A Large Problem faced by GT5's Clutch Users.

MOTORTRENDmitch

MOTORTRENDmitch

3,531
Canada
London, Ontario
Starky513
Ok so, GT5's wheel users have one major issue. It is the clutch. You cannot maintain throttle during a shift or it will give you a "Mis-shift". It simply stays in neutral and you lose a lot of speed. This is a very big problem and annoyance, mostly because we have to resort to using the paddles, which is simply not as fun, and not as realistic if you are using a manual car. I still use the H-Pattern and clutch, how ever I rarely use it during an actual race, and certainly never if it is a close race. Thing is, this game is capable of power shifting. In many cases, you can gas it, and just nail the clutch as you shift, while still throttling it, and it will shift as it should. This ONLY happens, on grass/sand and slippery surfaces such as the yellow and black striped surface on INDY road coarse. You can make one quick shift if you are spinning your tires, but you must be traveling at no more then 18MPH or it simply won't go into gear. When shifting, the game allows you about 15% Throttle at most. Any more then this, and it will just stay in neutral. Fixing this (Which has been out since day one of Gran Turismo 5's existence) would change a wheel user's game play for the better. GT5 has many other strange occurrances with the H pattern and Clutch. If you have your Gear lever in any gear (including reverse) but then go on to use the paddles, it will forget that the lever is even there, until however you tap the clutch, and then it immediately goes into the selected gear. This can be used for an advantage for launching. You can put the lever in 2nd, but click the paddle into 1st gear, so instead of clicking the paddle for 2nd gear, you can tap the clutch for an Ultra Fast gear change. I would love for this to be fixed for I have literally lost races because of a "missed" shift. I should mention, I don't want this fixed JUST so I can mash the gas though every shift, that simply wouldn't happen in real life. What I would like however, is to know that if I put the lever in the correct position, that I can be assured it will keep accelerating.

Thank you for reading.
 
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They should make a change where long term flat foot shifting when using a wheel causes damage in cars that don't have a custom transmission installed.
 
From my experience using a fanatec wheel, in some gears you can shift with up to 20% throttle in some cases, could just be the delay of the throttle bar going down though.
 
tuga703
From my experience using a fanatec wheel, in some gears you can shift with up to 20% throttle in some cases, could just be the delay of the throttle bar going down though.
Click to expand...

Yeah I was going to throw that in. But what ever :P
 
I understand complaining about the GT5 clutch being a mere on/off switch, but what's the problem with taking off your foot from the throttle? You wouldn't accelerate while changing gears in a real car, as it will rev your engine for no reason; eventually breaking your transmission or burning the clutch.
Am I missing something?
 
I usually only have this problem going from 1st to 2nd gear, in torque-y cars like V8s and V10s. Shifting from 1-2nd in a stock Viper takes ages.
 
Yeah I noticed this too. It pisses me off! Especially when I try to drive Group C cars and I want to get that 80's sports car feel. It definitely ruins the moment. :ouch:
 
TP1
I understand complaining about the GT5 clutch being a mere on/off switch, but what's the problem with taking off your foot from the throttle? You wouldn't accelerate while changing gears in a real car, as it will rev your engine for no reason; eventually breaking your transmission or burning the clutch.
Am I missing something?
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The game is a "simulator". I would like to be able to do what you can do in real life if you please.
 
MOTORTRENDmitch
The game is a "simulator". I would like to be able to do what you can do in real life if you please.
Click to expand...

I didn't know that you can continue to accelerate while changing gears with the clutch in real life.
However if you're reffering to rev matching and changing gears without the clutch, then that's a whole different story: in which case the clutch has nothing to do with it.
 
its called power shifting, you hold the gas pedal down while reaching the peak of your torque curve and then shift into next gear by very quickly depressing the clutch and letting go, keeps the car in peak power range. not really useful in a lot of situations except for drag racing
 
It's also a good way to destroy your synchros in a hurry. In high school my friend kept doing that to a Mustang GT. Eventually it would not go into 2nd gear at all.
 
I hate this too, but what truly pisses me off is trying to go the gears and shifting from first to second gear. It is nearly impossible to do it quick.
 
TP1
I didn't know that you can continue to accelerate while changing gears with the clutch in real life.
However if you're reffering to rev matching and changing gears without the clutch, then that's a whole different story: in which case the clutch has nothing to do with it.
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you don't..
I'm saying, It takes longer to let off the accelerator, and then change gear, while also running a bigger risk of missing the gear, not because of human error, but because of technical problem.
 
TP1
I understand complaining about the GT5 clutch being a mere on/off switch, but what's the problem with taking off your foot from the throttle? You wouldn't accelerate while changing gears in a real car, as it will rev your engine for no reason; eventually breaking your transmission or burning the clutch.
Am I missing something?
Click to expand...

Google rev-matching, or heel-toe. Great link in my sig. It can actually save your clutch.
 
TP1
I understand complaining about the GT5 clutch being a mere on/off switch, but what's the problem with taking off your foot from the throttle? You wouldn't accelerate while changing gears in a real car, as it will rev your engine for no reason; eventually breaking your transmission or burning the clutch.
Am I missing something?
Click to expand...

No. Even when the clutch is fully depressed, and the accelerator pedal is fully released, and you make a gear change, you will still occasionally get into neutral.

And what you're describing is powershifting, a very common technique used in real life.
 
It's not an ideal solution, but after the race starts as long as you don't touch the clutch pedal then you can shift with the H-shifter without using the clutch. Once you activate the clutch by pressing it, it will stay activated until you use the paddle shifter, at which point the clutch deactivates again. You don't have to let off the gas at all because it essentially works like the paddle shifters but you get to go through the motions of using the shifter. Call it a "gated sequential" if you will, best of both worlds.
 
BrandonW77
It's not an ideal solution, but after the race starts as long as you don't touch the clutch pedal then you can shift with the H-shifter without using the clutch. Once you activate the clutch by pressing it, it will stay activated until you use the paddle shifter, at which point the clutch deactivates again. You don't have to let off the gas at all because it essentially works like the paddle shifters but you get to go through the motions of using the shifter. Call it a "gated sequential" if you will, best of both worlds.
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yeah I often do this. It saves one from not getting a shift, but also takes away from the fun :P
 
There have been problems with the G27 clutch since the game was released. I have always used my G27 to play the game. So, I think saying that this issue is a game breaker is an 'Epic' over exaggeration .
 
On topic: I've not had this problem, so I would agree in saying that this isn't a game-breaker to "GT5's Wheel Users", just a game breaker to you.


MOTORTRENDmitch
The game is a "simulator". I would like to be able to do what you can do in real life if you please.
Click to expand...

Interesting that you call it a game and put simulator in quotes.

Gran Turismo 5 may use the word simulator in it's tagline and it's certainly very authentic, but it's a game. I think it will always be a game, too. There's no possible way you will accurately and completely re-create over 1,000 cars in just a few years. iRacing is a perfect example, as it's got fewer cars than there are Nissan 350Z's and it's been on the market for quite awhile.
 
I rarely use my clutch because it goes into neutral too often. I also can't be competitive when racing online. It is a game breaker if a wheel user with a clutch can't compete with DS3 and paddle shifter users.
 
bs13
I rarely use my clutch because it goes into neutral too often. I also can't be competitive when racing online. It is a game breaker if a wheel user with a clutch can't compete with DS3 and paddle shifter users.
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A clutch wouldn't be competitive against paddle shifts in real life, either. When I'm online, I tend to stick with paddles as it keeps it competitive. I'm more about having a fun time racing against people than enjoying the challenge of driving with a clutch and racing.
 
BrandonW77
It's not an ideal solution, but after the race starts as long as you don't touch the clutch pedal then you can shift with the H-shifter without using the clutch. Once you activate the clutch by pressing it, it will stay activated until you use the paddle shifter, at which point the clutch deactivates again. You don't have to let off the gas at all because it essentially works like the paddle shifters but you get to go through the motions of using the shifter. Call it a "gated sequential" if you will, best of both worlds.
Click to expand...

I drive some of the racing cars like this, particularly the Falcon XR8 V8 Supercar in the game, which actually has a Hollinger Six-Speed H-Pattern racing gearbox, and in real life the drivers only really used the clutch on downshifts and off the line.
 
peter_vod69
I drive some of the racing cars like this, particularly the Falcon XR8 V8 Supercar in the game, which actually has a Hollinger Six-Speed H-Pattern racing gearbox, and in real life the drivers only really used the clutch on downshifts and off the line.
Click to expand...

I have 3 Falcon XR8s, mostly from botched tickets :grumpy:
 
We use power-shifting when drag racing our sport bikes also, just tap the clutch while changing gears. If you fully depressed the clutch you would be left behind real quick. I wouldn't recommend doing it to your daily driver but in a game there is no consequence.
 
I believe the story goes like this: in early versions of prologue powershifting was enabled completely (no going to neutral because of throttle) but it gave clutch drivers a big advantage so it was bummed down. There was no clutch damage there was no consequence for doing this and it gave you extra acceleration. Now changing with clutch is at best slightly worse than changing with the paddles.

It's funny to note how in LFS the development has gone to a completely different direction; at first paddle shifters had perfect throttle blip and cut implemented (just as in GT5) but it was changed so now clutch drivers have maybe a slight advantage (the game simultes clutch wear so you can't powershift for long).

Personally I don't have a problem with the current situation. I always use the clutch in appropriate cars and not often do I feel like I'm being left behind because of it. Of course having clutch wear and enabling powershifting just like it is in LFS would be the ideal but although I know changing with clutch is slower in the current situation I still can't stop it because I enjoy it so much. Shifting with paddles is just too boring.
 
OK8
It's funny to note how in LFS the development has gone to a completely different direction; at first paddle shifters had perfect throttle blip and cut implemented (just as in GT5) but it was changed so now clutch drivers have maybe a slight advantage (the game simultes clutch wear so you can't powershift for long).

Personally I don't have a problem with the current situation. I always use the clutch in appropriate cars and not often do I feel like I'm being left behind because of it. Of course having clutch wear and enabling powershifting just like it is in LFS would be the ideal but although I know changing with clutch is slower in the current situation I still can't stop it because I enjoy it so much. Shifting with paddles is just too boring.
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what is LFS? i didnt see anything else about that in this thread.

:)
 
gordie44
what is LFS? i didnt see anything else about that in this thread.

:)
Click to expand...

He might be referring to Live for Speed... I agree, though, that it's odd to bring up the acronym without mentioning the title and assuming everyone knows what you're talking about.
 

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