Forza 4 Sound vs GT5 Sound

Zer0

(with clutch)

*video*

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For what it's worth, gear changes in replays are distorted regardless of input. If you want to prove your point about how a clutch affects the sound, record a video of you driving, not the replay, otherwise, you're not really proving your point here.

And anyway, the Gallardo in GT5 will sound like crap no matter what.

Scaff

Because given your track record posting flame-bait is a smart idea.



The only audiophile thing about GT5's sound is that it can be output as LPCM, which in itself just gives you uncompressed audio, it does nothing to change the lack of production or the quality of the samples.



Please tell me exactly what I am able to do on £2k's worth of AV equipment with GT5 that I can't do with any other title?

I only ask because it would appear that you are actually talking nonsense.

Yes GT5 does sound better through my AV kit in comparison to simply using TV speakers, but so does any other title that I route through it, as a result every other racing title I put through it improves and they all still sound better than GT5.

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"crappy speaker" = satured and distorted engine notes if make you feel better.

That is one of the general changes that people demand in GT5 sound. More punch.


GT5 audiophile sound: High frequency rate and detail (clarity), 7.1 uncompressed output, full dynamic range and detailed multichannel sound position.

The quality of the samples does not change but how they sound all togheter and mixed in one, two or seven speakers makes the difference along with the enhancement or equalizer presets that you use in between. Clearly seen in the sound detail between the two Gallardo vids.


"In a more large scale" = Means more range to play with the sound frequencies (or boost some sound layers) without peaking them and sounding bad. Not that you can edit the sound only in GT5.

1241Penguin

One of my gripes with the sound in Forza is that the transition in sound files (is it even that?) going up the RPM range is very obvious. In that sense, GT5's sound is more "clean."

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Yes. Glad to see someone who also hears it. FM4's Viper ACR and 90's Civic "fade in" are bad. This is something that better be fixed with FM5, because for me it kinda ruins the driving experience.

Zer0

"crappy speaker" = satured and distorted engine notes if make you feel better.

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So you are claiming that all Forza sounds are saturated and distorted are you?

Not only is that rather incorrect, but it's still flamebait.

Zer0

That is one of the general changes that people demand in GT5 sound. More punch.

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With good reason, GT5's sound still requires quite a degree of work to accurately recreate how the human ear hears an engine. No game has nailed it 100% yet, but currently GT5 is one of the furthest from it.

Zer0

GT5 audiophile sound: High frequency rate and detail (clarity), 7.1 uncompressed output, full dynamic range and detailed multichannel sound position.

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So just LCPM then (because that's what LPCM gives you), none of which makes a blind bit of difference if the source sounds were not recorded well and/or poorly mixed and/or poorly produced.

GT5's samples could have been recorded 100% faithfully yet if they have not been mixed and produced to meet the end needs then no amount of 'audiophile sound' is going to resolve the production issues.

All recorded and reproduced sound needs to be mixed and produced to ensure that when you listen to the recording it matched what you would hear 'in the flesh', and that is primarily what GT5 is missing.

LPCM gives you many advantages, but if the source doesn't do it justice then its pointless using it. A well mixed and produced DD/DTS track will still beat out a poorly mixed and produced LPCM track (a point illustrated by the first release of Black Hawk Down which had a shockingly poor LPCM mix that sounds far poorer than the original DD mix).

Zer0

The quality of the samples does not change but how they sound all togheter and mixed in one, two or seven speakers makes the difference along with the enhancement or equalizer presets that you use in between. Clearly seen in the sound detail between the two Gallardo vids.

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More speakers will simply give you a better placement of the sound, its not required for dynamic balance at all. My hi-fi (2 channel) offers a better dynamic range than my AV system (as it should given the price difference), however both still require a quality source to be able to shine.

GT5 does sound placement very, very well and in that regard to audio is well balanced, however the mix and production on the raw audio still leaves a lot to be desired for the majority of cars.

Zer0

"In a more large scale" = Means more range to play with the sound frequencies (or boost some sound layers) without peaking them and sounding bad. Not that you can edit the sound only in GT5.

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All of which still requires a well mixed and produced audio track to begin with, if you don't have that then a greater dynamic range will not provide you with a great advantage at all.

Through my system I get zero harmonic distortion from either Forza or GT5 at well past comfortable listening volumes, and yes GT5 does sound better through it than straight to TV speakers, but so does every other racing sim.

Scaff

So you are claiming that all Forza sounds are saturated and distorted are you?

Not only is that rather incorrect, but it's still flamebait.

Through my system I get zero harmonic distortion from either Forza or GT5 at well past comfortable listening volumes, and yes GT5 does sound better through it than straight to TV speakers, but so does every other racing sim.

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What about the flamebait insistence? you even reply your own questions.

Was not the general consensus in the sound threads, even to FM lovers, that the sound in Forza is overdone to make the experience more "intense" and is prefered? even the interior view sounds almost like the exterior! if that is now a flamebait why is not the "vacum cleaner" trolling I see posting in these threads?

I'm discussing the GT5 sound not the samples, you have not access to the raw data that the game is using to generate the sounds so the only we have is the PS3 mixed output, and that output changes greatly depending of the game sound settings, game views and car distances from the replay cameras. The audiophile part was just another variable that can change dramatically how the sound is recorded, remixed an played throught a YT 2ch stereo vid referring to the Gallardo comparisson.

Here is and attempt to compare the sound in both games in a real multichannel environment, not a good one but preferable than the typical direct sound recordings.

Off screen recordings are pretty pointless because they rely entirely on the microphone in the recording device which is usually pretty poor.

[QUOTE/]So just LCPM then (because that's what LPCM gives you), none of which makes a blind bit of difference if the source sounds were not recorded well and/or poorly mixed and/or poorly produced.[/QUOTE]

To further show your point.... Zero, if I gave you a audiophile quality recording of taking a dump you would still be impressed, just because its audiophile quality and you can hear it uncompressed (haha) in 7.1 channel? And better yet you can tune it so all your speakers make you feel like you are right next to the dump?! HAAHAHAHAHHA, had too

The actual recording on GT5 lacks...... End of Story.... We all agree.

Toronado

here

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I'm surprised he didn't even notice the problem with his argument here.

Edit: LOL ^

The quality of the samples does not change but how they sound all together and mixed in one, two or seven speakers makes the difference along with the enhancement or equalizer presets that you use in between. Clearly seen in the sound detail between the two Gallardo vids.

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Well, here is what a free to play not yet fully released PC game is capable of. They took the time to record and SETUP the audio so that even within a YT 2channel video you have a totally different experience. My ears cried for joy when I started playing Raceroom.

So what he's basically saying is that the 2.0 mix in GT5 sounds bad. Righto, I agree. I can't comment on multi-channel as I don't have the setup but I can't imagine it sounds much different.

SimonK

So what he's basically saying is that the 2.0 mix in GT5 sounds bad. Righto, I agree. I can't comment on multi-channel as I don't have the setup but I can't imagine it sounds much different.

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Nop, what I'm saying is that the capture-card vids of GT5 in YT sound bad. Usually they use hdmi to record the sound wich at some point is remixed to 2ch stereo. Some layers are almost muted and others are lost in traslation giving the poor sound we see in all those vids. The default low volume in GT5 just make things worst.

This vid for example was recorded directly from the monitor stereo speakers:



So rely on the sound processing of the 2ch device to acomodate the multiple channels, or how is equalized the result. Other games with a different sound design sound almost the same regarding this but GT5 is very channel dependant and suffer more.

What is good about an on-air comparisson in the same 5.1 setup is that the recording deffects are shared between games so there is no bias and the real differences between samples and sound dynamics can be spotted more easily.

Zer0

What about the flamebait insistence? you even reply your own questions.

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Given your track record of making inaccurate claims and then departing a thread when you are unable to back them up I would strongly recommend that you concern yourself with your own posting habits before questioning those of others.

Zer0

Was not the general consensus in the sound threads, even to FM lovers, that the sound in Forza is overdone to make the experience more "intense" and is prefered? even the interior view sounds almost like the exterior! if that is now a flamebait why is not the "vacum cleaner" trolling I see posting in these threads?

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The consensus was that Forza has a more aggressive mix that results in generally more accurate sounds, particularly with the higher displacement cars. Its preferred because its closer to how cars actually sound when driven under load, sitting in a car under these circumstances or being near one is a serious hearing risk and one that you can feel physically. Forza's mix gets far closer to capturing that than GT's does.

Zer0

I'm discussing the GT5 sound not the samples, you have not access to the raw data that the game is using to generate the sounds so the only we have is the PS3 mixed output, and that output changes greatly depending of the game sound settings, game views and car distances from the replay cameras. The audiophile part was just another variable that can change dramatically how the sound is recorded, remixed an played throught a YT 2ch stereo vid referring to the Gallardo comparisson.

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I don't need to have access to the raw data as that's quite frankly irreverent, its the mix that counts and how its output. I'm also more than aware of the differing options that can be used for output, I've had AV and Hi-Fi systems for decades and you once again are clearly taking a subject you know very little about and simply using random words to try and make a point that doesn't exist.

This for example.....

"The audiophile part was just another variable that can change dramatically how the sound is recorded, remixed an played throught a YT 2ch stereo vid referring to the Gallardo comparisson."

....doesn't actually make any sense. Audiophile is not a variable that can be changed, and its the very remix that is the issue with GT5, regardless of the method used to output it.

Zer0

Here is and attempt to compare the sound in both games in a real multichannel environment, not a good one but preferable than the typical direct sound recordings.

Click to expand...

That you are using a YT video to try and make a 5.1 system comparison really doesn't help you in regard to this, not that it changes the issues with the GT5 audio which are quite clear to hear even in that video. At idle and low rev a good number of the cars in GT5 sound fine (which is why its this area that most of these comparison videos focus on - funny that) its under high load that the sound looses almost all of its focus, with the mix being heavily balanced towards treble. Now that may well be exactly how they recorded it, but that's no excuse for leaving it that way in the final mix.

As I have said countless times now (and maybe it will get across this time), you can't just leave a raw recording as it stands and not mix it. No one would do that with any form of audio recording (even live music events are balanced and mixed at the PA) because it would sound terrible. Raw audio recordings need to be mixed to ensure that what the listener hears matches as closely as possible what it would be like to have heard it 'in the flesh'.

That's why these were invented:

Zer0

Nop, what I'm saying is that the capture-card vids of GT5 in YT sound bad. Usually they use hdmi to record the sound wich at some point is remixed to 2ch stereo. Some layers are almost muted and others are lost in traslation giving the poor sound we see in all those vids. The default low volume in GT5 just make things worst.

This vid for example was recorded directly from the monitor stereo speakers:



So rely on the sound processing of the 2ch device to acomodate the multiple channels, or how is equalized the result. Other games with a different sound design sound almost the same regarding this but GT5 is very channel dependant and suffer more.

What is good about an on-air comparisson in the same 5.1 setup is that the recording deffects are shared between games so there is no bias and the real differences between samples and sound dynamics can be spotted more easily.

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Doesn't really explain why on my 2.0 setup and many other peoples most cars sound bad. If GT5 is set to output 2.0 then there is no downsampling done by the hardware during capture.

Zer0

Here is and attempt to compare the sound in both games in a real multichannel environment, not a good one but preferable than the typical direct sound recordings.

Click to expand...

Oh and I've just noticed one rather important thing about this video, which you have claimed is an example of how great GT5 is in 5.1 'audiophile' sound. Well that 5.1 system is a Logitech X-530 and with a PS3 is not capable of outputting uncompressed audio or for that matter any form of Dolby Digital or DTS audio, it uses a 2 channel stereo output to fake 5.1 output. In AV terms its what would be called fairly crap (my speaker cable costs more than one of these).

http://www.pixmania.ie/ie/uk/355706/art/logitech/x-530-5-1-loud-speakers.html#pix-review
http://logitech-en-emea.custhelp.com/ci/fattach/get/382880/0/filename/x530_Manual_AMR.pdf

Feel free to click on the link in my sig for my set-up, which is most certainly capable of fully uncompressed LPCM audio, your video is I'm afraid to say worthless.

Well even if GT5 is digital and Forzas is distorted you still have to give it to forza.

Comparing the GT5 low grumble from a Challenger R/T 70 to the explosive blood curdling rip you a new sphincter scream I have to give it to forza .

Most Wanted is not all bad but it isn't on the same level and to me the music takes away from how good engines are at sompoints.

I love me some "Cast Away"

*skips off singing Cast Away