Drift!

[Woolie Wool]

Yeah, why not get an Infiniti G35? After all, Calvin Wan won in an Infiniti G35 drift car at Sonoma. Why not be your own Calvin Wan? Tune that G35 to perfection in GT4, and be the drifter you've always wanted to be

Furthermore, a new 450-hp V35 GT-R is coming in 2007 for about the same price as the R34 (about $70,000 in US dollars). Unfortunately, 450 hp or no, the V35 still looks like a Japanese Renault (not exactly a coincidence considering that Nissan is owned by Renault).

 

[JohnBM01]

I think during the Sonoma coverage, the Mazda RX-7 drifters said that it could be pretty risky to getting the rotary masterpieces to go sideways, since it's so light. I don't really like what are being called as "sleepy eyes" with those retractable headlight cars. "Sleepy eyes" refers to the retractable headlights being halfway up. That's the thing about drifters and drift cars. Drifting is a lifestyle. Sideways and kicking up smoke- quite fun. Of course, sideways and kicking up smoke while keeping in full control of the automobile. I don't know if GT4's game engine doesn't really allow you to have insane drifts or not, because you're drifting the car one way, then the car drifts the other way, to where you spin out. Not to be funny, but sometimes, drifting in this game kind of feels like the original Ridge Racer in which you're trying to control a drift on one side, then the car swings the other way.

Back to the Mazdas, though. One drifter had an FD RX-7 without a rear spoiler. To be honest, it actually looks quite nice without one. If people like drifting Mazdas, then I have yet to see an actual person drift the Renesis-powered RX-8.

Here's my question about drifting. Do you NEED downforce when drifting? I see some cars with rear wings and spoilers, then some don't have any. So, do you need a rear wing for drifting, or does it vary between certain cars and certain tuning settings? The only response I'd give is that you'd probably need a rear wing to stabilize the rear while sideways, but I don't know. Anyone want to answer this question?

 

[Gabkicks]

its all prefference. usually downforce means you will be able to hold more speed through corners. Some people think that the wings in D1gp are just rice but that is not true...
I think nomuken put a wing on his car so that he could put more pressure on the car in front when chasing.

If your already having a hard time breaking traction, a rear wing might not be a good idea.

 

[mwoodski]

Yeah, no mukens new car is ugly as hell with that wing, the new red graphics are cool though, and to John, you want really good drifting, chekc the Option video's or search the internet for D1GP videos, theres one that i know of, Nomuken vs. Kumakubo that i can get its on streetfire.com the videos section, drifting, i forgot what page, but it says skyline GT-r drifting with car next to it, its actually Nomuken's Skyline GT-S Sedan (ER34) vs the Ebisu/Team Orange S15, its taken at tsukuba

 

[Delphic Reason]

I think the it's quite easy to drift in GT4, if you understand the techniques and tuning needed to get a car sideways efficiently... The only thing I would like in future GT games is a skidpad, uphill/downhill courses (the aformentioned "touge"), and some more famous tracks that are used for drifting (like Ebisu (sp?))... The physics could use some tweaking... Understeer/oversteer physics aren't quite right, and the tire traction seems a bit off still... However, for the most part, GT4 delivers a very satisfying experience for grip and/or drift...

I would really like to have the option of rewinding the replays, as well as skipping laps... Also, PD get rid of that stupid watermark, or at least give us the option of turning it off... Also, bring back the car info (from GT2) where you can read information about every car in the game... That's about it... I really don't think it will ever be feasable to include actual drifting modes, as it is a subjective sport, so living breathing judges is the only way to properly score such events...

 

[Gabkicks]

Maze Circuit would be nice was the drift bible filmed on Ebisu or Maze? I havent watched the vid in a while so i dont remember. I can think of a way to make a drift mode with AI judges. i will draw a picture to show..

 

[Delphic Reason]

Maze Circuit would be nice was the drift bible filmed on Ebisu or Maze? I havent watched the vid in a while so i dont remember. I can think of a way to make a drift mode with AI judges. i will draw a picture to show..

It's highly improbable that AI judges could be effective in judging such a subjective sport... It's feasable to set code to judge angle, line, amount of smoke, even fluidity... which would be more efficient in some ways, and still less efficient than a real live person in other ways... The big problem is that "style" also comes into play... This is something that cannot be programmed into AI... It has to do with the full package, and different combinations of elements (initiation techniques, different types of line taken, methods used, etc...) that go to create an individuals "style"... an AI judge would have a hard time doing any of this, because it is all based on emotional responses...

 

[JohnBM01]

Funny you mention Ebisu. Based on what I've heard, if you can master drifting Ebisu South, you can take on almost any drift course. I'm starting my own little project on 1990s Nissans that are popular for drifting. I read 240SX, S13 Silvia, S14 Silvia, and while I'm not a Nissan guy too much, I at least have one drift car project done (the 2003 Pontiac GTO), thanks to the help of the Drift Settings provided for it. I forget which one, but I'll have to visit the GT4 drift forum more often if I want drift cars. You guys n' gals got me hooked now.

Like I told someone, this is the way I learned the ABC's of drift: initiation, execution, and completion. I think it pays to be an aggressive driver at times. If you are not in any bigtime competition, it is a good idea to do some practice runs on almost any tarmac course. What I try to do is brake into a corner, swerve one direction, swerve into the other direction, depress the accelerator in small intervals (to avoid spinning out of control), and clear the turn. I think GT manuals I've read discussed the drift for the four major drivetrains (FF, FR, MR, and 4WD). As you would imagine, mid-rear is the toughest. Since the engine is midship, you don't really get that pull you get from a front-engine setup. But done right, you can control the rear of the car in an MR car to pull off a sweet drift. I have respect for "Formula D" because it's the only series I really KNOW about. I am not too educated about the D1GP, even though the D1GP is much bigger than FD, obviously.

To me, personally, I'd want to see some drift competition in the next GT. There are some people who take sideways action seriously other than rally fans. Even if the drift competitions aren't perfect, I'd like to see some implementation of professional drifting in a future GT, if not this one. Otherwise, going sideways gets a little, well, pointless.

 

[Gabkicks]

it all depends on preference. i like drifting mR cars . i think if PD spend lots of time working into a judging system they could do a drifting mode correctly. Sure drifting is somewhat subjective, but we all know what a crappy drift looks like, and what a good one is. And those criteria shouldnt be to hard to put in a drifting mode. But that shouldnt be their priority for gt5. Improving physics, AI, and damage are.

 

[Delphic Reason]

it all depends on preference. i like drifting mR cars .

MR cars are quite easy to drift in GT4... I find them to be the easiest in a lot of ways... Once you are in a drift, they are very stable and easy to control... RR's are also much easier to drift than in previous GT instalments... The most difficult drivetrain to "drift" (slide really) is FWD (in GT4)... In GT3 it was pretty easy, in my opinion... You could alternate between the e-brake and throttle (often at the same time) to pull you through the longest of turns (or links)... In GT4, it's very difficult to pull a FWD car through medium to long corners...

i think if PD spend lots of time working into a judging system they could do a drifting mode correctly. Sure drifting is somewhat subjective, but we all know what a crappy drift looks like, and what a good one is. And those criteria shouldnt be to hard to put in a drifting mode. But that shouldnt be their priority for gt5. Improving physics, AI, and damage are.

It's just not possible to write code to judge drifting... The only way to do it would be in a highly innaccurate NFSU style... Kazunori Yamauchi is a perfectionist... If it cannot be implemented realisticaly, he will not put it in a GT game... It cannot be coded realisticaly, so I don't think we will see it in a GT game (at least not in GT5)... Drifting isn't somewhat subjective... It's highly subjective... We all have a good idea of how a good and bad drift apear... Unfortunately, a computer system does not know such things... It is based on an emotional response... AI has a long way to go before it can judge emotional responses...

I'd like to see some implementation of professional drifting in a future GT, if not this one. Otherwise, going sideways gets a little, well, pointless.

So would I... I think that would be splended... Howebver, I want it done right.... If it's not done right, it will be a joke, like the NFSU series...

Drifting is not just about competition... If there was no way to compete, drifting would be pointless?... I'm sorry, I just don't see it that way... Drifting is about the enjoyment of controlling a vehicle at the limit... I have been drifting IRL for a few years, and in the GT series for longer, and I have taken part in very little competition in either... It all comes down to how competitive you are... I would drift even if I wasn't competing in drift events...

 

[Gabkicks]

i was going to say the same thing about yamauchi being a perfectionist. but.... what about the understeer?

 

[Delphic Reason]

i was going to say the same thing about yamauchi being a perfectionist. but.... what about the understeer?

I'll give ya that... However, now that I have had the game for a while, the understeer has become more of a blessing...

 

[JohnBM01]

Chi-Town, baby! Time to drift again! Round 5 of Formula D took place in Chicago. Just like the Houston round, the course is a parking lot. The parking lot is the parking lot of Solider Field, home to the NFL's Chicago Bears.

The Chicago course starts with a quick left turn and going straight into a clockwise Figure-8, then a transition with a right corner that blends into a smooth left corner to finish the course. Basically, it is a unique twist to Figure 8-type courses. Maybe unlike Houston (besides the heat of Houston), the Chicago course is actually pretty narrow. People have smacked the wall, not to mention seeing a cameraman getting hit.

As far as the action went, things were quite decisive. Samuel Hubinette beat them all, Ken Gushi and Rhys Millen combined for some hot tandems. Tyler McQuarrie had an excellent showing, even if Kenji Yamanaka(?) beat him for Third Place. I'd still like to see Bubba Drift make it to the Final Four of a drift event. The El Camino is a pretty cool car. Final round is Irwindale, CA, USA.

Here is a question I have. If at an event, it rains, does the drifting still go on?

 

[QuicksilverFX]

Like I said, I don't know these things too well. I'll make mistakes in my facts. Why? We're all human. Sam Hubinette, then. Has anyone tried drifting with the Viper SRT10 in GT4? I'm just asking.

The reason why I don't mess with LSDs in GT is because I'm not experienced with them. All I know is that if I set the LSD (Limited Slip Differential, not the drug) to a certain degree upon Acceleration, Deceleration, and Initial settings, you can basically reconfigure ANY car. You can improve it greatly, or rue the day you bought/won the car. I'm not too experienced, so I don't purchase LSD upgrades or use them to any real advantage. I know there are drift setting sites online, including some FAQs on this message board, but I just don't use it that much, nor do I know it well enough. So I don't bother with it.

basicly all a LSD dose is make both wheels turn at the same time, you can still get a car sideways without one but a LSD is needed if u really want to drift. me and my cousin get sideways in his stock 240sx all the time but only one wheel has power becasue of the lack of the LSD. not all cars have to be RWD to drift, some people put trays under there back wheels in FWD cars and go drifting.

 

[Tenacious D]

Drifting will be easier in the GTs on the PS3 because the physics will be even more refined with a high resolution game engine, and the processor horsepower will be there to manage it properly.

However, I don't want it put in as a specific event in the next GT, or any of them, except possibly as options you don't have to mess with. The game simply won't have all the necessary "intelligence" as said before to give any but the crudest scoring.

Let be as it is in GT4, something you can do on your own for bragging rights with friends.

I have to say that nothing makes me want to do a food run faster than for one of my drift happy friends get behind the wheel and do incessant spin outs trying to find the groove. Way beyond boring into AARGH! territory.

 

[G-T-4-Fan]

I still very much like F1 Mclaren's idea, just to get some drift liscence I dont know what it would be judged by though.....it's just freakin fun to do I think

 

[SpeedD3mon]

If they put drifting as part of "big deal" in GT5, it would definitely gain some more fans from all around the world. GT4 is kinda based TOO much on grip racing and i would like to see it balanced 50/50. Also some famous japanese mountain courses that actually exist -- i mean you can go grip racing there too, its not ONLY for drifting you know?..

 

[JohnBM01]

You're right, SpeedDemon. Even in the Ridge Racer games, there are two types of cars- Drift cars, and Grip cars. Either you slide that bad boy out and look good doing it, or you handle the corners like an F1 car with it. I think Gran Turismo 1 kind of had a mixed handling style to it. The cars handle well, but like with my favorite auto in the game (Mitsubishi GTO/3000GT), I could slide around my 930hp beast almost like a rally racer. It wasn't much fun in GT2, since highest output was about 630hp with some rough handling. I think a car has to be tuned to drift. And if you're going to drift, have some fun. I'm not expecting 20 cars drifting into a corner at once or something. I think it should be one-on-one if you're going to have drifting. Just make it either a tournament setup or a mini-game or something.

My last question was unanswered, so let me ask again. If before or during, a drift event that there is precipitation, is the drifting delayed, or do they fight it out in the rain?

 

[SpeedD3mon]

If before or during, a drift event that there is precipitation, is the drifting delayed, or do they fight it out in the rain?

They battle it out or it will be same as "running away"

 

[Patrik]

I really hope they do Drift AI's! that would be awesome, and the AI should not be perfect all the time, it can make bad drifts, crash and those things...

 

[Greycap]

I'm going to say it straight.

Drifting is GT4 is fun, but it really doesn't belong to a Gran Turismo game as a separate racing mode. It is a racing game, not a drifting game. if you want fancy-looking overtuned cars and endless drifts, don't play Gran Turismo. That game is meant to be a "who is the fastest" game.

I like the Gymkhana course, it's a bit small but a good place to throw the car around. Even I would like to see a big area where to drift but NO DRIFT EVENTS, PLEASE.

 

[Delphic Reason]

I'm going to say it straight.

Drifting is GT4 is fun, but it really doesn't belong to a Gran Turismo game as a separate racing mode. It is a racing game, not a drifting game. if you want fancy-looking overtuned cars and endless drifts, don't play Gran Turismo. That game is meant to be a "who is the fastest" game.

I like the Gymkhana course, it's a bit small but a good place to throw the car around. Even I would like to see a big area where to drift but NO DRIFT EVENTS, PLEASE.

Once again, we are in agreement... Good call...

 

[Boundary Layer]

i too am in full agreement.
Drifting is something I enjoy doing in the GT4 - it allows me to experiment with the physics and push them as far as I can. It's a fun passtime

But I think a soon as it were made an actual game option, the challenge for me would decline, and the enjoyment would follow. It'd be dumbed down so that every joe schmo could do it, provided he has 2 working thumbs. In that regard, i dont think it fits.

to reitterate - it's nice that the physics do allow for drifting to take place. But I think thats as far as it should go in GT. As long as PD continues to improve the game physics in future installments, I'll be a happy camper.

 

[crimson_menace]

I'm not a big drifter, but i kinda grasped the concept from NFSU2, and watching drift comps. on the speed channel. I bet if GT went more in depth with drift racing, as well as drag, rally and anything else i've left out, there wouldn't be a better game anywhere! ever.

 

[Gabkicks]

the true essence of drifting is more about having fun with a car and showing off your level of control over the car. If you want to see pure unadulterated drifting check out the latest best motoring Hot version international video.
👍

If if gt5 is online there will be lots of drifting.

 

[JohnBM01]

ONE MORE TIME!! This is the final Formula D update to this thread. I wanted to hold out this long so that I can offer up a full season of what happens so that we have visual evidence of drifting action. Now sure, if you have seen videos online and such, you probably seen everything already. But I wanted to talk FD so that I can use Formula D as a basis of offering an American drifting brand. It may not be the D1GP, but it's about the closest we'll get unless a rival series in America steps up.

Round 4 was in NoCal in Sonoma, CA, USA. This final round is in SoCal in Irwindale, CA. Of course, you Californians can be the judge as to which side of California is better than the other. But back to business. Irwindale, when not hosting a Formula D final, is your average American "short" track. This course starts out on Turn 4 of the oval. Then, there was sort of a left-right-left transition off the banking. Afterwards, there is a sweeping left of the oval, and finally a mid-speed right hairpin to close out the course. The walls are scary, but not as much as the Chicago course.

Now let's get to the race itself. Among the competitors who advanced to the Sweet 16 (please set me straight on any name I misspell) include Conrad Grunewald, Robbie Nishida, Ken Gushi, Derrick Rodgers, Seigou Yamamoto, Vaughn Gittin Jr., Tyler McQuarrie, Daijiro Yoshihara, Mike Peters, Chris Forsberg, Alex P., Ben Schwartz, Yukinobu Okubo, Sam Hubinette, Tanner Foust, and "Mad Skills" Rhys Millen (top qualifier).

Extra comments in my next post.

 

[JohnBM01]

--- EXTRA COMMENTS: ---
As some post-race commentary, I never realized how lovely the Mazda RX-7 can be. I was never really an FD RX-7 fan, but my. It's a beautiful car of the past decade. * Team Falken's RX-7 with Ben Schwartz was a beautiful sky blue and aquamarine FD RX-7 without the wing. I think "Bubba Drift" is a pretty cool drift car. Sure love to see it win one or advance to the Final Four of a drift event. It was also interesting to see a Shelby Cobra going sideways at Irwindale. * Daijiro Yoshihara kind of has an 80s throwback look, wearing a hot pink shirt and messy hair. * You know I love the S15 Silvia. And seeing Chris Forsberg take down the sweet Jasper Performance Toyota Supra of Tyler McQuarrie. * If it's one thing I liked about this event, it's the roar of the American motors. I normally don't admit to or prefer American motors at work, but it's a sweet sound from Millen's GTO, "Bubba Drift," Ken Gushi's Mustang, and such. * Defending FD champ Sam went down hard in the Final Four. So it's a chance to Rhys Millen to clean up. * It's a joy to see the Signal Auto Nissan of Yukinobu-san. He ended up third. * Chris Forsberg vs. Rhys Millen with Millen able to snatch the title. Chris Forsberg lit it up... literally. So much so, Forsberg's ride had some fire from the back as well as excellent smoke. But all that mattered was drifting out of control, looking good doing it, and staying in control, dig it?

My congratulations to Chris Forsberg upsetting Rhys Millen. Despite the upset, it didn't matter as Rhys Millen still won the title. The year in Formula D is over. And so, we now have a little insight as to what drifting is like. Only question is, if PD implements drifting, how can they make it hot?

 

[G-T-4-Fan]

Bump, because I have a drift input for GT5.

Well, GT4 is a nice drift game but still it misses some tiney details.

When you press the throttle, the rear tyres will have almost no traction when in a drift. Thats obvious, but GT4 doesn't accurately simulate the sideways push you get when pressing the throttle in a drift. Thats probably why you cant make donuts either, it just misses that sideways force/push on the rear tyres when spinning.

Plus, just the smoke, it should be more, and longer lasting after a while. I agree that some drifts begin smokeless, and take time to develop smoke, but once the smoke is there, it should be able to get more and more.
In GT4 however, you go sideways and IMMEDIATLY smoke appears, even if you dont press the throttle, it smokes, but smoke should be more linked to the throttle in GT5. And then after you get some smoke, there must be room for the smoke to increase.

It seems there's just a tiney bit of variation in smoke in GT4. And the smoke just depends on the angle and not the throttle. Thats something I want to see changed. If thats changed though, it will be one of the best drift games ever

 

[road kill]

well this is me personally no flame intended but i absolutley hate formula D 👎 its just a bunch of high horse power cars drifting. they all have like 500hp sure its still hard but i cant be impressed by that... just pure power drifting and i hate street fury just the same... its just your same ol ''ricer'' show. of cousrse it has civics getting scissor doors and hydralics and then out of no where you have models dressed in barley anything...imho drifting has gotten waay to mainstream and i just cringe whenever i hear someone say '' yo lets get sidewayz'' now EVERYBODY wants to drift. gah i cant stand it

and also no drift events like b\l said everyone would be drifting and like i said before i dont want gt4 to be biased toward drifting i want it to be like it is now, it doesnt care either way exactly how a driving sim should be.remember gt4 the offical driving sim not drifting sim..

 

[luftrofl]

Roadkill- Stop watching G4TV

Back on topic: I wouldn't mind a drifting bit of the game, but don't make it count towards the 100% completion. Make it an option like photodrive or practice when you go to a race track. No judging, but it'd be neat to actually be drifting next to an AI-controlled car.
In GT4's interface it would go somewhat like this:
World Circuits > Tsukuba > Drift