Hybrids vs. Standards...down but not out!!

Johnnypenso · Mar 25, 2013

Hybrids!!!!. :banghead:

🤬

The mere mention of the word alone can stir the emotions of GT5 fans worldwide, creating everything from joyous rapture to uncontrolled rage, and just about everything in between. For the time being, they are here to stay, and my thinking is to make the best of it by creating a place to race them under the [post=3176790] GTP OLR Rules & Guidelines[/post], and share your track based creations with the world, if you so choose. We'd use a Lounge for this so if you don't race clean, your membership would be terminated permanently.

No need to go into the dirty details at this point, but I'd love to see some informal but organized racing to see what the true potential of the Hybrids are vs. their "Normal or Standard" tuned cars, likely in the 450, 500, 550 and 600 PP ranges, on SH, SM, SS and RH tires respectively. This mimics the Nurb PP Board in the Tuning Forum and provides enough grip to make the cars handle well, but not so much grip they're on rails. I'd like these questions answered and you might too.

Is there an on track advantage to hybrids?
Want to build a regularly tuned car and trounce a field of hybrids?
Want to build a world beater hybrid and beat the crap out of GT5's best tuned, pre-hybrid cars?
Just want a place to race your realistic hybrids against all comers?

Keep in mind we aren't talking about 3500 hp/550pp cars and the like, just cars that are "realistic" and we will police it as best we can with PP and HP based limits. Is anyone interested in seeing this? Are you a hybrider and would you like to design cars for racing and sign up some drivers? Would you like to take a shot at tuning and driving a hybrid? Are you a dedicated GT5'er and want nothing to do with hybrids and want to prove your standard GT5 tunes can smoke any hybrid?

Let me know if you're interested. With enough interest I'll throw something well organized together that could be an ongoing thing if interest continues. Check the DeadNuts thread below for an idea of what we might do with this in terms of spit and polish.

Post below if interested!!

Hei · Mar 25, 2013

What are the pp/hp/weight restrictions?

Johnnypenso · Mar 25, 2013

Hei
What are the pp/hp/weight restrictions?

Good question. It's something we have to work out. To me the most popular, competitive, clean and realistic PP levels are 450, 500 and 550. Depending on how much interest there is we could do one or all three or even add 600PP. To get clean racing at 600 PP you need some skilled drivers and I'm more interested in clean than fast, but if demand is there, we'll do it.

The purpose of this would be to see just what designers, tuners and drivers can do within reasonable limits. Yes you can add 3500 HP to a car and PP goes down and you can fit it in to 550PP but that's not what we're looking for. HP limits we'll have to work on but off the top of my head, my best track creations for for 450 PP for example were maybe 1300 Kgs and 290 HP. So if we made a limit of say, and I'm just spitballing here, 350 HP for 450 PP it'll keep out the crazy cars but allow lots of leeway to be creative. If it turns out you can routinely squeeze 375 HP into 450 PP ( I actually think you'll be hard pressed to top 300 without it being too fat) then we'll adjust it as necessary.

We're breaking virgin ground here, we can be flexible, we just want to keep out the crazy cars and focus on the "realistic ones". Downforce, chassis, motor, tranny, body, all up to you. I think we'd all like to find out what these "realistic" hybrids can do.

TorqueHappenS08 · Mar 25, 2013

Omg yes, i have made so many under 1000hp timeattack machines, with proper tunes, i would love something like this. Hope it takes off. my 800hp XS enginereing replica WRX sedan needs some serious competition, also i only run sports softs.

X R 8 · Mar 25, 2013

I would love to help you along with this, designing the cars to match your restrictions.

But alas the GrandParents are coming this week and won't have any time for the old PS3.

Sorry mate.

But good luck though.

Ridox2JZGTE · Mar 25, 2013

I can do some car for 450PP and 500PP, in fact I just got Lotus Exige S replica built out of Elise 111R, it has 500PP

Davis · Mar 25, 2013

Ridox2JZGTE
I can do some car for 450PP and 500PP, in fact I just got Lotus Exige S replica built out of Elise 111R, it has 500PP

Yup, I'm racing that. And my TT NSX, and all sorts of fun things!!

gtsmashbros · Mar 25, 2013

Corvette engined Caterham. Even added ballast to simulate engine weight. 380hp - 501 kg. I'm in.

Exorcet · Mar 25, 2013

Johnnypenso
The purpose of this would be to see just what designers, tuners and drivers can do within reasonable limits. Yes you can add 3500 HP to a car and PP goes down and you can fit it in to 550PP but that's not what we're looking for. HP limits we'll have to work on but off the top of my head, my best track creations for for 450 PP for example were maybe 1300 Kgs and 290 HP. So if we made a limit of say, and I'm just spitballing here, 350 HP for 450 PP it'll keep out the crazy cars but allow lots of leeway to be creative. If it turns out you can routinely squeeze 375 HP into 450 PP ( I actually think you'll be hard pressed to top 300 without it being too fat) then we'll adjust it as necessary.

If this is about car set up/design/etc then loose limits are probably best. I'd just worry a little about mod cars and downforce on some tracks. Maybe if they're a bit too fast, throw in rewards weight.

I'm a little torn over entering. I'm out of practice (and physics updates) with GT, but I'm not having luck with leagues on Forza. I'll keep an eye on this.

And if we do ~600 PP, I'd be curious to see a realistic Viper ACR (my best guess would be 30/40 or maybe 35/50 downforce).

esoxhntr · Mar 25, 2013

if the track is the nurburgring, chances are zero downforce will dominate.

i may be in for the 450 and 500pp classes if we're racing the 'ring and as time allows.

edit: prediction time, the usual suspects (non-hybrid) at a given pp will still be at or near the top (ie. gsx-r, hsc, type r at 500). reason being, their chassis / engine combinations are (inadvertently) optimized to take most advantage of the pp system as it stands now. however, we will see other cars close the gap to those top ones.

Johnnypenso · Mar 25, 2013

X R 8
I would love to help you along with this, designing the cars to match your restrictions.
But alas the GrandParents are coming this week and won't have any time for the old PS3.
Sorry mate.
But good luck though.

This could end up being an ongoing event, don't count yourself out yet...lol. :sly:

Ridox2JZGTE
I can do some car for 450PP and 500PP, in fact I just got Lotus Exige S replica built out of Elise 111R, it has 500PP

I'm actually giving some thought to a weight minimum in most races otherwise at all the short to medium tracks and Nurb, the Elise based cars will just dominate. They are already faster than anything else at 450-500 PP so we won't gain any knowledge running events where Elise based tunes just dominate the field. I would think we would run them sometimes, maybe have entire nights dedicated to them, I just wouldn't want this to become an Elisefest if you get my drift :sly:

I'd like to see a lot of variety.

esoxhntr
if the track is the nurburgring, chances are zero downforce will dominate.

i may be in for the 450 and 500pp classes if we're racing the 'ring and as time allows.

edit: prediction time, the usual suspects (non-hybrid) at a given pp will still be at or near the top (ie. gsx-r, hsc, type r at 500). reason being, their chassis / engine combinations are (inadvertently) optimized to take most advantage of the pp system as it stands now. however, we will see other cars close the gap to those top ones.

The Ring is possible, keep your eyes peeled.👍

Davis · Mar 25, 2013

I'd like to see you and Rido and some other "master" tuners tune up some normal cars, and maybe pit those against the hybrids. Could be interesting! JP's seasonal event tuned 'Vette is what I'm hitting at, or one of Rido's Vipers. Then it could be Tuned-Hybrided-Stock showdown. :lol:

Ridox2JZGTE · Mar 25, 2013

Ferraridude308
I'd like to see you and Rido and some other "master" tuners tune up some normal cars, and maybe pit those against the hybrids. Could be interesting! JP's seasonal event tuned 'Vette is what I'm hitting at, or one of Rido's Vipers. Then it could be Tuned-Hybrided-Stock showdown.

Haha, I'll bring my TwinTurbo Viper GTS .. hey Ferrari, I have that P330 in Blu Dino Met shared, also currently making TwinTurbo Maserati with black stock rims

Davis · Mar 25, 2013

Ridox2JZGTE
Haha, I'll bring my TwinTurbo Viper GTS .. hey Ferrari, I have that P330 in Blu Dino Met shared, also currently making TwinTurbo Maserati with black stock rims

I guess I'm doing some borrowing tonight!

It seems these TT cars never end. :lol:

Ridox2JZGTE · Mar 25, 2013

Ferraridude308
I guess I'm doing some borrowing tonight! It seems these TT cars never end.

You will love the Maserati, she pack 600+HP with only turbo added at 540PP -GTR contender now :sly:

, and the black stock rims on a sexy red paint

Also that Ferrari P330 also slammed

Johnnypenso · Mar 25, 2013

Tonight after DeadNuts, I'm going to set up an Open Lobby, likely entitled 500-550 PP Hybrid/Stndrd or whatever I can fit in and hang out for a while and see what happens. It'll be 500 on SM's and 550 on SS tires. Realistic hybrids only. I will boot anyone that shows up with something ridiculous with one warning only. Circuit racing, track votes, silly choices like Random or Autumn Ring Mini overruled.

Around 9:30-9:45 most likely. I'll post the link here when it's up. Hope to see one or two of you there!!!!

DiersZee1 · Mar 25, 2013

Johnnypenso
Tonight after DeadNuts, I'm going to set up an Open Lobby, likely entitled 500-550 PP Hybrid/Stndrd or whatever I can fit in and hang out for a while and see what happens. It'll be 500 on SM's and 550 on SS tires. Realistic hybrids only. I will boot anyone that shows up with something ridiculous with one warning only. Circuit racing, track votes, silly choices like Random or Autumn Ring Mini overruled.

Around 9:30-9:45 most likely. I'll post the link here when it's up. Hope to see one or two of you there!!!!

Been meaning to PM you about it but not sure I would be able to keep up based on time trial results that you get. Oddly I can sometimes win against JKT008 who is near your ranking, but we both do our best to race each other cleanly.... Most of the times 0.0xx behind at the finish line :ouch:

Would the test not be best to have equal drivers? Or even doing a time trial by the same driver?

Not sure if you are trying to see which would quicker in the end? That is the thing that I am trying to find....end result.

Main issue is that if you stick a guy in a hybrid that cant race or drive, the point is mute. But, the same goes with sticking him in a non hacked car.

Johnnypenso · Mar 25, 2013

DiersZee1
Been meaning to PM you about it but not sure I would be able to keep up based on time trial results that you get. Oddly I can sometimes win against JKT008 who is near your ranking, but we both do our best to race each other cleanly.... Most of the times 0.0xx behind at the finish line

Would the test not be best to have equal drivers? Or even doing a time trial by the same driver?

Not sure if you are trying to see which would quicker in the end? That is the thing that I am trying to find....end result.

Main issue is that if you stick a guy in a hybrid that cant race or drive, the point is mute. But, the same goes with sticking him in a non hacked car.

Let me clarify. I really have to choose my words more carefully...lol. I'm guessing PD isn't going to do anything about hybrids in GT5, so I imagine they are going to be an ongoing thing for at least this year. I'm not really trying to find out which is faster than the other, that's just sort of the marketing come-on to get people to join.

The ultimate goal is just to get people to come out and race on a regular basis, in a Private Lounge preferably, for safe, clean racing with or without hybrids. Weed out the overpowered silly cars and get down to those that fit normal PP regs. If we get enough guys to race, there will be people of all talent levels and someone to race with for everyone. Get even more guys and you can split into A, B, C etc. divisions for even closer racing. Because it's not an organized league, more like organized sprint racing, you can come and go as you please, show up or not, drop in for an hour or more or less, whatever works for you. Share your tunes, your builds, whatever.

If hybriding is here to stay we might as well make the best of it and start racing them to see what we can come up with and how far we can go with them on the track. Some really creative and successful cars can be made that I'm sure will be faster than standard cars, but not so fast that a really good driver won't be able to keep up with an above average driver in a really good hybrid.

In short, although at first it'll be spotty races here and there, open lobbies here or there, I'm hoping it'll grow into a regular thing, a place to bring and race realistic hybrids without having to secretly invade open lobbies. Let's keep the hybrids out of lobby's expecting only standard tuned cars and confine them to here or other open lobbies specifically for hybrids. It's a benefit to the whole community..everyone wins!!!

Don't worry about keeping up. I'm just as excited as driving a stock chassis 69' Vette with a proper 380 HP V8 at 500PP as I am driving a fully modded 550PP NSX. Some guys will be here just to win but hopefully others just want a place to drive their creations, just because they're cool, sound cool and look cool.

DiersZee1 · Mar 25, 2013

No, I agree with you 100%. Crying or Debating only goes so far and evolution requires acceptable agreements from both sides.

👍 Will check back after running Time Killer Private Lobby today....

May just peep in as my backs killing me after finishing the A-spec 24h of Green Hell yesterday. If running a private lobby, you will need plenty of FR space though :ouch:

*EDIT By chance what type of rubber do you all run?

Johnnypenso · Mar 25, 2013

DiersZee1
No, I agree with you 100%. Crying or Debating only goes so far and evolution requires acceptable agreements from both sides.

👍 Will check back after running Time Killer Private Lobby today....

May just peep in as my backs killing me after finishing the A-spec 24h of Green Hell yesterday. If running a private lobby, you will need plenty of FR space though

*EDIT By chance what type of rubber do you all run?

No need to go into the dirty details at this point, but I'd love to see some informal but organized racing to see what the true potential of the Hybrids are vs. their "Normal or Standard" tuned cars, likely in the 450, 500, 550 and 600 PP ranges, on SH, SM, SS and RH tires respectively. This mimics the Nurb PP Board in the Tuning Forum and provides enough grip to make the cars handle well, but not so much grip they're on rails. I'd like these questions answered and you might too.

DiersZee1 · Mar 26, 2013

10 4...

Not much online experience other than the weekly series with various Tyres, PP Level and Stock/Tuned.

Example from my view:
370Z GTA with only Suspension, Trans, LSD Tuned (no weight loss), find that PP524 @ 393HP is on rails with Sports Soft. I could bump it to PP550 and it shoudl require more foot work or add weight to get to PP500.

Focus ST with lots of goodies at PP500, I personally feel Sports Soft will make the driver think more as it would light up the tyres easily on lower gears.

All depends on the weapon or poison of choice and what PP Level. I personally enjoy the lower levels and dont mind from the Comfort Softs to Racing Softs. Would love PP450 for my Ford Ka :lol:

Up to you to be honest. Could do it as a trial and error basis. But, the higher the grip, the more you would attract, but the lessor the grip the more difficult and experianced drivers will show up?

Johnnypenso · Mar 26, 2013

Room up for realistic hybrids 500 on SM's and 550 SS.

1472-6399-9009-5381-7833

TakumiFuji01 · Mar 26, 2013

I'm interested. I got my Amemiya FD 3 Rotor Attack Special and Spoon Civic Type R Hybrids based on real counterparts.

Ridox2JZGTE · Mar 26, 2013

Kept getting network error on PSN

will keep trying ... might be modem having issues :grumpy:

DiersZee1 · Mar 26, 2013

Johnnypenso
Room up for realistic hybrids 500 on SM's and 550 SS.

Thanks for hosting the room tonight.

Now at the Nurbugring GP you were in the Modded car?

Believe at Autumn Ring you were in a regular car? Seemed like the 370Z GTA was decent enough with SM at PP500. Sorry for the tail getting all happy prior to the last lap.

If at the GP track you were at PP500 and all of us were near PP550...then in the hands of a good driver like you, there is no match at all :eek:

.

Servers were a bit weird tonight. GP track some guy kept hitting him till he beached it and had some issues at Tskuba...with possible lag from other party? Thought it had nothing to do with me throwing myself in the beach = :dunce:

SAPPH · Mar 26, 2013

Oh shoot, i'm at work here, still morning. Respect to you johnnypenso for agreeing with the evolution of hybriding. I'm myself love to make realistic hybrid. I think I have an S2000 with amuse and spoon parts here and there with 300HP. Will join the room when I had the time to run from work for awhile.

fewzo · Mar 26, 2013

do you guys mean "hacked", not hybrid?

Davis · Mar 26, 2013

fewzo
do you guys mean "hacked", not hybrid?

Hacked Hybrids. Hybrids as in they have different engines and drivetrains, but they are indeed hacked.

Jahgee · Mar 26, 2013

I could easily make someone a car for this if they wanted to race a hacked car but didn't know how.

Johnnypenso · Mar 26, 2013

DiersZee1
Thanks for hosting the room tonight.

Now at the Nurbugring GP you were in the Modded car?

Believe at Autumn Ring you were in a regular car? Seemed like the 370Z GTA was decent enough with SM at PP500. Sorry for the tail getting all happy prior to the last lap.

If at the GP track you were at PP500 and all of us were near PP550...then in the hands of a good driver like you, there is no match at all .

Servers were a bit weird tonight. GP track some guy kept hitting him till he beached it and had some issues at Tskuba...with possible lag from other party? Thought it had nothing to do with me throwing myself in the beach =

No problem, thanks for coming out.👍👍 At GP/D I was in an Ruf CTR2 with an RGT Chassis, everything else was the same. CTR2 understeers like a tank, RGT doesn't, it's a great match. I was at 550PP. Around 480HP and 1300+kgs, typical stats.

Autumn Ring was just a stock 69 Corvette with the Isuzu V8 motor dropped into it and a six speed. 1300+ kgs and 390 HP, typical 500PP stats. Sounds awesome though.

I'm not into anything wacky, mostly taking good chassis that have been stuck with crappy sounding motors, or taking good chassis and dropping skins on to them that are stuck on lousy chassis, like the CTR2. The Camaro I ran in the first race again, is just a stock Camaro but with a C8 Laviolette motor in it, the way a V8 should sound!!!! 500+ HP, 1300+ kgs, again, typical 550PP stats for my other cars.

It was laggy all night. We ran Deadnuts from 8-9:30 and it was the same, slightly better, but still almost everyone had little issues. That's on Sony's end, nothing we can do about it. :yuck:

I only have one other car at this point, an NSX for 550PP that I'm not sure what was done to it, but it's fast, then again all NSX's are fast aren't they?...lol. I'm working on getting something for the 71 Mustang and any other muscle or vintage car I can find, but they are hard to match due to their size.

I think as long as we keep the PP down to reasonable levels we can avoid a lot of the silliness and also the point where downforce becomes so important it's best to have any kind of car transplanted onto a race car. Hard to beat a GT500 car at 600PP for example, so dropping a street NSX skin onto a GT500 is simple and fast, but not much fun for me. I'm more interested in seeing what people can come up with mixing and matching parts without downforce being much of an issue.

SAPPH
Oh shoot, i'm at work here, still morning. Respect to you johnnypenso for agreeing with the evolution of hybriding. I'm myself love to make realistic hybrid. I think I have an S2000 with amuse and spoon parts here and there with 300HP. Will join the room when I had the time to run from work for awhile.

Thanks Sapph. I still think that in the long run this will be bad for GT6 and can jeopardize the future of the entire series if they don't fix it for the next go 'round...lol. But I'm also a realist, it's here now, instead of fighting it, might as well embrace it and use it for something legitimate and have some fun with it. And I have to admit, last night for 5 laps screaming down the front straight in the Camaro SS with a proper, roaring V8 shaking the floor and my windows in the house, had me smiling the whole time!!!! If PD patches it and we can't go online with them ever again but still can make them, I may not return to the online portion of the game...lol.

Hybrids vs. Standards...down but not out!!

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