Massive Mediocre Eyeful Mountain Meander (A-spec Nürb 24)

A Massive Mediocre Meander Through the Eyeful Mountains

Sigh. Everyone here drives so much faster. But, me I can just barely do better than the AI.

Start Dec 21 10:00pm
Nürburgring 24

1. 4f Nissan FALKEN*GT-R Race Car '01
2. 9a Alfa Romeo 155 2.5 V6 Ti '93
3. 8a Abt Audi TT-R Touring Car '02
4. 12a Audi A4 Touring Car '02
5. 14b BMW M3 GTR Race Car '01
6. Abt Audi TT-R Touring Car '02 (me)
43 A-spec points!

There was a little trickery involved in getting even that many points. I mapped my lineups, and noticed that the above lineup occured offset by two. So I entered and exited a Tsukuba Wet Special Conditions Race, and then took the 26th lineup for the Nurburging 24 after that. I tried experimented before, and probably could have managed a 60 point race (ballast), but a 75 point race I seemed likely to lose. Thinking it would be easy to repeat after more practice, I decided not to get too clever the first time, and went with a non-handicapped Abt Audi. Actually, it wasn't totally non-handicapped, because it had completed a combination A+B Spec race before, without oil-change or chassis refresh.

I paused the game at least briefly at each pitstop, and, after stop 4, began recording all notes on a memory card (via PDA), as well as on paper. Which is why you are so lucky to have all these details.


Stop 1
lap 6 0-44:08.416 fl7:12.296
- got lead to lead over other Abt
- had got to 21 secs (reduced to 7 by pit stop )
- lap 6 is a real struggle
(15sec or more slow)


Stop 2
lap 12 1-29:30.988 fl7:12.256
- got lead to 34sec
=> 22 or less (bad pit entrance)


Stop 3
lap 17 2-05:23.150 fl7:12.256
- did a 7:13
- lead of 0:31 going in (not good)
- lead by 10sec on exit (became 0:47 after AI Abt pitstop)

Stop 4
lap 22 2-42:01.283 fl7:12.256
- did a 7:14
- had built lead to 1:07
- a LOT more comfortable this way!


Stop 5
lap 27 3-18:40.100 fl7:09.440(yay!)
- built lead; did fastest lap
- got to 1:47, but baddish inlap; probably go out -1:10
- NEEDED SLEEP
- so slept about 4hr (3am to 7am)

Dec22 3:00am
Dec22 7:00am

Stop 6
lap 32 3-55:50.216 fl7:09.440
- not running well after rest
- got to 1:47, but baddish inlap
- had slipped to 1:07
- built to 1:49 maybe


Stop 7
lap 37 4-32:18.650 fl7:09.440
- did two 7:13's and a long 7:09
- got to 1:47 before AI pit (made lead 2:27); built to about 2:32
- should come out > 2 minutes ahead
REST SOME MORE

Dec22 9:00am

shopping

Dec22 7:15pm

Stop 8
lap 42 5-08:43.303 fl7:05.472
- set new fastest lap, then did 7:07
- lead 2:10 will go to 2:47 (he will pit)
- lapped FALKEN in pits (might not stay)
- was nipping at Alfa when I pitted

Stop 9
lap 47 5-44:56.766 fl7:05.472
- did another 7:05
- fought with Alfa and A4
- have almost lapped 4 cars (fastest 2(BMW,A4) will not stay)
- lead got to 3:42


Stop 10
lap 52 6-21:09.500 fl7:05.472
- did a 7:07 and some low 7:1X
- lapped 4 of 5 cars now (should stick)
- lap 50; saw BMW flailing near pit Entrance; it pitted (its lap 49?)
- passed A4 a lot more cleanly this time
- lead got to 4:34

Stop 11
lap 57 6-57:27.583 fl7:05.472
- slowing a little; most laps < 7:10
- no traffic
- lead stretched to 5:39

Stop 12
lap 62 7-33:50.616 fl7:05.472
- slowing a little; most laps < 7:10
- no traffic, getting tired
- lead increased to 6:33
- but another very bad pit entrance
- AI getting far enough behind that, e.g. pitstop timing seems weird


Stop 13
lap 67 8-10:56.400 fl7:05.472
- getting tired;
- mistakes costing me seconds a lap; laps around 7:20 8-(
- no traffic, getting tired
- lead got to 6:42 after his stop (i.e. no progress)

MUST REST

Dec23 12:30am

did a few things, then slept 5 hours
resumed at 7:12am

Eyes are a little strained. After this, I began rinsing them with cold water during each pitstop. (Sometimes twice). This is when I wondered whether this track is in fact, in the Eyeful Mountains.


Stop 14
lap 72 8-47:52.516 fl7:05.472
- outlap fairly slow at 7:30
- lead was 6:20; went as low as 6:07; got back to 6:20 (no progress)
- laps around 7:15
- no traffic
- AI (other Abt) will pit right after me

Stop 15
lap 77 9-24:21.550 fl7:05.472
- lapped FALKEN(2x) early in shift
- then chased down AI(other Abt) and Alfa
- AI is rude when you pass; (e.g. will move over when you're beside it)
- stretched lead to 7:05
- weird--effects of a good lap appear delayed when you're that far ahead
- laps: did 7:09; all below 7:20

Stop 16
lap 82 10-00:58.733 fl7:05.472
- had exited just after Alfa, but it was an easy pass on its cold tires
- lapped AI(other Abt) on my lap 79 (when it pitted)
- got lead to about 30 secs over 1 lap, I think
- did a 7:09

Stop 17
lap 87 10-37:39.116 fl7:05.472
- got out just ahead of lapped AI Abt; it pitted on my lap 85
- after that my lead stretched to 1:00 over 1 lap
- did only a 7:10
- eyes and general focus tiring again
REST SOME MORE

Dec23 10:17am
Dec23 12:53pm

Stop 18
lap 92 11-14:11.516 fl7:05.472
- got out 40s ahead of lapped AI Abt; stretched to over 50
- it pitted on my lap 91-92
- I diced with A4 while lapping it again
- collided with BMW? wiped out between Karussel and Pflantzgarten
- both these will likely unlap, unless they pit (BMW probably will)
- did only a 7:10, but smooth


Stop 19
lap 97 11-50:34.983 fl7:05.472
- A4&BMW did pit, and will stay lapped
- kept over 1 minute ahead of lapped AI Abt
- lapped AI Abt will pit now too
- did 7:07 and 7:10; in-lap very fast, too


Stop 20
lap 102 12-26:47.200 fl7:04.526 ! 8-)
- kept lead well over 2 minutes over 1 lap
- no traffic; all good laps
- new fastest lap 7:04.526, and a couple 7:07; in-lap very fast, too


Stop 21
lap 107 13-03:08.050 fl7:04.526
- over 3 minutes lead
- lapped FALKEN(3x) near end (might not stay)
- laps around 7:10, in-lap very fast, too


Stop 22
lap 112 13-39:34.683 fl7:04.526
- stayed ahead of FALKEN(3x)
- didn't quite get by Alfa when it pitted
- lost time fighting with it
- laps around 7:15; in-lap reasonably fast
- lead over 4:00 (+1 lap)

Dec23 4:50pm
STOP for supper and rest
Dec23 5:40pm


Stop 23
lap 117 14-16:27.133 fl7:04.526
- mediocre laps about 7:15
- then very bad in-lap (wipeout heading to Bergwerk)
- may have lost ground; still about 5:30 over 1 lap?


Stop 24
lap 122 14-53:09.833 fl7:04.526
- engine feeling blah? only managing about 7:11
- mediocre in-lap
- losing track of 2nd place car; still about 5:00 over 1 lap?

Dec23 7:15pm snooze
Dec23 7:35pm came back feeling much better

Stop 25
lap 127 15-29:26.933 fl7:04.526
- managed several laps under 7:10, and in-lap reasonable pace
- lead about 5:00 over 1 lap? (hope to catch its pitstop soon)


Stop 26
lap 132 16-05:48.566 fl7:04.526
- lapped BMW&A4 in pits (nice; should stick)
- mediocre laps about 7:12, in-lap reasonable pace
- lead about 6:30 over 1 lap


Stop 27
lap 137 16-42:21.583 fl7:04.526
- lapped AI Abt as stuck behind FALKEN; neither stuck when I pitted
- laps about 7:11 or worse with traffic
- 2 laps in sight!


Stop 28
lap 142 17-18:43.300 fl7:04.526
- lapped FALKEN(4x) on road, then it pitted
- got to about 12 secs behind AI Abt
- next lap AI Abt (now ahead) pitted, lapped AI Abt(2x) then
- pulled out about 45 secs before I pitted
- did a 7:08, but other laps were worse with traffic


Stop 29
lap 147 17-55:20.933 fl7:04.526
- lapped Alfa(4x) on road--won't stick unless it pits
- AI Abt pitted on my lap 147, so my (2x) is safe for now
- only managed 7:10, in-lap alright


Stop 30
lap 152 18-31:43.716 fl7:04.526
- somehow got out ahead of Alfa(4x) and extended my lead some more
- managed 7:07, mostly good laps; in-lap goodish time, but ragged


Stop 31
lap 157 19-08:42.833 fl7:04.526
- very bad shift
- lap 155 was 7:27
- no traffic; car seemed obstreperous
- other laps not very fast, but in-lap alright time


Stop 32
lap 162 19-45:48.283 fl7:04.526
- that was terrible
- barely managed 7:20; just lucky I'm keeping ahead of (2x)
- no traffic
MUST SLEEP

Dec24 2:00am
Dec24 8:20am

Stop 33
lap 167 20-22:43.650 fl7:04.526
- mediocre, but adequate
- 7:27, 7:15, 7:15, 7:14, +slowish in-lap
- lead about 2 minutes over (2x)

Stop 34
lap 172 20-58:59.583 fl7:04.526
- 7:15, 7:09, 7:07, 7:09, +okay in-lap
- lead just over 3 minutes over (2x) (after his pitstop)
- draughted by FALKEN(5x) on lap 171 on big straight
- but that won't survive my stop
- more traffic up ahead now

Stop 35
lap 177 21-35:27.116 fl7:04.526
- 7:20, 7:11, 7:10, 7:10, +okay in-lap
- didn't actually check lead
- lapped FALKEN(5x) and A4(4x?) between Bergwerk and Karussel
- FALKEN pitted on my lap 171(his 165)
- A4 should stay lapped, I think it pits my lap 179(his 174) (checked)

BEGIN VIDEO RECORDING

Stop 36
lap 182 22-13:05.850 fl7:04.526
- 7:39.402,7:30.260,7:25.627,7:21.040, in-lap about 7:26.099
- terrible
- in danger of a car unlapping itself; lead slipped to 2:42 over(2x)

Dec24 11:20am
MrsWagon said needed to go shopping.
Hmm. I bet Mrs. Stirling Moss never called him away from an important 24 hour race to go shopping.
Dec24 7:20pm

Stop 37
lap 187 22-50:32.083 fl7:04.526
- 7:39.449,7:26.344,7:24.255,7:14.099, in-lap about 7:27.126
- still terrible
- lap 183 - messed up so A4 caught me
- lap 184 - caught A4, but he pitted
- lead only 2:30 over(2x)

Stop 38
lap 192 23-27:39.216 fl7:04.526
- 7:26.786,7:21.370,7:15.260,7:21.282, in-lap about 7:27.256
- from terrible to mediocre, but I just need to crawl home now
- stayed ahead of the A4
- lead only 2:37 over(2x)

FINISH (Dec24 about 10:00pm)
lap 197 24-04:58.375 fl7:04.526
- 7:31.202,7:20.461,7:26.533,7:25.603
- final 7:19.611
- a quiet cruise to victory
- final margin of victory only 2:24 over(2x)
- however, AI Abt probably only 194laps
- (it was really close to 24 hours exactly when AI Abt crossed the line)


Final Results

1st. Abt Audi TT-R Touring Car '02 (me) 197 laps 24-04:58.375
2nd. 8a Abt Audi TT-R Touring Car '02 +2 laps
3rd. 14b BMW M3 GTR Race Car '01 +4 laps
4th. 12a Audi A4 Touring Car '02 +4 laps
5th. 9a Alfa Romeo 155 2.5 V6 Ti '93 +5 laps
6th. 4f Nissan FALKEN*GT-R Race Car '01 +5 laps

Fastest laps in the first five laps (replay)
2nd. 8a Abt Audi TT-R Touring Car '02 7:18.326
3rd. 4f Nissan FALKEN*GT-R Race Car '01 7:19.919
4th. 14b BMW M3 GTR Race Car '01 7:21.130
5th. 9a Alfa Romeo 155 2.5 V6 Ti '93 7:22.464
6th. 12a Audi A4 Touring Car '02 7:22.739

But experience from B-spec races suggests all cars will better those times later in the race.

After the race, my car's horsepower was down to 433 from 461 initial; no wonder I was slowing.

I guess the game didn't think much of my accomplishment, because it gave me only another crumby white Formula GT car?

Coincidentally, game date was Dec 24.
(Dec 25 after prize delivery)


So towards the end I slowed definitely because of the oil. And also the control was getting pretty bad. It's strange, I have a Motul Pitwork Z which has gone more races without chassis refresh, and it doesn't seem so obstreperous.

But one thing I've wondered about Gran Turismo from the first game. They call the anti-roll bars "stabilizers", and, indeed, it seems, while low settings should help grip cornering, higher settings do serve to "stabilize" all cars in all versions of the game. So when you anticipate chassis flex, perhaps a higher stabilizer setting will help.

I guess perhaps I should give up on the "don't refresh so flex won't get any worse theory". I think it continues getting worse long after the point where you're first allowed to fix it (about 3 or 4 hours, I think). Furthermore, in the A and B-spec race I did with the same car previously, it didn't seem too different to handle towards the end of the race. Or at least, not enough that a penalty from initial bad handling was worth it. In fact, it seems like chassis wear tends to give you a couple of difficult-to-control laps every now-and-then, and then settle back to more predictability. Although, I can't fully verify that since I'm not a great driver. (I have difficulty reproducing my actions in any case).

And, as to it being easy to repeat for a few more A-spec points, I now realize I was totally wrong. The impact of an A-spec 24 on other life activities can be enormous.

I performed a humbling experiment. Well, it would have been humbling if I had thought I was good at tuning, but instead it just confirmed what I suspected. That is, it confirmed the reasons for my humility, which humility I possibly secretly hoped was false humility.

I did B-spec races of the Nürburgring 24 using the Abt Audi, first brand-new with my settings, and after that, another one brand-new with settings courtesy of Rotary Junkie.

First my result, with my settings, which are only slightly changed from defaults. ...

(B-spec driver 10000/100/100/100)

Abt Audi TT-R Touring Car '02 - 193laps 24-00:26.558
Nissan Falken*GT-R Race Car '04 - +1lap
Opel Calibra Touring Car '94 - +3laps
AMG Mercedes 190E 2.5 - 16 EvoII Touring Car '92 - +5laps
Toyota Superautobacs Apex MR-S (JGTC) '00 - +11laps
Nissan C-West Razo Silvia (JGTC) '01 - +14laps

As I say, it was brand new. I did an oil change, and used R1 (RSH) tires.

Somewhat to my surprise, B-spec did the whole race at pace 5, with only minor off-road indications, and no pit disasters. He/she chose to pit every 5 laps, with the P not lighting up until around Wippermann. This meant he/she didn't do very much of the lap on truly worn-out tires. This turned out to be very different from what happened when using Rotary Junkies settings. (Although, overall, RJ's settings are very much superior).

I gave absolutely no help. No changes of pace, and never hit the pit-sign to save the 5 seconds on a pit stop.

B-spec got off to a fast start, achieving the 7:13.252 fastest lap very early. That's significantly faster than the AI Abt Audi (~7:16), but is for 5 lap shifts instead of 6 lap shifts. Later in the race he/she settled down to 7:18 to 7:20 for good laps, with in-laps about 7:50 and out-laps about 7:27. Both those were significantly faster than the corresponding laps for the FALKEN (8:05 and 7:32), and so that's how he/she pulled away from it--the other laps were very comparable in time. But this would be too slow to beat the AI Abt Audi if it had been present.

The result beat the field, but several of the non-present AI cars would, in fact, have come close to beating it, not only the AI Abt Audi (and the Chaparral). (The settings used, were, in fact the same ones I used to beat the AI Abt Audi by 2 laps, in an Abt Audi with worn chassis and engine; this confirmed my observation that B-spec would lose time to the AI version of the same car).

Other finishing stats...

Abt Audi TT-R Touring Car '02 - 193L 38P fl7:13.252
Nissan Falken*GT-R Race Car '04 - 191L 38P fl7:19.336
Opel Calibra Touring Car '94 - 189L 35P fl7:27.209
AMG Mercedes 190E 2.5 - 16 EvoII Touring Car '92 - 187L 31P fl7:32.331
Toyota Superautobacs Apex MR-S (JGTC) '00 - 182L 25P fl7:48.158
Nissan C-West Razo Silvia (JGTC) '01 - 180L 29P fl7:55.340

Rotary Junkie's results in a subsequent post. I wasn't expecting any intervening comments, actually.

Hey, I'm sorry on behalf of this whole forum, That no one has really replyed to your post, You gave a REALLY good Race Report, on the hardest race in the game! And I definatly give you some rep here...

That sucks you had to get down to the point of washing your eyes out... lol. For the love of the game aye? lol

Hmm...

Wait... Am I reading the 'humbling' test's results correctly? That your mildly changed default setup is preferred by BSB?

Because the numbers read different... That my setup got an extra lap over the Falken...

And... Invisible +rep for the great writeup!

Now the Nürburgring 24 using another Abt Audi, brand-new with settings courtesy of Rotary Junkie.

(here are the Rotary Junkie settings I used--unless he's tweaked them since!).

This race was mostly B-spec, with me doing two sessions of A-spec.
(B-spec driver 10000/100/100/100)

Abt Audi TT-R Touring Car '02 - 198laps 24-06:41.824
Nissan Falken*GT-R Race Car '04 - +6laps
Opel Calibra Touring Car '94 - +8laps
AMG Mercedes 190E 2.5 - 16 EvoII Touring Car '92 - +9aps
Toyota Superautobacs Apex MR-S (JGTC) '00 - +15laps
Nissan C-West Razo Silvia (JGTC) '01 - +18laps

As I say, it was brand new. I did an oil change, and used R1 (RSH) tires.

This time, B-spec could not do the whole race at pace 5. He/she started off good, pitting after 5 laps with the P coming on just before the long straight. I did a shift starting at lap 10, and found I could go 6 laps. After that B-spec tried doing 6 laps, and this seemed to work tolerably for a while, although, really, the sixth lap wasn't worth it. On pace 5, B-spec jumped off to a scorching pace, doing some 7:02s, although later that dropped to more like 7:07 for fast laps. I did one more shift after his/her times had slowed, and managed to set the fastest lap of the race at 7:00.376 (nothing to write-up about, but it was faster than B-spec). However, when he/she should have pitted on lap 46, he/she overshot the entrance, continued for a lap on terrible tires, eventually ran out of fuel, and accumulated a penalty of about 2:30. At that point I switched from pace 5 to pace 4. He/she then pitted regularly every 6 laps for the rest of the race, doing around 7:10 pretty regularly, outlaps 7:15-7:22, and in-laps of 7:45-7:52. The in-laps were better than what he/she had been doing on the sixth lap at pace 5.

I gave no other help than what I've indicated; except for my own pitstops, I didn't even hit "enter" to avoid the 5 second penalty. To be honest, I hadn't intended finishing this race, but was just getting an idea of how the settings would work. When B-spec was so much faster, I decided to try the car for myself. I expected this to be one of those "expert" set of settings for experts. This car is a "charmed" car, but I found it amazing that with such low LSD, and no TCS or ASM I wasn't spinning out and/or wearing the tires incredibly fast. This truly is a remarkable tuning job. After I finished, I double-checked to make sure I was using aids 0/0/0 (I was). At first it looked like I'd be slower than B-spec, but it takes practice to get back into the track and a little more practice to learn new settings. But not really much practice! I was soon beating the 7:07 pace the B-spec had adopted, and set the fastest lap. Now, I haven't tried my settings recently with an oil-change and chassis refresh, but I'm guessing I'd still have difficulty getting down to the times I was doing easily. It seemed like I might have gained whole seconds just in the Karussel alone, if I was remembering my old checkpoints correctly.

So thanks RJ. I hope I can work out how to apply some of the tuning to other cars. Especially LSD, which I usually run much higher.

The result would clearly beat the AI Abt, but not the Chaparral. In fact, it would beat my own A-spec time; the 2:30 penalty would be avoided by doing the entire race at pace 4, and my two shifts probably contributed little. Sometime I might repeat this entirely B-spec pace 4, but I'm almost more curious to compare my own settings pace 4 to my pace 5 result.

Other finishing stats...

Abt Audi TT-R Touring Car '02 - 198L 33P fl7:00.376(A) ~7:02.1(B)
Nissan Falken*GT-R Race Car '04 - 192L* 38P fl7:19.529
Opel Calibra Touring Car '94 - 190L*34P fl7:27.428
AMG Mercedes 190E 2.5 - 16 EvoII Touring Car '92 - 189L* 31P fl7:30.974
Toyota Superautobacs Apex MR-S (JGTC) '00 - 183L* 25P fl7:48.352
Nissan C-West Razo Silvia (JGTC) '01 - 180L* 29P fl7:54.758

* - Because I finished so much over 24 hours, the indicated laps were actually started after 24 hours.

Rotary Junkie

Hmm...

Wait... Am I reading the 'humbling' test's results correctly? That your mildly changed default setup is preferred by BSB?

Because the numbers read different... That my setup got an extra lap over the Falken...

And... Invisible +rep for the great writeup!

Click to expand...

It's preferred only in the sense that it worked at pace 5 all the way.

If you read both posts, your setup got 5 extra laps over the Falken!!!!!!! (Yeah, that's one more than I managed A-spec'ing with my settings. But I think if I A-spec'd with your settings, I'd go fasterer).

Yours started off alright at pace 5, but I had to finish at pace 4. But at pace 4 it should clobber my settings. Left at pace 5, the result might have been terrible if it incurred a few more of those 2:30 out-of-gas penalties.

Now people are reading commenting on this thread, did you see the trick I used to get a reasonable A-spec field? (No JGTC filler)

Hmm, SportWagon, is there anything you want tuned?

I just drove my ABT again, and made a few tweaks, namely to the shocks and stabilizers. Still has isolated-feeling steering (plenty responsive, but it feels dead in your hands through a DFP... Bumps don't affect it much, it seems.), and a **** exhaust note, so it's not being used much by me.

I must admit I had the feeling of "where's all the feedback gone" when driving your settings, but that wasn't a big problem because the car didn't seem to do anything unexpected. I.e. the feedback with default and my settings was mostly to tell you the car was about to misbehave slightly.

I'll second Rat Bastid request for Chaparral 2D settings, and hold off on other requests until I review what you've got, and think about what I want to "achieve" next. One thing I have done is start chipping away at my missing Special Conditions races.

Thanks, everyone, for the praise of the first report, but I can see how it's less than ideal, and will try to incorporate some ideas from others' reports. If I do another similar race and report, I'll probably make sure I put the "time stamps" *after* the described events which actually occurred before them. This started out as a paper report, but if I'm doing it direct to machine-readable, it should be easy to add the time-stamp stats, and put notes just ahead of it. If I find the time, I might re-edit this report to do that.

Occasional collapsing of uninteresting shifts might be appropriate too. And conversely, it would be good to embellish the prose a bit for more interesting parts.

Oh. And another result of my subsequent B-spec test is to confirm the thesis that B-spec pace 5 does mean "push (and maybe push too hard)".