Drift!

[road kill]

Roadkill- Stop watching G4TV

hey g4tv is cool! and theres not much else on..

 

[JohnBM01]

I think drifting can be gold in Gran Turismo. There's a following of drifting here on GTPlanet, and I'm sure PD can find ways to cash in on drifting. They can stack up yen by finding some ways to improve the driving physics to allow some nice drifting action.

 

[G-T-4-Fan]

But for the guys here that ACTUALLY drift alot in GT4.......the AI has to be soooooooooo friggin good to get it drifting.....drifting skill comes with huge experience. I dont think that can be taught to the AI properly.

 

[Gabkicks]

i dunno about being taught but ai can be programmed to drift if pd really wanted to

 

[G-T-4-Fan]

But I dont think they really want it that bad

 

[road kill]

i dunno about being taught but ai can be programmed to drift if pd really wanted to

i seriously doubt that. in drifting you have to control something thats out of control. maybe it is possible but i doubt it. and besides do we really want another part of the game called drift mode? i mean then you might as well go and make ''grip mode'' gt4 is meant for racing in any style not just drifting

 

[Delphic Reason]

Drifting should never be implemented into any Gran Turismo game, in my opinion... Why would you need a special mode to drift?... Drifting is way too subjective to ever be implemented properly into a video game... I know what some of you are thinking... "What about NFSU?"... Well, that game did a terrible job of implementing a realistic drift scoring system... If PD were to do it, it would have to be realistic, which I don't see being possible...

Not only that, but such an addition would definitely change the style of the game, bring a lot of so called "ricers" into the online field, and generally cheapen the whole experience... You can drift all you want in all of the GT games thus far, so I don't see a point to adding a special "Drift Mode"... Just grab a car, set it up, and take it to your favorite track... If you want to be involved in a drift competition, just join one of GTP's official drift competitions (GTPDC's)... The latest of which can be found here:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=76872

The only thing PD can do to improve upon the drifting experience, is to improve the physics... I.e. improve the traction coeficients, improve suspension geometry, etc...

That's my .02 cents...

 

[JohnBM01]

That leads to my next question. What IS good drifting physics? How do you implement better drifting physics? And how do you bring it all together?

 

[Tenacious D]

I think the primary missing ingredient in drifting in GT is the clutch. You can do a reasonably good job of maintaining drift with the gas pedal, but clutching is really useful. Maybe essential but I'm not a drift fan. Mostly it bores me quickly. I have a relative who likes to do nothing but drift and it puts me to sleep.

Maybe for those who enjoy it, Logitech could make a three pedal floor pad to go with the existing DF Pro. I might even consider getting one, but it's at the very bottom of my list.

 

[Delphic Reason]

That leads to my next question. What IS good drifting physics? How do you implement better drifting physics? And how do you bring it all together?

Not "drifting physics"... "driving physics"...

Drifting is something that is made possible by good "driving physics"... I'm not going to get into the details about what's wrong with GT4's physics (and what's right)... It's been done to death, and everyone know's where GT4 falls short, at this point...

 

[zoxxy]

I would love to have a driftmode with tutorials and such, but with the same physics as the rest of the game! F.e. a drifting mission would be awsome as well as having some famous drift star to guide you trough that double-left at Apricot Hill. It would make the game much more personal, and that's what's missing from the current GT's.

 

[__silvia__]

the fact that there would be tips on "how to drift" in a so called drift mode option would basically prevent people from learning drifting on their own. like the rest of us. who wants everyone to be drifting? its great and everything, but make it a seperate aspect of the game. come on..

 

[Gabkicks]

they could go over techniques like in the drift bible. Drifting's about car control so although the judging is subjective there are actual techniques used.

I've actually use the weight shifting techniques i've learned from drifting to save tires when racing. in fwd cars i'm able to warm up the rear tires quicker than most other drivers and in rwd cars i'm able to make ther rear tires last.

the strange thing is that great drifters are not always great racers and vice versa. If the physics are great... then i am sure that the community will make its own "Drift Bible" video for GT5.

 

[Niels]

Obviously, if there isn't a drift part dedicated in GT5, I would at least love to see some tips and techniques and set up tips in some sort of little info book.
I know that in Age of Empires kind of games, there is always an Encyclopedia, explaining dfferent units and stuff.

I would love to see some pictures and hints a tips in such a little Encyclopedia.
I dont know, but I already have my own style of drifting now but it would just be fun to read a bit of tips about drifting in GT5 IMO.
Maybe some "linked replays" in there. Those could have been replays that were recorded from real life GT5 players, I dont care.

I just want to see that PD showed a bit of interest towards the drifting community of GT5.

 

[Jim Prower]

There are good arguments for either, but, i'd say, just leave drift mode to NFS:U and use the free run to drift your heart out.

However, some BASIC drift tutuorials in the manual would be nice.

 

[JohnBM01]

Why is it that drifting is associated by most of you as "Need for Speed: Underground" material? I don't believe there's anything about it that screams "rice." How do you explain Bubba Drift's El Camino old schooler? Rhys Millen's GTO? S/ Hubinette's Viper? It is a lifestyle motorsport, but let's not associate it with illegal street racing or evading police. Calm down on this deal. NFS:U has so much in the game to make it what it is and how we relate to it.

Some would want it as part of the requirements for 100% completion, some do not. How about this: make drifting available in Arcade Mode, so that you don't have to worry about doing this in simulation? I would still like to drift in Simulation Mode, though. I wouldn't want all of this to be exclusive to Arcade Mode, but I'm offering it as an Arcade Mode suggestion for those who do not wish to have it as a Sim requirement. I'd just want to be able to compete in drifting if I want to give it a whack. Or here's a better idea... how about we make Drifting available in Arcade Mode and as a Family Cup-style event in Simulation Mode. This proposal gives drifters the chance to go sideways and maybe compete in tandem battles and tournaments. Maybe there can also be "ONE MORE TIME!!" events if the scoring is tight. Drifting with this second idea means that you can freely drift in a drifting environment and not have to worry about completing them for 100% completion credit.

The only reason I'm doing this is to give drift fans some positive comments and interesting ideas to give drifters the chance to let it all hang out. A legitimate drift mode will make fans happy. This is a lifestyle motorsport I have some newfound respect for since drifting the Blitz Skyline in GT4. You know, I would even go on the aspect that R. Millen's Pontiac GTO and S. Hubinette's Viper should both be featured to give some American appeal.

 

[Niels]

Why is it that drifting is associated by most of you as "Need for Speed: Underground" material? I don't believe there's anything about it that screams "rice." How do you explain Bubba Drift's El Camino old schooler? Rhys Millen's GTO? S/ Hubinette's Viper? It is a lifestyle motorsport, but let's not associate it with illegal street racing or evading police. Calm down on this deal. NFS:U has so much in the game to make it what it is and how we relate to it.

Some would want it as part of the requirements for 100% completion, some do not. How about this: make drifting available in Arcade Mode, so that you don't have to worry about doing this in simulation? I would still like to drift in Simulation Mode, though. I wouldn't want all of this to be exclusive to Arcade Mode, but I'm offering it as an Arcade Mode suggestion for those who do not wish to have it as a Sim requirement. I'd just want to be able to compete in drifting if I want to give it a whack. Or here's a better idea... how about we make Drifting available in Arcade Mode and as a Family Cup-style event in Simulation Mode. This proposal gives drifters the chance to go sideways and maybe compete in tandem battles and tournaments. Maybe there can also be "ONE MORE TIME!!" events if the scoring is tight. Drifting with this second idea means that you can freely drift in a drifting environment and not have to worry about completing them for 100% completion credit.

The only reason I'm doing this is to give drift fans some positive comments and interesting ideas to give drifters the chance to let it all hang out. A legitimate drift mode will make fans happy. This is a lifestyle motorsport I have some newfound respect for since drifting the Blitz Skyline in GT4. You know, I would even go on the aspect that R. Millen's Pontiac GTO and S. Hubinette's Viper should both be featured to give some American appeal.

Exactly:tup:
And remember, drifting tends to go more to "art" than ricer. It's something you DO that is judged. I know ricer cars are judged too in someway but thats just judged on your taste of buying parts.
Drifting is an art in development

It's a very good idea to introduce some drift events into GT5, in an arcadish style. Though I dont think you can let it be judged by the AI...
How can the game's AI be programmed to recognize different drifting styles?
And taking original but fast lines and judging if something was a mess up or intended?

 

[Delphic Reason]

Why is it that drifting is associated by most of you as "Need for Speed: Underground" material? I don't believe there's anything about it that screams "rice." How do you explain Bubba Drift's El Camino old schooler? Rhys Millen's GTO? S/ Hubinette's Viper? Calm down on this deal.

Despite what you think drifting is... It is viewed by many as a passing fad, and IS being exploited just as the tuner scene has been over the last 10 years, or so... Like it or not, drifting is viewed by most as the new "ricer" fad... Of course, drifting is an artform, and should be respected... However, US marketing has turned it into something of a much cheaper and a much less profound experience... There are many American drift cars out there (especially in the horrible Formula D series), but it's the marketing of these events that is cheapenning the experience for the true drift fans (of which I am one)...

NFS:U has so much in the game to make it what it is and how we relate to it.

That is true... However, it is the terrible drift physics, judging system, and overall experience that is so distasteful to drifters...

Some would want it as part of the requirements for 100% completion, some do not. How about this: make drifting available in Arcade Mode, so that you don't have to worry about doing this in simulation?

Here's a news flash... Drifting is available in all modes of every GT game ever made... Drifting is something you can do with any vehicle, on any track, in every GT game... Adding some cheap little arcade drifting mode, with some cheap AI judging system is not going to add anything to the GT series... It only serves to cause problems, and cheapen the overall experience... It's just not possible with todays technology, to implement a realistic drifting mode, with realistic judging... Many have tried, and many have failed...

You know, I would even go on the aspect that R. Millen's Pontiac GTO and S. Hubinette's Viper should both be featured to give some American appeal.

Very true... They probably will be, seeing as how popular the HKS and Blitz drift cars are in the current GT game... Hopefully Rhys's GTO will handle better than GT4's Pontiac GTO...

It is a lifestyle motorsport, but let's not associate it with illegal street racing or evading police.

Well, unfortunately 90% of drifters, drift on the streets, or in parking lots... All of which is illegal... It is impossible to not associate it with illegal automotive activities such as street racing...

 

[JohnBM01]

The only reason why I'm praising Formula D is because I don't know ANYTHING about D1GP. D!GP is king in drifting, but I don't have like... you know, Best Motoring or Option DVDs. It's America's drifting series and our answer to D1GP, much like how there's FIFA Soccer and then America has the MLS.

You can still drift on any track at any time in GT. Have to have a properly-tuned up car to take advantage of everything. I don't think you need a seriously powerful car. Like, look at Taka Aono(?)'s "hachi-roku," the AE86 he drifted in his tandem battles. FD fans probably remember the Triple Overtime battle as T. Aono tried to upset S. Hubinette at Road Atlanta. Then of course, due to overheating, Hubinette won. It's one of the few times where you'll see high-horsepower cars sort of match up agianst sub-300hp cars. Only other place I can probably think of this distinction is Autocross.

 

[luftrofl]

That was really the only interesting round :\

Most formula D circuits are only two turns. 👎

 

[joseph dobson]

i think a drift tournemtn like D1 would be cool, and it tells you how to set up your car for drifting as well!

 

[Delphic Reason]

i think a drift tournemtn like D1 would be cool, and it tells you how to set up your car for drifting as well!

Oh dear...

This is what I'm talking about... There are plenty of drifting games out there... This only serves to cheapen the GT experience, turning it into a sim/arcade game... Not what the GT series is about...

 

[Niels]

That was really the only interesting round :\

Most formula D circuits are only two turns. 👎

Thats very very not true, that would mean most Formula D circuits are ovals. How else would you make a track with 2 corners?? And it's about the technique, in courses that only have 4 turns, there is probably one very long turn, and 2 little corners in between that you can link.
Thats the very basic form of drifting, very simple, but also challenging, it requires a bit of everything, slower corners, high speed corners, and linking.

As for ricer, ricer is dumb, ricer is thinking you're everything but honestly you are really pathetic. In my opinion, drifters cant become true ricers, they might have a bit of a discusting taste, but if they can drift, then they have got a talent in motorsports.
Ricers IMO are civics running drag races with huge spoilers and spinners

But as DR also said, I dont think it's possible to programm the AI to drift and judge, there's no way the AI can recognize styles and judge them unless there's an advanced analysing system porgrammed within the AI.

And....
I hope the Rhys' GTO will have better handling than the GTO of GT4, but I also hope the stock GTO will get improved handling In GT4 it doesn't drift at all really...

 

[JohnBM01]

Certainly the drift event here in Houston last year wasn't just two turns. In fact, there were a number of different slalom areas and wicked left-right shifts. The course was also bumpy and was sort of a car breaker... unless you thought the Chicago course was a piece of cake. I think tuner types would like to see something like what the Formula D crew did- take the Long Beach Grand Prix course and drift around the historic street course. That is of course, Long Beach is in GT5 (I'd love for it to be). The track which didn't seem much challenging was the Sears Point/Infineon Raceway event. It seemed like one sweeping corner into a sharp right turn, then a little straight going to a sharp left turn... end of course. I normally loathe racing Nürburgring Nordschleife, but the northeastern end of the course is more like a rally course. A few sections of the northeastern part of the track would make a nice drift course. Either that, or the A-License Final with that Mazda RX-7 on that other part of the track.

Speaking of Houston, the ALMS and Champ Car event around Reliant Center has an interesting configuration. This is a PDF file containing a picture of the course (requires Adobe Acrobat, latest version helps):

http://www.na-motorsports.com/Tracks/TX/images/HoustonGrandPrixCourseMap.pdf

A not-bad idea for a drift course would be to use the exit of Turn 2 as the start of the course, and then the exit of Turn 8 as the end. A reverse variant would also work. Just wanted to give my hometown some love before I leave. Carry on, people.

 

[mwoodski]

Thats very very not true, that would mean most Formula D circuits are ovals. How else would you make a track with 2 corners?? And it's about the technique, in courses that only have 4 turns, there is probably one very long turn, and 2 little corners in between that you can link.
Thats the very basic form of drifting, very simple, but also challenging, it requires a bit of everything, slower corners, high speed corners, and linking.

As for ricer, ricer is dumb, ricer is thinking you're everything but honestly you are really pathetic. In my opinion, drifters cant become true ricers, they might have a bit of a discusting taste, but if they can drift, then they have got a talent in motorsports.
Ricers IMO are civics running drag races with huge spoilers and spinners

But as DR also said, I dont think it's possible to programm the AI to drift and judge, there's no way the AI can recognize styles and judge them unless there's an advanced analysing system porgrammed within the AI.

And....
I hope the Rhys' GTO will have better handling than the GTO of GT4, but I also hope the stock GTO will get improved handling In GT4 it doesn't drift at all really...

Heh, Rhys' GTO doesn't exist anymore, he smashed it up good at the USA vs Japan.

 

[road kill]

Not "drifting physics"... "driving physics"...

exactly if the driving physics are realistic then the drifting will be realistic simple as that.

and there is a drifting part of the community but you have to remember its all the same its just racing or just showing off no tips how to drift...it would make the game lean towards drifting and thats exactly what i dont want like i said earlier the game shouldnt care whether you grip or drift. but thats just my point of view considering i dont drfit for show i actually try to go as fast as i can mixing up grip and drift

 

[Niels]

Heh, Rhys' GTO doesn't exist anymore, he smashed it up good at the USA vs Japan.

Is that true?

 

[luftrofl]

Thats very very not true, that would mean most Formula D circuits are ovals. How else would you make a track with 2 corners?? And it's about the technique, in courses that only have 4 turns, there is probably one very long turn, and 2 little corners in between that you can link.
Thats the very basic form of drifting, very simple, but also challenging, it requires a bit of everything, slower corners, high speed corners, and linking.

My mistake- not most, but a significant amount nonetheless(I had forgotten about a few rounds). And no, they are not ovals.
Chicago: Semi-long right into left kink = 2 turns.
Infineon: Closing right into opening left = 2 turns.

I'll admit- Road Atlanta, New Jersey?, and Irwindale were interesting though.

My mistake.

 

[Niels]

Don't worry, I dont care about it that much

 

[road kill]

Despite what you think drifting is... It is viewed by many as a passing fad, and IS being exploited just as the tuner scene has been over the last 10 years, or so... Like it or not, drifting is viewed by most as the new "ricer" fad... Of course, drifting is an artform, and should be respected... However, US marketing has turned it into something of a much cheaper and a much less profound experience... There are many American drift cars out there (especially in the horrible Formula D series), but it's the marketing of these events that is cheapenning the experience for the true drift fans (of which I am one)...



That is true... However, it is the terrible drift physics, judging system, and overall experience that is so distasteful to drifters...



Here's a news flash... Drifting is available in all modes of every GT game ever made... Drifting is something you can do with any vehicle, on any track, in every GT game... Adding some cheap little arcade drifting mode, with some cheap AI judging system is not going to add anything to the GT series... It only serves to cause problems, and cheapen the overall experience... It's just not possible with todays technology, to implement a realistic drifting mode, with realistic judging... Many have tried, and many have failed...



Very true... They probably will be, seeing as how popular the HKS and Blitz drift cars are in the current GT game... Hopefully Rhys's GTO will handle better than GT4's Pontiac GTO...



Well, unfortunately 90% of drifters, drift on the streets, or in parking lots... All of which is illegal... It is impossible to not associate it with illegal automotive activities such as street racing...

exactly considering that since they said taka aono has a 300hp 86 which is nice and all still every other car is like 500hp+

The only reason why I'm praising Formula D is because I don't know ANYTHING about D1GP. D!GP is king in drifting, but I don't have like... you know, Best Motoring or Option DVDs. It's America's drifting series and our answer to D1GP, much like how there's FIFA Soccer and then America has the MLS.

im not sure if its an ''answer'' I think its just an attempt to copy it and like d\l said the way america shows drifting ex '' lets get sideways'' it gives it a ricer sound and im pretty convinced that drifting is just mostly a passing fad and at the end only the hardcore fans will still do it.