Weight Transfer/Lift Off?
- Thread starter Hunt3rj2
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werty_56-1
(Banned)
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- Portugal
- 158
- MTLclllutch
must be your tunes because i have no trouble with this. if your using anything more than sports medium thats your problem.
- 128
- New York
- lik3theangel05
If anything, AWD and FF cars would understeer; not have lift off oversteer. In fact both of those drivetrain layouts are meant to be easy to control/predictable. This is why most cars on the road today are FF or AWD. Most cars, even high performance cars, have understeer built in to make it safer to drive.
Cars with most of their weight in the back (Yellowbird) will tend to have lift off oversteer like older RR porsches. These porsches were known to have lift off oversteer, which is mostly remedied in modern porsches by having wider rear tires.
- 863
- oops_sorryy
With FFs I've never really found lift off oversteer, but lifting on the throttle will reduce understeer at times when the tires are over stressed from both accelerating and turning at the same time.
The GT-R is a very special case because without VDC the ATTESA is the only thing managing traction, and the AWD system starts putting more power to the back the harder you turn, and the less throttle you apply the more power goes to the back. The AWD system's distribution is something like 2-98 under normal circumstances, and as soon as the power starts being fed into it more power goes to the front wheels. So letting off the throttle at all when the rear end is trying to slide is a good way to end up backwards. The 911 Turbo has a similar AWD system. Randy Pobst's notes on the 2012 GT-R is pretty clear that there is snap-oversteer present in the GT-R at the limit, but usually it's mostly neutral or just a touch of understeer exists.
FF hot hatches should also have lots of lift off, because that's stock that's exactly how they manage to get thrown into a big drift in the first place.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raBWKJhevh8
I have never, on any set of tires for any stock FF car, managed to spin it out without using the handbrake or getting the rear wheels onto grass.
I know that cars like the Yellowbird and some MR cars can pull it off, but in general I almost never see any in the first place.
This is probably something for GT6 though, AWD systems need to be modeled more accurately and FF cars need to have more realistic handling. In general, all premium cars really should have accurate transmission modeling in gear ratios, accurate brakeforce distribution, the actual real life suspension values, etc.
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- 5,812
- shmogt
I find lifting off the gas mid corner is the absolute best way to race. Whenever I hit the gas my car understeers but when I lift off I grip extra close to the corner and it goes around it a lot faster. It's impossible to oversteer by letting off the gas, at least in the game.
- 494
- Scotland
- YankDoodlePidg
And how is this an extreme case? The Lotus was made to be driven on road hard tires but can have some bad oversteer if you overcook it.
Going into corners, the weight will want to move to the front (obviously) when doing so, the rear end becomes incredibly light and momentum pushes it round with the limited grip from the road hard tires.
- 2,623
- Pompey
- CyKosis1973
I've built at least two cars that rely on a little lift-off oversteer to help them around the track. One is from mixed tarmac/gravel/snow and the other is pure tarmac. Everything is dependent on how you've setup your suspension. Soft springs and enough room for them to work is necessary, as demonstrated with the 206 👍
207 GTi
206 S16
{Cy}
207 GTi
206 S16
{Cy}
Scaff
Moderator
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- ScaffUK
A huge number of FWD cars will exhibit lift-off oversteer and in fact rely on it as a primary handling trait.
The 205 GTi....
...did it to such a massive degree that they left car shaped holes in the hedges throughout the English countryside.
My old Primera 2.0e GT had very easily and controllable lift off oversteer (and again was a car known for this trait), as did my last gen Celica.
Its also a trait that applies to every FWD Renaultsport model made.
So while front wheel drive cars will understeer initially (as will just about any road car - as you correctly observe), in a lot of performance orientated FWD cars if you then lift the throttle they will oversteer.
Watch and learn
Scaff
.- 128
- New York
- lik3theangel05
huh, you learn something new everyday.
I'm not too familiar with FF cars. Most FF cars I've been exposed to are econoboxes. I've never even heard of Renault or Peugeot (I live in the US) until I got GT5. That, and FF sports cars are rare.
I also notice that FF cars in GT5 understeer less/stop understeering when off throttle in a corner.
I'm not too familiar with FF cars. Most FF cars I've been exposed to are econoboxes. I've never even heard of Renault or Peugeot (I live in the US) until I got GT5. That, and FF sports cars are rare.
I also notice that FF cars in GT5 understeer less/stop understeering when off throttle in a corner.
Of course it'll do it, and I have one, but the problem here is that anything not RR or MR just refuses to do it. Only has the car tuck in and stop understeering.
Apparently lift-off oversteer was much easier to come by in GT5
, which is really quite interesting... Maybe I'm just missing something, because I just run cars with ABS, which should mean that they should be realistic...Something that's kind of sad is that NFS Shift might actually have a more realistic physics engine than GT5, the issue is that we just can't peer underneath the hood of GT5...
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- 59
Agreed...
Weight transfer oversteer in general doesn't seem to work at more subtle levels like lift-off. It takes some exaggeration like MR-RR or really big steering movements to get the car going.
Weight transfer oversteer in general doesn't seem to work at more subtle levels like lift-off. It takes some exaggeration like MR-RR or really big steering movements to get the car going.
- 1,244
- Illinois, U.S.A
- Mr_Lucky_Pants
- mrluckypants96
Only really shows this off at slow corners after a long straight, and under braking. Otherwise it's just a lot of understeer.
Some more notes, I've tried the Elise 111R stock with a few mods (sport headers, racing air filter), with sport hard tires. The oversteer from lift off is functionally nothing compared to throttle on oversteer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RcA7a8uPWo
I have never had this happen in GT5 yet. It seems like the lack of weight transfer causing oversteer makes it far, far too easy to play with the throttle mid-corner and get away with it. I know that when I drive in GT5 I can cure mid-corner understeer by lifting off, and I never have to countersteer, the car just stops understeering as much and I go on with my day.
Maybe I should just consider getting a DFGT or G27 to try to figure this out though...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RcA7a8uPWo
I have never had this happen in GT5 yet. It seems like the lack of weight transfer causing oversteer makes it far, far too easy to play with the throttle mid-corner and get away with it. I know that when I drive in GT5 I can cure mid-corner understeer by lifting off, and I never have to countersteer, the car just stops understeering as much and I go on with my day.
Maybe I should just consider getting a DFGT or G27 to try to figure this out though...
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- 59
I'm going to give the Elise a try again but as I recall it has a ton of liftoff oversteer using comfort softs.
My other issue with weight transfer is that you can't use the throttle to transfer weight on the back to recover from that oversteer...
And do try with a wheel, as your steering input will be quite gimped by the controller.
My other issue with weight transfer is that you can't use the throttle to transfer weight on the back to recover from that oversteer...
And do try with a wheel, as your steering input will be quite gimped by the controller.
That may be the issue with the Elise...
In other news, the Elise is hilarious to drive on Trial Mountain with racing soft and enough horsepower on the stock suspension. Nothing quite like driving on two wheels.
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