JSTC GT400 (GT300) Season 2 - Winter Test Session 2/9/13 4pm Pst

joetruckv8 · Jan 8, 2013

Jstc GT400 (GT300) Season 2

Thanks alefin!!!

We'll be discussion quite a number of things to better improve our next season racing experience.

Race Distance:
200km: <---- Closed!!!

Tire Compound Poll:
Soft/Med 6x:tup:
Med/Hard 3x:tup:
Both/Tires 2x:tup:👍

Staged Starting Poll:
Standing Start 2x:tup:
Rolling Start 6x:tdown:

Car Density Poll:
3 Chassis 3x:tup:
4 Chassis 2x:tdown:

Dropped Races Poll:
Drop 2 5x:tup:👍
Drop 1 0x:tup:
Drop 0 4x:tdown:

Pit Strategy Poll:
1 to 2 stop pitting w/ tires set to normal wear 5x:tup:
2 to 3 stop pitting w/ tires set to fast wear 0x:tdown:

New Chassis Poll
Adding new chassis: 2x:tup:
Dropping new chassis: 5x:tdown:

1 Round |vs| 2 Rounds With Rev Grid poll:
1 Round 200km: 6x:tup:
2 Rounds with Rev Grid 100km each 1x:tdown:

Time penalty vs Points penalty Poll:
Timed penalty: 6x:tup:
Points penalty: 5x:tdown:

Pre Season Races Poll: 0 Races | 1 Race | 2 Races
2 Race: x6 👍👍
1 Race: 0x:tup:
0 Race: 0x:tdown:

Car Reg Poll:
Scenario 1: 0x:tup:
Scenario 2: 1x:tdown:

Season 2 Track List as of now'
Fuji F
Spa
Monza
Indy Road
Suzuka
Nurburg GP/F
Motegi Road
La Sarthe

Pre Season
Mazda
Tokyo R246

All-star Weekend Round
Nurburgring Nord

Track List Count:
Fuji F 👍👍👍👍 4
Fuji GT 👍👍👍 3
Spa 👍👍👍👍👍 5
Spa (weather)
Monaco 👍 1
Monza 👍👍👍 3
Monza (weather) 👍 1
Mazda 👍👍 2
Suzuka 👍👍👍👍👍 5
Suzuka (weather)
Daytona Oval 👍 1
Daytona Road 👍👍 2
Indy Oval 👍 1
Indy Road 👍👍👍 3
Nurburg GP/F 👍👍👍👍 4
Nurburg GP/D
Nurburg Nord 👍👍 2
Motegi Road 👍👍👍👍 4
Motegi Short
La Sarthe 👍👍👍👍 4
La Sarthe (weather)
Grand Valley 👍👍 2
Grand Valley Rev
Grand Valley East
Grand Valley East Rev
Tokyo R246 👍👍 2
Tokyo R246 Rev
Madrid
Madrid Rev 👍 1
SSR5
SSR5 Rev 👍 1
Hi Speed Ring
Hi Speed Ring Rev
Hi Speed Ring (weather)
Hi Speed Ring Rev (weather)
Autumn Ring
Autumn Ring Rev
Deep Forest
Deep Forest Rev
Trail Mountain
Trail Mountain Rev
Rome
Rome Rev
Cape Ring South
Tsukuba 👍 1

Steward List:

Founder/Steward: JoeTruckV8
Co Founder/Steward: ZachAK47
Steward: FreshSeth83
Steward: TnT 2000 (boom)
Steward: XxShaggyxX
Steward: Willfred_1
Steward: rosckolove
Steward: Phil Bell
Steward: Bazzer

Car Choice:

01 Phil Bell / Premium RX-7
02 FreshSeth83 / Standard Subaru
03 JoeTruckV8 / Cusco Subaru '08
04 Rosckolove / Standard RX-7
05 TnT 2000 / Cusco Subaru '08
06 TylerJDallas / Withdrawl
07 Bazzer / Wed's Celica
08 Willfred_1 / Cusco Subaru '08
09 Racefan_88 / Arta Garaiya
10 SkengD / Wed's Celica
11 ZachAK47 / Premium RX-7
12 Cam From NJ /
13 twistedfirwork / Standard RX-7
14 Calum.McHale / Lexus IS350
15 XxShaggyxX / Premium RX-7 (prov)

Next up Cam! hopefully he sticks with he's Lexus Chassis. Him and Calum will be strong for the team championship pts!

Immediate Topics:

1. Race Distance: 175km | 200km 👍 | 220km max <-----Decided!
2. Tire Compounds: Softs | Meds | Hards<---- 2 compounds per weekend
3. Tire 2 Compound Choice: Softs & Meds & Hards <---- Mandatory To Use Both Compounds
4. Car Density (How Many Cars Per Chassis) <---- 3 Per Chassis
5. Pre Season Races: 0 Races | 1 Race | 2 Races
6. 1 Round |vs| 2 Rounds With Rev Grid
A) Round 1 Only
7. Pit Strategy:
A)Softs @ 2 stop pitting w/ tires set to normal wear
B)Meds @ 2 stop pitting w/ tires set to fast wear
C)Meds @ 1 stop pitting w/ tires set to normal wear <---- Our Current Scenario

* Qualifying: If we get more then 16 drivers to sign up we will have to keep our previous qualifying scenario, but if we get 16 drivers or less then will add a 20 min qualifying segment before race start!!!

* There will be either polls setup, or a personalize voting arrangement thru our op to insure only drivers are voting.

freshseth83 · Jan 8, 2013

I think running two compounds with mandatory usage of both would be great. Might spice up qualifying. The thing you could do is let the drivers decide what they want to start with. Mediums or Softs. Instead of the top times being in one room (if greater than 16 entries) take the top say 10 out of 20 drivers of Soft and Medium users in room A, then the next 10 in room B.

Example: drivers 1-5 use softs and qualify 2:01-2:02 . Drivers 6-10 use softs and qualify 2:02.1-2:03. Drivers 11-15 qualify on mediums and set times of @2:02.5-2:03.5. Drivers 16-20 qualify on mediums and set times of 2:03.6-@2:04.5. So take the top 5 soft drivers and the top 5 medium drivers and put them in one room, then the bottom 5 soft drivers and bottom 5 medium drivers and put them in the other room.

joetruckv8 · Jan 8, 2013

freshseth83
I think running two compounds with mandatory usage of both would be great. Might spice up qualifying. The thing you could do is let the drivers decide what they want to start with. Mediums or Softs. Instead of the top times being in one room (if greater than 16 entries) take the top say 10 out of 20 drivers of Soft and Medium users in room A, then the next 10 in room B.

Example: drivers 1-5 use softs and qualify 2:01-2:02 . Drivers 6-10 use softs and qualify 2:02.1-2:03. Drivers 11-15 qualify on mediums and set times of @2:02.5-2:03.5. Drivers 16-20 qualify on mediums and set times of 2:03.6-@2:04.5. So take the top 5 soft drivers and the top 5 medium drivers and put them in one room, then the bottom 5 soft drivers and bottom 5 medium drivers and put them in the other room.

If we run a non mandatory tire choice 1 driver could go for a 1 stopper on meds while another driver could go for a 2 stopper on softs, and I thought that would spice things up a bit, thoughts?

The rest of your statement I get and would totally be open for that scenario. What ever you qualify on you race on! 👍

freshseth83 · Jan 8, 2013

Well, if the races are long enough the cars will have to pit more than once. And if they don't have to then you can still switch the tires up. Mediums are about a second slower than Softs. So there's still enough strategy. Like my 90s LM series. If you choose mediums to qualify on, you get rid of one 'stint' of Mediums that guys who started on Softs still have to use. So while they're faster in the beginning, you're faster in the end.

ZachAK47 · Jan 8, 2013

1. Race Distance: I'd be up for longer races where refuelling is needed. Not much longer however as otherwise it'll be very late for me at race end. So for example 1 and 1/4 tank of fuel races.
2. Tire Compounds: I'd actually say meds and hards. Hards can bring people back into it if they stay out long enough. Say they get shunted off, can pit refuel put hards on and stay out for remainder of race
3. Tire 2 Compound Choice: Mandatory to use both, if 2 tyre compounds used.
4. Car Density (How Many Cars Per Chassis) 4 per chassis, lol stops the sea of Lexus'
5. Pre Season Races: 2 races
6. 1 Round |vs| 2 Rounds With Rev Grid: I personally cant race Sunday's. So I want just 1 round per weekend.
7. Pit Strategy: see points 1 and 2. Races with 1 1/4 fuels worth of distance, forcing a 2 stopper on normal tyre wear.

freshseth83 · Jan 8, 2013

Hard tires last too long. IRL the tires these cars run don't last for much longer than 15-20 laps. Were doing that now on Mediums. If you want pit stops to play a key into strategy, then use tires that fall off faster than the ones we have now.

joetruckv8 · Jan 8, 2013

ZachAK47
1. Race Distance: I'd be up for longer races where refuelling is needed. Not much longer however as otherwise it'll be very late for me at race end. So for example 1 and 1/4 tank of fuel races.
2. Tire Compounds: I'd actually say meds and hards. Hards can bring people back into it if they stay out long enough. Say they get shunted off, can pit refuel put hards on and stay out for remainder of race
3. Tire 2 Compound Choice: Mandatory to use both, if 2 tyre compounds used.
4. Car Density (How Many Cars Per Chassis) 4 per chassis, lol stops the sea of Lexus'
5. Pre Season Races: 2 races
6. 1 Round |vs| 2 Rounds With Rev Grid: I personally cant race Sunday's. So I want just 1 round per weekend.
7. Pit Strategy: see points 1 and 2. Races with 1 1/4 fuels worth of distance, forcing a 2 stopper on normal tyre wear.

1. It takes 220km to burn thru a tank of gas s re fueling isn't an issue unless we run 300km races which at these speeds it would take a life time. Is best you just vote for the 220km race.

2. Hards could last 175km possibly, so imo there out because we want more pitting. I would only put them in if we could not get a 2 stop strategy out of the softs @ 220km. If we do race 220km then they'll probably have to run Hards.

3. 👍
4. 👍
5. 👍
6. 👍
7. 👍

I'm going to send a link out to the other stewarts tonight'

ZachAK47 · Jan 9, 2013

joetruckv8
1. It takes 220km to burn thru a tank of gas s re fueling isn't an issue unless we run 300km races which at these speeds it would take a life time. Is best you just vote for the 220km race.

2. Hards could last 175km possibly, so imo there out because we want more pitting. I would only put them in if we could not get a 2 stop strategy out of the softs @ 220km. If we do race 220km then they'll probably have to run Hards.

3. 👍
4. 👍
5. 👍
6. 👍
7. 👍

I'm going to send a link out to the other stewarts tonight'

Id never seen how far distance wise it takes to get through fuel, yeah lol let's not go that long.

Hmm, I was thinking hards, because then the slower guys at the back of the grid, can pit early, put on the hards and chug it out, with the hope that then they come back into it.

But I see why softs. ATM the mediums can do half a race, so softs would do less correct? Less than half plus half, does not equal full race so 2 stops would be needed. So yeah, I'll go with softs and mediums as the tyre compounds. Make it clear that you cannot mix tyre sets though...

Just spitballing an idea, but how we get the same winners each week, could we kind of "encourage" the winner to post his setup, just to give other guys a chance next time round? Obviously we can't force them to give away the setup, but it'll bring the pack closer together and give new guys who haven't done much online racing before and much more shallow learning curve.

I personally know it takes about half a season to get a comfortable setup in a car your unfamiliar in...

freshseth83 · Jan 9, 2013

Success ballast works good, just when people finish lower than top 3 they should lose a little less weight than now. So I think 1st; 40kg. 2nd; 30kg. 3rd; 20kg. 4th; 10kg. 5th; 0kg. 6th; -5kg. 7th; -10kg. 8th; -15kg etc. I think incentives for lower placed guys to give them weight breaks off their cars minimum weight as well. So not always the same guys in "room B".

ZachAK47 · Jan 9, 2013

freshseth83
Success ballast works good, just when people finish lower than top 3 they should lose a little less weight than now. So I think 1st; 40kg. 2nd; 30kg. 3rd; 20kg. 4th; 10kg. 5th; 0kg. 6th; -5kg. 7th; -10kg. 8th; -15kg etc. I think incentives for lower placed guys to give them weight breaks off their cars minimum weight as well. So not always the same guys in "room B".

Trouble is the regulations only go down in steps of 10... So not sure how we would monitor 5kg?

I agree with reducing minimum weight for room B guys, but there should be some restrictions on it. I was in room B in 3 of the first 4 races this season, and I'm currently second in championship...
It should be in room B on two consecutive weeks, with a lower than top half finish, give you a 10kg weight loss.
That way the guys who just missed out, or missed out because of a mistake and not raw pace don't benefit...

freshseth83 · Jan 9, 2013

Trust is all you need. Anything 15th or lower should get weight taken off regardless IMO.

BAZZER · Jan 9, 2013

Some good ideas going around, Id like to see the qualifying going to a 20 minute showdown before the race if there is less than 16 racers.

Also for the fuel, have you thought about setting fuel and tire wear to high? It could make strategies interesting during the race.

joetruckv8 · Jan 9, 2013

Once the vote comes in on race distance then we can choose tire wear rate, but for now at 175km we would have to have normal wear setting. Fellas plz keep posting your thoughts so come Feb 1st I can start running laps and make sure there are not any conflicts with the settings.

My 1st priority is to induce a 2nd stop unless you guys like the 1 stop strategy? can guys tell me if you like the 1 stop strategy or if we should definitely go for a 2 stop strategy, and then we can work from there on rate settings.

So far 2 of us agree on race distance (200km), and 2 compound tire choice with 1 of us (me) voting for the non mandatory use of both compounds. And before you ask I like the non mandatory tire choice because there will be times where a driver will try to go for a 1 stop med tire strategy, vs drivers going for 2 stopper on softs, but this is only 1 scenario and I'm not a dictator so popular demand wins in my book' 👍

SkengD · Jan 9, 2013

Race distance should be increased just a little bit to give us that 2nd pit stop .

The soft and med could work but it would have to be mandatory use of 1 each .

Good ideas , its going to be good .

TylerJDallas · Jan 9, 2013

I like the longer distance. 2 stopper normal wear. Soft and meds... No mandate on usage. Could this give the option for some drivers to push for 1 stopper vs 2... Might add an interesting element.

Also, I like the idea of 2-3 driver teams and a limit of each chassis for the entire field.

Races completed/dnf/dns stats on the points board too.

I'll elaborate more tomorrow. Sleepy iPhone posting.

When/how do we decide on tracks?

joetruckv8 · Jan 9, 2013

Good point Tyler I'll list all the eliglable tracks and we will pick 8 for the season and 2 pre season tracks! I would mind a pre season track being someone created also, just an idea'

phil bell · Jan 9, 2013

I know this is gonna sound childish, but MORE POWER would be nice.

TylerJDallas · Jan 9, 2013

phil bell
I know this is gonna sound childish, but MORE POWER would be nice.

Clarkson?

Bahundanda · Jan 9, 2013

I like the idea of building teams.
2 stops.
20min. quali before race.
Tires soft+med.
If possible start race a bit earlier.

BOB0011 · Jan 9, 2013

First of all I want to express my appreciation for the race administrators and their hard work and dedication to running this series. It is time consuming to operate something like this and your efforts have created a great experience for the participants.
Lowering weight for slower cars (which I fully qualify to understand) would not work for the Lexus. It weighs in at 1050kg. It may be better to provide increases in HP. I find the current race length about right but would welcome the variables that come with increased tire wear and the need to have a pit strategy. The current tire compound provides lots of grip so I don’t see the need to go to soft tires. Increasing the tire wear should do the trick although it needs to be tested to ensure that the results are consistent with the desired objective and does not create another set of issues. With faster tire wear it may be better to go with soft tires rather than medium and have the performance deteriorate faster.
The current qualifying process is a little bit of a pain but may be a necessary evil if we continue to have larger fields. It would probably be very difficult for everyone to get a clean lap if we try to qualify more than about 10 cars on a tight track and I am not sure if allowing late qualifiers the chance to bump early qualifiers would be totally fair.
Restricting the number of specific models that could be raced is a good idea providing that the cars are truly equal in performance. The current results indicate that a couple of models have not been competitive enough to challenge the better cars even after the performance weight penalties. It does become a little subjective because fast drivers are fast and slow drivers tend to be slow and although it is difficult to establish perfect parity we do have examples from other GT300 series and some good testing form Wardez that could be reviewed. In theory the weight penalties should then be sufficient to equalize the field and all the cars would be capable of winning.
One issue that from my perspective deserves review is the starting process. In a rolling start the field at a minimum should know prior to the race at what point on the track the leader is going to hit the gas. It should not be arbitrary or at the discretion of the leader to decide. Back markers who can’t see the leader are often caught in the middle of a curve making sure that they keep up and don’t crash the car in front and don’t get an equal chance to start on time. It is not unusual to be 20 seconds behind at the start of the race with no chance of ever catching up. If we had spotters telling us the field was green or even some lights then the current system would be easier to implement. It could be rationalized the potential for an uneven start is the penalty for not qualifying faster but slower qualifiers have enough issues without additional penalties. I am in favor of either starting the race once the leader crosser the start finish line or having a F1 style grid starts. Either system makes the start fairer for the entire field.

TylerJDallas · Jan 9, 2013

I also don't like the rolling start much. I'd like to do a grid start if possible. I'm not sure how the game works but if we do a free run quali won't it place us on the grid in the order of lap times once the race is started?

SkengD · Jan 9, 2013

Yeh i also prefer grid start but rolling starts are safer .

Grid start does mix things up a bit which is great .

ZachAK47 · Jan 9, 2013

In response to bob:

Increasing HP would also give a sufficient boost, we can look into that, and able give the driver the choice or losing weight or having more power?

The rolling start I haven't been a fan of as mid pack you often think the race has started as the car infront pulls away, only to find out they were just closing the gap at Madrid I started with a damaged right front I believe
A system that works is to have a full pace lap, where the leader then goes at the start finish line. As soon as the leader crosses the start line everyone is green flagged to begin racing, but cannot overtake until they themselves have cross the start finish line.
I'm reluctant to have grid starts, as the lighter cars and cars with more torque will storm away, regardless of the drivers actual pace..

With the tyres. I find the exaggerated tyre/fuel system too much, and while yes the softs are overkill (why I said hards) it's the only way to force two stoppers..

The current qualifying system is good, as if you know you will be cutting it close race day it doesn't matter as you've already qualified. Also having a qualifying session before hand requires people's connections to be stable for longer, and will encourage more teamwork with drafts being given on any available straight. The Celica in the draft for example, has nothing on the RX7 in the draft, so the already largish speed difference is magnified further

TylerJDallas · Jan 9, 2013

ZachAK47
In response to bob:

Increasing HP would also give a sufficient boost, we can look into that, and able give the driver the choice or losing weight or having more power?

The rolling start I haven't been a fan of as mid pack you often think the race has started as the car infront pulls away, only to find out they were just closing the gap at Madrid I started with a damaged right front I believe
A system that works is to have a full pace lap, where the leader then goes at the start finish line. As soon as the leader crosses the start line everyone is green flagged to begin racing, but cannot overtake until they themselves have cross the start finish line.
I'm reluctant to have grid starts, as the lighter cars and cars with more torque will storm away, regardless of the drivers actual pace..

With the tyres. I find the exaggerated tyre/fuel system too much, and while yes the softs are overkill (why I said hards) it's the only way to force two stoppers..

The current qualifying system is good, as if you know you will be cutting it close race day it doesn't matter as you've already qualified. Also having a qualifying session before hand requires people's connections to be stable for longer, and will encourage more teamwork with drafts being given on any available straight. The Celica in the draft for example, has nothing on the RX7 in the draft, so the already largish speed difference is magnified further

I like your idea of having a power or weight choice. Adds more engineering aspect to the cars, drivers and teams.

As for the grid start and the issue of car dynamics also adds an engineering aspect. Do you tune for a good start or hope your pace brings the quick starters back into a draft. I'm also ok with the full pace lap though. I have the same problem with pole position determining when to jump. Mid pack there's always a lot of bumping going on because we can't tell when the leader breaks.

Quali - I'll leave that up to you guys. Personally I've had issues with the 20 min quali in another series.

alefin · Jan 9, 2013

It's easiest to just let the game put people in qualifying position if we're doing grid starts and a pre-race qualifying session.

Problem is that it doesn't always get the right order, especially if someone can't see someone else on the grid, or if people exit/enter the track again.

I've done this kind of pre-race qualifying session before for too many races to count, and it's been more of a headache than anything else lol.

Everything else I've read regarding car specs, track length etc, I leave it up to you guys lol, but if you want qualifying to mean something, we're going to have to keep doing a manual line up.

Or just show up and let the game put you somewhere, that's fine by me too lol.

PS - If you disable collisions it eliminates the problem of having too many people on the field during qualifying. They'll show up as ghosts and it's also the only way to get rid of slipstream during qualifying.

freshseth83 · Jan 9, 2013

I prefer a rolling start. That way the order is correct. GT5 doesn't always start people in the right order.

ZachAK47 · Jan 9, 2013

alefin
It's easiest to just let the game put people in qualifying position if we're doing grid starts and a pre-race qualifying session.

Problem is that it doesn't always get the right order, especially if someone can't see someone else on the grid, or if people exit/enter the track again.

I've done this kind of pre-race qualifying session before for too many races to count, and it's been more of a headache than anything else lol.

Everything else I've read regarding car specs, track length etc, I leave it up to you guys lol, but if you want qualifying to mean something, we're going to have to keep doing a manual line up.

Or just show up and let the game put you somewhere, that's fine by me too lol.

PS - If you disable collisions it eliminates the problem of having too many people on the field during qualifying. They'll show up as ghosts and it's also the only way to get rid of slipstream during qualifying.

But then when you reset lobby to turn collisions on, the grid resets

alefin · Jan 9, 2013

That's right lol

freshseth83 · Jan 10, 2013

This is my idea for qualifying; Set a room up with a free run with a set amount of time. Say let Multiple cars enter after checking their regulations. They have that amount of time to set their fastest lap. If you want low fuel qualifying runs, you could set the tire wear/fuel consumption to HIGH and that way the tires and fuel burn faster to simulate a car getting faster as the fuel burns. With that in mind the qualifier could just pit as often as they want for new tires on their low fuel to get that ultimate time. Plus in free run the split times are shown to give you an idea of where you stand compared to your competition. All this could be tracked by someone watching the laps. Or by honesty if you can't watch the live timing since you are qualifying.

joetruckv8 · Jan 10, 2013

After reading everyone's post there will be a new poll put in place for the soft/med vs the med/hard.

My thoughts on this:
I'm against hard for softs because of better over-taking which I've been taking out before on meds so hards is just going to be worse imo. All I got to say is 1 word "dive bombers!" If they cant stop there cars on meds then it will be even more trouble some for them to control there cars on hards, imo. Phil mentioned something about speeding the cars up via hp, but we cant do that because we're pretty much maxed out so softs would make the cars accel and brake quicker hence making them faster.

Also there will be another poll for Grid start vs Rolling start.

My thoughts on this:
If the poll comes back in favor for the standing start then well set the room to 1 lap with a rev grid setting applied. Will line up in rev grid of our qualifying order and finish a 1 lapper, and right after afterwards everyone re joins then we start the race, and there will be no way for GT5 to screw up our order.

If the poll comes back in favor for the rolling start, then we will do a full pace lap so everyone has a good indication when about the leaders are going to take off. I've been in the mid-pack mayhem when gassing and stopping causing collisions because I cant tell when the leaders are storming off into the sunset.

Seth, I cant really address your ideas until we resolve the starting procedure and the qualifying procedure (which we wont know the Q session until we get the sign up sheet for season 2).

JSTC GT400 (GT300) Season 2 - Winter Test Session 2/9/13 4pm Pst

Race Distance (km)

175km

200km

220km

joetruckv8

freshseth83

joetruckv8

freshseth83

ZachAK47

freshseth83

joetruckv8

ZachAK47

freshseth83

ZachAK47

freshseth83

BAZZER

joetruckv8

SkengD

TylerJDallas

joetruckv8

phil bell

TylerJDallas

Bahundanda

BOB0011

TylerJDallas

SkengD

ZachAK47

TylerJDallas

alefin

freshseth83

ZachAK47

alefin

freshseth83

joetruckv8

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