Drift!

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JohnBM01

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GTPlanet, if there is a type of motorsport that's been getting all sorts of attention recently, it's drifting. Look at Samuel Hubinette sliding his 500+ hp Dodge Viper around America, the drifter so good he goes by the tagline of NOB (No One Better), and PLEASE don't forget the king- Keiichi Tsuchiya. Gran Turismo 4 kind of disappointed some drift fans by including drift cars and not drifting events. Being the people person that I am, I would like to open this discussion on how to make drifting really come alive in the next Gran Turismo game.

Forza Motorsport has something Gran Turismo 4 does not- an open-circuit tarmac hill climb. Now, a good course in GT4 to test drifting is the beautiful Costa di Amalfi. It may not be Japanese touge (hey, even I'm learning a bit), but it's more like Italian touge that's still quite satisfying. One of my favorite cars from GT4 was the Blitz Skyline. It was a very easy to drive drift car. I took it around George V Paris, Costa di Amalfi, even Tokyo R246. To make it work, I had to tune it with TCS on a very low level, but never turned it off. When I DID try Arcade Mode without ASM and TCS with it, it was a b**** to race with. By watching G4 Television show "Formula D" as part of its "Whip Set," Formula D features insane drifting action from Japanese and American cars and stars. In the most recent episode, Chris Forsberg went to Japan for some Japanese drifting on the mountains as well as tackling Ebisu's drift heaven. The car used was a black early 1993 Nissan S14 Silvia (not sure if it's a K's Aero, or a Q's Aero). Also featured in this episode was a 21st Century Subaru Impreza converted to rear-wheel drive, packing 500hp, side vents to cool the car off in the rear, and tore up Ebisu South.

GTPlanet, I want to bring this discussion so we can talk about what we want in terms of drifting for the next GT. What would you suggest to make drifting more fun and better utilized in the next GT? What should be done to help enhance the quality of drifting in Gran Turismo, not to mention making it more challenging and more unforgiving for those who aren't up to par? Reply now.

[UPDATE] NOTE: If you're going to set me straight on something, please do it in a gentleman-like manner and not be a roughneck. I'm not perfectly smart or 100% know what I am talking about. I am aware that I am a human and humans make mistakes. The one thing I can't stand is for people to offer their advice in a demeaning and hurtful manner. As I've said before, I'll be noble if you'll be noble. Thank you for your reading.
 
I think there should a be a Drift Mode, that actually comes with a tutorial and tips to drifting.

But I don't think it needs to be a Need to Complete to get 100%.
I think it needs to be like the Family Meets and Photo Drive.
 
I don't really think anything needs to be changed from GT4 as far as drifting goes. A bigger skidpad would be nice (like the one on the inside of the test course that they won't let you get to). They've got D1 cars, and both Tsukuba and Laguna Seca have been used as drift tracks. I don't even know that there are dedicated tracks designed for drifting, so what else could they really add? I don't think it's reasonable to expect a computer to judge an artisic competition.
 
I think there is many good tracks to drift in GT..
For me, i wouldn't want some NFSU style competitions, like 10 car, drifting on the track, i like solo drifting, so i would be more satisfied if they include those Touge tracks, you know, uphill, downhill through those Japanese mountain forest roads, that is so good...! ;)
 
The KB Series? Never heard of. Kaido Battle, maybe?

I might get a lot of supportive comments, but I think if GT5 had Japanese mountain roads, it would be a wonderful way to go drifting. Look at GT4's rival, Forza Motorsport. There is a track or two devoted to Japanese touge (for newcomers, pronounce "touge" like "toe-gay").

The biggest benefactor of such a Drift Mode would be fans of Initial D. I've seen a number of Initial D episodes on a three-DVD set. I've seen Takumi Fujiwara in the series attack Mt. Akina from the beginning down to the episode "Five Dangerous Hairpins!" Assuming GT5 will have this car, you can take either a Trueno or that tuner car version of the Trueno. I forget what's it's called... oh yeah! The Trueno Shigeno version. You can probably be part of the Red Suns gang and use a yellow Mazda RX-7. Be become one of the dreaded Night Kids with that black R32 Skyline.

I think drifting is fun. It's been around since GT1, but never race series fully devoted to drifting. But if you ask me, I don't really like the multi-car drifting deal. From what I've seen, drifting battles are more of one-on-one showdowns. Look at "GT Live!" last year. Look at some of the D1GP events I've seen. I just think that this is one of the hottest motorsport deals going, so why not cash in? I'd sure like to see PD come up with drift events on existing tracks, maybe even permanent road courses devoted to drifting, perhaps even go-kart tracks. It doesn't mean that go-karts have to be in GT, but it means that some drifters in Japan use go-kart tracks. There has to be nice drifting options for American car fans as well. The latest Mustang and latest Dodge Viper are drifting, so why not give American car fans a chance to enjoy some sideways action on tracks other than NASCAR racers ramming drivers off the road? More suggestions? Bring them on!
 
Drifting would be fun. I'm sure in reality that takes a lot of skill. It would be nice to learn how to drift properly and stuff. It would also be nice if they had the hill climb again. That was fun!
 
If you mean the Pikes Peak Hill Climb from GT2, I'm talking about tarmac rallies. It was told that drifting was born more than 30 years ago on Japanese mountain roads. So why not have a bunch of Gran Turismo races in a Japanese hillclimb setting.

You know, this stuff was made famous in Japan, so now that it's a full-fledged new form of motorsport, why not keep things traditional? Assuming PD looks into point-to-point racing, imagine seeing a sort of tarmac rally racing environment that suits drifting and tarmac rallying. I would like to say that there should maybe be point-to-point tournaments. If Vision GT shown us anything let's say that we have a Knockout competition with drifting. Six cars will be entered- yours and a few others. Now depending on how you want to see this done, you can have it as you start to face off against the fifth-seeded drifter, then you must work your way into beating the 5th Seed, then face the 4th, 3rd, 2nd, all the way down to the top seed drifter. It's simple. Win five races in a row, or go home. The second option would be having six drifters all competing at once, and if a drifter finishes last, that driver is knocked out of the competition. It will continue until two finalists engage in a face off.

The other type of drifting would be specialized race courses complete with cones around the track, like in Formula D or something. How you want to do things, it can be judged on angle of attack, pureness of the drift, how you set yourself up for turns, and that sort of thing. Or in the case of what I seen in GT Live! coverage on the Speed Channel, you race against someone. And if you manage a pass, you automatically win.

I'm still learning drifting on my own. But I want to give this thread for you all to discuss drifting possibilities and visions for the next GT. I think GT4 was to feature drifting, but never made it. So imagine if the next GT features full-on drifting excitement. Think about it, then give it a reply. What do you want out of all this? Drift!
 
It's funny to see all these new " Drift Fan's" just because of the new show that showed on G4TV, now they act like it's been their favorite show since they were kids.

It's a decent show to watch, but the host is annoying.
 
Well, I use things for example. Don't ask me to keep up with trends, but I'm just going on what "the cool kids like nowadays." I think this weekend's edition of "The Whip Set" (the "Formula D" side) will feature that Dodge Viper drifter versus the silver and red old-school Toyota Corolla at Road Atlanta. There was a drifting event at the Milwaukee Mile, and all the tire marks over the Start/Finish line show that. I don't know if it was actual drift competition or not, but it's nice to note certain drift events. And as I've said, I'm learning about all of this myself. So there's still a HELL of a lot I don't know about drifting yet.

Still, if you have GT4 and want a solid drifter, get that Blitz Skyline for 200K credits. It's a nice car that can even make a nice car for the tarmac Special Condition races. Only thing is, I wouldn't recommend a Drift car in the Tsukuba Wet (Hard) race. For that, if you don't have at least 3.5M Credit race car, or a pure race car that sells for at least 700K credits, you don't need to enter that race. And at least find a worthy machine. If you have Gran Turismo 3 A-Spec, the Mazda RX-7 Type RZ (is that the right name?) is a blast in Free Run races. I raced that Mazda RX-7 around Tokyo R246, and it was a sweet car with Drift Settings enabled.

All I've seen was the hit series, "Initial D" when it comes to drifting. I haven't seen things like "Best Motoring" or anything like that. So I'm not really experienced with seeing drift action. You have to look around before thinking about this sort of thing. Having said that, drifting die-hards, how do you make the next GT a great game, at least for drifting?
 
Gran Turismo is just that. Grand Touring Racing Simulator. You can drift in GT3 and im pretty sure you can in 4. Just because NFSU and Forza you can drift extremely easy. I think its an insult that you want to bring GT down to these levels so you can get a car sideways and spin the rear tires around turns. If you want to drift then get the Initial D game, Forza, one of the NFSU games or that D1GP game. The reason Drifting is so hard in the GT games because it is the same way in real life. I like drifting but seriously come one. It would be cool if it was a tad easier to drift in GT5 but i dont think there should be Drift races/stages/battles as this is getting away from the main focus of the game.
It would be kinda cool to have simulated drifting but its NOT gonna happen. They have alot more things to get right before they try to introduce something like this into the GT games.
 
This is why I want to examine and discuss how to make this work in a Gran Turismo game, because if people can do this in real life and with GT's realistic physics, then almost anything is possible. I don't know if maybe PD's latest physics model prevents having this much fun in drifting, or what. I'm exploring this on a stand point of "how do we get arcade racing fans into the next Gran Turismo with a feature people like?"

All I'm doing here is analyzing. Maybe ask a question or two. I'm not saying that we have to make the next GT into just another Burnout or Need for Speed: Underground. I probably heard of some people who are pretty good on the race track, but love drifting. Biggest one I know is Keiichi Tsuchiya. He did some laps in the JGTC before going sideways in drifting competition. Also, I try to be a connoisseur of racing. I try to find fun and excitement into all levels of Gran Turismo racing. While being a road racing fan is good, I try to expand on that. Why? It's because I'm not just a GT gamer, I love racing. I'm not just a racing fan that... oh, look, a racing game. The more Gran Turismo expanded, the more I expanded with it. I want to be part of a game, not just playing a game just to complete it and tell all my friends. Immerse me, player. Put John M. (me) into the game.

Having said that, you may not like drifting, but how can we make sideways more fun even for sim racers like this one?
 
THEY HAVE A DRIFTING SHOW ON TV?????
T_T - Why does Australia always miss out, Though if its on pay tv its a waste of money BHAHAAA, I sure I could find it on the net. AUS also missed out on "top gear" (was it called that?) the pommy car show.

On the note of driftng: Its simple to drift in gt3, Hard in GT4 at first, then its still dodgy, just gotta get used to half aceelaration before turning, and slow turn ins (for show). If the GT4 to GT5 physics can be changed to help drifting, they should get a clutch, and engine braking. (I HATE ENGINE BRAKING). But then drifters can use heel and toe, double clutching, Shift lock so on. Be cool if you could stall your car.
 
JohnBM01 👍 good point of view...
I think all we need is good GT network gaming support. GT Clan wars, Touge battles, Hill climbs, D1 and Initial D competitions, Drag Racing... no problemo...
With optimized network gaming support(with playable ~100-200ms ping) GT will becomes a real dream.
 
When GT5 is released with online they should have a drift mode where (human)judges watch the drifter and give a score in the end,in real time
 
You can drift in GT4 if you know how to setup your car right.

It's pretty much like real life as well. If you're a kid and you want to drift, you can't just take a stock honda accord onto a track and start busting out the hardcore drifts. You gotta get the right parts/setup for your car and then add a teaspoon of skill and then you can start drifting, as I said, it's still possible to drift right, you just gotta know what you're doing.
 
Chris Criswell
You can drift in GT4 if you know how to setup your car right.

It's pretty much like real life as well. If you're a kid and you want to drift, you can't just take a stock honda accord onto a track and start busting out the hardcore drifts. You gotta get the right parts/setup for your car and then add a teaspoon of skill and then you can start drifting, as I said, it's still possible to drift right, you just gotta know what you're doing.
Click to expand...

That's because Honda Accords are FF.....

If you bought a stock 240sx and dropped LSD in, you can drift. That's all it takes.
 
Chris Criswell
You can drift in GT4 if you know how to setup your car right.

It's pretty much like real life as well. If you're a kid and you want to drift, you can't just take a stock honda accord onto a track and start busting out the hardcore drifts. You gotta get the right parts/setup for your car and then add a teaspoon of skill and then you can start drifting, as I said, it's still possible to drift right, you just gotta know what you're doing.
Click to expand...
EXACTLY!
 
Like I said, I don't know these things too well. I'll make mistakes in my facts. Why? We're all human. Sam Hubinette, then. Has anyone tried drifting with the Viper SRT10 in GT4? I'm just asking.

The reason why I don't mess with LSDs in GT is because I'm not experienced with them. All I know is that if I set the LSD (Limited Slip Differential, not the drug) to a certain degree upon Acceleration, Deceleration, and Initial settings, you can basically reconfigure ANY car. You can improve it greatly, or rue the day you bought/won the car. I'm not too experienced, so I don't purchase LSD upgrades or use them to any real advantage. I know there are drift setting sites online, including some FAQs on this message board, but I just don't use it that much, nor do I know it well enough. So I don't bother with it.
 
Did you get your share of "Formula D" recently? Round One of the Formula D series was at Wall Speedway, in Wall, New Jersey, USA. Round Two is the next installment from the home of the wonderful Petit Le Mans, Road Atlanta in Braselton, GA, USA. The part of the track used is part of the backstretch before heading into that slow two-turn complex before crossing the bridge. The course looks like you have to be able to seriously control your drift. You have to turn hard to the left, then a hard right turn, followed by about two or three varying degrees of turning left. The first corner is a bit of a hard left, then more of a light to moderate left turn back to the two-turn complex. Afterwards, it's another moderate left and then a moderate right to the finish. By the way, that announcer dude (not host Rossi Morreale) That fight between Sam Hubinette (Mopar Dodge Viper SRT10) and Taka Aono (white/red 1980s Toyota Corolla) had a hell of a drift battle. Had to be settled in "triple overtime," but the finish didn't really sit well with the fans as Aono had to forfeit due to potential overheating of the engine. My congratulations to Mr. Hubinette on winning it all at Road Atlanta. Round 3 should take place in my hometown- Houston.

Now that I think about it, I kind of wonder how PD would implement drift races. I know I've drifted around George V Paris, Costa di Amalfi, and (I believe) Opera Paris. All street courses, but I think I tried Motorland drifting. Can you possibly imagine if seperate stages of certain courses were implemented for drifting use? I normally dislike this track, but I can imagine parts of Autumn Ring (full circuit in this case) being used for drifting, especially those 90-degree corners. From what I've seen from this episode of Initial D, if you spin out either too much or at all, your chances of losing are greater. If you start slipping behind and can't catch up, you lose. I think if you attack the apexes and establish a solid racing line, your chances of winning improves. And if you lose in the Semi-Finals, you go to the Consolation Round for Third Place honors. The Formula D format is a 32 try to qualify for the Sweet Sixteen, 16 becomes 8, 8 becomes 4, 4 becomes 2, and then the big one-on-one for the win. I don't know how PD would attack pro-level drifting. I think it would have to involve following the racing line and attacking the apexes. Also, try not to lose control of your car. Carry on if you have your suggestions in the next GT's drifting competition.
 
They arent really races. its about speed but mostly how big of an angle while holding a decent line and speed.

I saw rnd 1 and i was impressed with Rhys Millen and Pheiffer's skills. Very Very impressed. :)

SOme Drifting "fans" are always bashing Formula D and i admit it does get a little too ricey for even my liking. but there are some really good drifters in Formula D. THey'd realize it if they'd stop ****ing about it and just watch. :dunce:

I live in NJ, too :)
 
On second thought, Round 3 already happened! I just learned the Formula D website (http://www.formulad.com), and Round 3 was in Houston. The event was on June 11th, so if you already read the results, then you probably know who won, but G4 will likely show it much later this month or next.

With the coverage G4 provided on "Formula D" at Road Atlanta, I've seen some great action on track. I tell you, it may not be traditional racing, but the drivers really know how to attack apexes and give it their all on the course. When I pre-typed this response, I was going to say that one "triple overtime" was good, then another good race happened, then of course, there was Hubinette vs. Aono. I don't think it's all "rice." I believe it's said that "it's not 'rice' if you can't back it up." For the most part, there are some good battles. I kind of wasn't real impressed with the GT Live! drift event back in December 2004, but this Formula D event at Road Atlanta shown me something. It's about the only race series where you can see an AE86 take on a Dodge Viper. Even if you're not into sport compacts or Japanese cars in general, this is exciting stuff.

Even when I've drifted in GT4, I've had spin outs by not trying to control the drift in time. My real challenge is sustaining long drifts and even trying to work up a drift. Like when I seen Formula D star Chris Foosenberg visit Japan to be with Dai, they attacked Ebisu south. In this episode, I seen the black S13 Silvia try to get some oversteer going, setting themselves up for the smooth curve, heading into a quick right-hand turn. I'd surely like to better set my car up for drift. But for now, the Blitz Skyline drift car in GT4 is perhaps the best drift car in the game as it is easy to learn to drift, also it's pretty controllable, even when setting TCS very low.By the way, isn't the D1GP the highest class of drifting in the world?

[Extra]
By the way, isn't the D1GP the highest class of drifting in the world? Maybe the hate of Formula D is in that it's probably not the D1GP. It's still great drifting action with Road Atlanta as a huge example. Hubinette vs. Aono. Viper vs. Corolla. Nothing sweeter.
 
yea man the hachi should have one then he could have went on to race dai and that would have been a match, but it was pretty good but i love formula d cause its the only show we got here why pay 20 dollars for an option vid to watch d1 events or you can watch it free every weekend on tv
 
D1 is better :) but Its cool seeing the drivers get better in FOrmula D. The drivers are much better since last years event. Very impressive drifting. 👍
 
I already made one goof-up calling Sam Hubinette "Sean Hubinette." So here's another error to correct- Chris Forsberg, not "Chris Forsenberg." Actually, I was rooting for the Dodge Viper. I know Japanese cars do drifting best, but I thought Hubinette's Viper was going to be Public Enemy Number #1 to take down. Also, what's wrong with a drifting Viper? Sure, it's outlandish territory from its road racing success, but at least someone decided to take a V10-powered American car (kind of rare today, huh? We know V8s best) and take it to rule drift courses and win match races. Also, I kind of think it's nice to see American cars in drifting. You know, to show that drifting isn't just for "ricers." Getting a car sideways is fun. I learned from GT3 by drifting a Mazda RX-7 at Tokyo R246 in Arcade Mode. So sideways can be fun. Just ask the NASCAR oval racers who can't catch a break on the track.

With all of this, I've been thinking. Perhaps sections of some tracks in the next GT can be used for drifting. I don't know if it's a great idea, but do you remember a certain A-License test from GT1 in which there was a 100m oval you had to race five laps around in a Subaru Impreza? Imagine if there were tire walls, cones, and all to set up a drift course. Maybe imagine if in a real city in a GT game, that you went to another part of the track area (for example, a outdoor parking lot), and be able to compete in a specially-designed course either within the regular track, on the regular track, or away from regular track. One other idea would be if Clevland's Burke Lakefront Airport, popular for its Champ Car race, had the front straight as a drift course.

Do you have any ideas for drift courses? Remember, these can involve existing tracks, past GT tracks, or completely new environs.
 
its not the neccessarily the japanese cars.... its the drivers and maybe the tuners also. :)

The viper cant really blame it's performance in drifting on the car. It took years for HKS to get Taniguchi's s15 to drift the way it did by 2004. Cant expect America to be that much quicker. :)
 
the viper is cool its just like to route for the underdog car that 86 only had 160hp to the vipers 500hp so i mean that was skill for taka to keep up with him liked that the only american car that i hated with a passion was that stupid automatic no ebraking el camino hick bubba drift. man did he make me made he almost made casper cry(does'nt casper seem a little queer).
 
By watching reruns of Round 2 of "Formula D" at Road Atlanta, I can tell you about a certain element of drifting. For one, the coverage talked about "clipping points." The Road Atlanta drift course featured three cones set up, then you had to attack these cones four times on course. First you attack the first cone, move to cone 2, cone 3, and heading back to the Finish line, you go back to Cone #1, which counts as clipping point #4.

I normally don't admit to talking about this track in a good matter, but I can imagine parts of Nurburgring Nordschleife being used for drifting. Areas with a lot of kinks and surprising turns would make good drifting areas. I think the northeastern end of the course is more like a rally course, and perhaps a great drifting challenge. You may remember in the past I said that the Nurburgring Nordschleife was kind of like a rally course for GT race cars and touring cars. If you like "Initial D," you may find something to like with drifting in this game, hoping that you can turn up the heat, light up the tires, and turn that bad boy sideways. I've never tried drifting Nurburgring Nordschleife, but I can probably make a JPG file highlighting portions of the track that would make interesting drift courses. A course that seems more natural for drifting would be Autumn Ring Mini. Just add some cones for us to drift around, and we'll be more sideways than a NASCAR Stock Car.

Who says the next GT will feature only 20 or so cars? In real Formula D, 32 begin. If you can successfully qualify, you move to the Sweet 16. Win there, and you advance to the Elite 8. Win there, and you move into the Final 4. Win your match, and you're in the final duel. While maybe 20 cars will be in the next GT, let's say that several cars have entered, and only a few will qualify. I'd sure like to see authentic drifting action. I kind of laugh when I see the judges want a "One More Time!" because it's pretty awesome to have a "One More Time!" in a tight drift battle. You probably don't get that with Initial D, since it's you win, or you lose.
 

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