourself with the track boundary guidelines specified in the original WRS event.
You are expected to drive clean at all times as if you are racing in the WRS. All participants are required to follow the GTPlanet Online Racing Rules & Guidelines.
3D3 Race Stewards (who are taking part in race, but will review the replay) reserve the right to boot or invalidate the result of any driver from the Race Room for driving offensively. If you ignore any warnings from the stewards and are booted from the race room, you will not be allowed to participate in future 3D3 events.
2 wheels on (or vertically in line with) the track at all times
Rumble/ripple strips are part of the track
Runoff areas are not part of the track
Limit your contact with walls or objects, visible or invisible
No hybrids
No cheating of any kind
Nothing that goes against the spirit of the rules
Passing and Blocking: Aggressive blocking is not permitted, but the driver in front has the right to choose his/her line and braking point and drivers behind should respect that line. Be especially careful when you are on older tires than the competition as the speed difference may be significant. These events are "for fun" so just play nice and take a conservative rather than an aggressive approach when possible.

If for some reason you are unable to finish the race and need to stop:

Pull the car over off the track next to a wall and as far from the driving line as possible
Press the E-Brake
Then press Start
This will ghost your car and it won't allow it to interfere with the other drivers.

Overall winner will be sent a prize (to be announced at race time).

Good Luck,

3D3 Racing:

GTP_WRP001
GTP_Hydro
GTP_Gravitron

NA Drivers Grid

GTP_MadMax86 .....

... Quali Time: 1'12.885 (WRS)
GTP_Worst_Driver .

... Quali Time: 1'13.173 (WRS)
GTP_WRP001 .......

... Quali Time: 1'13.397 (WRS)
GTP_Speedy6543 ...

... Quali Time: 1'13.433 (WRS)
GTPcats_pajamas ..

... Quali Time: 1'13.478 (WRS)
GTP_gooners_17 ...

... Quali Time: 1'13.607 (WRS)
GTP_Hydro (Host) .

... Quali Time: 1'13.753 (WRS)
GTP_LeftyWright ..

... Quali Time: 1'13.930 (WRS)
GTP_Gravitron ....

... Quali Time: 1'14.381 (WRS)
GTP_MilleRSVR ....

... Quali Time: 1'14.491 (WRS)
GTP_RaceRyder ....

... Quali Time: 1'15.083 (WRS)
GTP_Allibubba99 ..

... Quali Time: 1'19.224 (WRS)
GTP_CSL ..........

... Quali Time: NA
GTP_EDK ..........

... Quali Time: NA

EU Drivers Grid

GTP_Vagabond .....

... Quali Time: 1'12.641 (WRS)
GTP_Yanaran ......

... Quali Time: 1'12.666 (WRS)
GTP_MadMax86 .....

... Quali Time: 1'12.885 (WRS)
GTP_Biffy ........

... Quali Time: 1'13.168 (WRS)
GTP_WRP001 .......

... Quali Time: 1'13.397 (WRS)
GTP_Speedy6543 ...

... Quali Time: 1'13.433 (WRS)
GTP_gooners_17 ...

... Quali Time: 1'13.607 (WRS)
GTP_ealirendur ...

... Quali Time: 1'13.729 (WRS)
GTP_Hydro (Host) .

... Quali Time: 1'13.753 (WRS)
GTP_Gravitron ....

... Quali Time: 1'14.381 (WRS)
GTP_Sjaak ........

... Quali Time: 1'14.519 (WRS)
GTP_Don ..........

... Quali Time: 1'15.342 (WRS)
GTP_Markyboy .....

... Quali Time: NA

NA Race Results

EU Race Results

Video Highlights

Live Leaderboards

[YouTube]TJH2ttEtkl8?hd=1[/YouTube]

[YouTube]ID7FZOAnK6E?hd=1[/YouTube]

Pictures

Biffy · Oct 13, 2011

Count me in for the EU race 👍

Yesterday's race was a bit disappointing for me finishing in 7th, although that was solely my fault as I didn't conserve my tires well at all (those of you who saw me drifting round the first corner will know why :crazy:

). However, I enjoyed the race as a whole. Lot of action and overtakes, and no-one was dirty or disrespectful. There were a few mistakes from some people and maybe a few times where I wasn't given a lot of room, however I do not hold any bitter feelings to anyone, I wasn't any better at times, and it is to be expected. We're all human, not perfect racing machines, plus this car was an absolute beast to handle at times. Frankly I enjoyed it quite a lot, had a lot of races recently where the experience has been dissatisfying but this race helped me to start enjoying it again. I look forward to what next week brings.. (flying into the trees :sly:

)

WRP001 · Oct 13, 2011

Yokumaru
Sign me up : GTP_Chia

Are you listed in the official GTP Registry? If so, you are in. If not, you'll need a referral from a driver who is listed and then you can register. 👍

Biffy
Count me in for the EU race 👍

Yesterday's race was a bit disappointing for me finishing in 7th, although that was solely my fault as I didn't conserve my tires well at all (those of you who saw me drifting round the first corner will know why ). However, I enjoyed the race as a whole. Lot of action and overtakes, and no-one was dirty or disrespectful. There were a few mistakes from some people and maybe a few times where I wasn't given a lot of room, however I do not hold any bitter feelings to anyone, I wasn't any better at times, and it is to be expected. We're all human, not perfect racing machines, plus this car was an absolute beast to handle at times. Frankly I enjoyed it quite a lot, had a lot of races recently where the experience has been dissatisfying but this race helped me to start enjoying it again. I look forward to what next week brings.. (flying into the trees )

👍 It was pure luck that I finished in 2nd with the quality of that field and I expect you to whip my tail in a real race car.

EDK · Oct 13, 2011

I'm in again this week.

On the ballast point -

I like the idea of changing things up (I think you guys knew that.)

So some of the races could feature a leveled playing field, where ballast, and not grid position, provide a handicap to the faster racers.

One idea would be to benchmark having everyone qualify at the same time or similar time to the D4 entrants (if there are any). D3 if there are not.

We could do some testing in advance to determine the % ballast that we think should apply to each division, or event to each racer based on their normal handicap or their handicap for that WRS event.

Then we could still qualify as normal, and anyone who significantly out qualifies the benchmark performer would have additional ballast added as a pre-race penalty.

That would all have to be defined, and I think to be fair, would be defined as a % of car weight, rather than a fixed lb. amount. (You would not want the same ballast penalty for a Miata and a Challenger. :sly:

)

Anyhow, just my thoughts on how you might approach this as something for fun.

We could even test the concept as a fun race after the race one week, or try to get together again over the weekend to try it out.

Vagabond · Oct 13, 2011

EDK
We could even test the concept as a fun race after the race one week, or try to get together again over the weekend to try it out.

👍 Sounds like a plan.

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