Braking with ABS=off is impossible??

  • Thread starter FoxHound
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FoxHound

FoxHound

94
*** EDIT 30 december 2011 ***
See this post for a review of the initial startpost
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=6417192#post6417192
*** END OF EDIT ***

I currently do not own a wheel so i drive with de controller. I have TCS and all other aids turned off...including ABS.

But no matter how carefull i press the brake-button or to whatever button i map the brakes to, i CANNOT brake in a normal sense with ABS turned off (ABS=0)

(i tried using the right analog stick for braking because you can 'dose' the braking...i also tried it using the triggers of the controller because they are more easily used in a dose-dependant matter than the normal buttons.....but neither of these solutions kind of work. Using the analog stick works slightley better though....but it still needs to be handled with SO much care).

When turning ABS off and using the analog stick to accelerate/brake....i have to brake way to early before the corner in order to NOT block the wheels. Any further 'braking' with the stick results in blocking of the wheels and thus spinning the crap out of the corner.

It seems impossible to brake with ABS turned off in combination with the controller.

My question is: Is this normal when using the controller or am I doing something wrong? (i really tried to brake with much care...but i just can't seem to get used to it......of course i can NOT block the wheels when braking, but then i need to brake way before the braking-point of the corner....and thus lose lots of precious lap-time).

Is there any 'option' or so to fix this?

How does braking with ABS=off handle with a steering wheel + peddals?


Thnx much in advance!


PS: i'm sorry if this is in the wrong forum...but i thought it would be best to fit here since i didn't know where else to put it.
 
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Ooh.....i didn't know that.....

But if it's almost impossible to brake correctly with ABS off éven with pedals....then why is the option to turn it off there in the first place??

I know it's for 'the realism'....but i understand by this it's no use at all....even with pedals?
 
FoxHound
Ooh.....i didn't know that.....

But if it's almost impossible to brake correctly with ABS off éven with pedals....then why is the option to turn it off there in the first place??

I know it's for 'the realism'....but i understand by this it's no use at all....even with pedals?
Click to expand...

It's not impossible, you just have to be really careful with how much brake pressure you apply. I'm playing with everything off include ABS right now. It will have you on the edge of your seat the whole race.
 
Try controlling the throttle with the right analog stick, you can fine tune your throttle input a little bit better than the x button. since there is more room to move the trigger, you can sort of feather the throttle, works great for drift practice :)
 
Not using ABS means you have to blip the throttle when downshifting, like you're heel-toeing, to help stabilize the car... and try not to use excessive braking force.
 
Threshold braking is possible, but very, very hard to do in a game. It really takes brake pedal feel and seat of your pants feel.

I try to threshold brake but I still usually leave ABS on 1, even using a G27.

With those load-cell pedals (I forgot what they're called) the pressure determines the brake force, like in a real car, which makes it a little easier. Any pedals other than those and it's really difficult.
 
What type of tyres do your cars have? The basic ones that come with the car (generally comfort) or racing tyres? Racing tyres will slow you down much faster and your wheels won't appear to lock. The comfort tyres have very low grip and take a lot of distance to break with.
I'm playing without ABS, TCS, etc. (DS3 analogue sticks till I get my G27 setup) and using the comfort tyres and it takes a lot of control to make sure you don't spin when accelerating and breaking. Just keep practicing. I find I have to use about half breaking force going into the corner while gearing down. The engine break takes a lot of strain off the breaks when breaking, so try playing with the car in manual if you aren't already.
 
I have the g25 and I never use abs. All you need is a steady foot and you'll get the hang of it. Though often I have to shift the brake balance a bit more to the front.

Brando-K
The engine break takes a lot of strain off the breaks when breaking, so try playing with the car in manual if you aren't already.
Click to expand...

Strictly speaking that's not true. The very reason real racing drivers use heel and toe when braking and downshifting is to minimize engine braking which destabilises the car and thus might cause the wheels to lock up under braking. I use heel and toe while braking too and I've managed fine without abs.

This post makes me sound like a real armchair racer, so take it with a grain of salt (especially as heel and toe is impossible with the ds3 which this thread was originally about).
 
OK8
especially as heel and toe is impossible with the ds3 which this thread was originally about
Click to expand...

Not impossible at all, and very doable on a DS3 with some practice -- without even having to reassign buttons -- which is why I mentioned it. Tip of thumb on Square (brake) and the meat of your thumb over the X (throttle).
 
R35-Vspec
Try decreasing brake balance for both side (Front/Rear) .. see if that helps.
Click to expand...

Exactly, if you haven't already, you can map the RA functions to your controller. I use R3 to bring up/close the menu, and then the directional buttons to set adjustments. Just go through and remap your controller for that. Then, if you want to drive without ABS, lower the brake balances. A setting of 2/2 or 3/3 is usually good. You can still get lock up but its no where near as easy, unless you're looking to intentionally destabilize the car or make severe sudden maneuvers. Now I use a driving force GT, but I did test it out with a dualshock 3. It works. No worries.
 
I know that some of those stopping challenges in licence tests are impossible to get gold using ABS. I usullay use it while racing though.
 
I always drive without abs. Put 3 upfront and 1 in the back because when you brake the weight transfers to the front meaning less traction in the back. (In real life front brakes do about 70% of the braking). It just takes some practice that's all. I drove an f40 around grand valley speedway today with the brake balance 5 front and back without locking up once.
 
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My ClubSport Fanatec pedals have load cell for the brake pedal, so it feels like almost a real car brake. It feels cool, I can play with ABS set to 0 with no problems at all.
 
how are people determing what is locking up first, sound? Replays? Data logger? Tire temp?

For the clubsport pedals, how do you have the dial set?
 
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The reason the rear wheels lock up first is because most weight is transferred to the front and has the effect of pushing the front tires in to the road and creating more front grip. You should try progressive braking by applying pressure a little more gently to allow this weight transfer to happen before jamming the stoppers on otherwise you will lock up everytime with little pressure applied.

Did this help anyone?:dunce:
 
i see about 75% the lock up point on my civic

also try adjusting the brake bias in the tuning page
weaken the rear by 1 and test
 
TheTechnobear
how are people determing what is locking up first, sound? Replays? Data logger? Tire temp?

For the clubsport pedals, how do you have the dial set?
Click to expand...

It's hard to explain but you sort of feel like you're straight lining the turn when the fronts lock up. Brake modulation is damn hard with a controller though. Might be worth it to try and find a used/refurb DFGT.

Also, softening the springs up front should reduce lock-up somewhat.
 
On the pad, the buttons are pressure sensitive. Don't just hold the brakes down as hard as you can. Also, feathering the brake or throttle helps.
 
And I usually change the settings before each race ie: Audi R8 is ABS at 5 Lambo: 10 Elise: 10 69 Camaro: 1.

Also I have the stability up on the Lambo and Elise but off to very low on most others.
 
TheTechnobear
how are people determing what is locking up first, sound? Replays? Data logger? Tire temp?

For the clubsport pedals, how do you have the dial set?
Click to expand...

The new tire sensor in the HUD will show you which tire is loosing traction it turns red and the tire wear will show as the tire bar going down or shorter. I actually like that new feature. 💡
 
I have ABS and other assists off with the Dual Shock. It's tricky, and I have to be very subtle and smooth with braking. I was experimenting on whether it's better with smooth trail braking (like most people do when, say, exiting a freeway), or the quick full stab of the brakes and then letting off easily to keep them from locking that I understand many race drivers use. I'm still deciding, and I think it depends on the car.

Anyway, I've got to where I can control cars like the S2000, Prelude, MX5 and Elan pretty well without any assists, but I thought I'd try the Arcade Ferrari last night and spent a lot of time spinning.

I also switched from using the buttons (which I used for GT3 and 4) to the stick.


Edit - I'm thinking about getting a wheel / pedal setup, but I'd have to do a lot of rearranging of stuff to be able to mount the wheel on something facing the TV.
 
i have dfgt and no abs is a serious challenge any race that is close i have to use 1 when i get a good lead going i turn it off
 
I guess I'll bump this up rather than start a new thread. Isn't that old anyways, so hopefully it's all good.

Right now I'm using a controller (No place to set my DFGT up sadly), and of course, no aids. It really isn't that hard. Outside of ABS that is.

You know why? Some joker at PD thought it would be a good idea to make the bias 50/50. So instead of the fronts locking up first, the rears always lock up first. First sign of lock up you best get off the brakes. One moment to much your spinning like a top. Great setup for drift cars, not so much racing.

All the cars are like this AFAIK. I do believe you get the bias controller with every car though, however it is annoying having to go in on every car and tweak it a smidge. 6:5 or 6:4 seem to be much better setups.

I just don't know why they put a 50:50 split when very few cars would be running a bias like that IRL. Especially on a street car.

If you think no ABS is next to impossible and suicide, change the bias. Though, that is not an option in licenses and special events I think.
 
FoxHound
Ooh.....i didn't know that.....

But if it's almost impossible to brake correctly with ABS off éven with pedals....then why is the option to turn it off there in the first place??
Click to expand...

All GT cars from GT1 thru GT4 have had ABS installed as standard. Many of us gamers over the years have wanted to see what happens if a Gran Turismo car doesn't have any ABS, to see brakes lock up under pressure.

I tried driving a Lancia Delta with ABS off the other day. It wasn't pretty! But it was challenging for sure. Nice to have a car NOT understeer while braking heavily for a change.
 

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