GT5's reaction to EA's lock down on Porsche, Pagani Huayra, etc.

  • Thread starter pasigiri
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88FoxBodyFan
Since you want to be such a grammar (N)azi, I thought I would point out some things in you(r) post.

1. In this context, it's then, not than.
2. A double negative is not proper grammar.

See, we all make mistakes(. S)o why don't you can it with the elitist English teacher crap(?)

I hardly see how pointing out the exclusion of an individual's "C" in "Porsche" is being a "grammar Nazi." But, since you insist. ^^

Ironic that you bring up proper grammar, isn't it?

Seems you have missed the point entirely.

We have already moved on from discussing the proper spelling of Porsche (members even requested we move the conversation back on topic several posts ago). Do you care to join us?
 
I hope engelissh class ends soon. I did that on purpose, please don't bother me, too... lol
But seriously, does anyone know anything about when that contract may expire? It seems like people knew about the Pagani expiration, though I've heard nothing about Porsche. And has anyone read about other licenses? I mean does PD need one for each Lambo, or just to do Lambo?

I'd LOVE so much to have the Balboni edition (sp) in there. That is probably the only thing I could see actually happen, because I know my Quattroporte will never make it in, and I doubt Koenigsegg will either. But I do hope I am wrong :/
 
I hardly see how pointing out the exclusion of an individual's "C" in "Porsche" is being a "grammar Nazi." But, since you insist. ^^

Ironic that you bring up proper grammar, isn't it?

Seems you have missed the point entirely.

We have already moved on from discussing the proper spelling of Porsche (members even requested we move the conversation back on topic several posts ago). Do you care to join us?

No, you missed my point. WE ALL MAKE MISTAKES. You. Me. Everybody. Trying to belittle someone for spelling a word incorrectly doesn't help with the argument. Alright, I'm done now.
 
I hope engelissh class ends soon. I did that on purpose, please don't bother me, too... lol
But seriously, does anyone know anything about when that contract may expire? It seems like people knew about the Pagani expiration, though I've heard nothing about Porsche. And has anyone read about other licenses? I mean does PD need one for each Lambo, or just to do Lambo?

I'd LOVE so much to have the Balboni edition (sp) in there. That is probably the only thing I could see actually happen, because I know my Quattroporte will never make it in, and I doubt Koenigsegg will either. But I do hope I am wrong :/

On another newer GTP thread there is talk that it is suppose to be ending soon, but no link or really evidence was given. So you can take what you want from that claim. The thread also claimed that Porsche would be coming to PD/GT after the contract ended. I like the sound of it, but doubt it still.
 
Nobody knows when the Porsche contract ends because it's never been publicised by either party. There are lots of guesses and assumptions but they're just that.
 
Nobody knows when the Porsche contract ends because it's never been publicised by either party. There are lots of guesses and assumptions but they're just that.

It was renewed by EA in early 2010 for NFS Hot Pursuit. Worth pointing out Ferrari was exclusive for the 360 in that game because T10 are very nice and all about not preventing players getting cars as you said...




Yes it's called a sub license and exactly what T10 had up until F4 for reasons already covered in this thread. PD never had one, why they didn't only they and EA know.
Its no surprise why PD couldnt get both manufacturers.
afew things:

EA did the same for Ferrari as MS had that exclusively.

EA and T10 operated a monopoly on Porsche and Ferrari for many years. It helped both to the detriment of everyone else.

EA no longer get anything out of this 'special' arrangement as MS no longer have exclusivity with Ferrari. No surprise.

PD handled themselves well and have introduced Ferrari rather nicely. I am glad its no longer only in the hands of MS and T10. We finally get high quality Ferrari models (including experience) and the standard of Ferrari cars has risen in all games now.
 
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There is only one thing we can know for sure with all of this. Gamers are the big losers because of it all.
 
Ugh, this is funny, but is not proving your point. So lets say PD has fifty guys. They get 8 times MORE people, having 450 people. Now in one month, maybe they don't get what takes months, but in nine months (or say six years-the length between gt4 to gt5, or say 11 months-the time from release to dlc 1). In nine months, with nine times the people, our first dlc would be a new car. The only 'new' things we have are different carts, rather than "touring car" models of what we already have. I'm pretty sure that simple logic dictated the more workers you have, the higher the possible output.

"Too many cooks spoil the broth"

I'm not trying to prove it, but just provide part of the view as food for thought. For lack of facts on both viewpoints, I can't really prove anything and neither does the group claiming number of employees makes that difference.
What experience and observations in life thought me is that as you increase number of employees involved on specific task, both quality and performance suffers.

EDIT:
I'm not including the different management culture between Japanese and USA here as a factor, I am however suggesting as the other part of the view that attention to detail has PD in the slower lane here.

I am SO excited to get the new Pagani in our next DLC! I mean, it's a pretty sweet ride I'm told. And it's not restricted to ea anymore. And if PD wants to stay half way current with Forza, then they will definitely already have it ready.

Good for you, enjoy it:)

I'm currently enjoying B-Spec LeMans race, looks gorgeous with the weather/time shifting and sounds great on my headphones, especially that subtle rain sound in the background. I'd really like to race Porsche 917, all versions in fact, around here in some historical race, both A and B spec mode. There's already Mark IV and P4 to complete the picture, it would be great fun.


Funnily though, it eerily seems like Turn10 astroturfers here are listening so we just might see something like that included in Forza 4 you're enjoying so much haha...
 
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Maybe because Sony has a superiority complex like EA and doesn't feel they should pay EA to use a License from Porsche. OR they will wait it out and try to get the license next time around.

Pretty much this. Considering GT5 sold well without Porsche, Sony probably don't see paying EA for the licence worth the investment (even less so when the main competitor to the GT franchise also lacks it).

I'd say Porsche probably won't make an exclusive licence deal with a company anyway after this but I also have no doubt PD will be last off the line, just like they are with the Huayra.
 
In my opinion, EA has shot their nfs series and it's reputation in the foot, especially since their reasoning for withholding the Porshe license was for their Shift game to better compete with Forza4 and GT5. In most console racer's opinion, nfs is no comparison. If Shift truly held a stick in the sense of physics and attempted simulation, their claim of competing could be validated. Competition is good; brings new ideas from one game to the next and pushes the envelope on ideas and innovations. (GT5 and Forza understand this, why cant ea get on board) Instead, nfs is a joke of an arcade racer for the likes of 8 year olds who dont even appreciate what a Porsche is all about. It is a shame Porsche is being wasted on EA and that they can't come down to reality and accept that their racing series is a whole different genre ( more arcadish than sim) and is marketed to a different type of gaming racer. If they did accept this reality, and took the approach that Forza4 took in sharing their Ferrari licenses, they just might get a little insight on how to make a competing console simulator and salvage their nfs reputation. My hope is that they stay stupid, Porsche drops their contract and signs with Gt5 or Forza, and ea's nfs series dies altogether. Wishful thinking, i know....But one can always hope. That was my rant. Happy New Year and see ya all in game!
 
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I know some genres split the community's.
FIFA or PES. Battlefield or COD etc.

Racing genre is a bit different. Especially Wheel users, who I know are probably a minority.

If a half decent, wheel supported game comes on the market. Wheel owners are all over it. No need for exclusives at all.

I even play arcade games if it has wheel support.

I imagine I'm not alone in that statement.
 
I think i've seen you mention something like this before. :sly:
Yeah he's done that one or twice or seventy times.
Well, people keep acting like SONY is made of money just like every other megacorporation, which right now, only EA and MS is.

Do you guys ever bring this up? I think not. Does it figure into the discussion? You do the math. :sly:
 
I know some genres split the community's.
FIFA or PES. Battlefield or COD etc.

Racing genre is a bit different. Especially Wheel users, who I know are probably a minority.

If a half decent, wheel supported game comes on the market. Wheel owners are all over it. No need for exclusives at all.

I even play arcade games if it has wheel support.

I imagine I'm not alone in that statement.

How dare you. Didnt you read all the post previous of yours? Arcade games are for 8 year olds. They are inferior to the likes of GT5 or FM. You are not serious about cars if you play them! :sly:

Most mature folks can and do play things like iRacing as well as Hot Pursuit.

Also talking about wasting a license on an "arcade" game is silly. They sell well, and dont need a huge investment. Fact is, "sim racers" are the minority.

Well, people keep acting like SONY is made of money just like every other megacorporation, which right now, only EA and MS is.

Do you guys ever bring this up? I think not. Does it figure into the discussion? You do the math. :sly:

Sony is a megacorp. How much money depends on what division you are talking about as well.

I was wondering though, how do you think MS and EA became sucessful? Smart decisions? Strategy? Planning? Keeping a step up on competition? Or was it just an instant "boom" and now they have money?

Point being they did something right. Get over it.

And please stop making Sony sound like a guy working 3 jobs just to make enough to feed his kids. You really expect people to buy poor, poor Sony?
 
How dare you. Didnt you read all the post previous of yours? Arcade games are for 8 year olds. They are inferior to the likes of GT5 or FM. You are not serious about cars if you play them! :sly:

Most mature folks can and do play things like iRacing as well as Hot Pursuit.

Also talking about wasting a license on an "arcade" game is silly. They sell well, and dont need a huge investment. Fact is, "sim racers" are the minority.



Sony is a megacorp. How much money depends on what division you are talking about as well.

I was wondering though, how do you think MS and EA became sucessful? Smart decisions? Strategy? Planning? Keeping a step up on competition? Or was it just an instant "boom" and now they have money?

Point being they did something right. Get over it.

And please stop making Sony sound like a guy working 3 jobs just to make enough to feed his kids. You really expect people to buy poor, poor Sony?

I like this post. I think we are better off w/o Porsche, though. Obviously they are pretty money hungry, if there is truth to that link someone sent about their financial business. So maybe EA was the only one to offer money before they had a contract with them. When it expired without someone offering more money, why would they stop? It's free money for them. It won't affect business at all. And why pay for them? Yes, they have some great cars in the past and I don't know of any other rear rear production vehicles, but I'd take an RUF over any of the current models, and between the new tech from companies like BMW (i series) and their new models, and other brands we haven't touched yet Koenigsegg, Gumpert, Rolls and May and plenty of brands like Bentley and Maserati who are in, but done poorly for what they should be. The last thing I want to see is GT6 come out, aloud to use Porsche, and there's three Boxters (gross) from 03, 05, 07 and then we get a DLC 11 model (Hint at another German really under used, MINI) that is just about the same.

"Too many cooks spoil the broth"

I'm not trying to prove it, but just provide part of the view as food for thought. For lack of facts on both viewpoints, I can't really prove anything and neither does the group claiming number of employees makes that difference.
What experience and observations in life thought me is that as you increase number of employees involved on specific task, both quality and performance suffers.

EDIT:
I'm not including the different management culture between Japanese and USA here as a factor, I am however suggesting as the other part of the view that attention to detail has PD in the slower lane here.



Good for you, enjoy it:)

I'm currently enjoying B-Spec LeMans race, looks gorgeous with the weather/time shifting and sounds great on my headphones, especially that subtle rain sound in the background. I'd really like to race Porsche 917, all versions in fact, around here in some historical race, both A and B spec mode. There's already Mark IV and P4 to complete the picture, it would be great fun.


Funnily though, it eerily seems like Turn10 astroturfers here are listening so we just might see something like that included in Forza 4 you're enjoying so much haha...

Do you think every single employee all goes together on one car and does everything hand in hand? That sounds like a bit of a stretch, but that's the only way I could see things really failing with too many cooks. I mean, if you want a really good batch of soup for dinner, you get one cook. Yay! We got some sweet Ferrari's!

So, what if we want more. Two cooks using the same recipe can make...twice as much.

I do understand your point. If we had five Kaz, the game would either A never come out, or there would be five different GT5s. I completely agree on that front, but we already have one executive in charge. If they just tried, and added 25-50% of their staff, and just did little b s things just to save time from their "family" of close nit workers, then they would have more time to do important things. And it's true, this does cost money to employ more people, but that is why it pays to be efficient in the first place.

If they double their employees, they should at least cut the time down one third, high hopes for one half.
So your point is valid, but I think it leans towards the old phrase "Too many chiefs, and not enough indians."
I know it's racist since it refers to Native Americans rather than people from India, but the point is too many people giving orders and not enough people to do things would be the problem.

So doubling people to map one car could be bad. But taking half that staff and sending them to another car, then hiring people to make two full teams, that should close to double production after the learning curve without losing quality.

In Forza 4 I am enjoying so much? I do not own an XBOX. I own the GT5 Racing Edition PS3 imported from Japan. I have five games for PS3. More of them are GT5 then not. CODMW3, LBP2, GT5 Signature edition, GT5 from the racing edition, and GT5 just a boring US edition.

My wife got the Kinect bundle for 125 on black friday, so I am thinking about renting it now that the controllers can finally be adjusted. Don't ask me how it took four copies to finally get that down, but I don't want to ramble on and be rude to the people who rightfully enjoy F4.

Just because you blindly love GT5 to the point of not understanding why other's can enjoy something different, doesn't mean people who are open minded to outside thoughts, concepts, and objects are against you.
 
That's not really using the license well even. There is no Tubro new or old which is pretty important since it's awd, there is no 959 which was a Supercar of the 80s. The mid to late 90s 911 GT1 that race le mans is important. The 917 series that were winning in Le Mans series races and Can-Am in the early 70s are important along with its brief F1 run earlier than that. Or newer Porsche LMP cars like the RS Spyder. Yet time and time again those cars aren't seen. The Porsche Cayenne is another important piece as well.

The list given here isn't all that wonderful, the 918 is good the 914 isn't too bad either. The others are just generic porsche's that don't stand out much
GT3 I guess it could, but the others are basic for the gamer to understand what and who Porsche is. However, that is somewhat subjective. Also you missed the point. If S2 and others were good games or built up to be a true sim maybe that list would hold water, but having a beat and bash em arcade game doesn't do them justice. Porsche also doesn't do themselves justice by letting it happen.

That's assuming that everyone else is like you in that respect though. For me personally, 90% of the time I don't give a rat's 🤬 whether a car has a good "history". I care about how it looks and how it drives. So I would much rather a current modern GT3 RS that a 1970 917. And I don't think I'm in the minority in this either.
 
On a side note... I do think that These VV Could be other good alternatives along with RUF :D Don't know if it's been brought up before (couldn't bring myself to read 13pages!!)

Enjoy! (Plenty of others on their WWW's too!!! )

http://www.delavillavrs.fr/
DVRS06.jpg




http://www.gemballa.com/
MzY5MTM6MDU6MTM=.jpg
 
I don't think Sony even thinks about things like that when GT5 is almost wasting even RUF license with those few standard models. They could have every generation of modified 911 in premium if they wanted...
 
I was wondering though, how do you think MS and EA became sucessful? Smart decisions? Strategy? Planning? Keeping a step up on competition? Or was it just an instant "boom" and now they have money?
By making a slew of market and consumer hostile moves that benefited themselves grandly at the expense of competition and the consumer. How many racing games can you find Porsche in? How many devs are producing NFL games? Played many games on a PC which doesn't use Windoze?

And please stop making Sony sound like a guy working 3 jobs just to make enough to feed his kids. You really expect people to buy poor, poor Sony?
No, not in a world which uses Google far more to find porn and hentai than facts and truth. Or can you quote any business articles which states that SONY Corp has billions of dollars in revenue they're swimming in like MS is?

Guys, it's basic math. If you're loaded and you're a family, you vacation in the Bahamas, not visit grampa's place in the country. If you're a racing game developer, you can afford to load up your game with supercars from 2013. For pete's sake, get schooled, don't just live by the board cliche.
 
Every thread I come to now, here you are professing about something that has no relevance to the goddamn topic - no one cares.

Can you find me an article that supports your statement, tried and true? If you can't... then, shut up.

---

Actually on topic, with the exclusivity license expired GT5 (or rather, GT6) should (note that I say "should") be able to acquire it now.
 
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On a side note... I do think that These VV Could be other good alternatives along with RUF :D Don't know if it's been brought up before (couldn't bring myself to read 13pages!!)

It's been brought up each year, but the answer remains the same: In order to score a Porsche tuner, you'd need Porsche's consent/license. So, Gemballa, Sportec, TechArt, etc, are all unavailable unless Porsche were.

Because RUF does such unique and complete work, it IS considered a manufacturer under U.S. and German law. That's why they're available to games like Gran Turismo, Driver and Forza.

What's a true shame is PD's inability to add a single new RUF to GT5. After such a long wait and despite arcade games like Driver: San Francisco flaunting them, Gran Turismo 5 has not. Disappointing/10.
 
That's assuming that everyone else is like you in that respect though. For me personally, 90% of the time I don't give a rat's 🤬 whether a car has a good "history". I care about how it looks and how it drives. So I would much rather a current modern GT3 RS that a 1970 917. And I don't think I'm in the minority in this either.

If that was the case then people wouldn't care for half the race cars in GT to begin with. Since most people who first picked up the games knew less about those cars than the regular cars seen on the streets. So you may think what you want, but most people would be dissapointed to see the Toyota GT1 gone rather than one or the celica regulars. Yes people want a GT3 RS and I made a point of that, but not one from several years ago over the newer version, so try to keep up please. Also the GT3 cars that run the Le Mans series seem to be wanted equally as well, but maybe you should run a thread with a poll and prove me wrong (that follows aup). Also you sound more like the gamer category and less like that of the car enthusiast who usually buy up a game like GT.

Well, people keep acting like SONY is made of money just like every other megacorporation, which right now, only EA and MS is.

Do you guys ever bring this up? I think not. Does it figure into the discussion? You do the math. :sly:

I've seen you do math and you're not one that should preach from your soap box to others about math. Sony is made of money, I don't remember them being one of several companies last year or the year prior defaulting or filing for chapter 11 so not really seeing where your getting your figures from, unless their skewed. I tend to wonder with you though, if Sony is paying you because at this point the way you shove MS is a monopoly down are throats should be getting you paid.

Your the only person I know on the forums here that railroads a conversation about Porsche to MS being a monopoly when you should have just stuck to EA. Why would we bring up MS in these type of threads. Unless a thread is called "does PD/Sony have the finances to compete with others" then I could see a viable reason for these post from you. However, that isn't the case so as others have said, quit with the daft argument and talk about the main topic at hand.

Also a side note that shows how warped you ideas are, explain the 1.25 billion est. loss to Sony for PSN goind down early last year (2011). I think if Sony did things in a smarter fasion they wouldn't be behind others. Vaxxtx made a good point the PS3 lost becasue MS was able to push out their system faster even with the bugs and fixing them, when you get a leg up on the competition you win, and MS won. If Sony had been successful in relase of the PS3 instead of trying to milk their cash cow (PS2) for all it was worth, they could have continued their success. Also the prices charged by Sony haven't done them any favors during economic woes for the working class more so than upper class. Instead of preaching math go take a macro economics class.
 
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By making a slew of market and consumer hostile moves that benefited themselves grandly at the expense of competition and the consumer. How many racing games can you find Porsche in? How many devs are producing NFL games? Played many games on a PC which doesn't use Windoze?


No, not in a world which uses Google far more to find porn and hentai than facts and truth. Or can you quote any business articles which states that SONY Corp has billions of dollars in revenue they're swimming in like MS is?

Guys, it's basic math. If you're loaded and you're a family, you vacation in the Bahamas, not visit grampa's place in the country. If you're a racing game developer, you can afford to load up your game with supercars from 2013. For pete's sake, get schooled, don't just live by the board cliche.

I am consumer. I love Windows. I also have enjoyed quite a few EA games as well. I really liked driving the Porche in Shift 2. Alot. How did I get screwed?

Now are you talking about Sony's investment in PD? I think you are. What was the budget for GT5 again? Enough to swim in, yes?

Every thread I come to now, here you are professing about something that has relevance to the goddamn topic - no one cares.

Can you find me an article that supports your statement, tried and true? If you can't... then, shut up.

---

Actually on topic, with the exclusivity license expired GT5 (or rather, GT6) should (note that I say "should") be able to acquire it now.

This...a million times this.

Also remember even if the license is up, doesnt mean it wont be renewed. Also keep in mind PD has an odd neglect of getting certain licenses anyway. Also with more competition (FM4 has had awesome reviews) dont think there wont be competition to aquire such a right.
 
You have to wonder why they didn't model any premium RUFs, because a premium Yellowbird would be pretty awesome. My guess is that they were holding out for the Porsche license but Sony made them hurry up and release the game already. Just a guess, I know about as much as anyone at this point.

Even if they did get the license though, I just hope that they have a better lead sound designer for when they make the 917. The Yellowbird, CTR2 and RGT sound awesome, but the fact they messed up the 330 P4 concerns me.
 
Hmm. I'm sure others have already thought about this before, but I wonder if Porsche will only license to one group. I mean it won't hurt them any to not include themselves in as many games as possible. A lot of their vehicles will be difficult to drive (more so older models), and I highly doubt there are many people who want to test drive it's performance aspects on GT before they buy. Obviously test drive in person, but for the performance/abuse of the vehicle.

Oh, and by 'only to one group' I mean by only giving it to one, it drives up the price, and they will get closer to whatever they want.
 
By making a slew of market and consumer hostile moves that benefited themselves grandly at the expense of competition and the consumer. How many racing games can you find Porsche in? How many devs are producing NFL games? Played many games on a PC which doesn't use Windoze?


No, not in a world which uses Google far more to find porn and hentai than facts and truth. Or can you quote any business articles which states that SONY Corp has billions of dollars in revenue they're swimming in like MS is?

Guys, it's basic math. If you're loaded and you're a family, you vacation in the Bahamas, not visit grampa's place in the country. If you're a racing game developer, you can afford to load up your game with supercars from 2013. For pete's sake, get schooled, don't just live by the board cliche.

You keep regurgitating the same comments and arguments but it's not basic math. Sony are a huge company that work in the billions, they're not your local shop which operates in the thousands and a net income in the red is a closing down disaster with no money to spend on anything.

Yes, Sony had a net income of minus 3 billion USD for the last fiscal year but that doesn't mean they're nearing bankrupt and have no money in any of their divisions. They have equity of 30 billion USD and 155 billion worth of assets, there is plenty of money constantly moving around the business.

Sure they're not as impressive figures as Microsoft but your constant claims that Sony are paupers and as a result PD can't afford to license cars, tracks or whatever is frankly ridiculous. Just like the company as a whole there is plenty of money constantly moving around PD.
 
I don't think they would care much if people found the older ones to be quite hard to drive, it's not like they're still selling them. If anything, from what I've heard from others, a 60s-70s 911 should put a smile on your face. The BTR and Yellowbird are turbocharged, and that makes them a bit more unpredictable. A naturally aspirated first generation 911 though... That would be something.
 
No, not in a world which uses Google far more to find porn and hentai than facts and truth. Or can you quote any business articles which states that SONY Corp has billions of dollars in revenue they're swimming in like MS is?

Guys, it's basic math. If you're loaded and you're a family, you vacation in the Bahamas, not visit grampa's place in the country. If you're a racing game developer, you can afford to load up your game with supercars from 2013. For pete's sake, get schooled, don't just live by the board cliche.

Can I just check, are you basing this on Sony having an operating loss of 1.6 billion Yen for Q2 2011?
Source - http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/11q2_sony.pdf - Page 2

If so that's a very misleading figure to use, as it is only applicable for that particular quarter, and doesn't take into account previous P&L figures. For example for the same quarter in 2010 Sony made on operating profit of 68.7 billion Yen (page 2).

P&L figures are important, they let you know how a company is doing at that moment in time, and are vital in terms of being able to track changes in performance.

What they do not tell you is what a company has to spend, cash flow does that not P&L, with you cash assets and lines of credit being the key factors.

A quick look at Sony's assets show they stand at $167,141 million, however a large amount of that will be in buildings, physical assets, etc. However the financial statement does show that Sony's cash or cash equivalent assets currently stand at...


9,558 million US dollars


with additional approved lines of credit able to provide another...


9,524 million US dollars



Now given the current P&L situation getting shareholders to agree to invest in what could be an expensive licence could be an issue.

What is however clearly not an issue (and Sony's own legal documentation show this) is the availability of the money in a usable form.


Scaff
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
Vaxxtx made a good point the PS3 lost becasue MS was able to push out their system faster even with the bugs and fixing them, when you get a leg up on the competition you win, and MS won. If Sony had been successful in relase of the PS3 instead of trying to milk their cash cow (PS2) for all it was worth, they could have continued their success. Also the prices charged by Sony haven't done them any favors during economic woes for the working class more so than upper class. Instead of preaching math go take a macro economics class.

The Sega Saturn was released before the PLaystation. Just saying... =)
 
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