Fanatec CSW/CSR Elite Modders Thread *UPDATE February 2014*

  • Thread starter eKretz
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Not really thread related but when will we see a wheel that cans handle an torque input instead of an angle/position input ? I do not know if industrial motors can accurately output a targeted torque because they are designed to handle position or speed. But for a FFB purpose, a motor that can output a specific torque and return the position of the wheel to the simulator should be the right way to be realistic.
 
RacerXX
Tap and just done hole, see the metal shavings? If that thread had been perfect, there would have been no metal shavings. That was from the two threads fighting each other for the most part…they retap one another
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Interesting. This makes me think that perhaps the wheel and hub were tapped separately and then fitted, rather than being mounted, then tapped and kept as matched pairs.
 
12thgear
Interesting. This makes me think that perhaps the wheel and hub were tapped separately and then fitted, rather than being mounted, then tapped and kept as matched pairs.
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Not sure.

One thing I AM sure about…is that my coming Formula Rim was not tapped on my wheel base! So how well can it match?

;-)
 
RacerXX
Not sure.

One thing I AM sure about…is that my coming Formula Rim was not tapped on my wheel base! So how well can it match?

;-)
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They should just ship it untapped! :sly:

Or I guess try retapping immediately? I've got a formula rim coming as well. I may grab my tap and die kit too.
 
This is some very useful information RacerXX. I also have a formula rim on order for my CSR Elite wheel. I have never taken the original rim off, so I was unaware of the threads on the outer collar. I completely agree that is a major no-no. I will be taking mine off and drilling out the outer collar and re-tapping the inner threads as well. Thank you for pointing this out.
 
They should just ship it untapped!

Or I guess try retapping immediately? I've got a formula rim coming as well. I may grab my tap and die kit too.
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No no no, they shouldn't ship it untapped. You are missing the whole point. There should never ever be two threaded holes next to each other like that. They will never tighten correctly and you will get accelerated wear in the loose one because you lose the clamping effect. This is a massive no-no. The only way there should ever be two consecutive threaded interfaces on one shaft or bolt is if one is a locknut; I.E. one of them is free to turn separately from the other. Go ahead and tap the inner thread if you wish, but drill the outer one for clearance (just enough to pass the bolt through is best in this scenario).
 
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RacerXX
I was surprised to see a particular design detail in the wheel to base connection approach. The wheel has a threaded male adapter that inserts into a threaded female connector on the base's steering shaft. BOTH the wheel adapter and the steering shaft adaptor are threaded. So when each of the two 5 mm external mounting bolts are inserted, first the steering shaft adapter threads are engaged, and then the steering wheel threads are utilized. So as you turn the bolt through one thread, the other is also active. This is generally a no-no. They may have done this to deliberately achieve an interference fit at that point. The threads fight one another to a degree.
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Seriously awkward design. Wondering how much mayhem there could be when the formula rims go out, considering what some people can be like. I recently sorted a guy out who could not understand why he was getting no picture on his tv. Turns out that he had just shoved his hdmi cable into the vga input! Though it is more likely to boil down to luck than discretion.
 
12thgear
They should just ship it untapped! :sly:

Or I guess try retapping immediately? I've got a formula rim coming as well. I may grab my tap and die kit too.
Click to expand...

I'd suggest ditching the outer threads. Any issues that arise can be dealt with conventionally. If you tap an assembly that may make that one piece work okay since the stock wheel does…but it would not be the way to go if you swap rims much. Plus it would make me cringe lol.

I'm saying it nicely (I love Fanatec and the people there have always been nice to me and very professional) but some might use a stronger word than that design is a "no-no". Things like this can happen in small companies and with certain types of organizations less able to catch or address these sorts of challenges.

I'd hate to see more Fana-Bashing shouted from the hilltops. Maybe those reading this thread can help out others if/when any issues arise out there. Since if we discuss it and others share their thoughts we might be able to improve matters. If you never remove your stock Elite wheel you probably won't run into any issues. But if you get the Formula rim and if it attaches similarly and you swap alot…issues will arise. If you get the Formula Rim and install it once and never change it again you'll likely be just fine.

In my personal case I wanted to dispense with the thread-into-a-thread aspect and so this took literally 5 minutes. Some light cleanup and clearancing via a shim ala the stock clear plastic piece. Now it is tight as a drum and the bolts tighten and loosen like...bolts. Instead of feeling like you are tapping new threads.
 
I have a strong feeling that the holes will be without threads. It would be very difficult to get the threads to line up correctly otherwise. It could be done if they thread mill the holes and pay particular attention, or if they tap them thru the other holes that are already threaded, but I really hope they don't do that. I don't blame Fanatec at all for this as I'm sure it wasn't intended to be made this way. I'd guess it was the Chinese factory that pulled this blunder.
 
Yep, I saw it right away too. I don't much care for the flatwashers they used under the capscrews either. I flipped mine over so the burrs from stamping weren't digging into the aluminum. I also had a nice paddle shifter mod on my Elite before I switched to the CSW, I shortened the throw quite a lot and got rid of the loud clacking. My shifts were nice and quiet, but still positive.
 
eKretz
Yep, I saw it right away too. I don't much care for the flatwashers they used under the capscrews either. I flipped mine over so the burrs from stamping weren't digging into the aluminum. I also had a nice paddle shifter mod on my Elite before I switched to the CSW, I shortened the throw quite a lot and got rid of the loud clacking. My shifts were nice and quiet, but still positive.
Click to expand...

I always hated that click. Do the CSW rims do that as well?
 
Smudgster, one or the other of us might in future, depending on interest.

lemans, the Formula rim doesn't, but I've never handled a BMW GT rim, so I don't know how it sounds.

I've made some progress on my water cooling, check these puppies out:

Prototype Water Block:

WaterBlockLid.jpg


WaterBlock1.jpg


Prototype Motor Sleeve:

MotorSleeve.jpg
 
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I forgot to mention also that I re-tested for torque after I chased the slippage gremlin and got a nice 40V number. I didn't retest the earlier numbers yet, only the 40V one.

Stock motors @24VDC pulled 8.5 pounds@~5.38"R. So about 3.8 lbs./ft. (5.2 Nm) of torque.

With the Buhler motors @24VDC it pulled 14.5 pounds@~5.38"R. or 6.5lbs./ft. (8.8Nm).

Buhler motors @30VDC it pulled 18.25 pounds@~5.38"R. or 8.2lbs./ft. (11.1Nm).

New test:

Buhlers @40VDC it pulled 21.25 pounds@~5.38"R. or 9.53lbs./ft. (12.9Nm)

I need to re-test the earlier numbers eventually since they were with slippage.


I played some iRacing today at 24V with no cooling installed yet and I was able to play for about 35 minutes before things got too warm for comfort. I didn't really feel any fade due to heat until about the 30 minute point. Felt awesome! I was running the CTS-V at Laguna Seca.
 
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For anyone who might be interested, here's the Elite quiet shifter mod parts I made/used:

EliteShifterMod.jpg


All you need to do is remove the 4 outside screws in a square pattern on the wheel face, then remove the factory shifter springs and replace them with these and reassemble. I'm not sure how the regular CSR wheel looks mechanically. If the shifters are the same this should work for that wheel also.

There are 3 separate pieces here since I made these out of stuff I had lying around the house. The main body was made from the body of a bic disposable pen, the inside bushing on the right was made from the guts of a Paper-Mate disposable pen, and the foam pad on the left was from one of those foam bumper feet packs from Lowes or similar. I cut the body of the bic pen to length a little long then filed it to proper length to get just the right shifter engagement (this is an important step and you should do it also, just in case there are any variances in wheel dimensions). Trial fit while filing with the foam pad in place. I then CA glued the Paper-Mate bushing into the bic pen body bushing, and stuck the foam pad on the end. I used an X-Acto knife to cut the I.D. hole in the foam pad to fit snugly on the shifter switch protrusions. The proper length gets you a nice short shifter engagement, and the foam pad helps to quiet the noise down a LOT. The shifter clicks with this mod are barely perceptible, they can be made a little louder by using stiffer foam or a little quieter by using softer foam.

It is important if you do this mod to limit shifter movement so you don't trash your switches if you get a little exuberant with shift pressure (if you're a little heavy-handed). I accomplished this with ~.03" thick rubber tape applied to the wheel housing under the shifter paddles. I just placed a couple of consecutive layers so that the travel was limited to just enough to activate the switch without bottoming out.
 
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I am quite satisfied with the stock motors right now, but i can not stand the fade due to heat.

What would be a simple mod to improve this?

Following this thread i guess: Flip the fan to blow inside (directly on the two motors). Add a second fan on the other side to blow outside. Is the second fan necessary/useful ?

Any other simple way to improve the fade?
 
Vittorio, flipping the fan (and adding one if your wheel didn't come with two) will help a bit, but you'll still probably end up with FFB fade. Really the only way to kill it is to run some water cooling or turn your FFB down. Those clip-on motor heat sinks would help but I don't think there's enough room the way the motors are so close together. The simplest way to water cool would be with just copper coils wrapped around the motor like RacerXX is doing, then run a loop to a heat exchanger with a fan.
 
I have already lowered my FFB in game (rfactor2) by 10-20% (and don't want to lower it more) but in a 30 min race i still end with a much faded FFB without doing some modifications.

Interesting, i didn't thought of replacing the clip-on motor heat sink. I should go to a local RC-shop and ask if they have better heat sinks which do fit. I probably will end up with a water cooling solution then. :) But i do not feel confident enough right now to do such big modifications.

I only have one fan in my CSR-Elite. Did some CSRE got shipped with two fans? (maybe only CSW have two fans?) If there are versions with two fans is there a 2nd connector onboard i can use (that would be great). If not i wonder if it is safe to use the voltage for the 2nd fan from the 1st fan.

And when i turn on my CSRE i notice that the fan runs with full speed and then gets down to ~50% and stays there, never noticed the fan to speed up.
Maybe another slight improvement would be to remove the PWM from the fan so it always is at 100%.
 
I have seen one or two people say they have 2 fans in their Elite, but both of the ones I had only had one. My CSW has 2. I don't know if the board has an additional connection or not on the Elites. However, you should be able to run it in parallel with the original fan, as they are pretty low draw.

I am running my fans wide open all the time, I have pulled the wires from the board and am running them on a separate plug-in power supply. They are quiet enough that the noise doesn't bother me at all.
 
Thanks eKretz for your help! So i have a plan now, trying a fan only mod first: Flip the fan and disconnect PWM for 100%. Add a 2nd fan. (Maybe exchange the 1st fan with a better one.)

With my new fish scale i should be able to get some objective data (and eliminate the placebo).
 
Yes it does. There are 2 separate plug-ins on the board for the fans, so there apparently has been a revision.
 
Definitely not going to solve them with fans, but every little bit helps.

Not a single peep from Fanatec about firmware stuff. It would be nice if they would at least give a response.
 
I don't have the expectation that improving fans solve the fade problem, but maybe its good enough to be able to do a 30min race at 80-90% FFB.
 

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