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  • Thread starter zer05ive
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Let get this straight.

In D1 we will be penalized points cause others don't show up?


You sure that's what you guys wanna do? Cause attendance will drop. Bet money.
 
Dragonwhisky
Would I be able to copy the data and formulae from the public doc into my own spreadsheet?

As I recall, that results workbook has a ton of sheets. :boggled:
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you have access to when the doc is read only. Try it and let me know.

Yeah, there's a few sheets there. Time to archive some of the older stuff, we're approaching 400,000 cells again, google doc limit :(
 
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tezgm99
Old-fashioned would be slide-rule and/or a abacus, calculators are for the feeble :sly:
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Old fashioned is counting fingers. The highest you could count was dependent on the number of digits you had left. Which was dependent on how many times you came out on the losing end of a violent encounter with another creature.
 
Something I'd like to ask. Was the base number 10 figured from the average number of drivers in each division or just a number arbitrarily decided upon? If the data is available, wouldn't it level that graph even more if that average was used? What does the graph do for instance if the base value is 8, or 12?
 
kcheeb
I'm not sure what you have access to when the doc is read only. Try it and let me know.

Yeah, there's a few sheets there. Time to archive some of the older stuff, we're approaching 400,000 cells again, google doc limit :(
Click to expand...

I can copy the data but no formulae come with it. :(
 
OwensRacing
Let get this straight.

In D1 we will be penalized points cause others don't show up?


You sure that's what you guys wanna do? Cause attendance will drop. Bet money.
Click to expand...
Why do you think that will be?

I thought the reason most people were here is to get a chance to race against their peers in clean spec races. How many of us are here because we might one week win the right to pic a combo?
 
jobyone
Why do you think that will be?

I thought the reason most people were here is to get a chance to race against their peers in clean spec races. How many of us are here because we might one week win the right to pic a combo?
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Right so why penalize anyone.




I am not here to be penalized for others lack of attendance. That's for sure.


My thoughts. Practice harder or join D1 if you wanna be in smaller room. It's smaller cause there is less fast guys to pick from.

I can't fathom how you guys can't see the guys on average speed will always have a larger pool of drivers. This is why you have stiffer and more heavier comp in these divisions. as well higher attendance.

Bit hey not like I ever win anymore so do whatever you guys want. I am there just to race.
 
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OwensRacing
Right so why penalize anyone.




I am not here to be penalized for others lack of attendance. That's for sure.


My thoughts. Practice harder or join D1 if you wanna be in smaller room. It's smaller cause there is less fast guys to pick from.

I can't fathom how you guys can't see the guys on average speed will always have a larger pool of drivers. This is why you have stiffer and more heavier comp in these divisions. as well higher attendance.

Bit hey not like I ever win anymore so do whatever you guys want. I am there just to race.
Click to expand...


You have a point. This might also be a lot of work for little return where "the juice isn't worth the squeeze".
 
OwensRacing
Right so why penalize anyone.




I am not here to be penalized for others lack of attendance. That's for sure.


My thoughts. Practice harder or join D1 if you wanna be in smaller room. It's smaller cause there is less fast guys to pick from.

I can't fathom how you guys can't see the guys on average speed will always have a larger pool of drivers. This is why you have stiffer and more heavier comp in these divisions. as well higher attendance.

Bit hey not like I ever win anymore so do whatever you guys want. I am there just to race.
Click to expand...

Why do you see it as penalizing? Leveling... sure. You seem to think this is slanted to be worse for D1 drivers, but the powers that be try to keep the division sizes equal, and I think the Drivers List shows this.
 
OwensRacing
Right so why penalize anyone.




I am not here to be penalized for others lack of attendance. That's for sure.


My thoughts. Practice harder or join D1 if you wanna be in smaller room. It's smaller cause there is less fast guys to pick from.

I can't fathom how you guys can't see the guys on average speed will always have a larger pool of drivers. This is why you have stiffer and more heavier comp in these divisions. as well higher attendance.
Click to expand...

Owens, I think you have the wrong idea of why we are doing this. I assure you that nobody is getting penalized. The purpose of these adjustment is to prevent situation where the division with the lowest number of drivers will automatically get to choose Prize A. Nothing more than that.

Currently, if there's a division that has a significantly lower turnout than the other divisions, that division is a lock to win Prize A. Basically, that division is rewarded for having a lower turnout. That's the opposite of what should be happening, don't you think? So instead of rewarding or penalizing any division for having more ore less drivers on the grid, we are simply eliminating either possibility altogether. Now, the prizes will simply go to drivers who had the most impressive performances, period. (and I think that's a beautiful thing! :))

Also, please take a look at the numbers. It's a summary of the division grid sizes for the November season. You'll see that Division 1 is actually tied for the second highest average number of drivers this month. Had last week in D1 not been so far below the normal attendance, D1 would have actually had the highest average of all the divisions:

Weekly Grid Sizes for November Season

Division 1
10 + 14 + 11 + 7 = 42
Four-week average is 10.5

Division 2
11 + 10 + 12 + 10 = 43
Four-week average is 10.75

Division 3
11 + 12 + 10 + 9 = 43
Four-week average is 10.5

Division 4
12 + 11 + 9 + 8 = 40
Four-week average is 10

Division 5
8 + 10 + 10 + 10 = 38
Four-week average is 9.5

OwensRacing
Bit hey not like I ever win anymore so do whatever you guys want. I am there just to race.
Click to expand...

Actually, as you correctly explained here, we all want to do more than just race! We all want a chance to pick the car and track combos as well! I have some ideas that we inspired by your post, but I wanted this points thing to be finalized before bringing them up. I should be able to post something later tonight and I'm excited to see what everyone will think. 👍
 
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Dragonwhisky
Something I'd like to ask. Was the base number 10 figured from the average number of drivers in each division or just a number arbitrarily decided upon? If the data is available, wouldn't it level that graph even more if that average was used? What does the graph do for instance if the base value is 8, or 12?
Click to expand...

10 has been the most common room size. As you can see from Zero's post above mine, the average attendance is right around 10. It wasn't arbitrary at all. Being that the difference is static through each level. If 8 or 12 was used, it would change the adjusted numbers, but it would change them all by the same amount so the order would remain the same weather 8, 10, 12, or even 16 was used.
 
I understand what you're trying to do with the whole points adjustment thing. One thing to think about though is someone who wins in a small d1 field probably worked harder to win that night than someone who dominated d4. I don't mean disrespect to the other divisions I'm just saying fighting for any position in d1 is much harder on any night than in the other divisions because of the experience in that division. All I'm saying is someone winning in a field of 7 aliens probably had a harder time doing so then someone in a division with 15 new guys. I know of races in d1 where even though I was faster than someone the fact that they had race craft meant it took most of the race to make the pass stick. In other snail races with lower division drivers passes are usually over and done in the first try. Once again i don't mean any disrespect to other divisions so I hope no one feels any.
 
That's why a tie score always goes to the higher division.

Though I don't entirely agree… right now there seems to be a split in D1, where some of the guys race at the front and another group races around behind them. In a sense, the field may be even smaller than it looks.
 
hillracing
I understand what you're trying to do with the whole points adjustment thing. One thing to think about though is someone who wins in a small d1 field probably worked harder to win that night than someone who dominated d4. I don't mean disrespect to the other divisions I'm just saying fighting for any position in d1 is much harder on any night than in the other divisions because of the experience in that division. All I'm saying is someone winning in a field of 7 aliens probably had a harder time doing so then someone in a division with 15 new guys. I know of races in d1 where even though I was faster than someone the fact that they had race craft meant it took most of the race to make the pass stick. In other snail races with lower division drivers passes are usually over and done in the first try. Once again i don't mean any disrespect to other divisions so I hope no one feels any.
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I am not sure that is true. The difference between the racers in each divisions is roughly similar. Sure D1 may be faster overall but zer05ive has done a great job of keeping the divisions equal.
 
As long as the divisions are determined by skill of the drivers, it shouldn't be any harder or easier to win at a higher or lower division relative to the skill of the drivers in the division.

From looking at the lap times, there are actually a higher number of competitive drivers in the middle divisions than there are in D1. Based on this information, it would be harder for drivers to make passes in D3 and D4 than it is in D1.

What it comes down to is this question. What is harder to do, beat 7 drivers of similiar skill to yourself or beat 12 drivers of similiar skill to yourself?
 
JLBowler
As long as the divisions are determined by skill of the drivers, it shouldn't be any harder or easier to win at a higher or lower division relative to the skill of the drivers in the division.

From looking at the lap times, there are actually a higher number of competitive drivers in the middle divisions than there are in D1. Based on this information, it would be harder for drivers to make passes in D3 and D4 than it is in D1.

What it comes down to is this question. What is harder to do, beat 7 drivers of similiar skill to yourself or beat 12 drivers of similiar skill to yourself?
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You are saying that it is harder in the middle classes because there is more drivers closer in speed. Which I agree. Must be awesome to have that.
 
Just wondering - if the grid is "10" on this stat, is that when 9 guys race 6, and 1 guy races 1 race?

I often have a large grid for race 1, a couple drop out before races 3/4 (or a not insignificant number do not have the cars/tracks), and we can go from 12 to 6 or 7 over an evening.

What number represents that? Is it (total races started / 6) for an average or ? That seems to likely be the simplest solution.

Owens - what's the solution you propose?

In the past, if we promoted many to higher divisions, the bottom levels get grossly unbalanced and our numbers go quite low. And unbalanced and low numbers in a division, as you can likely imagine, mean those folks don't show up either.

So - what tweak or change would you suggest that all 55-60 drivers would equally feel is fair?

I'm open to listening to changes or different perspectives, and I am certain that the 'powers that be' are open to possible solutions as well.

Have a nice evening, y'all.
 
Yeah. It's an average of the number of drivers that started the six races.

So 12, 12, 11, 10, 8, 6 would average to 9.833. That would be the basis for the adjustment.
 
A HUGE THANK YOU to fzappa for getting me set up with the DLC codes so I will be able to race the kart Sunday!👍👍 8 months in this league and I am still amazed every day at how cool, giving and gracious the members and staff are. I hesitated on asking, but am so glad I did. Anyone else out here in SNAIL-land, don't be afraid to ask for a little bump when you need it. There are some real stand up guys here that will help make sure we are all ready to line up on Sunday!!
 
ExoSphere64
A HUGE THANK YOU to fzappa for getting me set up with the DLC codes so I will be able to race the kart Sunday!👍👍 8 months in this league and I am still amazed every day at how cool, giving and gracious the members and staff are. I hesitated on asking, but am so glad I did. Anyone else out here in SNAIL-land, don't be afraid to ask for a little bump when you need it. There are some real stand up guys here that will help make sure we are all ready to line up on Sunday!!
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Please if you need the DLC please post as there are people who have volunteered to help make sure everyone has the DLC needed.
 
i have the s2k. and the lex. i have done practice at the tracks but i dont have the kart or track to practice at. working on my bspex break in of the lex tonight. can anybody help me get the kart or track to practice with?
 
OwensRacing
I can't fathom how you guys can't see the guys on average speed will always have a larger pool of drivers. This is why you have stiffer and more heavier comp in these divisions. as well higher attendance.
Click to expand...

norm01.trsp.gif
 
Oh man I hope I can find the time to practice and race. I've been wanting to do cats ever since I started snailing!
 

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