Suspension Backwards?

  • Thread starter betrob
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betrob

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mrbobta
Hello guys, maybe this topic has been addressed in other threads, but I keep reading different opinions and even phrases like "You do know that GT suspension settings are wrong,the rear settings are for the front "... well the point is this: When I read one of your setup any machine I have to consider the values ​​in reverse for the suspension?
Since in this field are much more experienced than me could someone explain how things really are because I'm a little confused ... thanks to all and sorry for my english...
 
BIG. ASS. CAN. OF. WORMS.

Some say they are, some say they aren't, all we do know is the debate won't die...

{Cy}
 
World War III

Round 287

"Ding....ding - GO!!!!"...

Probably safest to say BETROB that you do what YOU think is right and what works for YOU in YOUR situation for example; online or offline tuning.

(But, in short the answer is NO.)

The affects of having a difference in ride height is the opposite in GT5 as to what it is in real life.

BUT, visually, if you have the front set to it's LOWEST value nd the rear to it's HIGHEST value, when you look at the car in your garage it will have a "nose down" stance. So it seems as though when you adjust the front, it affects the front, but in fact it's have the opposite AFFECT:

In real life, a higher rear (than the front) = oversteer
In GT5, a higher rear (than the front) = understeer

Do not compare real life tuning to GT5 tuning - ALWAYS deal with what works in the game.

Also, depending on what you do, SOMETIMES what works offline does not work ONLINE. If you know what you're doing, then an offline tune will work online, if you don't, the car will be useless.

So tune according to what your needs are, but to be honest, online is "where it's at" - find yourself a decent race series and speak to the guys in it, ask them for their advice about tuning for grip and tyre wear and go with that.

This will help avoid confusion, otherwise trying to understand online and ofline tunes from scratch will melt your brain, just concentrate on one and that should be online tuning as that's where the best racing (if you know where to find it ((HaB :lol: )) is happening... ;)

Nothing can compare a to decent, fair and equal online race series - aslong as it's organised right. Save yourself much going round in circles and :banghead:

Then just use 1 player (A Spec) to earn money for cars for online racing.

But, ultimately, the choice is yours....just like setups really.
 
I'm not talking about real life, I speak solely of the game and setup of various cars in the game ... I know that there are differences in the setup online and offline.
not my fault if some of you say that the values ​​of the suspensions must be considered on the contrary, while others say no .... and not being an expert I'm just trying to understand everything here ....
 
That's ok BETROB, nobody is having a go at you. It's just that some people think suspension settings are back to front, others don't think they are and more still think that only parts are back to front. The most you can do is read everything available and then make adjustments to your car and observe the effects. There is no definitive answer to either tuning a car or whether the suspension is back to front. As Highlandor suggests, make changes that suit you and your driving style and tune according to what type of driving you're going to do, offline, online, etc...

{Cy}
 
thanks CyKosis I know that practice online is the best thing to learn how to setup ... I read a lot I try to understand it but when I read that some of you say things while others the opposite like the suspension setup .... in this case I am very confused ...
 
betrob
thanks CyKosis I know that practice online is the best thing to learn how to setup ... I read a lot I try to understand it but when I read that some of you say things while others the opposite like the suspension setup .... in this case I am very confused ...
Click to expand...

I know, confusion reigns. The only thing I specifically tune back to front is ride height. I've not tested thoroughly enough all the other aspects of suspension to confirm if they are the right way round. Assume that everything else is (apart from ride height), if you then find you're still having a problem, flip the settings and see if it fixes it...

{Cy}
 
Sorry but this topic really annoys me.
Settings are not backward!
Settings are simply what they are.
The only way you can make a claim that they are backwards is to try comparing them to real world tuning.
This simply doesn't work because this is a game. The numbers provided are just a tool provided to us players to make some sort of incremental adjustment. Nowhere has PD stated a coralation between the suspension numbers in GT5 and real world measurements. Changing ride height by say 5 points doesn't necessarily coralate to a 5 millimeter change for example, and indeed without knowing the codeing used to build the game a 5 point change on one car in the game may actually represent a different amount of change than on another car.
If you accept that this is simply a game and then use the tuning options to get the best performance possible for your driving style and purposes you will get better results and most likely more enjoyment then engaging in pointless worry about whether a setting is somehow backwards will get you.
If there is an error its more likely a result of faulty translation in my opinion than in the way the suspension is coded in the game.

Alright end of my rant. Not looking to start or engage in a debate here just stating my opinion on the subject. Now let's get back to tuning and driving the cars for entertainment and enjoyment.

Remember as Harvey Wallbanger always says...
Drive hard and have fun!:cheers::gtpflag:
 
Another vote for "settings are normal - as they read in the game" and "not backwards!" Would be interesting to turn this into a poll and see where opinions lay.
 
It may sound weird, but it seems to vary from car to car to me. Some work good with the RH reversed, some don't. Just my opinion as I am far from an expert tuner. Better off asking some of the most experienced tuners on here. I'm kinda stuck in the middle on this.
 
CyKosis1973
I know, confusion reigns. The only thing I specifically tune back to front is ride height. I've not tested thoroughly enough all the other aspects of suspension to confirm if they are the right way round. Assume that everything else is (apart from ride height), if you then find you're still having a problem, flip the settings and see if it fixes it...

{Cy}
Click to expand...

^^This is my take on reverse settings for what its worth, higher at the back seems to help most cars turn in better:indiff:. I tend to set the right hand side of each setting a notch or two higher gives a little extra oversteer.:)
Im a bit of a sheep and tend to follow the latest trend so if its wrong and the suspension settings are indeed the right way round i sure would like to know.:nervous:
 
Need a end to this kind of thread.

Question:

To REDUCE OVERSTEER in GT5 ,what do you do ?

Option 1: I raise the front ride height and lower the rear !!!

Option 2: I lower the front ride height and raise the rear !!!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

My answer is:

Option 2: I lower the front ride height and raise the rear !!!

What is your option ?????


><((((°> °°°°°
 
^^ Higher rear than front - to cure understeer. Is what iI would do aswell.

This is maybe where people are being confused, as in 'real life' it should be a lower front in this case.
 
praiano63
Need a end to this kind of thread.

Question:

To REDUCE OVERSTEER in GT5 ,what do you do ?

Option 1: I raise the front ride height and lower the rear !!!

Option 2: I lower the front ride height and raise the rear !!!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Need another option there Praiano. I would use the LSD first, then springs/dampers, toe, camber, then maybe ride height.
Click to expand...
 
Motor City Hami
praiano63
Need a end to this kind of thread.

Question:

To REDUCE OVERSTEER in GT5 ,what do you do ?

Option 1: I raise the front ride height and lower the rear !!!

Option 2: I lower the front ride height and raise the rear !!!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Need another option there Praiano. I would use the LSD first, then springs/dampers, toe, camber, then maybe ride height.
Click to expand...

You're right, but this is just to let the question more clear an easy to understand and for me this is the only thing that is clearly inverted in the game. It's easy to make the experience.

Of course the others settings are working together. My order when i tune to balance a car is:
1-Springs & dampers
2-LSD
3-Ride height balance. (But i always set first a certain equal ride height , the springs will depend of this first choice)

I'm still and will always learning about settings in this game, but the ride height problem and only this one for the moment, is definitely inverted and i set it the way i explain to correct oversteer or understeer problems.

Have a good day. :)👍

><((((°> °°°°°
Click to expand...
 
If I drive a tune on the Nordschleife and I don't want to bottom out on every nick and cranny, I raise the RH, both front and rear as I'd do in real life.

If I drive a tune on the SPA where I can lay a 1km long ruler with a complete flat tangent point end to end, then I'll slam her silly to the ground.

GT5 rewards me well with my logical settings, I don't believe anything is backwards. I can then tame Over and Understeer easily , if I don't use extreme differences in my settings, and reach nice lap times with no Aids what so ever.

GT35R TC - 5:53s (offline practice) all & ABS at 0, fully tuned, Racing softs, with a Front of +6, and a Rear of +5. I then alter springs , Anti-Roll, and dampers for the settlements.
Every day I drive this car, I gain on my split times, with experimental adjustments here and there.
I'll post a video replay once my Avermedia HDMI card comes in the mail

no tune is perfect, some tunes might be better than others for sure, some tunes are worse than stock Yellowbirds. The best tune is to try one yourself from scratch and improve on it. (on your track and with your driving inputs)
 
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Ok , that 's why i say this subject is a pain. This is my opinion, it work like this and i'll not feed anymore this polemic.

Just take a Lotus elise 111r with sport hard tires (to be clear).

1 test:-Raise the front ride height at max and lower the rear at max. Check the result in the first corner you'll take.

2 test:-Raise the rear ride height at max and lower the front at max. Check the result in the first corner you'll take.

After the test you'll know if there is something backward or not. That's all folks , i promise i'll never more speaking about bugs in this forum.

:)👍
 
praiano63
Question:

To REDUCE OVERSTEER in GT5 ,what do you do ?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't necessarily use ride height to reduce understeer, I mostly use it to induce lift-off oversteer. Most cars that I publish will have a higher front end. Set this way, I find that cars rotate more easily when you're off the accelerator. As stated below, there are other areas to attend to before using ride height as a tool to cure understeer...
Motor City Hami
Need another option there Praiano. I would use the LSD first, then springs/dampers, toe, camber, then maybe ride height.
Click to expand...

{Cy}
 
the opening of this discussion, just talking about only for the game GT5, wanted to be a provocation to clarify once and for all the bugs of the suspension. I had done before writing the test setup and I had my ideas on how to correct understeer and oversteer. But I continued to read that some people argued that it was necessary to correct oversteer lower the rear
i think we have reached a conclusion that this bug does not exist ... I hope
 
betrob
the opening of this discussion, just talking about only for the game GT5, wanted to be a provocation to clarify once and for all the bugs of the suspension. I had done before writing the test setup and I had my ideas on how to correct understeer and oversteer. But I continued to read that some people argued that it was necessary to correct oversteer lower the rear
i think we have reached a conclusion that this bug does not exist ... I hope
Click to expand...

:ouch::ouch: yes it exist but it's a secret don't tell to nobody or you'll have problems with the other half of the planet !!!!!
 
Hmm, it's the same since release last year.
Multiple patches have been released yet, a couple of them changed the physic more or less. But they've never changed the way the suspension settings work.
My conclusion is that it must be right, right in the meaning of how the developers wanted it/how much game the game is. Cause a videgame is virtuality, not reality. If you agree or not, cause it's the "real driving simulator", the game is the platform and gives you the tools. It says what's possible, how something works, not you nor......... aliens?

I love it the way it is, with all its quirks, cause it's my favourite game series ever so far. And love is something inexplicable. GT fanboy for ever! :cheers:
Holy sh**! I got ******* sentimental here! O_o

(think it's better when your forget that last thing......) :lol:

---
I've never been a fan of this "reverse" thing/drama.
 
Compared to real life physics the front and rear suspension settings work the opposite to what they should.
Compared to GT4 physics they work the opposite.
Compared to GT5 physics they work the way they should.

(Someone correct me about GT4 physics if I'm wrong, I never played that. Did that have this 'backwards' issue?)
 
Ha ha...the dreaded reversed ride height debate..I thought it was dead and buried but...lol..

In short, I agree with the statement that the visual effects of ride height are correct, but the effect on the handling of the car is reversed compared to real life. The bigger question is how to use this effect, if at all, in tuning a car.

For me, it is the very last thing I use to tune. I'd say probably 80% of the cars in my garage have equal ride heights. A few months back Highlandor had a discussion about bascic tuning set up. That is the exact same method I've been using for months but I'll refer to it as the "Highlandor Method"...lol. Perhaps Highlandor recalls the thread and can post a link, I don't have it.

The Highlandor Method, which concurs with the way you'd set up a suspension in real life, basically asserts that you begin tuning a car by setting up the springs, dampers and ARB's relative to the weight distribution of the particular car and each other. In very brief, if a car is 60/40 you'd set the front springs at 60% of their max and the rears at 40%, dampers on the same relative scale, and ARB's in reverse relation to this. If you do this when setting up a car, most of the time you'll find it's well balanced or fairly close to being so. Then use the toe, camber, LSD etc. to fine tune the cars behaviour to suit your driving style. You can also adjust the springs/shocks/ARB to achieve more grip, more suspension travel etc. but do so while maintaining the relative balance between the elements.

You should find that about 80% of cars are very balanced with this basic set up. Cars that don't respond as well to it for me are cars with extreme weights and extreme weight distributions and tuner cars. You should also find that most of the extreme cars can be well tuned by adjusting the springs/shocks/ARB's in small increments, and the LSD/toe/camber to arrive at a balanced, fast, ride.

For me, the other 20% require more extreme suspension settings and/or need ride height adjustments to achieve balance. I would never start with ride height as an adjustment, always end with it, as a kind of last resort, because even a car that is set up to be balanced but requires ride height adjustment to make it so, will handle better relative to using ride height to begin with for tuning, if that makes any sense.
 
praiano63
Ok , that 's why i say this subject is a pain. This is my opinion, it work like this and i'll not feed anymore this polemic.

Just take a Lotus elise 111r with sport hard tires (to be clear).

1 test:-Raise the front ride height at max and lower the rear at max. Check the result in the first corner you'll take.

2 test:-Raise the rear ride height at max and lower the front at max. Check the result in the first corner you'll take.

After the test you'll know if there is something backward or not. That's all folks , i promise i'll never more speaking about bugs in this forum.

:)👍
Click to expand...

I think what you're feeling is the affect of lowering the rear too much, therefore limiting the suspension travel and allowing the rear tires to lose grip? This is what I would expect from slamming the rear raising the front. It does NOT mean that the settings are backwards. I believe that the settings work as described in the game. If you go too low, you limit suspension ability or travel and it actually loses grip. So yes, you can take all the travel out of the rear of a Lotus by slamming the rear and raising the front and the car will go from push to oversteer. But, with the way that I tune, I look to increase front grip and maintain rear grip vs. the offset ride heigt which only reduces rear grip. The new tire load indicators go a long way to show this. Try the Lotus experiment and see if the front circles grow any with the ride height method.
 
Motor City Hami
I think what you're feeling is the affect of lowering the rear too much, therefore limiting the suspension travel and allowing the rear tires to lose grip? This is what I would expect from slamming the rear raising the front. It does NOT mean that the settings are backwards. I believe that the settings work as described in the game. If you go too low, you limit suspension ability or travel and it actually loses grip. So yes, you can take all the travel out of the rear of a Lotus by slamming the rear and raising the front and the car will go from push to oversteer. But, with the way that I tune, I look to increase front grip and maintain rear grip vs. the offset ride heigt which only reduces rear grip. The new tire load indicators go a long way to show this. Try the Lotus experiment and see if the front circles grow any with the ride height method.
Click to expand...

I'm just giving an example , not speaking about suspension travel or something like this.
Do the experience by half ride height if you want . not totally high or low. Then the experience will show that when the front is lower than the rear, this generate understeer. So this is inverted. That's all i want to say. This is my opinion confirmed by the experience that anyone can do.

I'll not speak about this anymore. Anybody can tune the way he want , i do all my cars based on this and it seems they work good.

I'm done with this. Finished.

No more

paulqhh.jpg


+

jagger1.jpg


= POLEMIC

Have a good night or day

><((((°> °°°°°
 
Last edited:
in short, someone briefly explains how the suspension work in GT5?
If I decrease the front, this causes understeer or not? I do not care how it works in reality I'm interested only in the game GT5...it's just a simple question
 
betrob
in short, someone briefly explains how the suspension work in gt5?
If i decrease the front, this causes understeer or not?

yes

i do not care how it works in reality i'm interested only in the game gt5...it's just a simple question
Click to expand...

yes

yes

yes
 
Johnnypenso
A few months back Highlandor had a discussion about bascic tuning set up. That is the exact same method I've been using for months but I'll refer to it as the "Highlandor Method"...lol. Perhaps Highlandor recalls the thread and can post a link, I don't have it.

The Highlandor Method, which concurs with the way you'd set up a suspension in real life, basically asserts that you begin tuning a car by setting up the springs, dampers and ARB's relative to the weight distribution of the particular car and each other. In very brief, if a car is 60/40 you'd set the front springs at 60% of their max and the rears at 40%, dampers on the same relative scale, and ARB's in reverse relation to this. If you do this when setting up a car, most of the time you'll find it's well balanced or fairly close to being so. Then use the toe, camber, LSD etc. to fine tune the cars behaviour to suit your driving style. You can also adjust the springs/shocks/ARB to achieve more grip, more suspension travel etc. but do so while maintaining the relative balance between the elements.

You should find that about 80% of cars are very balanced with this basic set up. Cars that don't respond as well to it for me are cars with extreme weights and extreme weight distributions and tuner cars. You should also find that most of the extreme cars can be well tuned by adjusting the springs/shocks/ARB's in small increments, and the LSD/toe/camber to arrive at a balanced, fast, ride.
Click to expand...

Discussion....(????) from what I remember it was World War 3 with alot of guys.. :lol:

Glad to see another person knows that this works as a basic / starter setup for most cars, as what it was intended to do, rather than being a "perfect" setup.

The guys I race with who use this call it the "weight distribution theory" setup btw...

It's a quick and easy way of tuning a car in a short space of time to be "race-able" online, but spend a bit more time fine tuning a setup (with this theory) and it can make alot of cars fast and consistent throughout race distance, without you going round and round in circles or hitting a brick wall and having to start your setup all over again.

Full respect to you for giving us the credit and exposure for this, unlike others who "nicked it" without having the decency and respect to give thanks or pay tribute to the guy who brought it to their attention.

Glad it works for you and you enjoy it - many thanks for mentioning it 👍

Top bloke :bowdown:

H

P.S. If you think that setup is good, you should try our race series (google HaB Racing & my PSN ID - pop along if you fancy being part of it).
 

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