GT5's reaction to EA's lock down on Porsche, Pagani Huayra, etc.

[TeggD]

I don't understand how anybody at Porsche thought this exclusive license deal was a good idea. I hope EA paid them some gigantic sum of money to make up for lack of exposure Porsche gets in all the other games that enthusiasts play.

They obviously did. I agree I doubt it helps EA much. Nothing touches NFS in sales and Porsche won't make a difference IMO.

 

[Short Bus]

They obviously did. I agree I doubt it helps EA much. Nothing touches NFS in sales and Porsche won't make a difference IMO.

As annoying as it is, lets count our blessings....

We have Ferraris now. 👍

 

[drivingmeinsane]

Most of the people here are trying to make sense of a business decision made by a corporation, regardless if it's EA, Porsche, Sony, PD, MS or any other corp, at the end of the day only 1 thing matters for all businesses, the bottom line. that makes ALL businesses VERY short sighted and not all of their decisions will be to their long term benefit.

I dunno, maybe i'm wrong (hands up if i am), but trying to make sense of a mess seems a bit beneath the gamer.

For me it was more worrying that Ferrari and Lamborghini were not in any of the GT series (till now, obviously) than Porsche. to be perfectly honest, i couldn't give a rats youknowwhat if Porsche are in future GT games or not. all i care about is the quality of the game itself. if Porsche are happy to be associated with as bad a game as NFS, more power to them!

 

[SuperCobraJet]

As for the above discussions, I find it highly amusing that everyone is all about competition, unless it concerns Microsoft or EA buying up markets for themselves. Then all of a sudden, it's, "Oh... well, what's the problem?"

I think your a little confused here Ten D.

One company having a exclusive use agreement with another company doesn't constitute a monopoly.
Its done everyday.

BTW, MS's T10 lossed out on getting EA and Porsche to share the exclusivity, so this is one example of MS being on the outside.

 

[alonsof1fan91]

There's 28 premium American cars in the game... more once you add in the updated NASCAR variants... considering the number of premium cars, that's really not that bad a percentage.

Wow.

Roughly 15% of all premium cars are american.

Not a bad percentage?...

(How many american cars are in this game if we count all cars, standards and premiums? for sure less then 10%)

Also I aggree with alot of people in this site, that every day vehicles deserve to be in this game as much as supercars. But there are almost no european or american every day vehicles.
A C63 AMG is not a every day vehilce. A W212 E350CDI would be one.

 

[VolkswagenX]

 

[MasterLeaf]

👍+1

 

[stigs lil bro]

How ironic

 

[Ryan81]

Wow.

Roughly 15% of all premium cars are american.

Not a bad percentage?...

(How many american cars are in this game if we count all cars, standards and premiums? for sure less then 10%)

Also I aggree with alot of people in this site, that every day vehicles deserve to be in this game as much as supercars. But there are almost no european or american every day vehicles.
A C63 AMG is not a every day vehilce. A W212 E350CDI would be one.

Also, let's NOT include NASCAR duplicates. I think you're right, though. I'd say the % of American cars in the game altogether is 10-15% tops.

As for every day vehicles, I think GT5 has plenty, with most being standards, of course. However, I wouldn't say the C63 AMG is a 'supercar' High performance sports car, sure but not supercar.

 

[paskowitz]

I wonder... I wonder what Porsche would do if a German game company wanted to make a game about German cars. It would feature Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Opel, and Volkswagen. What would Porsche do when said company asks them to a part of their game? Its sad, really, to think that they would probably say no. If you think about it, Porsche is one of the largest and most influential manufacturers in automotive history. Especially from a motorsport standpoint.

It is a shame they are so blinded by greed. They can't see that they are more than just a profit machine, they are an integral part of the automobile's past, present and future and a part that deserves to be experienced by ever person with a passion for cars.

 

[stigs lil bro]

I wonder... I wonder what Porsche would do if a German game company wanted to make a game about German cars. It would feature Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Opel, and Volkswagen. What would Porsche do when said company asks them to a part of their game? Its sad, really, to think that they would probably say no. If you think about it, Porsche is one of the largest and most influential manufacturers in automotive history. Especially from a motorsport standpoint.

It is a shame they are so blinded by greed. They can't see that they are more than just a profit machine, they are an integral part of the automobile's past, present and future and a part that deserves to be experienced by ever person with a passion for cars.

Why do you feel it is greed? You're not the only one who has same sentiments about the subject. We really don't know how much money they have earned from the exclusive license there. And I would for one think if it is really greed the main motivator behind such contract, wouldn't it be greedier to license yourself to two, three others?

I might see shortsightedness in the decision, but not greed.

 

[EDK]

Warning: I'm going to spout some more nonsense, so if you don't like it, I suggest you toddle right along.


Yes, somewhat. And listen, I work in the U.S. Federal Government. The dirty little secret in commerce is that most businesses aren't as well off as they state they are, to one extent or another. Governments are infinitely worse, as just about every nation in the world is in debt. Global debt may actually be in the quadrillions of dollars, but you won't hear except in scant news blurbs that the G8 nations are technically bankrupt. Yes, everyone is fudging their books some. Of course, governments are flat out telling whoppers, and the biggest liars are in the Obama Administration.

No, SONY isn't broke, obviously, I never said they were. But they aren't rich. They rely on revenues generated by the studio and computer entertainment divisions to fund the electronics division, which isn't making money in this global environment. Any money they have available is most likely earmarked to the Yen, and I doubt they have enough to do what they want, which means some borrowing. And there's the global money crunch to consider too, which... well, is a little too scary to get into. But what it boils down to is that every major corporation and bank is doing its best to reinforce itself against crushing global depression. And this means some cash and gold is in a vault somewhere just sitting.

If SONY was really rolling in money, why wouldn't they essentially double the size of Polyphony Digital, knowing full well that it's SCE's major money maker, and chunk out DLC every month? Especially when Kaz is the Vice-Pres of the division, and Polyphony is his proud family? Contrary to you guys' opinion, SONY isn't stupid, and they aren't meanies who love to hear us complain and cry. They invest in what makes them money. When they have it on hand to invest.

What this means for you guys: Polyphony Digital isn't going to expand as much as we would like. They may hire a couple dozen people or less, maybe some more if Kaz is persuasive. You aren't going to see all the new car DLC you'd like to. Even if they could whip up a dozen cars and a few tracks a month, they have to keep most of the goodies back to make GT6 attractive. A bunch of the new DLC may be reworked classic tracks. But if you'd like 10 completely new cars and a couple of never before seen tracks every two months, chances are you're going to be a sad camper.

Hey, I could be wrong, and SONY execs could be shutting Kaz out of "meetings" while they roll nekkid in millions of dollars worth of cocaine every day with high Yen prostitutes. But I somehow doubt it.

The nice thing is that Sony is publicly traded and therefore subject to full transparency when it comes to their asset and income situation.

Here's their latest earnings release. https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=111999http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/11q2_sony.pdf

They show a loss, but it's due to accounting for a writedown on a television division they are planning to sell. That's to say, the asset was previously valued at one level, and they now have to account for the difference when selling it off.

The short story, Sony isn't poor, nor are the majority of large, publicly held corporations. Their tactics used in an effort to maintain profitability during a recession are actually the main reason the economies remain as sluggish as they are.

 

[Short Bus]

Wow.

Roughly 15% of all premium cars are american.

Not a bad percentage?...

(How many american cars are in this game if we count all cars, standards and premiums? for sure less then 10%)

Also I aggree with alot of people in this site, that every day vehicles deserve to be in this game as much as supercars. But there are almost no european or american every day vehicles.
A C63 AMG is not a every day vehilce. A W212 E350CDI would be one.

Yeah, and if you consider the fact that we only get one *true* American road course it feels like we're being shafted. Sure, we got a couple of rovals, whoop-dee-doo. There are a few genuinely great American road courses that aren't Laguna Seca, maybe include one or two of those.

When I go look at the Forza 4 track list it makes me wish, again, that I could get Forza for my PS3 and that it supported my wheel setup.

 

[Tenacious D]

Bottom line is that the business case still has to be made regardless of how much cash is around; or maybe its because PD have already had additional investment this year.....

https://www.gtplanet.net/polyphony-digital-to-continue-expansion-in-fukuoka-japan/

...because a new office complex, relocate, etc is not exactly cheap and again flies in the face of Sony not having any money for investment.

Well, I didn't say that SONY had no money to invest. I'm also aware of the ad page Polyphony put up seeking new talent for hire, but further elucidation in a few keystrokes.

So why invest in a new office and not licences?

Well first off, we don't know that they are not trying to invest in new licences (and you will notice that I have said nothing at all in regard to that).

However if (and its a big if) they have, the most obvious reason is risk. A new office is mainly about taking cash assets and turning them into fixed assets, and given the volatile currency market that's a low risk investment that is likely to grow (slowly) over time. Licences would take cash assets and turn them into a potential to make money, and given that GT5 DLC is selling stupidly well without any new licences its a risk to say that the investment would yield any significant profit from DLC alone (GT6 would be a different matter potentially - but that's another story).

However the long and the short of it is; Sony have money and they are clearly investing it within the SCE division and beyond, that you want to ignore the volume of evidence is a little strange, but maybe you would be so kind as to let us know how they managed to find the £875 million (cash) to buy out Ericsson back in October.

http://www.engadget.com/2011/10/27/sony-buys-out-ericssons-stake-in-joint-venture-assumes-ownersh/

Well, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Note that I haven't said that SONY is too poor to do more than tread water in a treacherous economy. All I've been saying is that SONY has to count its Yen, contrary to Microsoft and Turn 10 which are held up as prime examples of what Polyphony should be doing. You know, "T10 modeled 500 cars in two years (actually stated in other threads a number of times), and are cranking out 10 cars every four weeks. GT5 sold way more, so what's PD's problem giving us this BS piddling DLC?" Stuff like this.

I have said that Polyphony is likely expanding, or else why put up an employment ad online? Sure, they could be looking to replace people who've had enough of 24/7 subservience to a constantly complaining pool of fans and quit/retired. But so far I haven't heard of any of the team jumping ship. Ergo, chances are that Kaz is seeking to add to the team and ease the burden on the whole of it, especially when a crucially important Gran Turismo game made for PS4 may well be in the works. And that game is going to be in need of high def content badly. This requires a lot of talent capable of reaming out a stream of high res car and environment assets which GT5 fell very short of.

And yes indeed, between the insanely good sales of Prologue and GT5 itself which VERY few of us foresaw, PD has made SONY a small mint worth of pure profit, and continues to do so. Holiday sales are likely very good, and DLC has sold even better than many expected. DLC itself is extremely profitable, because the only costs are the license, payroll given on production and server time to deliver to the consumer.

This is what I keep coming back to, as this whole thread is a long back and forth either in lambasting PD/SONY for such lame offerings, and contrast with T10 and Forza for much better offerings, or thanks for giving us anything worth buying when they didn't have to. SONY isn't in business to cheeze off their customers, nor is it in Kaz's heart to shake them down for loose change.

So the explanation I have for the stuff we've been getting in DLC is that we've been clamoring for it - a certain substantial segment of the fanbase anyhow. Kaz mentioned two month intervals or so, and we demanded that he keep his word. He obviously takes GT5 and his remarks to us very seriously, and has made to with what he had available without hurting prize content for GT6. An assumption, but one I think very few would find much fault with.

And what else do you have? The position that SONY and Kaz only care about the almighty monies so they can frolic through clouds of coke and buy mansions with smart rooms that know who you are and have LED walls which can display any scene imaginable, like Bill Gates has. Or something like that. I think my proposition makes more sense.

They show a loss, but it's due to accounting for a writedown on a television division they are planning to sell. That's to say, the asset was previously valued at one level, and they now have to account for the difference when selling it off.

The short story, Sony isn't poor, nor are the majority of large, publicly held corporations. Their tactics used in an effort to maintain profitability during a recession are actually the main reason the economies remain as sluggish as they are.

I must disagree. What I see as the primary reasons for the global depression are tax hungry governments devaluing their own currencies by printing money as an easy way to produce "revenues," and benefit-demanding workers holding their governments hostage by insisting they get the "free lunches" they always have. I suggested that we get a federal pay cut to ease a small bit on our federal budget, not a freeze, which made me all kinds of unpopular around the office.

 

[Tornado]

 

[devildog666]

Also, let's NOT include NASCAR duplicates. I think you're right, though. I'd say the % of American cars in the game altogether is 10-15% tops.
As for every day vehicles, I think GT5 has plenty, with most being standards, of course. However, I wouldn't say the C63 AMG is a 'supercar' High performance sports car, sure but not supercar.

I don't even think that 10% of the cars in GT5 are american. There would need to be at least 100 cars to reach 10%. I certainly can't name 100 american cars.

 

[Samus]

Well, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Note that I haven't said that SONY is too poor to do more than tread water in a treacherous economy. All I've been saying is that SONY has to count its Yen, contrary to Microsoft and Turn 10 which are held up as prime examples of what Polyphony should be doing. You know, "T10 modeled 500 cars in two years (actually stated in other threads a number of times), and are cranking out 10 cars every four weeks. GT5 sold way more, so what's PD's problem giving us this BS piddling DLC?" Stuff like this.

Look all it boils down to is this - there is enough money within PD for them to increase their workforce and therefore workload. Can they reach the level of the other company and afford to outsource? No, maybe not, but there is certainly enough funding available to increase things dramatically. There is a huge chasm between what the other company has achieved in general (I'm talking purely about current gen assets as a whole) and what PD has achieved.

Unless you have any hard evidence to the contrary? Because in all of your posts on this topic I've not seen any sheer evidence that PD don't have a good cashflow for staff/modelling/licences etc, just assumptions based on Sonys finances as a whole which we've already shown are actually just fine.

 

[88FoxBodyFan]

I don't even think that 10% of the cars in GT5 are american. There would need to be at least 100 cars to reach 10%. I certainly can't name 100 american cars.

Here is a breakdown of all the cars in the game by country. This includes Stealth, Chromeline, DLC, etc.

Japan: 647
USA: 135
Germany: 112
UK: 64
Italy: 57
France: 48
Korea: 9
Sweden: 3
Australia: 3
Canada: 2
Netherlands: 1
Spain: 1
Belgium: 1


Keep in mind this is what the game considers the cars. I know some should be listed in different countries (ie. the European Focuses (Foci?) etc).

 

[CorvetteConquer]

The U.S. and European lists needs to be expanded.

Italy: De Tomaso, more Lambo, Pagani, Maserati and Ferrari models

Sweden: Koenigsegg. Where the hell is this?

Germany: Premium RUF. Current RUFs like the RGT-8 and the RT 12R

Britain: Bentley, Ascari would be nice. Noble. Oh, and more premium Jaguars (XJ220!)

U.S.: Premium Pontiacs, Cadillacs, Saleen, Plymouth and Chrysler.

Ugh, I can go on...

 

[omgitsbees]

To give a little bit of backward about this picture, Polyphony Digital is pretty much the sole sponsor of the 24 hours of Nurburgring, and one of their requirements was that every car have the Gran Turismo logo displayed on its windshield. Talk about perfect advertising and product placement.

 

[Samus]

The U.S. and European lists needs to be expanded.

Italy: De Tomaso, more Lambo, Pagani, Maserati and Ferrari models

Sweden: Koenigsegg. Where the hell is this?

Germany: Premium RUF. Current RUFs like the RGT-8 and the RT 12R

Britain: Bentley, Ascari would be nice. Noble. Oh, and more premium Jaguars (XJ220!)

U.S.: Premium Pontiacs, Cadillacs, Saleen, Plymouth and Chrysler.

Ugh, I can go on...

Also the other end of the scale. More new European hot hatches like Citroens, Alfas, Renaults, Seats etc.

 

[omgitsbees]

I've pretty much just accepted that we aren't getting a proper car selection until GT6.

 

[stigs lil bro]

Look all it boils down to is this - there is enough money within PD for them to increase their workforce and therefore workload.

Already in progress...

Can they reach the level of the other company and afford to outsource? No, maybe not, but there is certainly enough funding available to increase things dramatically. There is a huge chasm between what the other company has achieved in general (I'm talking purely about current gen assets as a whole) and what PD has achieved.

Unless you have any hard evidence to the contrary? ....

Again with the comparisons, the group is looking to shut this one too?


I don't see anyone with "this" stand presenting any hard evidence to the contrary, despite one, sole, single, biased opinion relating to "that" company game and DLC issuing system, now just vaguely insinuated in the post. Which, by the way, is again inciting same totally unnecessary discussion.

Why?

Because that is just your opinion masked as a fact that argues someone elses opinion.

I've pretty much just accepted that we aren't getting a proper car selection until GT6.

Seriously? Were you satisfied with the car selection in any of the previous GTs?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Seriously? Were you satisfied with the car selection in any of the previous GTs?

Yeah because a majority of the cars were up to date for the time of the games releases and also had a good amount of older classic cars from the past. This game has 800 standars which were ported over from GT4 and 3 and those cars quite frankly are a majority and aren't up to date with the era this game was released in. However, the 200 premium are supposedly the answer to this though out of those the number is still slim for modern cars. DLC can change that though and seems to be trying with the last we received.

 

[stigs lil bro]

Yeah because a majority of the cars were up to date for the time of the games releases and also had a good amount of older classic cars from the past. This game has 800 standars which were ported over from GT4 and 3 and those cars quite frankly are a majority and aren't up to date with the era this game was released in. However, the 200 premium are supposedly the answer to this though out of those the number is still slim for modern cars. DLC can change that though and seems to be trying with the last we received.

Yeah, you have a point there as far as consistency goes.

DLCs are mixed bag for me though. Sure I can buy it, but I firmly believe game should be as complete as possible at the release, bar the patches that can rectify some of the missed parts before game being released. Like what is going on now, and the like the news of part of standard cars being upgraded to premiums

But GT was always not complete on that front. WHat with the sheer number of cars, you could easily find fifty that you'd like to play with but not being there.

 

[Short Bus]

I've pretty much just accepted that we aren't getting a proper car selection until GT6.

I think you're being just a bit overly dramatic.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I think you're being just a bit overly dramatic.

It's subjective, if that's what you consider dramatic then you're in a long road ahead on this forum. I mean I agree, GT5 is a bit daft and overdone on their car list. I could sit here and name 200 to 300 cars that I think should have been there and would make this game seem more fresh in the car list, compared to the past two renditions of the game. However, I don't know what a proper car list is as far as GT6 goes since there are plenty of cars that will be released between now and then that I'm not aware of (though I keep up with them like an addict), so what I think is proper today may change two weeks from now. So you can see why that is subjective in view, I somewhat agree with you, but at the same time can see what others may feel PD didn't give many cars that represent this modern era.

 

[stigs lil bro]

I could sit here and name 200 to 300 cars that I think should have been there and would make this game seem more fresh in the car list, compared to the past two renditions of the game....

I somewhat agree with you, but at the same time can see what others may feel PD didn't give many cars that represent this modern era.

I forgive them for only one reason haha. The other day I was taking some photos of Premium Elan in the air after one of my personal tuning test runs in this case on Trial Mountain and, knowing PD had went beyond PS3 rendering capabilities as far as car detailing goes, I was baffled when I got around the car and zoomed in on the (racing) tailpipe. The level of detail is out of the ordinary.

 

[Spagetti69]

The level of detail is out of the ordinary.

There lays the problem. No need at all. Well certainly at the expense of other more basic needs.

OT. I don't think PD has a reaction to EA's lockdown.
If they had the license do you think they would have got around to modelling one?

They could have modelled a RUF in preparation, if they were actively seeking the license.

Far too busy to be messing around with any of this new car stuff. ( Must be able to check your Elans exhaust, ya see ).

 

[Scaff]

Well, I didn't say that SONY had no money to invest. I'm also aware of the ad page Polyphony put up seeking new talent for hire, but further elucidation in a few keystrokes.

Yes you did, right here....

Or can you quote any business articles which states that SONY Corp has billions of dollars in revenue they're swimming in like MS is?

....now aside for the clear fact that you don't know the difference between revenue (which has no relevance here), profit (which again has no relevance here) and cash flow and cash assets (which are 100% relevant here), it has been quite clearly shown that Sony have 9 billion US dollars they are swimming in. Enough in fact to spend £800+ million on buying Eriksson.

Combine that with the clear fact that you were happy to state that Sony had mislead the world and committed fraud to show these figures.

Simply put, you were wrong.

Well, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Note that I haven't said that SONY is too poor to do more than tread water in a treacherous economy.

Yes you have....

Guys, it's basic math. If you're loaded and you're a family, you vacation in the Bahamas, not visit grampa's place in the country. If you're a racing game developer, you can afford to load up your game with supercars from 2013. For pete's sake, get schooled, don't just live by the board cliche.

...your analogy clearly states that Sony are at Grampa's place not the Bahamas.

All I've been saying is that SONY has to count its Yen, contrary to Microsoft and Turn 10 which are held up as prime examples of what Polyphony should be doing. You know, "T10 modeled 500 cars in two years (actually stated in other threads a number of times), and are cranking out 10 cars every four weeks. GT5 sold way more, so what's PD's problem giving us this BS piddling DLC?" Stuff like this.

I have said that Polyphony is likely expanding, or else why put up an employment ad online? Sure, they could be looking to replace people who've had enough of 24/7 subservience to a constantly complaining pool of fans and quit/retired. But so far I haven't heard of any of the team jumping ship. Ergo, chances are that Kaz is seeking to add to the team and ease the burden on the whole of it, especially when a crucially important Gran Turismo game made for PS4 may well be in the works. And that game is going to be in need of high def content badly. This requires a lot of talent capable of reaming out a stream of high res car and environment assets which GT5 fell very short of.

And yes indeed, between the insanely good sales of Prologue and GT5 itself which VERY few of us foresaw, PD has made SONY a small mint worth of pure profit, and continues to do so. Holiday sales are likely very good, and DLC has sold even better than many expected. DLC itself is extremely profitable, because the only costs are the license, payroll given on production and server time to deliver to the consumer.

This is what I keep coming back to, as this whole thread is a long back and forth either in lambasting PD/SONY for such lame offerings, and contrast with T10 and Forza for much better offerings, or thanks for giving us anything worth buying when they didn't have to. SONY isn't in business to cheeze off their customers, nor is it in Kaz's heart to shake them down for loose change.

So the explanation I have for the stuff we've been getting in DLC is that we've been clamoring for it - a certain substantial segment of the fanbase anyhow. Kaz mentioned two month intervals or so, and we demanded that he keep his word. He obviously takes GT5 and his remarks to us very seriously, and has made to with what he had available without hurting prize content for GT6. An assumption, but one I think very few would find much fault with.

And what else do you have? The position that SONY and Kaz only care about the almighty monies so they can frolic through clouds of coke and buy mansions with smart rooms that know who you are and have LED walls which can display any scene imaginable, like Bill Gates has. Or something like that. I think my proposition makes more sense.

The only thing I have questioned you on here is the accuracy of your claim that Sony had no source of cash for licences, one that you clearly made and have now backtracked on massively.

However the Sony/PD are all benevolent and MS/T10 are evil capitalist dogs imagery you seem to love is I have to say getting more than a little grating (not to mention almost certainly inaccurate - Bill may like his wall screens, but Kaz likes his racing teams and neither comes cheap) - you simply find one more acceptable than the other).


Scaff