DSJ: Vol 9 - '97 Toyota Supra RZ

Boundary Layer · Jan 28, 2006

Welcome to the Drift Settings Journal!

Here we will thoroughly examine the handling characteristics of various cars in Gran Turismo 4 with the primary focus of the discussion set on their potential as a drift machine. The discussion will remain open for as long as people wish to add input, but a new subject car will be selected on a bi-weekly basis based on the results of a nomination thread.

I don't intend to impose a heavy structure on the conversation. Basically, you're open to post any observations, feedback, or settings for the car that you wish (provided that it is constructive and drift related). Drift it how you want, where you want and let us know your thoughts and about your tuning process and tactics.

I would like for this discussion to be a way of discovering new tuning methods and styles from others. Hopefully it will also become a place to openly talk about drift related handling problems of the current topic car and learn how others have compensated for such short-comings.

If you have any suggestions with regard to how this idea may be made more succesful, please PM them to me.

The subject car for this volume as selected by the forum in the nomination thread is:
Subject Car: '97 Toyota Supra RZ

May be purchased from Used Car Lot 2

Let the drift settings discussion begin.

HKS_T51KAI · Jan 28, 2006

The supra is largely reguarded as the answer to the skyline GTR.
With its Twin-turbo, it produces mass torque, for a 3 litre.
my impressions for drifting is fairly simple, alot of torque means easier to smoke but harder to control the drift, long drifts.
I use a mild setting, semi-suspension
Camber: F:3.7 R:2.0
Spring rate: F:maxout r:4.6
Damper: f:7 r:7

No AIDS

Mods:
Racing exhaust
Sport ECU
Tires: N3
Wing: F:3 R:6
Carbon driveshaft
Twin PLate clutch+racing flywheel
2-way diff
Stage 2 Turbo+Sports Intercooler
i left the weight untouched as this will stabilize the car, as it produces alot of torque with stage 2 turbo.
I highly reconmend stage 1 turbo to drift as a starter, then up to stage 2.

Ske · Jan 28, 2006

My settings from the depot:

1997 Toyota Supra RZ

367HP / 586.63NM
-- Engine mods/Exhaust upgrade
N2 or N1 tires (user pref)
All drivetrain mods
-- LSD Initial: 16
-- LSD Accel: 38
-- LSD Decel: 8
Racing suspension
-- Springs: 7.5/4.5
-- Ride: 115/125
-- Bound: 7/4
-- Rebound: 8/5
-- Camber: 2.2/1.1
-- Toe: 0/0
-- Stabilizers: 4/4
Stage 3 Weight reduction
Brake Balance controller
-- Balance: 3/18
Wing
-- Downforce: 5/0
Ballast
-- Distribution: +50 (Rear)
-- Weight: 30 kg

It still has a tendency to push and be a bit tight overall, but with this car it can be used as a tool to extend drifts.. It's very responsive to throttle and copes with big angles nicely.

Powerover/dynamic entries and aggressiveness is the way to go here... Because of the natural understeer it's very hard to spin out, so keep pushing it and you can extend some very angular drifts... Even though it has loads of power, I find it likes to drift full throttle on N1's.

I did some changes to the setup after posting these in the depot (hence the new comment), I'll post my current settings when I get home.

MKthreeGTi · Jan 28, 2006

This Supra sucks. It's better stock than anything else. I'll come up with some settings this weekend, I'll try to make some video for it...

G-T-4-Fan · Jan 28, 2006

Ske
My settings from the depot:

1997 Toyota Supra RZ

367HP / 586.63NM
-- Engine mods/Exhaust upgrade
N2 or N1 tires (user pref)
All drivetrain mods
-- LSD Initial: 16
-- LSD Accel: 38
-- LSD Decel: 8
Racing suspension
-- Springs: 7.5/4.5
-- Ride: 115/125
-- Bound: 7/4
-- Rebound: 8/5
-- Camber: 2.2/1.1
-- Toe: 0/0
-- Stabilizers: 4/4
Stage 3 Weight reduction
Brake Balance controller
-- Balance: 3/18
Wing
-- Downforce: 5/0
Ballast
-- Distribution: +50 (Rear)
-- Weight: 30 kg

It still has a tendency to push and be a bit tight overall, but with this car it can be used as a tool to extend drifts.. It's very responsive to throttle and copes with big angles nicely.

Powerover/dynamic entries and aggressiveness is the way to go here... Because of the natural understeer it's very hard to spin out, so keep pushing it and you can extend some very angular drifts... Even though it has loads of power, I find it likes to drift full throttle on N1's.

I did some changes to the setup after posting these in the depot (hence the new comment), I'll post my current settings when I get home.

The HKS Silvia also pushes really hard into corners once you throttle it, but thats what I like really

I'll try these settings out for sure.

HiyakuShiro · Jan 28, 2006

Ske by the description of the car (understeer) it sounds a lot like the 300zx 2by2(stock). I'll post some settings for the RZ soon (testing right now), my settings will be for the DS2 (as I've noticed there are people who want them).

Ske · Jan 28, 2006

G-T-4-Fan
The HKS Silvia also pushes really hard into corners once you throttle it, but thats what I like really I'll try these settings out for sure.

Well, it pushes straight not inward

... which basically means you can floor it even more without worrying about spinning. I'd compare it to the Falken FC more than the HKS S15, which is way oversteery.

Delphic Reason · Jan 28, 2006

Well, it's not the SZ-R (which is far superior, IMO), but I'll give it a go nonetheless... I'll work on some settings tonight after work, and possibly on my two days off coming up (Monday/Tuesday)...

I have to say, Ske, your settings look pretty good... I'll give them a shot aftert work... Very similar to how I would have set it up...

DARKEST_HOUR · Jan 28, 2006

Power Mods: Oil Change, Port Polish,Engine Balancing, Racing Chip

Parts: Racing Brakes, Brake Balance Controller,Original Suspension,Triple Plate Clutch, Racing Flywheel,2-Way LSD, Increase Ridigity, Ridigity Refresher Plan ,Stage 1,2,3 Weight Reduction,Comfort Tires

Settings:
Brake Balance - 20(F) / 15(R)
Spring Rate - 18.0(F) / 15.0(R)
Ride Height - 75(F) / 75(R)
Shock Absorbers - 8(F) / 8(R)
Camber - 3.5(F) / 2.0(R)
Toe - 0(F) / 0(R)
Stabilizers - 4(F) / 4(R)

Downforce: 2/4

all aids Off

Delphic Reason · Jan 28, 2006

DARKEST_HOUR
Settings:
Brake Balance - 20(F) / 15(R)

This car tends to have an understeering problem... You may want to switch those numbers around so you don't understeer under hard braking (which is what will happen with such strong brakes, and a heavy front bias)

Ride Height - 75(F) / 75(R)

Slamming the car, even with such strong springs/shocks, causes the vehicle to bottom out over bumps and elevation changes, making the vehicle harder to control... This is true for any car... Upping that number to 80, or even as high as 90 will make the suspension travel a bit more predictable...

Oh, you forgot to mention you bought a wing...

Everything else looks pretty kosher... 👍

Boundary Layer · Jan 29, 2006

Something about extremely torquey cars is just fun every now and then.

I'm gonna put in an hour or two tomorrow and see if I can put together a setup on my DFP. I have one in my garage that I was playing around with before, but it looks like I stopped half-way. I'll probably start from scratch anyways.

MKthreeGTi · Jan 29, 2006

Does any one have a good Spring Rate adjustment?? I have mine at about 10 for now, but then I tried 14.x, the rear I put softer, but I didn't try any settings with the front soft, rear hard...This car is pretty damn hard to tune for me.

Ske · Jan 29, 2006

MKthreeGTi
Does any one have a good Spring Rate adjustment?? I have mine at about 10 for now, but then I tried 14.x, the rear I put softer, but I didn't try any settings with the front soft, rear hard...This car is pretty damn hard to tune for me.

I like this car best with soft springs (7 and lower) and fairly high ride.

@BL: Torquey cars have always been my favorites.. they're user-friendly in that you can get out of pretty much any situation, and you can keep on drifting forever...

Delphic Reason · Jan 29, 2006

Ske
I like this car best with soft springs (7 and lower) and fairly high ride.[\quote]

I agree, except for the ride height...

@BL: Torquey cars have always been my favorites.. they're user-friendly in that you can get out of pretty much any situation, and you can keep on drifting forever...

Click to expand...

Indeed... That's exactly why I don't like to drift the FD RX-7's very much...

I'm going to put in some time tonight, and try to get a good setup going for this car...

Boundary Layer · Jan 29, 2006

I'm having a hell of a time with this Supra.
the farther i get into the car's setup, the more problems I am starting to feel. It's like every change I make is the wrong one - but i make them to try and fix other problems.

I think it's the car's horrible weight balance that is causing the most problems. I'd like to be able to reduce the front spring rate considerably. But with the ride height set to 100mm I can't go below about 12.5 without losing all steering control over the rumblies.
So what I get is a car with a much more violent weight transition at the back than at the front coming off a turn - so I get brutal snapback.
I tried fixing this by pulling up the rear stabilizer and rear spring rates (independently at first, and then together). But by the time I brought the snap down to reasonable amounts I had a car that was too oversteery for how I want to drift it, and that could spin in the blink of an eye

Eventually, though my tinkering (I think it was dampers that did it) I ended up with a setup that doesn't snapback, but instead refuses to stop drifting at the corner exit. This is the complete opposite problem of what I began with....

With every step I made to try and correct one problem, another would get worse. I know there has to be a happy medium here somewhere, but I haven't found it yet. Oddly, the most comfortable setting I've had so far has had the tires staggered N2 on the front, and N3 on the rear.

I just don't like this car.

edit: I later realized that the Supra was in dire need of a chassis refresh :ouch:

No doubt that had something to do with a few of my troubles.

HiyakuShiro · Jan 29, 2006

Boundary Layer
I'm having a hell of a time with this Supra.
the farther i get into the car's setup, the more problems I am starting to feel. It's like every change I make is the wrong one - but i make them to try and fix other problems.

I think it's the car's horrible weight balance that is causing the most problems. I'd like to be able to reduce the front spring rate considerably. But with the ride height set to 100mm I can't go below about 12.5 without losing all steering control over the rumblies.
So what I get is a car with a much more violent weight transition at the back than at the front coming off a turn - so I get brutal snapback.
I tried fixing this by pulling up the rear stabilizer and rear spring rates (independently at first, and then together). But by the time I brought the snap down to reasonable amounts I had a car that was too oversteery for how I want to drift it, and that could spin in the blink of an eye

Eventually, though my tinkering (I think it was dampers that did it) I ended up with a setup that doesn't snapback, but instead refuses to stop drifting at the corner exit. This is the complete opposite problem of what I began with....

With every step I made to try and correct one problem, another would get worse. I know there has to be a happy medium here somewhere, but I haven't found it yet. Oddly, the most comfortable setting I've had so far has had the tires staggered N2 on the front, and N3 on the rear.

I just don't like this car.

Final, ONE person who agrees that this car is a "conundrum", only thing I can say is: if not for trying to make settings for it, I would never have bothered with the car for drifting.

Anywho here are my settings:

Parts:

Oil change
Racing exhaust
Racing suspension
Full drivetrain upgrades
Brake balance controler
Stage 3 weight reduction(after trying Ske settings)
Standard Tire: Comfort (N2)

Settings:

SUSPENSION
Spring Rate=9.8/9.5
Ride Heigh=106/106
Shock (Bound)=7/7
Shock(Rebound)=7/6
Camber Angle=2.3/1.0
Toe Angle=0/0
Stabilizers=4/5

BRAKE
Brake Balance=3/12

LSD
Initial Torque=18
Limited-slip Acceleration=38
Limited-slip Deceleration=16

WEIGHT BALANCE
Balast Weight=7
Front/Rear Balance=17

This car is a pain in the neck to tune(I tried everyone who posted settings before making my own), as BL said every step seems to be a wrong one.
As promised the settings are for DS2, personally think the settings make the car driftable(others may have a different opinion), I mainly focused on the understeer,while also setting the suspension to my liking(drift towards inside of track), I didnt have much trouble with these settings on big bumps, plus it handles full trottle drifts fairly well, at times little or no countersteer is needed.

Delphic Reason · Jan 29, 2006

Wow... I really don't see how you guys are having so much trouble setting this car up... I had 20 minutes this morning (before work), so I bought the car, through on a wing, Added 20kg's of ballast to the rear, and bought some slick some rims... Tuned it to what I usually use as a base to tune from... I gave it a bit too much power (around 365HP), so I'll probably drop that number a bit... Other than that, it seems to drift fine... Much better than the SZ-R... If you want to have fun setting up a car, try tuning the SZ-R... A lot more problems than the RZ...

I'm off work tomorrow (YAY!!!), so I'll post my settings then, after I tweak them a bit...

Boundary Layer · Jan 29, 2006

Delphic Reason
Wow... I really don't see how you guys are having so much trouble setting this car up...

Dunno, I didn't really expect to.
But I wonder the same thing everytime you complain about drifting FD's, which I love. Those come pretty naturally to me.

Just differing tastes, demands, and driving styles is what it undoubtedly comes down to.

Delphic Reason · Jan 29, 2006

Boundary Layer
Dunno, I didn't really expect to.
But I wonder the same thing everytime you complain about drifting FD's, which I love. Those come pretty naturally to me.

Just differing tastes, demands, and driving styles is what it undoubtedly comes down to.

In that case... Can you maybe shoot me your most balanced FD settings (preferably the older models)... As I said in another thread... I have suddenly gained another level, as it were (geeks no what I'm sayin')... My skill in drifting has increased very suddenly... So I have been meaning to start setting up some FD's again... With your help, I'm sure I could maybe find a suitable setup for them...

HiyakuShiro · Jan 29, 2006

Before I would have said: "settings are a crutch for thoughs who don't understand how to drift", but after the Mustang '05 I can't help but bite my lip.

Boundary Layer · Jan 30, 2006

PM sent DR.

I'm going to restart this car. I took a few hours away from the car, and when I went back I couln't honestly tell myself that the car was drifting any better than stock.
I'm going to try one with increased rigidity and see if that works out any better for me.

Delphic Reason · Jan 30, 2006

Boundary Layer
PM sent DR.

I'm going to restart this car. I took a few hours away from the car, and when I went back I couln't honestly tell myself that the car was drifting any better than stock.
I'm going to try one with increased rigidity and see if that works out any better for me.

That's a good plan... Once you have tinkered with a car long enough, it's tough to know if what you are doing is helping, or just making things worse... I had to start over 3 times before I was able to get the Mustang GT to drift well (which it now does)...

You might want to try adding some ballast to the back to help with the weight balance... Right now, I have 20kg's all the way back, and it seems to help with the understeer without completely nullifying it... The reason I say this, is understeer can be a huge blessing, if it's not too overpowering... Just enough understeer allows you to hold drifts longer, with more smoke, and less chance of spinning out (As Ske previously stated)...

Just 2 more hours and I'll be back home and ready to finalize my settings...

Boundary Layer · Jan 30, 2006

Delphic Reason
Just enough understeer allows you to hold drifts longer, with more smoke, and less chance of spinning out (As Ske previously stated)...

Yup, that is well understood at this end. 👍

I think I finally have something I can post without being embarassed over. Ended up going to original suspension vs the racing kit. My thinking was that the lower ride height perhaps means that it has greater travel? who knows... but I got the front spring rate down where I like it without completely losing control over curbs.

I was going to put the rollcage on the car (as I mentioned earlier in this thread) but I noticed that I had not done a chassis refresh to the Supra before struggling with it earlier this afternoon :ouch:

noob mistake if ever I've made one... I don't know if that was the root of my trouble, but I'm sure it wasn't doing me any favours. Maybe I tapped into some ugly chassis harmonics (if GT4 bothers to calculate such things)

Here's where I am right now:

'97 Toyota Supra RZ [BL's Base Settings - 2 revisions]

Purchases:

Oil Change = 330hp
PO0209 Rims
Brake Balance Controller
Full Customize LSD
Original Suspension
N2 Tires (front & rear)
Chassis Refresh, Stage 3 Weight Reduction

Settings:

Brake Controller: 2 - 9

Suspension:

Spring Rate: 10.5 - 9.8 [kgf/mm]
Ride Height: 100 - 100 [mm]
Shock Absorbers: 6 - 7
Camber Angle: 2.0 - 0.6
Toe Angle: 0 - 0
Stabilizers: 4 - 4

Driving Aids: 0 - 0 - 0

Limited-Slip:

Initial Torque: 10
Acceleration: 34
Deceleration: 15

No ballast or downforce adjustments

I call them base settings because there is still more that could/should be done. Further drivetrain mods would be well recieved and I might take the power up slightly. But these drift alright on their own.

I've been feeling the urge recently to put together another short video, just for something to do. I think I have a few decent clips here with the Supra that a dive replay could work wonders for. I might make something later this week for fun.

edit:
Just noticed how very similar my settings are to those of AngleProvidence 👍

Delphic Reason · Jan 30, 2006

Ok... I think I found the sweetspot...
Another crowning achievment... These are up their with my Mustang GT settings, as far as amazing transformations... From :ouch:

to

in the blink of an eye...

'97 Toyota Supra RZ [DR's Near Final Settings]
349HP (According to Settings Menu)

Purchases:

Oil Change
Racing Chip
Racing Brakes
Brake Balance Controller
Full Customize LSD
Original Suspension
Full Customize Transmission
Triple Plate Clutch
Racing Flywheel
Carbon Driveshaft
N2 Tires (front & rear)
Wing (Spoiler)
Chassis Refresh, Stage 3 Weight Reduction

Settings:

Brake Controller: 3 - 10
Ballast: 20, +50

Suspension:

Spring Rate: 11.0 - 8.4 [kgf/mm]
Ride Height: 92 - 94 [mm]
Shock Absorbers: 6 - 6
Camber Angle: 2.0 - 1.0
Toe Angle: 0 - 0
Stabilizers: 2 - 2

Driving Aids: 0 - 0 - 0

Limited-Slip:

Initial Torque: 12
Acceleration: 34
Deceleration: 10

Transmission:

Auto 12
Final 3.266

This car smokes like a 90 year old woman at a slot machine (that means a lot, to the uninitiated )... Use weight transfer to your advantage... This car is somewhat heavy even with the Stage 3 weight reduction... So, keep that in mind when coming up on a turn at high speeds... Slight feint, lift off, and braking all work well with this car... I find a combination of all 3 produces the best results for initiating a drift... If you find yourself coming up a bit short on exit, hit the gas hard, and the higher LSD Accel setting will come into play... Smoothly pushing you forward through the exit... There were a few times I didn't think I could salvage a drift, yet I slammed down the pedal, and managed to pull through...

I'm actually quite amazed how similar our settings are, BL... We tune from a very similar standpoint... Although, you like to use softer suspension, and you take a slightly different approach to suspension and LSD tuning... I haven't tried your settings yet (I haven't seen them until just now), but I certainly will...

Ske · Jan 30, 2006

Delphic Reason
I have suddenly gained another level, as it were (geeks no what I'm sayin')...

Sure do, I'm still waiting for that "ding" in DFP skills myself.. but at least I can drift again :crazy:

Would you mind posting those Mustang settings, btw? I'd like to see what you did to it, I still wanna make that car go sideways and it might give me some ideas for cars I'm having similar problems with (350Z comes to mind)...

As it were, the Supra settings I posted are the ones I'm currently using.. seems like I've lost some settings there (I remember the camber and LSD being totally different), but I'll try and figure out what they were. I still like the settings I posted, even though it handles a bit "different" from my other drift cars... it really has to be manhandled, but it'll do crazy stuff if you push it

I'll check out the settings posted here, and try to work out some more "normal" handling settings. These settings do seem a bit reserved to me, I tend to like my cars slightly wilder (than BL and DR at least...) as I like to be able to just floor it

Boundary Layer · Jan 30, 2006

Delphic Reason
I'm actually quite amazed how similar our settings are, BL... We tune from a very similar standpoint... Although, you like to use softer suspension, and you take a slightly different approach to suspension and LSD tuning... I haven't tried your settings yet (I haven't seen them until just now), but I certainly will...

Yup, very similar. And it was the same case when I looked at AP's settings after posting my own. All three settings of ours share a lot in common. That's not the first time it's happened though. I recall that our R31 settings were near identical, with exception made for spring rates, DR.

I'll certainly give those LSD settings of yours a try (AP's as well) - that's one area in this setup where I'm a little uncertain. Stock LSD settings weren't too bad for me, and those are not so dissimilar from your Beta settings. I think I only dropped the LSD accel so to be able to kick the tail out a bit easier while on the gas through highspeed kinks and sweepers. I tuned on GVS and TM, so there's a few of those to negotiate. But I'm not sure that my change is all that significant (or even that effective). Its probably hindered me as many places as it has helped.
If I upped the power a tad I might get away with it.

Delphic Reason · Jan 30, 2006

Would you mind posting those Mustang settings, btw? I'd like to see what you did to it, I still wanna make that car go sideways and it might give me some ideas for cars I'm having similar problems with (350Z comes to mind)...

Yeah, I have the day off tomorrow, so I'll post a few of my new settings... I'm with ya on the 350Z thing... I've had some trouble with that vehicle, myself... Maybe a future DSJ?...

I think I only dropped the LSD accel so to be able to kick the tail out a bit easier while on the gas through highspeed kinks and sweepers. I tuned on GVS and TM, so there's a few of those to negotiate.

Once I moved the LSD Decel to 15, and added a bit of rear ballast, I didn't have any trouble getting the tail out... After that it was just about tweaking the LSD and power to get the right balance of wheelspin and grip...

I really like these settings... It's not often I come up with settings that make me completely change my mind about a car... I really like this car now... However, I labeled them as "Beta" for a reason... I will continue to make small tweaks... They may change, they may not...

Now I just need to apply some of the same ideas to my SZ-R...

identti · Jan 30, 2006

I'm confused why on GT4 the 350z is such a poor drift car when in real life it's supposed to be such an easy car to drift as standard.

Ske · Jan 30, 2006

I just realized that the key to making this Supra good to drift is the wing.. I used DR's settings and they seemed way too tight at high speed, but when I added a wing and 10/0 downforce (also not quite sure about the LSD accel.. might lower it slightly) it's almost perfect!

Delphic Reason · Jan 31, 2006

Ske
I just realized that the key to making this Supra good to drift is the wing.. I used DR's settings and they seemed way too tight at high speed, but when I added a wing and 10/0 downforce (also not quite sure about the LSD accel.. might lower it slightly) it's almost perfect!

I just have a wing on for looks... I don't have any downforce applied... Although, I'll give that a try...

I'm glad you like the settings... As I said before, I am quite proud of them overall...

DSJ: Vol 9 - '97 Toyota Supra RZ

navigating a sea of fools

Gimp

Gimp

Delphicreasonium

Delphicreasonium

navigating a sea of fools

Gimp

Delphicreasonium

navigating a sea of fools

Delphicreasonium

navigating a sea of fools

Delphicreasonium

navigating a sea of fools

Delphicreasonium

navigating a sea of fools

Delphicreasonium

Gimp

navigating a sea of fools

Delphicreasonium

Gimp

Delphicreasonium

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