Dfp? G25?
- Thread starter JPBPoway
- 127 comments
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- 1,794
- BreakerOhio
I've been trying to get on the servers to get the demo, but no luck. I can verify that when I use my DFP for GT4 on the PS3 I am having similar lack of force feedback response. Especially noticable in the countersteering feedback. Like what Sky did, I hook my ps2 back up with GT4 to make sure my wheel was still functional and it was. Some kind of driver updates probably will be needed to fix the DFP's lack of force feedback on the GT4 and possible GTHD as others here have already somewhat confirmed. Hopefully tomorrow the demo is back up on the servers for download.
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i was reading about the f1 game and gt they wont have any force feedback untill the game is done.
or sumthing like that. no one was clear but i hope this sheads light on this subject.
or sumthing like that. no one was clear but i hope this sheads light on this subject.
I dunno about you but I love my g25 waaaay over my DFP. Well for one thing I had to get a new wheel anyway because the pot meters for my gas were messed up and i'd never get full throttle. Also the leather steering wheel on the g25 doesnt give me blisters like the DFP >.> But it's all preference really...
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No way dude. I've noticed that the G25's force feedback response is very fast compared to dfp. Anyway i tried the g25 on the ps3 and its the same result as the dfp. No FF. Also you might want to go read up on sony and immersion. I believe its because of them there is no ff. Supposedly so im not 100% sure.
- 140
- HighPSi
on the ps3 forum i frequent they claim FF does work but has to be setup properly.. one user went as far to say that he thought it was stronger in the JPN demo over the US demo. Sony added DFP and other wheel support with the 1.30 or 1.31 update I know that much..as for the Immersion issue I believe it was over rumble not FF..?
The DFPs can be had on eBay for around what they go for retail if you shop it.. I found the G25 at page computers for 248 shipped to my door.. This will be my first wheel so I don't know if it's overkill but I do have some experience with wheels and feel I could excel once properly converted. I'd really like to play GT4 over again with a wheel not to mention attempt the drift trials in GTHD.
I'm still kinda undecuded at this point.. Maybe it'd be best to buy a DFP now and wait for something better from Logitech/Polyphony in a years time? What's the life cycle on a wheel? How long do they usually stick around per generation? The G25 just came out.. is a year about right? Do you think they'll go as "all out" as they did on a the G25 for a GTHD inspired wheel possibly allienating the average consumer or not?
- 609
- Aliso Viejo, CA
- Renown787B
Hello everyone.
Let's all be very clear on this. Right now Force Feedback will not work at all in any wheel that you have or are currently thinking about getting for your PS3. Anything you hear about guys making theirs work by voodoo magic are completely wrong and are messing with you. While most of the current wheels like the G25 and DFP work on the PS3 they just simply won't use FF. Imersion holds the patents to the technology and Sony lost the lawsuit over this earlier this year. Microsoft lost as well when they were sued and since have paid their fines and paid licensing for the use of their patents. Sony (as a company) being who they are just won't concede that they lost and use technology (rightfully or luckily) patented first by Immersion. There was a recent survey of gamers recently that had one interesting fact. 53% of gamers who bought a PS3 had no idea the controllers would be rumbleless. Now they are finding out that stuff that does have FF or rumble won't work either.
As far as third parties being able to make controllers and games that have FF or rumble may certainly do so. It just better not be able to do so on a PS3 because it still has to be going through the PS3 console and that console legally has no right to use the rumble or FF technology. I'm sure this is being debated with the Sony and Immersion people in their battle, but sadly we just won't see FF or rumble in PS3's until Sony concedes.
So, in the end it is the people at Sony in their stubborness that have given you an inferior product to what was or is currently available in the PS2 in terms of Force Feedback. I don't know about you guys, but I play GT4 allot and with a G25 wheel now and it's just awesome. To think that GT5 will probably be a thing of beauty once it comes out in 2008 and that FF is unlikely to be around is just a clear shame and I for one am feircely disapointed. Sorry for the rant, but I'm bummed at this.
Cheers
Let's all be very clear on this. Right now Force Feedback will not work at all in any wheel that you have or are currently thinking about getting for your PS3. Anything you hear about guys making theirs work by voodoo magic are completely wrong and are messing with you. While most of the current wheels like the G25 and DFP work on the PS3 they just simply won't use FF. Imersion holds the patents to the technology and Sony lost the lawsuit over this earlier this year. Microsoft lost as well when they were sued and since have paid their fines and paid licensing for the use of their patents. Sony (as a company) being who they are just won't concede that they lost and use technology (rightfully or luckily) patented first by Immersion. There was a recent survey of gamers recently that had one interesting fact. 53% of gamers who bought a PS3 had no idea the controllers would be rumbleless. Now they are finding out that stuff that does have FF or rumble won't work either.
As far as third parties being able to make controllers and games that have FF or rumble may certainly do so. It just better not be able to do so on a PS3 because it still has to be going through the PS3 console and that console legally has no right to use the rumble or FF technology. I'm sure this is being debated with the Sony and Immersion people in their battle, but sadly we just won't see FF or rumble in PS3's until Sony concedes.
So, in the end it is the people at Sony in their stubborness that have given you an inferior product to what was or is currently available in the PS2 in terms of Force Feedback. I don't know about you guys, but I play GT4 allot and with a G25 wheel now and it's just awesome. To think that GT5 will probably be a thing of beauty once it comes out in 2008 and that FF is unlikely to be around is just a clear shame and I for one am feircely disapointed. Sorry for the rant, but I'm bummed at this.
Cheers
- 140
- HighPSi
so you're calling all those people liars? you think they're trying to fool everyone? who are you trying to kid..? What happened to Sony in court does not effect Polyphony from including FF support in their games or 3rd party hardware manufacturers from licensing and utilizing FF in their hardware which is the case here. The G25 supports FF and will work with any game that supports FF. It's that simple. Now if Sony wanted to make a wheel then they could not include FF in it similar to how they cannot make controllers with rumble.. now if a logitech wanted to, they could. understand how it works now? 
A Friend of mine from switzerland has the Japanese Demo running on a Japanese PS3 an the DFP works fine including FF and 900 Degree. I know for sure he is not a liar! That would be a big shame for Sony or PD if FF wouldn´t be implemented in the Future. All driving Wheels live up with the FF. I hope there is only a software Bug around and they will fix that with an update in the near future!
greets
relio
greets
relio
so you're calling all those people liars? you think they're trying to fool everyone? who are you trying to kid..? What happened to Sony in court does not effect Polyphony from including FF support in their games or 3rd party hardware manufacturers from licensing and utilizing FF in their hardware which is the case here. The G25 supports FF and will work with any game that supports FF. It's that simple. Now if Sony wanted to make a wheel then they could not include FF in it similar to how they cannot make controllers with rumble.. now if a logitech wanted to, they could. understand how it works now?
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!! Took the words right out of my mouth bro!
FMW you have been O-W-N-E-D big time, pal! Where do you get off trying to misinform people in this thread? You obviously have no idea what you're talking about regarding FFB and Sony. Because if you did, you'd know the lawsuit that does not...I repeat....DOES NOT prohibit Polyphony, Namco, EA or any other third party from including FF support in their PS3 games or 3rd party hardware manufacturers from licensing the technology, just like my man 2JZFAN has stated. If you don't believe me, call Immersion themselves and speak to a guy named Greg. I bought a PCB from him directly for my custom made Happ wheel(more on this in a few days) and spoke to him about the issue, and he stated exactly what I and 2JZFAN are stating right now.
Plus, trying playing Need For Speed carbon with the DFP wheel....I've read it works 100% JUST LIKE IF IT WAS ON PS2! Forces, strong jolts, return to centering, etc.
So please man, do a little research before typing out a bunch of misinformed comments.
The US version of this demo probably does not support FF properly because it was most likely rushed out in time for Christmas eve. The fact that the wheel is even recognized but doesn't behave properly is a very strong indicator of this.
I downloaded the japanese version a day after the guys in switzerland - I feel that PD changed the demo version for the japanese store. The japanese version I have does not have the extra option for adjusting the FF and the circle button is switched with the X one - which is very unusual for japanese games. I' m not calling anybody a liar - I asume there was a FF supporting version out early on which isn't availible any more.
I'm one of the guys from switzerland. I think pol37 is right with his perception about the different versions of the game. I downloaded the demo in the very first hours when it was available in the Japanese PlayStation store. Some hours later, I also downloaded the version from the U.S. store. The Japanese version includes support for ForceFeedback with the DFP, but the U.S. version doesn't.
So, to clear things up, we made some pics of the two versions to show the differences in the options menu. We don't speak Japanese, so we are not sure, what those two additional parameters are for, but it is very likely that they have to do with the ForceFeedback.
The first two shots are taken from the Japanese, the second two from the U.S. version we own.
Hodri a.k.a. Jordan at GTRP
czsimo
So, to clear things up, we made some pics of the two versions to show the differences in the options menu. We don't speak Japanese, so we are not sure, what those two additional parameters are for, but it is very likely that they have to do with the ForceFeedback.
The first two shots are taken from the Japanese, the second two from the U.S. version we own.
Hodri a.k.a. Jordan at GTRP
czsimo
Attachments
- 609
- Aliso Viejo, CA
- Renown787B
Hey man. If I'm wrong I'm wrong. I have no shame in admitting it. I'm just sharing what I've read in different forums including some of the comments made by some of the editors over at Gamespot. Just looking at the posts here guys are saying there is no FF as of now. If the guys in Japan are getting it, then bully for all of us. I just want the darn games to have it and for manufactures to stop releasing hardware (PS3's) before they're ready for mass consumption. Anyway, no matter how you cut it there seems to be allot of confusion on everything wheel related right now.
Though you've got to wonder why the F-1 game will be released with no FF support.
From Gamespot:
From a control standpoint, we had a chance to try out the Sixaxis steering control option and--good news--it works pretty well. As in other PS3 racing games such as the upcoming MotorStorm, you steer the car by twisting the Sixaxis controller left or right. It's much easier to use the Sixaxis steering controls in conjunction with the right analog stick for gas and brake, as opposed to the X and square buttons. Also, we couldn't find a button setup for manual gearboxes that appealed to us, though perhaps with a bit more practice that could change. The game will also support several Logitech USB wheels (including the recently released G25), and while the game won't support force feedback for any of them, at the very least it's nice to have control options when playing the game.
Why would you release a modern F-1 driving game with no FF? That's all I'm saying.
Though you've got to wonder why the F-1 game will be released with no FF support.
From Gamespot:
From a control standpoint, we had a chance to try out the Sixaxis steering control option and--good news--it works pretty well. As in other PS3 racing games such as the upcoming MotorStorm, you steer the car by twisting the Sixaxis controller left or right. It's much easier to use the Sixaxis steering controls in conjunction with the right analog stick for gas and brake, as opposed to the X and square buttons. Also, we couldn't find a button setup for manual gearboxes that appealed to us, though perhaps with a bit more practice that could change. The game will also support several Logitech USB wheels (including the recently released G25), and while the game won't support force feedback for any of them, at the very least it's nice to have control options when playing the game.
Why would you release a modern F-1 driving game with no FF? That's all I'm saying.
- 140
- HighPSi
well it might be because F1 is published by SCE and developed by SCE Liverpool.. in short it's being made BY Sony. It could be they'll still a bit soar about it or that they simply CANNOT include it.. I mean M$ is forcing Turn 10 to not support FF even though they originally said they would.. damn M$ wheel! damn you! 
don't download the 1.1 japanese version of the GTHD title if u have FF in the old version - u will lose the FF option. I can confirm that - for me this is a reaction to the immersion lawsuite which was lost by sony http://www.gamespot.com/news/6108298.html
this are pictures of the new Japanese. version
you see clear that the FF option is missing and it looks now like the U.S. version
sony stated on the GTHD site the new 1.1 version will remove certain bugs - but it will replace the old Japanese. version and the FF option of the game is gone - this is a very phony way how sony tries to remove FF out of the Demo and is for me a direct result of the loss in the immersion lawsuite - I think that all the people who spend a lot of money, not to mention the waiting in lines for the PS3 should be treated better than that and - deserve rumble function and FF !!! sony play fair
(if that does not make sense to you - please explain me why would they take the FF option out of the game, not released in the U.S from begin and later removed in the Japanese. version also - does someone remember the lambo in GT3 only in japan ... please don't tell me it has nothing to do with the lawsuite)
this are pictures of the new Japanese. version
you see clear that the FF option is missing and it looks now like the U.S. version
sony stated on the GTHD site the new 1.1 version will remove certain bugs - but it will replace the old Japanese. version and the FF option of the game is gone - this is a very phony way how sony tries to remove FF out of the Demo and is for me a direct result of the loss in the immersion lawsuite - I think that all the people who spend a lot of money, not to mention the waiting in lines for the PS3 should be treated better than that and - deserve rumble function and FF !!! sony play fair
(if that does not make sense to you - please explain me why would they take the FF option out of the game, not released in the U.S from begin and later removed in the Japanese. version also - does someone remember the lambo in GT3 only in japan ... please don't tell me it has nothing to do with the lawsuite)
- 4,334
In reply,
Theres nothing 3rd party about Polyphony Digitaleven then just because youre a 3rd party developer, youre not exempt from Immersions patent(s). It affects everyone (hardware, software); an example is Logitech where its DFP boxes have an Immersion TouchSense logo on them. Logitech has been licensed by Immersion to use its technologies.Polyphony Digitals Official Website
In the Japanese 1.0 version of GTHD Concept, was force feedback enabled by default, or did you have to manually enable it?
Hodri, translated to the best of my abilities.
Considering that F1 CE doesnt feature FF, and now its removal from GTHD Concept, were not going to see it on the PS3 unless someone is prepared to pay for it someway or another. As the Senior Vice President of SCEI, I can imagine Kazunori Yamauchis heavily petitioning that Sony pays the licensingGT needs force feedback otherwise its physics are going to be worth absolutely nothing. Period.
Damn you Sony. Oh, and Immersion.
- 140
- HighPSi
First of all damn Immersion not Sony.. Immersion beat them to the punch patenting the technology in the US. Did you read what I posted before you? I mean did you even read it even just a little bit
Anyway, it's up to the software developers if they license and code for FF support not Sony. If capcom wants FF in a title they take it up with Immersion. If a consumer buys this capcom game it's up to him to buy a wheel that also supports FF. This has nothing to do with Sony as they only make the console. Now if Sony was making hardware with rumble or FF then that'd be a different story. 👍They have to pay immersion if not there will be not FF for GTHD or GT5 ... 6, 7
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6108298.html
sony was anticipating this result - that is why they came out with the sixaxis without rumble, would be expensive after the release to stop production of rumble sixaxis and replacing them with rumble less sixaxis
... I would say damn sony & immersion 👎
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6108298.html
sony was anticipating this result - that is why they came out with the sixaxis without rumble, would be expensive after the release to stop production of rumble sixaxis and replacing them with rumble less sixaxis
... I would say damn sony & immersion
👎
