VOTE for Best French Car

YSSMAN · Aug 1, 2006

Okay kids, the nominations have been counted, and it has all come down to 27 choises, to later be drawn down to five or fewer. The same rules as always, three days to vote, finalists are picked, and we move on to the next country.

Feel free to vote, and please make a suggestion as to where you want to go next. We're still waiting for Germany, Japan, Korea (depends on if you want to do it), Australia (same story), and of course the USA.

THREE DAYS TO VOTE

BTW: I've made the votes public. We know who you are!!!

amp88 · Aug 1, 2006

So far I've been voting for the same car I nominated originally whether or not I think it has a good chance of winning overall. This week, however, I'm thinking of not voting for the car I originally nominated and voting for something I think deserves to win but I'm not sure what I should do. I'm therefore going to rely on the time-tested tradition of coin tossing.

Pug 205 GTi or Citroen DS...205 wins!

red70mach1 · Aug 1, 2006

I thought the Deux Cheveux and the 2CV are the same car.

YSSMAN · Aug 1, 2006

Good point. Guess I didn't think of that.
(Sometimes I hate being a stupid American...)

Mods, can I get a quick fix?

Master_Yoda · Aug 1, 2006

Renault Clio!!!!! Got I Love That Car!

niky · Aug 1, 2006

Errh? Do we really need two Alpines? The first one is clearly better... :lol:

High-Test · Aug 1, 2006

J'adore la Citröen DS.

YSSMAN · Aug 1, 2006

^ Ya DS!

Der DS ist das beste Auto in den ganzen Europa!

BTW: Französisch? Nein, du must Deutsche sprechen!

(just kidding)

High-Test · Aug 1, 2006

Mais non!

Je vais parler le français, et tu ne peux pas m'arrêter!

niky · Aug 1, 2006

Arretez, mon ami!... If you wanna speak french, go there! You're making my head hurt with all this jibber jabber!

daan · Aug 1, 2006

I don't want to vote for the 406. I just want to vote for the Coupe.

EDIT: What's an Alpine A130?

Also, I'm sure someone voted for a "mid 80's Alpine" which would be a A610/GTA

EDIT EDIT: No one voted for the 406 on it's own so I'm taking an executive decision and editing it to read "406 Coupe".

Abuse of power? I think so....

Danny · Aug 1, 2006

I refuse to vote on the grounds that I want them all to win.

1X83Z · Aug 1, 2006

Prediction: the runoff will pit the Veyron against the DS, at which point all the performance fans who voted for fringe cars like the Atlantique and EB110 in this thread will be forced to choose between a slow, ugly, old French car, and the fastest car ever made. And the Veyron will win final voting by a landslide.

VEYRON FOREVER!!!

Scaff · Aug 1, 2006

daan
I don't want to vote for the 406. I just want to vote for the Coupe.

EDIT: What's an Alpine A130?

Also, I'm sure someone voted for a "mid 80's Alpine" which would be a A610/GTA

The A130 was (IIRC) an Alpine prototype and never actually turned a wheel in anger on the road or track. It may have been a typo for the A310.

And yes we did have a nomination for the "mid '80s Alpine" which would be the GTA/A610 series, damn fine cars as well.

However my vote goes to the DS.

Regards

Scaff

daan · Aug 1, 2006

M5Power
Prediction: the runoff will pit the Veyron against the DS, at which point all the performance fans who voted for fringe cars like the Atlantique and EB110 in this thread will be forced to choose between a slow, ugly, old French car, and the fastest car ever made. And the Veyron will win final voting by a landslide.

VEYRON FOREVER!!!

Prediction: The DS will win by a landslide as people vote for it just to piss you off. 💡

1X83Z · Aug 1, 2006

Considering that I singlehandedly stopped people from voting for the Ford Transit in the British thread, I don't think that'll happen. Regardless, it's pretty clear the DS will win, though it doesn't deserve to.

G.T · Aug 1, 2006

Who the hell wanted the Citroen Saxo to be up there? :odd:

My vote is going for the DS. I would go for the Espace as it was the very start of People Carriers, but they aren't really that cool.

Scaff · Aug 1, 2006

M5Power
Considering that I singlehandedly stopped people from voting for the Ford Transit in the British thread,

Rather a bold claim, as I don't recall anyone saying "I'm not voting for the Transit because M5P told me not to", I could make an equal claim based on my argument that the Transit should not have been in the poll because its a Commercial Vehicle not a car.

M5Power
Regardless, it's pretty clear the DS will win, though it doesn't deserve to.

On what grounds does one of the single most important cars in European (and certainly French) motoring history not deserve it?

Ta

Scaff

Poverty · Aug 1, 2006

quite a few under par cars in this list.

Gonna have to wiki that DS thing to see what all the hype is about.

Edit.

Oh its that thing, my grandmother/mother had one of those. Its not all that, I'll ask her tonight about what its flaws where.

Scaff · Aug 1, 2006

Poverty
quite a few under par cars in this list.

Gonna have to wiki that DS thing to see what all the hype is about.

Edit.

Oh its that thing, my grandmother/mother had one of those. Its not all that, I'll ask her tonight about what its flaws where.

Be 100% sure you are talking about the same car, the DS was launched in 1955 with a list of technical specs that are only just starting to find themselves on modern cars.

4CAR 100 Greatest Cars
Loved for its comfort, refinement and that unforgettable shark-nosed shape, the eternally fashionable Citroen DS has been capturing imaginations from the day it was introduced in 1955. It is hard to grasp just how advanced this car appeared to a generation only just emerging from the constraints of rationing almost 50 years ago. Quite apart from its stunning shape the 'Goddess' featured a ring-main of hydro pneumatics that worked the suspension, brakes, and power steering and even changed the gears.

This was mind-boggling stuff in the Fifties and hardly any less so in the mid Seventies when the car went out of production. In an age of stagecoach cart springs and beam axles, the DS's hydro-pneumatic suspension was adjustable through three height positions: in the highest position Citroen boasted it was possible to drive the car on three wheels, though few owners tried to emulate this.

Limousine or rally weapon, Paris taxi or glamour-boat for euro sophisticates 30 years after its demise, the DS is the ultimate cool classic saloon that sends all the right design-conscious messages.

A car for swift, comfortable and futuristic high speed travel the DS could never be mundane and work-a-day; yet this car became as ubiquitous in France (between 1955 and 1975 almost 1.5 million were made in saloon form) as a Cortina in the UK.

Mechanically the DS was a masterful concoction of the impossibly exotic and the ruggedly humdrum; pleasingly practical features sit cheek-by-jowl with head-scratching complexity. It never really got the sophisticated engine it deserved, although the big four-cylinder was substantially up dated in 1965.

In fact Citroen updated the D constantly over the years, sometimes taking away from its idiosyncratic features in a bid to keep the design up-to-date with its competitors, but the body always featured easily removable, unstressed panels, a glass-fibre roof and stainless steel bright work. The main visual change came in 1967 when the faired-in headlights (the inner set turning with the steering) was introduced.

"Not all that" my backside.

Scaff

IMADreamer · Aug 1, 2006

Anyone who doesn't vote for the Veyron is not a real man. lol

The DS may be important to French history, but the Veyron is important to automotive history. It was a bold statement by the parent company in order to revive the old Bugatti name and show the world that they could indeed build a top notch super car. Never before and never again will we see a company do something like this, reports are that they are losing almost 4 million dollars a car when they build these. When again do you think a company will take a lose just to prove a point?

TsLeng · Aug 1, 2006

DS.

The citroen DS back in its days were many time more of a technological feat than the veyron now.

Scaff · Aug 1, 2006

IMADreamer
Anyone who doesn't vote for the Veyron is not a real man. lol

The DS may be important to French history, but the Veyron is important to automotive history. It was a bold statement by the parent company in order to revive the old Bugatti name and show the world that they could indeed build a top notch super car. Never before and never again will we see a company do something like this, reports are that they are losing almost 4 million dollars a car when they build these. When again do you think a company will take a lose just to prove a point?

With just about every 'halo' model made and sold.

The Veyron (much as I love it) is a car than has very little real impact on the entire world of the car, yes its stupidly fast in every sense of the word. Yet already cars are starting to knock on it door in that regard, it does remain to be seen if they will beat it, but I would also add that Bugatti have remained very closed as far as in-depth independent testing goes and I'd like to see a bit more of that before crowning it the best French car.

The DS on the other hand was (as has been said) even more of a techno-fest at its launch, seen by the very fact that a lot of the features of the car are only now finding the way onto other cars. That makes parts ofthe thinking behind it valid even today, 50 years after its launch. Will we honestly be able to say that about the Veyron?

One could argue that the Veyron is the product of vast amounts of money being constantly throwen at a problem until (very late) it was fixed, the DS is a product of vast amounts of skill in design and engineering being put into place on a relatively tight budget (remember this was only 10 or so years after the end of WW2 - imagine what kind of a state France was in).

The Veyron is important to Super/Hypercar history, but the DS laughes in its face as it 'pulls' on its Gauloises and wafts off down the Champs Elysees. Happy in the knowledge that its the car that was important to automotive history.

Regards

Scaff

Poverty · Aug 1, 2006

TsLeng
DS.

The citroen DS back in its days were many time more of a technological feat than the veyron now.

not really, people could replicate the DS in theyre garage now if they wanted to. 100 years from now I doubt someone could build a veyron in the garage.

The DS just stuck together loads of different technology that was generally available, and developed for the war.

Scaff · Aug 1, 2006

Poverty
not really, people could replicate the DS in theyre garage now if they wanted to. 100 years from now I doubt someone could build a veyron in the garage.

The DS just stuck together loads of different technology that was generally available, and developed for the war.

Have you every seen or worked on the Hydropneumatic suspension?

Its very complex and certainly not a system that anyone would want to work on in a garage at home (and as the former owner of a BX TZD I know this first hand).

That aside you could use the same argument on the winners of both previous rounds (in fact you would have a stronger argument with both of them), the simple fact of the matter is that DS hearalded technology that is only now finding its way onto certain cars.

It certainly did not stick together bits of technology that was generally availiable, that is however an argument I would say you could use in regard to the Veyron. A lot of its race-car technology and you could also say that the challenge and the money was spent in ensuring it would last under road car conditions.

I mean Citroen did not just invent the Hydropneumatic suspension for the DS, but had to develop an entirely new form of hydralic fluid for use in it. A system so far ahead of its time that Rolls Royce licenced and used it, so did a few others including a number of military vehicles, this was however after the DS not before.

I personally think you are seriously underestimating the impact of this car on its contempary market, an impact that is still being felt today. Merc have been making a big deal about headlamps that follow you around a bend to aid visability, the DS had them 50 years ago.

And who's to say that in 100 years time you could not make a Veryon in your garage?

Regards

Scaff

Poverty · Aug 1, 2006

Those followy round the bendy headlapms on the DS were flawed, the ride was comfortable but flawed, and the adjusting suspension thingy was found in mercs before the DS.

TsLeng · Aug 1, 2006

Poverty
Those followy round the bendy headlapms on the DS were flawed, the ride was comfortable but flawed, and the adjusting suspension thingy was found in mercs before the DS.

Flawed in what sense?

Adjusting suspension in mercedes? Which model? What kind of technology?

Scaff · Aug 1, 2006

Poverty
Those followy round the bendy headlapms on the DS were flawed, the ride was comfortable but flawed, and the adjusting suspension thingy was found in mercs before the DS.

The Merc version is not the same as the Citroen's, its a far, far simpler approach than provides neither the ride nor comfort of the DS. It was also not invented or used by Merc prior to Citroen, Citroen invented and patented the damn thing. Merc later licenced a varient of the Citroen system for use in there own cars, which would be rather a strange thing to do if you already had your own system (as you claim).

This suspension was so flawed that Rolls Royce licenced the system in its complete form and used it for decades on the entire range.

As someone who has ridden in a number of DS's the ride is anything but flawed, the ride is perfect for what it was developed for, which is comfort. In that case the Veyrons suspension is flawed as its not comfortable enough, a ludicrous argument.

The lights were not without problems (but then nor were many cars of the time - the winner of the Italian poll had pop-up headlamps so prone to failure that most owners never took the cars out at night), that still does not take anything away from the fact that most major manufacturers are only now getting around to fitting them, and are trying to claim it as 'new'.

If what you say was true then why do designers and engineers still talk of the DS as one of the single most important cars in the history of the motor industry. On the other hand the Veyron quite simply has not been around long enough to be judged in this way, nor have Bugatti given free enough access to the cars for any magazine to fully independently test it.

I have no doubt that its an amazing car, but if this is the case then why are Bugatti (or rather the VAG board) being so protective of it?

Regards

Scaff

Poverty · Aug 1, 2006

I can agree with that, the ride wasnt flawed because it did what it was designed for (comfort) and it was a very important car.

Famine · Aug 1, 2006

Scaff
the Veyron quite simply has not been around long enough to be judged in this way, nor have Bugatti given free enough access to the cars for any magazine to fully independently test it.

I have no doubt that its an amazing car, but if this is the case then why are Bugatti (or rather the VAG board) being so protective of it?

It's sooooo good, that anyone who has one and has it crashed by a magazine will order another one, and VAG will have to take a £4.2 million hit making it...

Or something.

VOTE for Best French Car

VOTE FOR BEST FRENCH CAR

Alpine A110

Alpine A310

Bugatti EB110

Bugatti Veyron

Citroen 2CV

Citroen C6

Citroen DS

Citroen Saxo

Citroen SM

Citroen Traction Avant

Citroen Xantia

Citroen XM

Homell Berlinette

MVS Venturi Atlantique 300 Biturbo

Peugeot 106 Rallye

Peugeot 205 GTi

Peugeot 206

Peugeot 306 GTi-6

Peugeot 406 Coupe

Peugeot 407

Peugeot 504

Peugeot 607

Renault 5 (Any Variant)

Renault Clio (Any Variant)

Renault Espace

Renault Megane

Super-Cool Since 2013

Super-Cool Since 2013

Karma Chameleon

Super-Cool Since 2013

Karma Chameleon

Salut Gilles

Code Red

Salut Gilles

GTP Editor, GTPEDIA Author

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