Out of the Water and into the Fire: Toyota

  • Thread starter YSSMAN
  • 129 comments
  • 3,836 views
YSSMAN

YSSMAN

Super-Cool Since 2013
Premium
21,286
United States
GR-MI-USA
YSSMAN
YSSMAN
I don't know if you have been following whats been going on with Toyota lately, but there has been a lot of bad stuff going on lately. Build quality is falling fast, insurance rates are up, and there is that who sexual-harassment scandal going on as well.

As I made my weekly trip to the Autoextremist blog, he comments on the situation, which can be found here.

I'd like to hear your comments about what is going on with Toyota right now. Are they feeling the pressure of being such a big company? Can the PR-Gods at Toyota spin things like this into a positive light?

IMO: Toyota will probably pull out of the situation unscathed, again. But, I think that this is all a signal that Toyota isnt perfect, and this is the begining of Toyota working in a similar way to GM, Ford, and DCX. They still have a very long road ahead for them to surpass GM as the top automaker in the world, and of course it is going to be full of hicups and other bumpy-stretches.

Of course, as a Michigan resident who has had family who has worked at all of the Big Three companies, any kind of news that is a negative for Toyota is fun for me to read. But, the Autoextremist is right... Toyota will probably come out of the situation with awards, and will continue on it's charge twards the top if we like it or not...
 
Well at least here in germany we don't have any problems with the quality of Toyota and Lexus. They are number 1 here in statistics. Afaik all our Toyotas are imported from Japan, maybe some of the US Toyotas are not from Japan, but from different locations?( South America etc)...
 
Max_DC
Well at least here in germany we don't have any problems with the quality of Toyota and Lexus. They are number 1 here in statistics. Afaik all our Toyotas are imported from Japan, maybe some of the US Toyotas are not from Japan, but from different locations?( South America etc)...
Click to expand...

We have Toyota factories right here in the states. Interpret what you will from that... ;)
 
^^Thats what some BMW fan was saying when a vette fan complained about X5 reliability.

Toyota and lexus build quality and reliability is getting worse, but theyre still top.
 
IMO, Toyota and Lexus' build-quality slip-ups aren't nearly as big of a deal as some of their horrible design and management decisions.

"Hey, let's kill the Celica, kill the MR-S, neuter the IS250/350 and start making goofy-looking cars!" :dopey:
 
Max_DC
Well at least here in germany we don't have any problems with the quality of Toyota and Lexus. They are number 1 here in statistics. Afaik all our Toyotas are imported from Japan, maybe some of the US Toyotas are not from Japan, but from different locations?( South America etc)...
Click to expand...

Allot of the stuff we get in Europe is built in Europe, i'm pretty sure the Yaris and the Corrola that we get are built in Europe. A few cars are built in Japan, I remember that the IS200 and all the MR-2's we got came from Japan, not sure about the new IS though. It's probably the stuff they sell the most of that will be built here and the more expensive less sold stuff that comes from japan.

To be honest Toyota's line up is pretty dull, barring the MR-S and the Celica which are still sold new at dealerships here but are pretty much going to be phased out. But thats the enthusiast talking in me, with the majority of the population just wanting something to go a-to-b with the best fuel economy possible.
 
Okay okay...

1) Most of the Toyotas sold in the United States are built in either the United States or Mexico these days. The Toyota Corolla and Matrix are both built just outside of Los Angeles, California. The American Toyota Camry is actually built in Georgetown, Kentucky while there are other plants in Australia and in Japan as well. The new Tundra will be assembeled in Texas, but I forget what the city name is...

2) Honda builds their cars all across the world, but the Accord is actually built in Marysville, Ohio as it has been since the 1980s. I was unable to find where the Civic is built, but I believe that it is either in Ohio or California where the US-spec Civic is built. Same can be said of the trucks, and vans, but the S2000 and Fit are the only models imported from Japan at the moment.

If I can recall correctly, Lexus had the top-spot for quality ratings in 2005. It was followed then by Buick, Lincoln, Cadillac, and Toyota. I cant remember where Honda and the other American manufactuers were, but they were for the most part in the top ten.

Toyota is slipping, as they used to be in the top three... But when you are building more and more models in more and more places with a greater push for innovation and change, there are going to be problems.
 
Well here at Marin Honda, (where we baught are Accord) is shipped from Japan. It was writen down some where, AND they also told us. Not only that, we baught the first Honda Accord 04' in Marin :)
 
Because Toyota built its reputation on quality, its downfall (if it happens) will be quality-control issues. People buy Toyotas because the general perception is that buying a Toyota will give you the least number of problems.

That said, Toyota’s quality control is slipping, if slightly. There are the huge number of recalls, of course, but I know from firsthand experience: we have a 2005 Toyota Tacoma, and its quality has been a little underwhelming. A couple interior trim pieces have fallen off, the brake pedal’s linkage rattles when you step off, and there are various rattles throughout the body – all of this in a car that just turned one year old, mind you. And this isn’t an isolated case – Edmunds.com has a long-term 2005 Tacoma that’s outfitted almost exactly like ours (long bed, double cab), and in their last update, they noted almost those exact same problems.

We still love it and, of course, the important stuff still works fine, but we had higher expectations for a Toyota.
 
YSSMAN
Okay okay...

1) Most of the Toyotas sold in the United States are built in either the United States or Mexico these days. The Toyota Corolla and Matrix are both built just outside of Los Angeles, California.
Click to expand...

The Matrix is built at the Toyota Motor Manufacturing Canada plant in Cambridge, Ontario, alongside Corollas and RX330s.
 
The problem is that they are built in North America. I'm sorry but NA is lacking in the build quality department when compaired to Japan and Europe (as a whole).
 
Sage
Because Toyota built its reputation on quality, its downfall (if it happens) will be quality-control issues. People buy Toyotas because the general perception is that buying a Toyota will give you the least number of problems.

That said, Toyota’s quality control is slipping, if slightly. There are the huge number of recalls, of course, but I know from firsthand experience: we have a 2005 Toyota Tacoma, and its quality has been a little underwhelming. A couple interior trim pieces have fallen off, the brake pedal’s linkage rattles when you step off, and there are various rattles throughout the body – all of this in a car that just turned one year old, mind you. And this isn’t an isolated case – Edmunds.com has a long-term 2005 Tacoma that’s outfitted almost exactly like ours (long bed, double cab), and in their last update, they noted almost those exact same problems.

We still love it and, of course, the important stuff still works fine, but we had higher expectations for a Toyota.
Click to expand...

Toyota has had more recalls than anyone else in the past three years... I'd say it's slipping bad.

JCE3000GT
The problem is that they are built in North America. I'm sorry but NA is lacking in the build quality department when compaired to Japan and Europe (as a whole).
Click to expand...

It's not just in NA, it's happening elsewhere. And there's another thing to consider. Wherever your plant is located, your quality control system and engineers are still to the same specifications and should meet your standards. Local work will be as good or bad as the system it follows. If there's a breakdown in the quality of work... there's a breakdown in the system.

And recalls are not often directly related to assembly work, which is the part done locally... but to engineering specs, supplier choice and design... things that a big company like Toyota is supposed to have down pat.

I've said elsewhere that the internal build quality and plastics of Toyota are going way downhill from the 90's (in many new Toyotas I've seen)... and while the average new Toyota, overall, is still a sight more reliable than a Nissan or a Chevy... they're not as indestructible as people and Consumer Reports may lead you to believe... :indiff:
 
In Australia I haven't heard any reliability issues of Toyota, infact the only reliability issues I have heard of come from Holden and Ford, although I haven't heard of any problems lately.
 
Well I once saw a reportage about the Toyota factory near Fuji-san and they an extreme level of quality there, can't be compared to anything I know from Germany. It's Toyota's philosophy in that special factory at least...
 
YSSMAN
...[ I ]nsurance rates are up
Click to expand...
How does that affect the automaker? Some auto makers work with insurance companies for collision repair solutions; this way the car can be repaired at a minimal loss for both parties. At the end of day, the rates are set by the insurance companies, not the auto makers. People rarely get another car just because the insurance rates of it went up.

...and there is that who sexual-harassment scandal going on as well.
Click to expand...
Which has as much to do with Toyota The Automaker as Monica Lewinsky has to do with the formation of the Democratic Party. But it also means an American, Jim Press, is now in charge of Toyota's North American operations, the first American to do so.

As for the build quality, I get paid the same if it's warranty or not...but it's getting worse. It's really a case of new-car syndrome; the 1st-year cars suffere the same silly maladies just like any other manufacturer. But Lexus was still rated number one in satisfaction over a 3-year-period, according to the Wall Street Journal. however, it's a little biased, it's based on total vehicle complaints...it takes into consideration things thaat can't be helped, like the numerous idiots that complain about the terrible fuel economy and wind noise of their brand-new Hummer.

Firebird
The Matrix is built at the Toyota Motor Manufacturing Canada plant in Cambridge, Ontario, alongside Corollas and RX330s.
Click to expand...
We've had more problems with the Canadian-built RX330s than the Japanese-assembled counterparts. This doesn't seem to be about the quality of manufacturing, but rather the "lot numbers" of the parts used for these first-year cars (brake boosters, radiators, seat belt anchor bolts). We've replaced them all as soon as they arrive in our drive, and increase their warranties on the said parts.

In any case, the thing that brings people back to our dealership is the quality of service, and how we rise to the occasion when the car's not right. After all, many of our clientele have prior experience with Mercedes-Benzes, BMWs, and Acuras, so they're used to waiting at the end of the service drive or for the arrival of a tow truck... :sly:
 
MistaY
Allot of the stuff we get in Europe is built in Europe, i'm pretty sure the Yaris and the Corrola that we get are built in Europe. A few cars are built in Japan, I remember that the IS200 and all the MR-2's we got came from Japan, not sure about the new IS though. It's probably the stuff they sell the most of that will be built here and the more expensive less sold stuff that comes from japan.
Click to expand...

In Europe the Yaris and Corolla Hatchback are built in the UK, the Corolla SW is built in Turkey :crazy: And of course the baby Aygo wich is built in the same French Factory as it's twins 107 and C1. There are more but I can't remember all of them. You can however demand to have a Japanese built Toyota. They still make them outside Europe at least that is true for European models, (not sure with the Aygo though) the only catch is that you will have to wait a few weeks at least for your car. As for the Lexus, every single one of them is made in Japan. They had plans to build a Lexus factory in Europe but gave up on the idead, thank God.

Toyota is loosing quality without a doubt. We've had 10 Toyotas so far in the family and the one that gave us the most problems is our newest one wich is an Avensis Verso. None of the problems were dangerous to the safety of the car but its those annoying problems that make you go to the dealer complain.
The Avensis Verso is built in Japan, so having a Japanese Toyota will not necessarily rid you of trouble.
 
I think the thing that bothers me the most about all of this is how stories of Toyotas slacking build quality, sexual-harrasment scandals, etc. have all stayed out of the mainstream American press. Of course, I hear about it on car websites on the internet, but do you hear the same things on CBS or ABC?

...I find it so stupid that the media is slanted against the American automakers. The only time they ever talk about Toyota is when something outrageously good happens, or when it is looking like Toyota is going to overtake X-company from the Big Three. It is just absolutely stupid...
 
Toyota...SLIPPING? good greif.

i was under the impression for years that the ONLY thing made in the USA itself was the trucks and SUV'S...didn't know we still did the cars, too.
what I'd put together was..
1. Lagre cars are made in canada
2. Small cars are made in mexico
3. only trucks and SUV's are actually made in the USA

who knew
 
i dont understand why an isolated incident by an individual at a company shouldbe on national news and be a slur to the company he worked for. toyota didnt sexualy harass the woman. he did.

its kinda like how the monice lewinsky thing was made into a big thing by the republicans, yet they looked aside during enron and worldcom and iraq and so on.

red herring.
 
Okay then, if the same sexual harrasment thing happened at GM or Ford, would there not be a huge media scandal? Newspapers and the television news programs would be all over it, going after Mr. X from whatever company was involved.

Why I care is because the fact that when it happens at Toyota, Honda, BMW, VAG, etc. there might be a small story about it, and thats it. It is unfair coverage of the news on behalf of the media, and it is another case of the slant twards foreign automotive companies against those from the United States.

The sad part is that what Mr. Autoextremist predicts will probably come true. Toyota will probably come out of this situation with awards from women's groups, get plenty of positive press from crap-tastic shows like The View, and then would be recognised as the car company for women. Great.
 
YSSMAN
I think the thing that bothers me the most about all of this is how stories of Toyotas slacking build quality, sexual-harrasment scandals, etc. have all stayed out of the mainstream American press. Of course, I hear about it on car websites on the internet, but do you hear the same things on CBS or ABC?
Click to expand...
CNN broke the news about the "scandal" last Monday.

The Wall Steet Journal had an article about the brakes on the '04 RX330 in February 2005, and about 2-3 weeks later, Lexus officially declared a "special service campaign" on the power brake boosters for Canadian-built models.

In any other case, editorials and news of automotive (un-)reliability aren't exactly sexy news, unless it's recall stuff that affects babies in minivans, school busses, and Firestone tires on Ford Explorers. Also, it must be said that public opinion of a corporate entity can be changed when the said entity reacts properly or to the customer's expectations with better-than-expected results.

Look at it this way, the American automakers have all slashed their workforce over the years, and nary cut as ever been made from any of the import companies that have plants in the US. Guess who's a bigger target for finger pointing?
 
Toyota sues pornography site over “Lexus” name

The owner of a pornography website that uses the name “Lexus” in its domain has been sued by parent company Toyota. “It just doesn’t make sense,” Mario Mendoza says. “They tell me it’s a trademark infringement or something. We’re not even competing in the same area.” Mendoza got the name for the site from his girlfriend, who stars on the website and whose stage name is Lexus. “It actually kind of offended me that they said I went and registered a name without their consent,” Mendoza told AVNOnline. “On the Internet, you can’t get any domain if it’s already protected by law. It was actually through Yahoo that I got the domain. I don’t see how I could have done anything wrong.” The Leftlane Perspective: Shouldn’t Toyota be flattered that its Lexus brand has risen to the point where it becomes inspiration for stripper stage names? No? Ok.
Click to expand...

Has this made the news in the states?
 
I thought the "Lexus" was pretty popular stage name in that industry anyways, not that I know much about that industry........

As for the Toyota quality slipping, unless they are slipping below that of average or something, it won't have too much affect. When we talk about Toyota, we mostly talk about the reliability & quality, but to many of Toyota buyer's, it comes down to resale value. Honda is very good, but Toyota is still on top in that department.
 
Pupik
Look at it this way, the American automakers have all slashed their workforce over the years, and nary cut as ever been made from any of the import companies that have plants in the US. Guess who's a bigger target for finger pointing?
Click to expand...

Most sane people in Michigan would point the finger directly at the UAW, not the automakers themselves. They are the ones who are adding the $1500+ cost to every car because of their outrageous benefit packages demanded by the UAW, they are the reason why people who dont work properly never get fired (thus decreasing quality, etc.), and they are the reasons why Detroit is set to lose more money with other financial woes that they have been having.

The Japanese automakers dont have to deal with any kind of union pushing the company around, most of that is left to the respective governments. And should a union try to come into a Japanese company, they are usually dealt with on the side, containing the spead of unionized workers. As for the workfore at most factories from Toyota and Honda, they are paid great wages, and most of them are happy with their jobs to begin with, thus we dont have to worry about them comming to work on a Monday with a hangover... They know that they CAN lose their jobs, they dont have a corrupt union like the UAW to back up their sorry asses.

GM and Ford are both making the cuts necessary to compete with a leaner and meaner Toyota and Honda. If that means getting rid of the people who do a crappy job building their cars and trucks, so be it. The game has become one of survival for GM and Ford (not so for Chrysler, they have Daimler-Benz's pockets to swim in for a while), and things are going to change drastically for both companies to survive in the US. Thats why you have seen their product quality skyrocket, reviews of their products have been overwhelmingsly positive, and interest in their models have jumped as well.

Give it a year or so, and I would like to see where things stand between Toyota, Honda, Ford, GM, etc. Given the generalized "renaissance" that is occouring at the American automakers, I forsee them staying on top for some time once again.
 
Poverty
Has this made the news in the states?
Click to expand...
Not yet, but maybe eventually.

How is that even remotely bad?
I've seen plenty of girls using Lexus as a stage name. It's got a sexy ring to it.

I don't exactly see Mercedes-Benz going after girls either as they're are plenty who use Mercedes as a stage name. Hell, I've even seen Porsche used once.
 
...The Lexus story poped up on, I wanna say Bill O'Reiley (sp?) the other night as his dumbest story of the day, and I've herd it mentioned on a few of the economics shows as well.

But that isnt the type of story I'm talking about. I'm talking about stories that actually mean something to the public, like the sexual harasment story. I also found it funny that when we all found out that Toyotas power numbers were rated way above what they actually were, they declined to comment. Honda wouldnt even re-test their cars at the time, and funny enough, American cars all recieved a power boost. Similarly, when build quality issues are raised on shows Your World w/Niel Cavuto or Skwawk Box neither the Toyota reps nor "industry experts" from Forbes, The Wall St. Journal, etc. will coment about them.

Atleast Car and Driver seems to have shaken their love for all things Japanese. They hated the Civic, they loathe the Camry, and they arent too happy with some of their other models either. Of course, some of the cars perform well in tests, but you cant call an Apple an Orange when it clearly isnt either. But, they did see though the Honda blinders on both of their Civic tests, and they just arent impressed, and guess what, neither am I.
 
LeadSlead#2
My only problem with Toyota is that not one car they build raises my pulse 1 bpm... it might decrese... and that's choosing a rental..
Click to expand...
I'll take a Camry over Grand Am any day of the week, although that really isn't saying much.

I think it's funny (although not in "ha ha" sort of way) that Lexus is suing, considering that Lexis Nexis took them to court in early-1989.

> Link.
 
Well, being that they dont make the Grand Am anymore, and that technically the Grand Am (now G6) is smaller than the Camry, it would be illogical not to.

But, Toyotas are boring to look at and to drive. They are too utilitarian, more of an appliance like my microwave than my car. Its there because you want to get from point A to point B, and the drive between the two doesnt have to be exciting or fun at any point in time.

GM may water down some of their cars, but atleast they have personality when compared to any of the Toyota products. This new Camry of theirs is not only quite homely, its just boring to be around. My Mom's best friend just bought an '07 LX with the four-cylinder, and I damn near fell aslep at the wheel. The only thing exciting about the entire car was the fact that it was electric blue, and thats about it.

The game will change for Toyota once GM, Ford, and DCX are all building distinctive RWD cars as their family sedans. People like to be different in the US, so I wouldnt be surprised to see the sales of the cars increase a bit, and Toyotas fall off as well.

But hey, maybe its a good thing. Maybe Toyota can go back to making cars that are worth buying like they did back in the early '90s.
 

Similar threads

Famine
Watch Real Onboard 4K Footage of a Gran Turismo Legend: The Toyota GT-One
Replies
18
Views
3K
Liquid
Liquid
Snaeper
Toyota Hints at Return of Celica/MR2
Replies
11
Views
2K
05XR8
05XR8
Krivousti
Toyota TF109 Toyota 2009
Replies
0
Views
1K
Krivousti
Krivousti
GTPNewsWire
Original Fast and Furious Toyota Supra Hero Car Heads to Auction
Replies
10
Views
3K
kikie
K
GTPNewsWire
2019 Toyota Yaris Road Test Review: The End of an Era
Replies
8
Views
13K
GTV0819
GTV0819

Latest Posts

Back