New Cape Ring time trial; catch air at jump = invalid lap

Short Bus · Feb 9, 2012

Way to go PD. Clearly you're testing these things out before publishing them.

*edit* the assumption at the time of this posting was that this happened to every car, but I simply happened to be unlucky enough to find the one car that this seems to happen to and use it on my first attempt. Although, my theory is that this may happen to any car that lands at an angle where bodywork comes into contact with the ground. So it's not the car leaving the ground that causes this, but perhaps how it lands.

*edit* #2

Got a video. Sorry about the quality but it shows what you need to see....

Have a look at the damage to the front bumper caused by the impact....

I looked and the *only* upgrade to the car is the fixed sport suspension kit.

diegorborges · Feb 9, 2012

Just did 2 laps on this, I've had some airtime and my laps were valid. No problem at all.

moparisgod · Feb 9, 2012

Short Bus
Way to go PD. Clearly you're testing these things out before publishing them.

Way to go Short Bus. Clearly you have failed to tell us what you are talking about before publishing.

Short Bus · Feb 9, 2012

moparisgod
Way to go Short Bus. Clearly you have failed to tell us what you are talking about before publishing.

Did you read the subject line? What more needs to be said to get the point across? If you're going to be a tool in your next post I'll respond in kind.

First lap it did it I was confused. Second try I duplicated it by driving dead center over the jump in a 497 pp Camaro SS with fixed sport suspension. Same result, invalid lap. Third lap I slowed down for the jump, no air, valid lap.

MoLiEG · Feb 9, 2012

Ohhh... another time trial??? :dunce:

So... no Seasonal??? AGAIN???? :ill:

Short Bus · Feb 9, 2012

Tried with SRT-8, caught air and no red numbers. Going to try the Camaro again.

Short Bus · Feb 9, 2012

Camaro SS '10 = catch air = invalid lap

Since this was the very first car I chose, I assumed that it was the same for every car; this appears to not be the case.

Still.... WTF.

Bwootzabaa · Feb 9, 2012

Short Bus
Camaro SS '10 = catch air = invalid lap

Since this was the very first car I chose, I assumed that it was the same for every car; this appears to not be the case.

Still.... WTF.

Isn't that odd...but good find.👍

Short Bus · Feb 9, 2012

Bwootzabaa
Isn't that odd...but good find.👍

I think *maybe* it has to do with the fact that when the car comes down the nose dives very steeply and maybe the front bumper hits the pavement. Perhaps the game detects the car's bodywork coming into contact with something and causing the invalid lap.

But I just turned off the Playstation, so I'm not going to fire it up to test this theory by running into a barrier that creeps up to the track and watching a replay video of what the car looks like when it hits the ground.

With the Challenger when the car caught air it came down more evenly and there was no "thud" when it landed.

Matty · Feb 9, 2012

Short Bus
I think *maybe* it has to do with the fact that when the car comes down the nose dives very steeply and maybe the front bumper hits the pavement. Perhaps the game detects the car's bodywork coming into contact with something and causing the invalid lap.

But I just turned off the Playstation, so I'm not going to fire it up to test this theory by running into a barrier that creeps up to the track and watching a replay video of what the car looks like when it hits the ground.

With the Challenger when the car caught air it came down more evenly and there was no "thud" when it landed.

As far as I know the game call a red lap when you cross a boundary that the game thinks is too your advantage, or, when you hit something with sufficient force and seem to gain a advantage from it.

So I think your right as if a car was to hit a wall at roughly 100mph when going round a corner and come out at a higher speed a advantage would be gained, so the game's assuming the road that your bumper hits is a wall and calls it invalid because of your lack of speed loss.

I assume this will happen in any car that hits the ground in a similar way.

Short Bus · Feb 9, 2012

mattymc96
As far as I know the game call a red lap when you cross a boundary that the game thinks is too your advantage, or, when you hit something with sufficient force and seem to gain a advantage from it.

So I think your right as if a car was to hit a wall at roughly 100mph when going round a corner and come out at a higher speed a advantage would be gained, so the game's assuming the road that your bumper hits is a wall and calls it invalid because of your lack of speed loss.

I assume this will happen in any car that hits the ground in a similar way.

This makes sense.

My very first thought when I posted this, as somebody who's written code for a living, is that the easiest way to determine an invalid lap would be to set a flag when all four tires leave a predefined portion of the play area. Because if you're like me and you completely ignore the rally aspect of this game, Cape Ring is the one of the very few places where your car leaves the ground (only other place I can think of is the Nurburgring in a *really* fast car).

But with the rally courses the solution would have to be a little more detailed.

I'm curious to see if anybody else manages to find another car that causes this to happen.

HaylRayzor · Feb 9, 2012

Short Bus
(only other place I can think of is the Nurburgring in a *really* fast car).

You forgot Eiger Nordwand.

I got plenty of air in the Shelby Series One. Clean lap.

One thing that I find odd is that the top times are being set with the Camaro SS '10. Are these guys not getting air?

Short Bus · Feb 9, 2012

Right right... Eiger. I don't drive that track much so I forgot about it.

After I checked who was driving what I thought it was funny that people were posting such fast laps in the Camaro. My only guess is maybe it has to do with the choice in suspensions. The guys running at the top are probably running the fully adjustable setup rather than the fixed sports setup I had, which from the looks of it slams the car to the ground. Maybe raising it a bit keeps the bumper off the ground and is the difference between what I've experienced and them.

Morgoth_666 · Feb 9, 2012

Short Bus
This makes sense.

My very first thought when I posted this, as somebody who's written code for a living, is that the easiest way to determine an invalid lap would be to set a flag when all four tires leave a predefined portion of the play area. Because if you're like me and you completely ignore the rally aspect of this game, Cape Ring is the one of the very few places where your car leaves the ground (only other place I can think of is the Nurburgring in a *really* fast car).

But with the rally courses the solution would have to be a little more detailed.

I'm curious to see if anybody else manages to find another car that causes this to happen.

Anything remotely sporty will leave the ground at the beginning of the Pflantzgarten section. '97 Z28 is enough to do it, and probably not the lower limit. It takes a little more to catch air at Quiddelbacher-Höhe but not too extreme. Of course, you might not leave the ground for very long...

Veering OT, I know.

1241Penguin · Feb 9, 2012

The game will give you an invalid time for the stupidest reasons, like if you go too wide and end up in the gravel, you'll get an invalid time for some reason.

Morgoth_666 · Feb 9, 2012

If you stop on-track for a couple seconds you'll go red too. Can't have cheating like that! Yet you can reverse all you want and the "stewards" are fine with it.

zippy_the_cat · Feb 9, 2012

Short Bus
Way to go PD. Clearly you're testing these things out before publishing them.

*edit* the assumption at the time of this posting was that this happened to every car, but I simply happened to be unlucky enough to find the one car that this seems to happen to and use it on my first attempt. Although, my theory is that this may happen to any car that lands at an angle where bodywork comes into contact with the ground. So it's not the car leaving the ground that causes this, but perhaps how it lands.

Nope. I got plenty of red laps using a Camaro '10 but not for catching air on the jump. It's real unforgiving, though, about contact with solid objects other than the road. The most frustrating case of which for me was when I strayed a bit left coming over the crest after you leave the ring complex and catching the patch in the pavement -- an insta-spin into the guardrail. Ruined an otherwise hooked-up lap and cost me some extra work.

Edit: I was using the stock suspension.

Nuck81 · Feb 9, 2012

I used the SS '10 and never got an invalid lap for the jump.

Got plenty for taking corners too hot though :mad:

Lustika · Feb 9, 2012

With a rearwing you push the back of the car down in the jump and then the front won't touch the ground and you will have no red laps.

moshberry · Feb 9, 2012

Tried a Ram 1500, power restricted...

...nice drifter, it turns out

Jaywalker · Feb 9, 2012

moshberry
Tried a Ram 1500, power restricted...

...nice drifter, it turns out

What rubber were you using?

iamjajo · Feb 9, 2012

I used the 2010 Camaro with no problems. Hit the jump at 110 MPH and got plenty of air...no invalid lap when landing. By the way, my car is not raised up

Apmaddock · Feb 9, 2012

I'll bet Short Bus is using the racing flywheel and clutch. The extra torque that goes through the car with those parts will cause the car to pitch drastically when the wheels come off of the ground.

Switch back to the stock flywheel and clutch and you'll have no problems.

Sources: My own experience running the Camaro SS '10 on this track without a red lap at the jump and Budious' research regarding drivetrain tuning. (Check here, post #19)

Lustika · Feb 9, 2012

Apmaddock
I'll bet Short Bus is using the racing flywheel and clutch. The extra torque that goes through the car with those parts will cause the car to pitch drastically when the wheels come off of the ground.

Switch back to the stock flywheel and clutch and you'll have no problems.

Sources: My own experience running the Camaro SS '10 on this track without a red lap at the jump and Budious' research regarding drivetrain tuning. (Check here, post #19)

I got all those things and a wing. No problem. But with more torque shouldn't the car lift the front? When flying on a bike you can controll the front wheel with your throttle. More throttle = higher frontwheel. To much throttle when you leave the jump and you turn over backwards. Not the same with cars?

Apmaddock · Feb 9, 2012

Lustika
I got all those things and a wing. No problem. But with more torque shouldn't the car lift the front? When flying on a bike you can controll the front wheel with your throttle. More throttle = higher frontwheel. To much throttle when you leave the jump and you turn over backwards. Not the same with cars?

Nope, you're right. More torque should make the car want to wheelie and rear downforce should intensify that effect.

I guess I was assuming that Shorty was hitting his rear end on the ground. I re-read the posts and see that it was his front.

Never mind, then. Consider my point moot in this discussion.

Still, though. I got gold with the Camaro SS '10 at 500 PP with no wing. Had stock drivetrain and flew quite a bit at the crest. No red flag for me for that.

jedisteampunk · Feb 9, 2012

I have finally managed to crack both of these. I did have some problems with the Camaro SS '10 on the 500pp trial. It kept on getting getting red at the jump section. But changed to the GT40 no stripe and passed it first go. On the second trial I also passed that first time using the 2j. The second event is much easier in my opinion. I also found the GT40 to be much more stable and was able to attack the corners a lot more without getting a red. I'm about 3360 odd in the 500pp event,which I'm pretty pleased at considering that I'm using a controller and have limited usage of my arm as it is in plaster at the moment.

Short Bus · Feb 9, 2012

I'll check the clutch and flywheel thing.

Are you guys going flat out through the left hander leading up to it? I'll mess with it again tonight. If replay shows the lap timer turning red I'll see if I can make a video showing what's going on.

eclipsee · Feb 9, 2012

I got an invalid lap using a Cadillac Cien, that happened when the arse made contact with the ground after the jump.
It's a pity this car is not competitive in this TT, I love it anyway.

peterjford · Feb 9, 2012

Short Bus
I'll check the clutch and flywheel thing.

Are you guys going flat out through the left hander leading up to it? I'll mess with it again tonight. If replay shows the lap timer turning red I'll see if I can make a video showing what's going on.

I never got a red lap in the Edge Camaro and I definitely get a lot of air. I can almost take the left hander flat out leading up to it. Each time I get there I think "I'm not going to lift, I'm not going to lift" and then at the last second I lift. I think a gentle tap with the left foot on the brake might work better. Some suspension tuning would probably make it take that flat as well.

Short Bus · Feb 10, 2012

Got a video. Sorry about the quality but it shows what you need to see....

Have a look at the damage to the front bumper caused by the impact....

I looked and the *only* upgrade to the car is the fixed sport suspension kit.

New Cape Ring time trial; catch air at jump = invalid lap

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