Burqa

  • Thread starter Strittan
  • 462 comments
  • 30,994 views

Should Burqa be allowed in Europe?

  • Yes

    Votes: 77 52.4%
  • No

    Votes: 70 47.6%

  • Total voters
    147

Strittan

Premium
4,103
Sweden
Sweden
Strittan
France did the right thing and made them illegal. Now this is discussed all over the place here in Sweden as well.

Burqa-Ban.jpg

Personally I don't see one single reason to even discuss it. Are we allowed wear robber masks? No...

Why should Islamic women be allowed to cover their faces when the rest aren't? How on earth are we supposed to be sure who the hell is hiding behind the darn thing? I mean, what does their passport or ID look like!?

I may sound harsh, but if there is one thing I think is sick in this world, it's this. I respect the Islamic culture, but having women covering their faces wherever she goes except when she's home with her husband, is too much, and almost as extreme as KKK in my opinion.
 
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I believe they should be banned, or atleast the right to refuse entry/access granted while they are being worn without repercussion on the ground of racial hatred.

It simply boils down to culture though. In muslim countries it's an insult to wave/shake hands with your left hand, and a great insult to show the soles of your feet to someone. In the west people covering their faces are seen as suspicious.

The only issue is, men have said they'll simply keep their wives in the house all day if they are banned from wearing the burkha outside.
 
No this shouldn't be allowed. While I have no care what the Muslim/Islam traditions are, I know that anyone can hide under that face-cloak thingy. I'm not gonna go all American on thier asses by saying they look like terrorists, but they do look threatening, even if they are women. It's just not proper attire to walk down the street with a mask on. I do remember one time in Virginia, I saw a Muslim women with on of these things on and I thought "wow how out of place is that? " Then I thought "Wow she must be dying wearing that" (It was 95 degrees out.) I just find it strange. Yes it is tradition and they are very strict people, but that is not something you wear in public. Thank god the country I'll move to someday has outlawed these.

Oh and ExigeEvan, I really wanted to say " well women belong in the house anyway" but I resisted. Because its mean to say things like that.
 
Go all American by saying they're terrorists? Are you an idiot?

They should be able to wear whatever they want in public.
 
May I add I don't think that they are called burga's I think they are called burka's.
 
Go all American by saying they're terrorists? Are you an idiot?

They should be able to wear whatever they want in public.
So you think your boss should allow you to wear a Storm Trooper costume at work?

EDIT: Sorry for double post.
 
Um, according to my post I said I wasn"t going to be a typical American and call them terrorists. Just needed to get that across.

So you think your boss should allow you to wear a Storm Trooper costume to work?

Something about the way you typed this made me lol.
 
So you think your boss should allow you to wear a Storm Trooper costume at work?

EDIT: Sorry for double post.

My boss should be allowed to make a dress code for his business. If a storm trooper costume is part of the uniform, he can make me wear it, or lose my job.

These are completely unrelated things. I have no problem with people wearing the burqa in public, but i also think a business owner should have the freedomto not serve someone in a burqa (or anyone for that matter)



EDIT: @ we can't wear robber masks why should they cover their face


-by the same logic, a toque and a thick scarf should be illegal too. And ski masks shouldn't be allowed, I shouldn't be allowed to wear my goalie mask while I play hockey, no welding masks....
 
France did the right thing and made them illegal. Now this is discussed all over the place here in Sweden as well.

Burqa-Ban.jpg

Personally I don't see one single reason to even discuss it. Are we allowed wear robber masks? No...

Then why start a thread?

Why should Islamic women be allowed to cover their faces when the rest aren't?

Why should Christian women be allowed to cover their breasts when others don't?

How on earth are we supposed to be sure who the hell is hiding behind the darn thing? I mean, what does their passport or ID look like!?

I'm pretty sure their passport pictures looks like them. Unless they were taken over ten years ago.

I may sound harsh, but if there is one thing I think is sick in this world, it's this. I respect the Islamic culture, but having women covering their faces wherever she goes except when she's home with her husband, is too much, and almost as extreme as KKK in my opinion.

While I personally view the veil as a symbol of the oppression of women in the Arab world... I see no good reason to disallow its use or force women to go "naked" whether they like it or not. I know perfectly sensible, liberated Arabic women who hold down professional jobs, who are uncomfortable with going anywhere without at least wearing their head-covering, whether or not they use the veil.

Don't see the connect, though. The KKK hide their faces so that they can commit hostile acts with impunity. The veil is worn by women... in some cases, voluntarily, to protect themselves from the "lustful stares" of men.

Yeah. I think they should ban bras, too. And panties. Should make everyone happy.

A ban on Burqas in public schools is okay, if we're trying to keep religion out of schools. A public ban, a la France, despite the fact that it claims it is to protect these women's rights, actually tramples upon those same rights.

So you think your boss should allow you to wear a Storm Trooper costume at work?

EDIT: Sorry for double post.

If there's nothing in the office code against it, then it should be allowed. And I know people who wear Storm Trooper costumes to work. EDIT: Okay, so it's more like Optimus Prime masks... I'm getting sick of those things...

Funny... I don't see anyone aching to ban the "motorcycle helmet-shades" combo yet... I mean... that guy could be anyone under that helmet! He could... gasp... be an Arab!
 
To me it largely boils down to the question of tolerance and just how tolerant should you be of another culture and is it wrong to have a point where the tolerance stops.

Personally I think it's perfectly acceptable to draw a line somewhere, it's not even an issue of possible threat to me. Should they be refused the right to wear them because it's a security risk? It's a legitimate concern but for me the bigger question is that these people are moving into a culture other than their own. They are moving into western society, not the other way round. It seems that as time moves on that western culture is the one that's constantly being adapted to make allowances for others. In my opinion that's the wrong way round, they come here, they should be the ones that should be willing to adapt, not us. Now I'm not saying that no allowances should be made, but I do think that we should have the right to decide how much of their culture we integrate into our own and that drawing the line somewhere is perfectly acceptable. At the same time you should be respectful of them, but there's nothing wrong with drawing the line somewhere.

To me it seems that over the recent years the Muslim communities in western society have become less tolerant of western culture. The Burqa wasn't a big deal in the UK 10 years ago, you'd see the odd one but most didn't wear it then. Now a lot of them have started wearing them and are stating that it's their right to. Well right now it is, and it will continue to be in their own society. But when you leave your society and join someone else's then imo you should be the one attempting to adhere to their rules and culture.

I wouldn't walk into someones house in a Muslim country clutching a bacon butty and not take my shoes off. Simple as that really.
 
islamic woman say it is culture. But it is a culture imposed to them by men.
Look at Istanbul, an islamic metropolis and there you see a lot of woman wearing normal clothes. Go to a little town in east turkey and they wear Burka's.
Give islamic people a non-biased education and non of them would wear them. (or should we all listen to stuff said 1400 years ago, burn witches and so on). These women are also often forbidden to exit the house without a male, so we should allow that to? When they do something that angers their husbands, should he be allowed to spill acid over the womans face??

Also when you come in a country you need to adapt! When you go to Dubai, a Dutch would not smoke a joint, you wouldn't drink beer on the road. When you go to England you don't drive on the right.

I have no problem with mochees (?). I even think how the swiss vote is/was a bit contraversial. But that is an other subject. It's the freedom to have your religion. The Burka doesn't deny them exercising their religion. It is also forbidden to sacrify animals, and in some countries it is culture. the incas were cutting out hearts, thank god they are extinguished otherwise you would allow that to?

mass education is what brought our countries forward and abolished a lot of dump and offensive traditions. That will be the same case in underdevelopped countries. Most of them have not the right to get education or the wrong education. (islamic terrorism = wrong bad education, religious fanatics = wrong educations, racists = wrong educations,...)
And I also think that some cultural traditions can also be a good thing as long as it doesn't stop someone freedoms.

We also stopped the separation of woman and men in church (it was like that a long time ago). On a similar subjet i also think that cutting the forskin because of jewish believe is mutilation

now try to border a plane with those one or go into a bank or sit with a bag near time square!! They can wear their burka in church or at home. No problem there....

Why should Christian women be allowed to cover their breasts when others don't?

Come to europe : they don't. But in pulic it is offensic to minors so its mostly forbidden. And there are even exception to this : FKK beaches

I never saw an eye rape case. I know eye fu***** exists but come one... Woman are as nasty as normal guys. Sometimes woman look at men with crazy eyes that could kill you. So those should wear one to or the men?

same as the hockey mask :try to border a plan with it ;)

Yes, Turkey has forbidden to build catholic churches on their ground but we allow moschees...

And France also forbid catholic crosses in public schools, so why should a teacher be allowed to were a burka (she sued for that). And the problem in France is that in certain regions you only see burkas and don't feel like it's France anymore. It's their country with their laws, we don't force americans to use metric either.

Now hit on me
 
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What is the law in France against any veil which covers the face or just a burka.

If the latter then how can the authorities prove such is a burka.
 
They should be able to wear whatever they want in public.

This.

My boss should be allowed to make a dress code for his business. If a storm trooper costume is part of the uniform, he can make me wear it, or lose my job.

This.

Why do we get to say what people can wear in public places?
 
Because it's public and is owned by everyone but the majority decides. That's democarty
 
I'm confused why this is an issue. Why shouldn't they be allowed to wear what they want?

France did the right thing and made them illegal.
Just sounds like another reason to stay the hell away from France to me.

They are moving into western society, not the other way round. It seems that as time moves on that western culture is the one that's constantly being adapted to make allowances for others. In my opinion that's the wrong way round, they come here, they should be the ones that should be willing to adapt, not us.
...


What are you talking about? Muslims moving to European countries don't start forcing European women to live by Muslim traditions.
 
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In my opinion that's the wrong way round, they come here, they should be the ones that should be willing to adapt, not us.

Why do our cultures of freedom try to adapt to them by banning their behaviours then?

But when you leave your society and join someone else's then imo you should be the one attempting to adhere to their rules and culture.

As above - why are we changing our rules?
 
Its just the french being well french. In england this wouldn't happen because we are too politically correct. Has anyone ever seen Nickolas Sarcosy being politicaly correct. (Nickolas Sarcozy being the man who called Barack Obama the tall black guy)Because its France and Muslim isn't the majority in france then they don't like it, its not french so they don't like it. This post will probably get quite abit of attention. (rascist?) But I felt this is the reason behind the french banning Burka's that we have all tiptoed around.
 
In england this wouldn't happen because we are too politically correct.
I don't see banning a specific piece a culture from being displayed within your borders mostly just because you don't like it as merely being politically incorrect.


Though I have to agree that it does appear to be the French just being the French.
 
I don't see banning a specific piece a culture from being displayed within your borders mostly just because you don't like it as merely being politically incorrect.


Though I have to agree that it does appear to be the French just being the French.

What I mean is that in britain have to call a fireman a firefighter we can't call a brainstorm a brainstorm we have to call it a mindmap. We take it too far in england so I can't see a country that can't call a brainstorm a brainstorm controversioally banning a piece of clothing. Plus in britain there are probably more muslims that in england (I think I can't confirm that).
 
It's only a teeny-weeny minority that wear them. A grand total of 2,000 women, out of 5 million Muslims in France, wear burqas. I don't see what's so different between a woman wearing a burqa and a woman wearing a nun's outfit. I think it's because western Europe has moved away from religious conservatism so much in the last 50 years, that when you see a woman wearing a burqa it sort of creeps us out, as it seems so conservative to us.

Also, by this logic, a woman shouldn't be allowed to wear a full-face helmet. And yet they can.
 
Ehm actually France is probably the country in old Europe with the most Islamic immigrants because they had a lot of colonies.

and the question should not be if the burka should be banned or not.

The question is : Why was the Burka invented.

The burka was invented by men.
You deface someone who wears a burka. A face makes you human. Wearing a Burka defaces a woman and makes here a subject an not a human beeing.
it's not even a mask it's a complete deprivation of the most essentials human expressions.
Why do you think that in Abu graib and in guantanamo bay they cover the face of the prisoners with black bags.
1. Deprivation of light and sight... ok
but also to rip them their humanity apart. you don't have to face them. they don't see the expression in the eyes,...

The best exemple for the psycology part on not having a face are people defaced by horribles accidents (acid attacks in middle east or some horrific accidents). these people feel less human if at all. And they still got parts of expression in their face.

The burka comes from a time where girls were married when they had 10 years and when the men could kill here because he had enough of her. Without a face you don't see the human. You don't see the eyes. It's a subject and therefor not hard to get rid of. It's like drowning puppies in a bag in the river.

And on Sarkosy: he is a little complexed a hole who will get left by Carla as soon as him amendement ends. Nobody likes him. Not even the french. Good that the french don't gullotine their politicals anymore ;D

"I think it's because western Europe has moved away from religious conservatism so much in the last 50 years, that when you see a woman wearing a burqa it sort of creeps us out, as it seems so conservative to us."

True! And they should respect that. You also respect their moral code if you go to an islamic country. Otherwise you will be imprissoned there
 
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They're great. They make fashion-conscious, shallow, proto-Lohans really easy to see from quite a long way away.
 
And on Sarkosy: he is a little complexed a hole who will get left by Carla as soon as him amendement ends. Nobody likes him. Not even the french. Good that the french don't gullotine their politicals anymore ;D

Agreed but thats what makes Sarcozy in someways awsome he is so bad that he has inadvertantly stumbled into awsomeness. He also gives them something to talk about on mock the week.
 
They're great. They make fashion-conscious, shallow, proto-Lohans really easy to see from quite a long way away.

While this is true, they also make Danny infuriated to the point where he refers to himself in the third person.

Maybe they make more sense in Paris or New York than they do in Bradford.
 
The question is : Why was the Burka invented.
No. The question is: Why do Muslim traditions have to pass European standards to be allowed when those traditions aren't being imposed on anyone outside the Muslim culture?

Muslims moving to France don't force French people to adhere to Muslim traditions. They don't require French women to cover their faces. They don't require French people to pray several times a day. But the French still somehow feel that they can ban certain pieces of that culture because they don't agree with the root aspects, despite neither the root aspects nor the cultural pieces themselves having anything to do with anyone outside of that culture?

If you don't agree with the concept of the Burqa because it is demeaning to women or whatever (and, keep in mind, the Burqa isn't required wearing for Muslim women), then do feel free to not be Muslim.
 
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