McDonald's bans tracksuits

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/8283276/McDonalds-bans-tracksuits.html
A McDonald's restaurant in Lancashire, UK has banned sports style clothing worn by under 18's after 7pm. A step taken to reduce threats/bad behaviour in the premises.
I like this story, much like a political or criminal story it raises interesting issues in contrast to common sense, law, those doing something that is for the 'good', and reactions of those who consider it 'wrong' or just ridiculous.
The police are apparently in full support of this zero tolerance action against tracksuit wearing persons.
I'm not expressing my personal views on this, the story is good enough as it is, but I can think of a way these people ( I am not one of these types) can stop the discrimination. They could organise a Facebook or other social network page that promotes a new religious faith called Trackybottom. A strict rule of this religion is that followers must wear sports style clothing in public, especially tracksuits. They then need just 10,000 followers for the religion to be officially recognised in UK law, just how the Jedi faith already is.
This would allow them to enter the McDonald's store wearing their sports clothing and they must not be refused service on the clothing grounds or it would be religious discrimination. All public services in the UK can not refuse to serve based on a discrimination of religion.
I think that would work anyway. There maybe exceptions though, the Tesco store near me had a sign on the door saying no hoods to be worn. It's not there now though so maybe it was withdrawn because it was illegal as it would have prevented Muslim women from entering the supermarket.
This contrasts to France which I believe has completely banned the religious dress of Muslims, the full head covering types of clothing I believe. Which is a nice idea if it's to free woman from a horrible religious law, but it also forbids them from choosing to wear something they might really want to wear. OR anyone one for that matter, I might like to wear one of those things one day just because I like the way it looks, but I wouldn't be able to in France...
 
The nonsense happening in France isn't comparable to this. This is "if you want a Big Mac, wear normal clothes." It is basically analogous to "No Shirts, No Shoes, No Service," and they have every right to put such a restriction in place because you don't have a right to that Big Mac.

The crap in France is "you cannot even go outside unless you dress the way we want you to," which is about as socially unjust as you can get.
 
Yes it contrasts to the France situation, which is very big issue I think.
But what is the solution? If society believes that it is wrong to for a religion to make such strict rules on ways of life that if involuntary would be against human rights, then it must act. The question to debate is how voluntary is it for a girl born into a family to decide whether she wants to be Muslim or not. I think it can be quite easy to assume she has little choice as to whether she can freely decide not to be Muslim, the forces at work around her are so strong. By the time she is an adult her rationality will have been corrupted by a childhood extreme of views being set upon her.
So I think it is right for a government to intervene in some way. But it is hard to see what the ideal solution is.
 
The problem with government intervention on that particular issue is that it spectacularly misses the point by assuming that "Woman wearing a Burka" = subjugation. Many Muslim women choose to wear Muslim garb so they don't (and this is the really hilariously hypocritical part) have to live to the standards that Western society places on its women.

So, basically, the French law removes a Muslim woman's right to choose clothing that she may feel more comfortable in under the (false) pretext that it harms her rights, and instead forces her to choose clothing that Western society pretends women are more comfortable in. I'm pretty sure there was a topic on this on GTP already, though, so further discussion of this should probably go in there.
 
The hood thing is perfectly understandable, it makes it very hard to prosecute a shop lifter if the video footage doesn't conclusively show their identity. But track suits?

For every chav in a trackie there has to be at least 5 normal people who for whatever reason have no taste in clothing and just want a sugary burger.
 
This has more worrying implications. If chavs stop wearing tracksuits in order to get into McDonalds, they may start adopting normal clothing.

Luckily we'll still be able to distinguish them thanks to their heavy brows, close-together eyes, bad complexions and generally terrible behaviour.
 
@Tornado: Ok, but I will say that the government of France might justifiably say the Muslim woman's choice was not free and was due to child abuse from being raised in a corruptive manner.
The truth is important to what should be lawful, but the truth of the womans choice must be clear.
Say if gang 'rape' was a traditional custom for Muslim woman/girls at a certain point as a ritual/ceremony, but it's not really rape as if she wasn't Muslim she wouldn't be raped, so if she chooses to not be Muslim she wouldn't be raped, therefore choosing to be Muslim means she consents to the gang sex therefore it is not rape. Even if she doesn't want to go through with it she does so because its her religion.
In the same way this applies to the Muslim headress, there is a chance some women dont want to wear the dress, but they must as they are Muslim. It is those people who must be protected, not the ones that do want to wear it. Because the rules of muslim religion are strict there are those who will break the law to enforce it, if they see girls or woman who are from Muslim families they might kill them if they break the faiths codes. This kind of thing happened when one of the stars from the Harry Potter films was attacked by her brother for having a boyfriend that was not Muslim, he was jailed.
That simple story reflects the human rights issues for those living under the abuse that is called religion.
 
If someone was being forced to wear a burka (physically or otherwise) in public by a spouse or family member, there is no reason to assume that banning a burka would solve the problem. Anyone who previously refused to let their wife leave the house a certain way simply wouldn't allow them to leave the house at all (and this is something that we know would be true, because it happens in Western countries already). It is basically textbook domestic abuse, and there are already laws against that.

At the same time, the idea that the ban on something that many woman do choose to wear voluntarily increases freedom of choice is ludicrous. And yet, it was probably that exact logical black hole that allowed the ban to pass in the first place.
 
Burqa.

I think this banning of chavs in track suits is a great idea. Not only does it sound completely justifiable because the troublemaker stereotype is so rampant and occurs to regularly, but this is a choice made by a private franchise and therefore is totally allowable.

On the other hand, I think it's a good idea simply because these idiot kids need to grow up and wear something decent. I honestly can't think of any American-kid stereotype that's analogous to chavs. Nobody in this country wears track suits like it's their business. At worst, high school and college kids wear sweat pants and a hoodie with their school's mascot on it, but that's because just just woke up ten minutes before class, and I don't think there is any troublemaker stereotype that goes with that. Sports jocks, maybe.
 
Nightclubs have dress codes for this exact reason. I don't see anything wrong with it. My local McDonalds is like a breeding ground for single mums and street urchins.
 
The thing is though what do they think will be the net result of this?

So it comes time for the first customers to be turned away. The people that are no trouble and are just wearing trackie's because they've been to the gym or just threw something quick, comfortable and convenient on to grab some fast food, they're not going to say 'oh of course, let me just pop home and put something more appropriate on for an establishment as prestigious as this' they'll likely never patronise the establishment again. Then they get their first trouble maker that they turn away, now your average McDonald employee isn't exactly Vin Diesel, so they're probably going to get a sovereign to the face or never feel safe leaving after a shift again.
 
I can't believe somebody after being refused service went home, got changed and went back again. What a cock :crazy:. This thread made me laugh though :lol:.
 
BigYoSpeck
The thing is though what do they think will be the net result of this?

So it comes time for the first customers to be turned away. The people that are no trouble and are just wearing trackie's because they've been to the gym or just threw something quick, comfortable and convenient on to grab some fast food, they're not going to say 'oh of course, let me just pop home and put something more appropriate on for an establishment as prestigious as this' they'll likely never patronise the establishment again.
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Does telling white trash to put a shirt or shoes on stop them from coming back? I think you underestimate the power of marketing and fat food addiction. I worked for an amusement park that banned certain types of wear on Friday and Saturday nights due to gang violence in the parking lot. The guys just hiked up their shorts and took off their bandannas and came on in. Kick a few people out for flashing gang signs at the souvenir picture cameras and that stopped too.

Then they get their first trouble maker that they turn away, now your average McDonald employee isn't exactly Vin Diesel, so they're probably going to get a sovereign to the face or never feel safe leaving after a shift again.
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The cops approve. Guess who will be eating there.

drivingmeinsane
I band McD's from my life
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Is that where you show up with your garage band and rock out in the dining area until they call the cops?
 
FoolKiller
Is that where you show up with your garage band and rock out in the dining area until they call the cops?

:lol: Actually at the McDonald's in Broad Ripple, they have an electric piano. Yes, an electric piano.
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Um, wow. Now I have seen, read, and heard everything. Okay I can see why they are doing it, but I still don't agree with it... one bit.
 
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Pathetic, not everybody who wears tracsuits are trouble making youths. I'm 16...I wouldn't rob, smash or behave inappropriately at or in McDonald's. Very strange thing to do, though in some cases I suppose it might work.
 
Couldn't they just ban/arrest the troublemakers or is that to simple.:rolleyes: People go to Mcdonald's in the Pj's and yet they do nothing about that when they should, yet they ban tracksuits, do they really think the people who are causing trouble won't just turn up wearing something that's not banned, it the people who are the problem not the clothes.:lol:
 
ASH32
Couldn't they just ban/arrest the troublemakers or is that to simple.:rolleyes: People go to Mcdonald's in the Pj's and yet they do nothing about that when they should, yet they ban tracksuits, do they really think the people who are causing trouble won't just turn up wearing something that's not banned, it the people who are the problem not the clothes.:lol:
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8484116.stm
Tesco ban on shoppers in pyjamas

A Tesco store has asked customers not to shop in their pyjamas or barefoot.
Notices have been put up in the chain's supermarket in St Mellons in Cardiff saying: "Footwear must be worn at all times and no nightwear is permitted."
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It's really not a big issue, anywhere.
 
FoolKiller
Does telling white trash to put a shirt or shoes on stop them from coming back? I think you underestimate the power of marketing and fat food addiction. I worked for an amusement park that banned certain types of wear on Friday and Saturday nights due to gang violence in the parking lot. The guys just hiked up their shorts and took off their bandannas and came on in. Kick a few people out for flashing gang signs at the souvenir picture cameras and that stopped too.
Click to expand...

It's meant to be fast food and it's fascism, just because it's not against a creed or colour doesn't make it any different. It's attention diverting blame from an establishment to an easily identifiable demographic.

And who says it's white trash? I'm pretty sure the article made no mention of their colour. I've lived in Manchester and Bolton and I can tell you, white, black & somewhere in-between trash is all the same.

To be clear on this point, I'm not sympathising for people who wear tracksuits, other than when I'm jogging it's not a look I'm down with, I'm just not that street innit. It's the idiocy of the people who pushed the policy. They are playing right into the trouble makers hands because these people are antisocial, they feel no vested interest in society and believe it's 'us vs. them' and this just confirms it by saying 'right every one who fits your stereotype is not welcome' and it's more likely to provoke the trouble they fear than combat it.
 
BigYoSpeck
To be clear on this point, I'm not sympathising for people who wear tracksuits, other than when I'm jogging it's not a look I'm down with, I'm just not that street innit. It's the idiocy of the people who pushed the policy. They are playing right into the trouble makers hands because these people are antisocial, they feel no vested interest in society and believe it's 'us vs. them' and this just confirms it by saying 'right every one who fits your stereotype is not welcome' and it's more likely to provoke the trouble they fear than combat it.
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But then the logical ones that aren't psychotic will quickly realise that if they just change clothes it's okay to go to McDo.

The ones that kick and scream, act like it's personal and what to fight the manager and harass the other customers are quite rightly the ones you don't want there.

So the system works perfectly. Logical people welcome, psychotics not.
 
ExigeEvan
But then the logical ones that aren't psychotic will quickly realise that if they just change clothes it's okay to go to McDo.

The ones that kick and scream, act like it's personal and what to fight the manager and harass the other customers are quite rightly the ones you don't want there.

So the system works perfectly. Logical people welcome, psychotics not.
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It's under 18's only and since when have they been logical. It's just the system being 'out to get them' and life's unfair wah wah! :scared:

And the kicking an screaming variety is a great way of filtering them out, it will finally give them some criminal charges they can pin on them when they beat the crap out of the staff. If the police can find the resources to camp a guy in a bush with a camera and radar gun catching all those 'heinous' speeders could they not stick someone in undercover and actually tackle the real trouble? The tracksuit thing is smoke and mirrors to make it look like they are actually doing 'policing'.
 
BigYoSpeck
It's meant to be fast food and it's fascism, just because it's not against a creed or colour doesn't make it any different.
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A dress code, fascism? Bit dramatic don't you think?

It's attention diverting blame from an establishment to an easily identifiable demographic.
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McDonald's is to blame for Chavs causing trouble? Huh?
I must be misunderstanding what you are saying here because what I think you are saying makes no sense to me.

And who says it's white trash? I'm pretty sure the article made no mention of their colour.
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I am pretty sure I was using another common dress code as an example of how this does work and not calling anyone involved in this specific case white trash.

I've lived in Manchester and Bolton and I can tell you, white, black & somewhere in-between trash is all the same.
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I've lived in Louisville, Lexington, Bowling Green, and Frankfort and I can tell you I agree.

It's the idiocy of the people who pushed the policy. They are playing right into the trouble makers hands because these people are antisocial, they feel no vested interest in society and believe it's 'us vs. them' and this just confirms it by saying 'right every one who fits your stereotype is not welcome' and it's more likely to provoke the trouble they fear than combat it.
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I said it before, the article mentions that cops approve. Guess who will be eating there.


BigYoSpeck
The tracksuit thing is smoke and mirrors to make it look like they are actually doing 'policing'.
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Um, it is a private establishment establishing a dress code. No one is pretending to police anything.
 
FoolKiller
A dress code, fascism? Bit dramatic don't you think?
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'Fascism (pronounced /ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a radical and authoritarian nationalist political ideology'

We don't want you to dress like this because in our Dailymail view of the world people who do are no good. The Germans blamed the Bolshevik Jews for Germany's economic troubles and rallied the every day people behind their persecution and now rather than tackling the real causes of crimes the police are pointing the finger in a dangerously broad sweeping way.

FoolKiller
McDonald's is to blame for Chavs causing trouble? Huh?
I must be misunderstanding what you are saying here because what I think you are saying makes no sense to me.
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No this policy is a recommendation by the local police:

''The local police are working with us at the moment and their advice is to take a zero tolerance approach.''

So rather than doing any policing they are selling them snake oil.


FoolKiller
I am pretty sure I was using another common dress code as an example of how this does work and not calling anyone involved in this specific case white trash.
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FoolKiller
Does telling white trash to put a shirt or shoes on stop them from coming back?
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Your words

FoolKiller
Um, it is a private establishment establishing a dress code. No one is pretending to police anything.
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Again I quote the article:

'''We are taking advice at the moment and the police have been brilliant with us. We are taking a zero tolerance approach for the short term.''

The manager has probably been on the case of the local police and the best they can do is say, why don't you stop serving any one who remotely fits their stereotype. Snake oil.
 
BigYoSpeck
Your words
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Note the "shirt and shoes". There's a US phenomenon of "white trash" wandering around outside barefoot and barechested (similar to the UK phenomenon of people wandering around outside in their pyjamas in less salubrious housing areas) and many establishments refuse entry or service to these individuals. They put up signs saying "No shirt, No shoes, No service".

Nothing to do with this case. Thus:

Foolkiller
I was using another common dress code as an example of how this does work and not calling anyone involved in this specific case white trash.
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BigYoSpeck
'Fascism (pronounced /ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a radical and authoritarian nationalist political ideology'
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Thanks for reminding us of the definition. Now explain how any of those things apply to this situation, because:
This isn't radical.
This isn't authoritarian.
This isn't nationalistic.
This isn't political.
This isn't even an ideology.

For crying out loud, it is a dress code put in place (only partially, even!) in a single privately owned store which is part of a multinational business franchise. How that is remotely analogous to pre-war Germany I'll doubt I'll ever understand, but please explain if possible.
 
I don't see the problem here, it's kinda funny IMO. McDonald's is a private business, they have every right to have a dress code. Is wearing a suit and tie to a nice restaurant fascism too? What about school uniforms? Hell, the Mcdonald's employees have uniforms.


Mountains out of molehills....
 
C6R GT2
What the hell is a "Chav"? It sounds like a teenager gigolo sex slave who wears leather pants with no material in the butt.
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There's many definitions, but the best way for it to be internationally comprehensible is "an individual who personifies the lowest common denominator".

Think Guidos, except for a different culture.
 

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