Appropriate N-Tires for Different Types of Cars to Simulate Real Life Control?
- Thread starter DuckRacer
- 124 comments
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- Toronto, Ontario, Canada
- MastrGT
Some specially manufactured cars, such as the Clio MRs, came with special factory supplied F1-quality tires. Equiping the equivalent game car with less quality tires, such as Ns, would not be a good idea, if you're looking for realism.
The same goes for the GNX, which I seem to remember came with very good & wide, factory supplied tires.
While challenging to use, I can't imagine that N-series tires represent real tires.
Maybe that's why they give them away... after all, GT is just a game.
Cheers,
MasterGT
The same goes for the GNX, which I seem to remember came with very good & wide, factory supplied tires.
While challenging to use, I can't imagine that N-series tires represent real tires.
Maybe that's why they give them away... after all, GT is just a game.
Cheers,
MasterGT
Duck7892
In my opinion I think the "Real Life equivilents" are generally as such:
N1 - Economy tires: All Season 50k mile tires (e.g. - Goodyear bargain tires
from Sears)
N2 - High performance "Radial": All-Season/Summer (e.g. - Dunlop SP5000,
Firestone Firehawks, etc)
N3 - Ultra/Max performance Summer "Radial": Summer only (e.g. - Toyo T1-S, Bridgestone S-03, Michelin Pilot Sports)
S1-S3 - Various compounds of Autocross/Club racer track tires: These tires, based on the descriptions from GT4's tire area, need heat to become effective (e.g. - Kumho Victoracer V700, Hoosier "R" compounds, and the tires that look suprisingly similar to the S tires from the game:
Yokohama A032:
The ADVAN A032R is Yokohama's DOT-legal competition tire that was developed for drivers who participate in autocross competition, as well as track schools, lapping days and racing events.
Many sizes of the ADVAN A032R are available with both S (soft) and H (hard) high-grip tread compounds. This is intended to allow the driver to match the tread compound's capabilities to the weight and horsepower of their vehicle, as well as to the track and weather conditions in which they will be running. Heavy vehicles, high horsepower, demanding tracks and warm ambient temperatures will probably require the use of H compound tires while light vehicles, low horsepower, less stressful tracks and cooler ambient temperatures may allow the use of the S compound tires.
I think that people reporting "too much stick" and "too much control" are basing performance on the "S" tires, which are actually "track" compounds, that provide much more grip than your best "street" tires. The M3 will more than likely come from the dealer with N3s.
- 35
A thread here a while ago had thorough research and found out that N2's were the most realistic tyre in that they most accurately reproduced real road car's lap times. So they would most probably be the ones supplied from the 'dealer', and are ones you should use if you want to have the most realistic drive. I'd use N3's on supercars, but not S tyres, for this reason: The S class are based on semi-slicks, as colnago stated above, and have quite different characteristics. I wouldn't use them unless you wanted to take your car to the track 'virtually.'
- 661
colnagoIn my opinion I think the "Real Life equivilents" are generally as such:
N1 - Economy tires: All Season 50k mile tires (e.g. - Goodyear bargain tires
from Sears)
N2 - High performance "Radial": All-Season/Summer (e.g. - Dunlop SP5000,
Firestone Firehawks, etc)
N3 - Ultra/Max performance Summer "Radial": Summer only (e.g. - Toyo T1-S, Bridgestone S-03, Michelin Pilot Sports)
S1-S3 - Various compounds of Autocross/Club racer track tires: These tires, based on the descriptions from GT4's tire area, need heat to become effective (e.g. - Kumho Victoracer V700, Hoosier "R" compounds, and the tires that look suprisingly similar to the S tires from the game:
Yokohama A032:
The ADVAN A032R is Yokohama's DOT-legal competition tire that was developed for drivers who participate in autocross competition, as well as track schools, lapping days and racing events.
Many sizes of the ADVAN A032R are available with both S (soft) and H (hard) high-grip tread compounds. This is intended to allow the driver to match the tread compound's capabilities to the weight and horsepower of their vehicle, as well as to the track and weather conditions in which they will be running. Heavy vehicles, high horsepower, demanding tracks and warm ambient temperatures will probably require the use of H compound tires while light vehicles, low horsepower, less stressful tracks and cooler ambient temperatures may allow the use of the S compound tires.
I think that people reporting "too much stick" and "too much control" are basing performance on the "S" tires, which are actually "track" compounds, that provide much more grip than your best "street" tires. The M3 will more than likely come from the dealer with N3s.
I agree with this post....you can look at the tread too....you will notice a difference in tread pattern....n3's being the most expensive tires.....n2's something from a showroom....n1.....tires from uniroyal...the detail between tires is noticable check it out!
- 35
What are you basing that on? The Hyundai would be most realistic with N1-N2 tyres, while the Saleen would be most realistic with N3 tyres. What am I basing that on? The Saleen, along with every other production road car, is given road tyres, which is what the N class are. The S class are based on semi-slicks. The only reason the Saleen handles better out of the box is because of the nature of the car and its suspension. Both the Hyundai and Saleen wear road tyres; the Saleen's are just stickier versions.
zoxxy...This car isn't:
Taken from http://www.saleen.com/saleen_s7_specs.htm
WHEELS AND TIRES
Saleen forged alloy wheels
Center locking wheel nuts with automatic safety locks:
Front: 19 in. x 9.5 in.
Rear: 20 in. x 12.0 in.
High-performance Pirelli Michelin Pilot Sport PS2
Front 275/30ZR19 Rear 345/30ZR20
Michelin's description of the Pilot Sport PS2:
The Pilot Sport PS2 is a Max Performance Summer tire member of the Michelin Pilot family of low profile, high speed tires. Initially developed for Original Equipment (O.E.) on some of the world's most prestigious sports cars and performance sedans, the Pilot Sport PS2 combines world-class dry road traction, handling and cornering. Some of the first Pilot Sport PS2 O.E. fitments included the BMW Alpina Z8, McLaren SLR and Porsche GT2 & GT3 models. The Pilot Sport PS2 is not intended to be driven in snow.
From a recent tire test from Tire Rack: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testResultsModel.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=Pilot+Sport+PS2
One of the most recent OE-derived Max Performance Summer tires to be expanded into a range of replacement sizes is the Bridgestone Potenza RE050A. Versions of this tire have been fitted to cars from BMW, Ferrari and Mercedes-Benz. To get an understanding of how this tire performs in the real world on vehicles driven everyday, we conducted a Real World Road Ride and Performance Track Drive comparing the Bridgestone Potenza RE050A with the Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3 and the Michelin Pilot Sport PS2.
They "classed" the Pilot Sports with Potenzas and GS-D3s, which are "max-performance street tires". Which in the game would "probably" translate into N3s.
The "next step up" would be a street/track tire, or in GT speak "S" class tires, while possible to drive on the street, it's not recommended due to tire degradation. GT4 repeatedly talks about getting heat into the "S" tires...that's generally not associated with street tires.
Fred.The.Baddie stated that he'd use N3's on Super cars...but my 20th Ann. GTI came with Pilot Sports also...so I'm sure any M class BMW could be "realistically" fitted with N3s to simulate "real world".
Perfect. I think you have it exactly right. Your post exactly matches my estimates from using different tires in RL and comparing to GT. 👍 👍 👍colnagoIn my opinion I think the "Real Life equivilents" are generally as such:
N1 - Economy tires: All Season 50k mile tires (e.g. - Goodyear bargain tires
from Sears)
N2 - High performance "Radial": All-Season/Summer (e.g. - Dunlop SP5000,
Firestone Firehawks, etc)
N3 - Ultra/Max performance Summer "Radial": Summer only (e.g. - Toyo T1-S, Bridgestone S-03, Michelin Pilot Sports)
S1-S3 - Various compounds of Autocross/Club racer track tires: These tires, based on the descriptions from GT4's tire area, need heat to become effective (e.g. - Kumho Victoracer V700, Hoosier "R" compounds, and the tires that look suprisingly similar to the S tires from the game:
Yokohama A032:
The ADVAN A032R is Yokohama's DOT-legal competition tire that was developed for drivers who participate in autocross competition, as well as track schools, lapping days and racing events.
Many sizes of the ADVAN A032R are available with both S (soft) and H (hard) high-grip tread compounds. This is intended to allow the driver to match the tread compound's capabilities to the weight and horsepower of their vehicle, as well as to the track and weather conditions in which they will be running. Heavy vehicles, high horsepower, demanding tracks and warm ambient temperatures will probably require the use of H compound tires while light vehicles, low horsepower, less stressful tracks and cooler ambient temperatures may allow the use of the S compound tires.
I think that people reporting "too much stick" and "too much control" are basing performance on the "S" tires, which are actually "track" compounds, that provide much more grip than your best "street" tires. The M3 will more than likely come from the dealer with N3s.
Per Kent 
, I am adding more fuel/info to the fire regarding tire classifications. While looking for new tires for my "real life" car, Bridgestone Pole Position S-02s, I noticed the "N2" designation next to the tire description. Being that the S-02s are among the "stickiest" street tires on the market, it would contradict "my" original thoughts about the tire classification if they are rated at "N2". Again, here is what Tire Rack has to say about the "Real Life" tire notation of the "Nx":
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=26
Production tires that have passed all of the tests and received the engineering department's release can be branded with an N-specification. The N-specification brandings include: N-0 (N-zero), N-1, N-2, N-3 or N-4. These markings on a tire's sidewall clearly identify them as approved by Porsche for their vehicles. The N-0 marking is assigned to the first approved version of a tire design. As that design is refined externally or internally, the later significant evolutions will result in a new generation of the tire to be branded with N-1, N-2, N-3, etc., in succession. When a completely new tire design is approved, it receives the N-0 branding and the succession begins again.
Question now is what was PD thinking in regards to the rating system? Just because tires "come with the car from the factory", that tire is going to differ from car to car. A blanket "N2" tires are unrealistic, or "N3" are only for Supercars, wouldn't apply from manufacturer to manufacturer.
Based on the Porsche system, an "N3" could just be a "stickier" version of an "N2" Pole Position. I guess all that matters is that N3s are obviously "softer" than N1s...but now at least I know where the "N" came from and what it means.
, I am adding more fuel/info to the fire regarding tire classifications. While looking for new tires for my "real life" car, Bridgestone Pole Position S-02s, I noticed the "N2" designation next to the tire description. Being that the S-02s are among the "stickiest" street tires on the market, it would contradict "my" original thoughts about the tire classification if they are rated at "N2". Again, here is what Tire Rack has to say about the "Real Life" tire notation of the "Nx":http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=26
Production tires that have passed all of the tests and received the engineering department's release can be branded with an N-specification. The N-specification brandings include: N-0 (N-zero), N-1, N-2, N-3 or N-4. These markings on a tire's sidewall clearly identify them as approved by Porsche for their vehicles. The N-0 marking is assigned to the first approved version of a tire design. As that design is refined externally or internally, the later significant evolutions will result in a new generation of the tire to be branded with N-1, N-2, N-3, etc., in succession. When a completely new tire design is approved, it receives the N-0 branding and the succession begins again.
Question now is what was PD thinking in regards to the rating system? Just because tires "come with the car from the factory", that tire is going to differ from car to car. A blanket "N2" tires are unrealistic, or "N3" are only for Supercars, wouldn't apply from manufacturer to manufacturer.
Based on the Porsche system, an "N3" could just be a "stickier" version of an "N2" Pole Position. I guess all that matters is that N3s are obviously "softer" than N1s...but now at least I know where the "N" came from and what it means.
- 192
Okay, so the Sports tires in the game are actually track tires. If that's the case, then based on GT4's tire descriptions, what type of tire would Goodyear Eagle F1's be? I'm asking this because I'm trying to build a replica of my dad's Acura RSX Type S that's in the game and in real life he has Goodyear Eagle F1's.
NSX-R
Just that "based on the Porsche" rating system, if that is what GT4 is utilizing, then its possible to have Pole Positions and Pilot Sports, which are pretty much he bench mark for "grippiest street tires", that are "N2"s. People have stated more or less, that, "N2 tires are too grippy", or "N2s are showroom stock", wouldn't be completely accurate.
Even if using "my" general classifications, you are still looking at Yokohama AVS100s, Dunlop FM 901, and Kumho Ecsta 712s (which I have personally used on my Corrado w/ adj. coils), all of which offer pretty high performance levels. Even if they aren't the "grippiest" of all street tires, and wouldn't be considered "N3s", they'd probably be considered "N2".
- 5,611
- Gabkicks
- GabkicksX
Normal, Sport, And Racing, dont take too much thinking to figure that out 
N S R
I hardly use over n2. It seems like N3 tires get realistic times 1min 4 seconds with the Evo 8 MR on tsukuba with only 2 laps to attack.
Are the times using Hard Racing tires realistic for the LMP cars?
N S R
I hardly use over n2. It seems like N3 tires get realistic times 1min 4 seconds with the Evo 8 MR on tsukuba with only 2 laps to attack.
Are the times using Hard Racing tires realistic for the LMP cars?
GabkicksNormal, Sport, And Racing, dont take too much thinking to figure that out
N S R
...
Are the times using Hard Racing tires realistic for the LMP cars?
True, but at least if we go tire shopping, at least we know what the "N" designates.
As far as the LMPs, all I know is that the "Factory" Audis were putting up 1:14-1:16s, in race trim, at Laguna. But I believe they were running at a restricted mid 600hp level...based on commentator's statment during an ALMS race a few years back.
colnagoPer Kent
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=26
Production tires that have passed all of the tests and received the engineering department's release can be branded with an N-specification. The N-specification brandings include: N-0 (N-zero), N-1, N-2, N-3 or N-4. These markings on a tire's sidewall clearly identify them as approved by Porsche for their vehicles. The N-0 marking is assigned to the first approved version of a tire design. As that design is refined externally or internally, the later significant evolutions will result in a new generation of the tire to be branded with N-1, N-2, N-3, etc., in succession. When a completely new tire design is approved, it receives the N-0 branding and the succession begins again.
Question now is what was PD thinking in regards to the rating system? Just because tires "come with the car from the factory", that tire is going to differ from car to car. A blanket "N2" tires are unrealistic, or "N3" are only for Supercars, wouldn't apply from manufacturer to manufacturer.
Based on the Porsche system, an "N3" could just be a "stickier" version of an "N2" Pole Position. I guess all that matters is that N3s are obviously "softer" than N1s...but now at least I know where the "N" came from and what it means.
I don't think GT4 is using this "Porsche system" to classify N-tires. Your first post in this thread seems to be correct. On Bridgestone's website, there are six categories of tires they sell: Performance, Touring, Passenger, Winter, Light/Medium Truck, and Specialty. I believe that N1 tires are in the passenger category, N2 tires are in the touring category, and N3 tires are in the performance category (truck, winter, and specialty tires aren't in the game). Your Pole Position tires are listed under the category of "performance", so those tires would be N3 tires in GT4.
However, with the N2 designation next to the description, it could be possible that in real life, N1 Pole Position tires could be the lowest quality of Pole Position tires, and your N2's could be a step up, as well with N3's and N4's. This system could just merely be a grading system for each category of tires.
For example, let's say that Porsche is making a Carrera. They know they are going to use Bridgestone Pole Position tires. However, when Bridgestone is making the tire, they are required to use Porsche's tire grading system. Porsche requires the quality to be no less than N3. Bridgestone is making the tire, and once the quality reaches N2, they give Porsche the tire, they reject it because the quality isn't up to par with a Carrera. So Bridgestone makes the tire quality N3, they submit it, and Porsche puts the high quality tire on their Carrera.
However, this is with Porsche, your link doesn't say if Chevrolet, Ford, Toyota, BMW, and the other companies uses this system, and Porsche isn't even in the game. So I would say that this grading system isn't in the game.
I think that the only way we know what category of tires cars come with is to go on the company's website, look at the tire specs for the vehicle that's in the game, look up the tire on the internet, and classify that tire as an Economy (Passenger) tire, Comfort (Touring) tire, or Road (Performance).
As a few examples, a Toyota MR2 Spyder would have N2 tires, a Ford GT would have N3 tires, and a cheapie car would have N1 tires.
Duck7892
- 602
- Dijon, France
- URBANCOCKPIT-1
Duck7892
Let me say that N3 tires could be a sort of super performance street tires (for only a small bunch of supercars).
In my mind, N2 is a nice very good performance tire for all the "sport cars. And I think N1 will be found on all the popular cars.
After reading lot of others threads about tires, as soon as you put Sport tires on a street car, the lap times are way over unrealistics (too sticky!).
Same with Racing tires on race cars (too sticky!). Sport tires seem too be more realistics and appropriate for race cars...
- 5,611
- Gabkicks
- GabkicksX
the only way to be sure is to immitate the driving techniques of a particular driver on a specific track untill you get times similar. And still there are many things that dont match up... If you get lap times to look realistic, then 0-60 and 1/4 mile times are way way off. I'd imagine it wouldnt be too hard to at least get all the damn cars to get realistic quarter mile times but none of them do... not a single one. 👎
so... in a sense its impossibleto get the cars to performe very close to their real life counterparts.
so... in a sense its impossibleto get the cars to performe very close to their real life counterparts.
nurburgring
I still agree with my previous assesment of GT4's "tire classes". As for "Sport Tires", I would guess that very "few" people on this board are qualified to make the above assesment.
Show of hands (for S and giggles):
* Who has an aftermarket suspension on their car, or driven one, fitted with N3 tires? (sign me in for this list)
* Who has tires that require heat cycling (Sports Tires), or driven one, on a track? (Pics for reference):
All pics are of tires that are DOT-legal (i.e.- you can drive home on them from the track), and designated as SCCA sanctioned "Competition Tires". These would more than likely be in the "Sports" class in regards to GT4.
The Dunlop "Racing Tire", in regards to GT4, that I got off of a GT class BMW from an ALMS race (2002 DC Grand Prix) would not be DOT-legal.
- 5,611
- Gabkicks
- GabkicksX
Does the '03 integra type R have better tires than the Mazda RX-8 (type s) in real life? the only way i can get the lap times around those of best motoring is to use n1 for the rx8 and n3's for the integra. quarter mile times are dead on and so are lap times around tuskuba.
i think i had bad luck with my comparisons before... but the rx8 seems very close with n1 tires. something is still off..
Also. with racing medium tires on the Nissan Motul Ptwork jgtc car, lap times are pretty close to real life on suzuka
i think i had bad luck with my comparisons before... but the rx8 seems very close with n1 tires. something is still off..
Also. with racing medium tires on the Nissan Motul Ptwork jgtc car, lap times are pretty close to real life on suzuka
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