2008 Subaru Legacy GT 2.5 Limted: She's a keeper.

  • Thread starter Pako
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Pako

Pako

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I'm currently looking into these three family sport sedans. My company is taking away my company rig so now I need to find a rid under 30K, preferably 25K.

Subaru Legacy 2.5 GT Spec.B 243HP, AWD
Mazda Mazdaspeed 6 270HP, AWD
Chevy Malibu LTZ or SS 214HP or 240HP, FWD

I really like the trunk space of the Malibu for hauling bass gear. Just don't know about the other two. So do you guys have any suggestions?

Thanks.

EDITED:
I ended up taking delivery of a Subaru Legacy 2.5 GT (non-Spec.B) on 08/02/2007. You can see the pics here. Thanks for all the help guys.
 
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Well the differences between the two Japanese models and that of the Chevrolet are pretty much night and day. The Legacy is going to be harder to locate, as I believe the Spec.B models were to be in numbers fewer than 2000 in the United States. Furthermore, the Mazdaspeed6 has been canceled for 2008, so you'd have to quickly find an '07 model to get one on the cheap... I've never seen one around here, and I'd assume they'd be even less common near you in Montana.

The Malibu SS, while a pretty decent car, doesn't do much to live-up to the SS name. You're pretty much getting a Hi-Po OHV V6 with a modestly tuned suspension, over-sized rubber, and a pretty nice looking body-kit. It isn't a bad car, as a matter of fact its one of the better cars Chevrolet makes in some aspects, but as far as mid-$20K sedans are concerned at GM, its far from taking the cake.

Thusly, I introduce the Saturn Aura XR

Well-equipped models can be had for right around the $25K mark, complete with a 3.6L DOHC V6 (252 BHP) and a six-speed automatic (with manual override). Both the body lines and the chassis tune is pretty much taken straight off the European-only Opel/Vauxhall Vectra, the only difference being that the Aura actually rides on a longer version of the chassis to offer more room (more than the Chevrolet Malibu, which shares its dimensions with the Euros). Depending on who you ask (magazine wise), it has been said that the Aura XR comes off as a better deal than the Toyota Camry SE V6, being a better balance between comfort and sport, and not having that "on-off" feeling to the car.

The biggest drawback to the Saturn that I can see would be that there wouldn't be a dealer close to you (I hear the network gets shoddy in some parts of the country), but it would be perfectly serviceable at any local Chevrolet or Pontiac dealer.

Otherwise, there is always the Ford Fusion, which is actually a halfway decent car, and the Dodge Avenger, which seems to be somewhat decent on occasion.

I'd vote for the Saturn, but then again, thats never much of a surprise with me.
 
I don't know about Spec B version, but the standard Legacy GT has plenty of pep and was fun to drive. Fairly roomy and with a decent sized trunk, as well. The one I drove had a very stiff clutch but an effortless shifter, so it would take a little getting used to. They may not all be like that. But handling and power were more than adequate, and AWD would be nice for your winters, that's for sure.
 
I have access to both a Spec.B and a Speed6. The Spec.B is around 33k (local) and the Speed6 is a dealer demo for around 25K based out of Utah. The Saturn Aura XR is an interesting find and has peaked my interest for sure.
 
I like the Legacy myself. I drove an '05 wagon a couple of years ago and was fairly impressed with how refined it was and how classy the interior was. They really spent a lot of money there. It handled pretty decently too, but with that characteristic long suspension travel and ample (though not entirely excessive) body motion typical of non-STI Subarus. The seats were good, steering was excellent and power was plenty adequate.

It was like a grown up WRX. Unforunately, the rear seats and cargo space were a little tight for our needs.

I don't know anything about the Malibu, but I would definately take the Legacy over the Mazda. The MS6 might outpower it and maybe even outhandle it, but I drove a 6i when it first came out and the Legacy is a better all around package. The 6 is a little loud, a little rough riding, has a nice cockpit design but cheap materials. 6 is definately bigger, though so if space is a prime consideration, you probably want to scrutinize the Legacy.

I would also see if you think the Spec.B is worth the premium over the GT Limited... the suspension tweaks sound nice (I haven't driven a Spec.B) but it seems like a pretty big price jump for what amounts to fairly minor changes. I bet you could get throw a set of Cobb Tuning sway bars on a GT Limited and fix the body control shortcomings and pocket the 3-4 grand.


M
 
(The Pontiac G8 should start in the mid-high $20K range with the 260 BHP V6, a little more than $30K with the 362 BHP V8...)
 
I just looked at the Spec.B again as well as the standard GT model. Both back seats fold down giving me full access to the truck space. This is vital for my bass gear needs. I didn't know it did this and helps me lean more towards the Legacy. As far as the GT vs. Spec.B, is the Navigation, stiffer suspension, and larger wheels, 6-speed trans, and rear spoiler worth $5K? I imagine I could always put my own spoiler on for $500, skip the Navigation system (not too interested anyways) and if I really wanted to get crazy, put some suspension mods (around $1,000 from what I hear).

The 6-speed would be nice, but I could live with a 5-speed.
The larger wheels look cool, but the 17" wheels still look sharp and still have that tight racing profile.
The Nav system is just an extra $2k add on...., not worth it.
The spoiler looks great, I would definitely spend the money and get one put on the GT if I go that route.

I looked again at the Malibu...., the reviews just plain suck. I would be afraid of the thing falling apart. The safety ratings of the Subaru are the best in it's class.

I'll have to give it a little test drive today and report my findings on the Legacy GT, and Spec.B
 
Navigation is one of those things I wasn't interested in at all until I bought a car that had it - it's quite handy, actually, and depending on the control setup, can be nice for controlling other systems. The TSX, for instance, offers complete hands-free voice control of HVAC and audio. Take the time and play with it during the test before automatically deciding against it.
 
:lol: I think I might be able to talk him down on the Spec.B. It's a 2007 model and when I asked him to pop the trunk, there were cob webs all over the rear end. My remark was "you don't move a lot of these do you?" The main difference between the '07 and the '08 model is the telescoping steering wheel available on the '08 and the two tone leather interior on the '07. The went to a solid on the '08.

I won't completely discount the Navigation.... It would be nice a few times out of the year.
 
Well, I tried the Legacy GT this morning.... Wife in the passenger seat, daughter in the back seat (child seat) and salesman in the other rear seat. It was the 5-speed manual version with moon roof option, 6-disc CD changer, Sirius ready. All leather.... Nice ride. Plenty of rip and snort. There was body roll but it was tighter than I expected for being the non-Spec model. It was nice. The back seats were roomier than I thought they would be and both back seats do fold down for full access to the trunk. MSRP is 29,500 for that trim....he quoted me a even 28,000 with a little effort. Honestly, I would think they have more room to play with....just not sure how much discount I should hold out for. Is someone here access to Subaru dealer info that would tell me what their incentives are from a dealer stand point? I'm sure they get kick backs from every car they sell. Even if they sell at invoices or under, I can only assume they get rebates back on every sell or volume of sale.
 
-> Between the 'Speed6 and the LGT spec.B. I'd pick the LGT hands down. Although the LGT looks a lot more conservative compared to the MS6, but Subaru has been making AWD as long as I remember. Plus the LGT has a better 50/50 weight distribution unlike the computer-dependent, front-heavy MS6. And lookie at this link:

From Motor Trend

(click on image)

(:
 
Well that article certainly helps......

I am pretty much sold on the Legacy GT. The Spec.B, although would be cool....., doesn't seem like a practical upgrade for $5000 and when I'm trying to keep my payments under $400, it just takes it over the top in terms of monthly payments.

The only question in my mind at this point is to go Automatic or Standard. The standard was a little jumpy, partly due to my driving...in time I'm sure it would smoothen out. The automatic offers paddle shifters on the steering wheel. From what I've read, shipping up is smooth, but jerky on down shifts........
 
Looks + performance = Mazdaspeed6
Practicality + more reliability = Legacy GT

I love both cars. Though I'd choose the MS6 purely because I'm biased for FoMoCo and its subsidiaries. Though I'd take any G8 V8 model other either of them.
 
Pako
Well that article certainly helps......

I am pretty much sold on the Legacy GT. The Spec.B, although would be cool....., doesn't seem like a practical upgrade for $5000 and when I'm trying to keep my payments under $400, it just takes it over the top in terms of monthly payments.

The only question in my mind at this point is to go Automatic or Standard. The standard was a little jumpy, partly due to my driving...in time I'm sure it would smoothen out. The automatic offers paddle shifters on the steering wheel. From what I've read, shipping up is smooth, but jerky on down shifts........
Click to expand...

^ If you need more space, although you have to sacrifice those spec.B goodies, you can opt for the LGT wagon! :)

-> I'd go for the M/T, I know (as a WRX owner) that all Subies have ultra heavy clutch compared to most cars, it really takes practice to smoothen things out, but the reward will be ha huge factor. Just ease-off your clutch and get to know the trigger point in an open but controlled space (ie. parking lot). I had that experience when I got my '04 WRX from my terrible Protege5 (god, I still hate that car). :)
 
Pako
The only question in my mind at this point is to go Automatic or Standard.
Click to expand...

You will certainly smooth out over time.

Only reasons I can think of getting something like a GT Limited with autotragic would be if you do a substantial amount of stop and go in your commute. I'm going to hazard based on where you live, the answer to that is going to be no. ;)

..Or if you get a screaming deal on a lot queen the dealer's itching to get rid of and its auto.

Do you have nice driving roads around where you live? (I imagine the answer is going to be yes) Given the choice, the manual is going to be way more interesting.


M
 
///M-Spec
Or if you get a screaming deal on a lot queen the dealer's itching to get rid of and its auto.
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It's usually the manuals that end up as lot lizards because everybody wants autoboxes.

Pako, Doug DeMuro is the only person on the planet who actually uses the 'autostick' feature on an automatic trans regularly. The rest of us play with it for 20 minutes when we first get the car, get bored, and just stick it in D. Get an auto if you would prefer it, but don't expect to use the paddles much.

I'd get the manul, myself, but I don't know if anybody else might need to drive the car, and if that would make a difference.

LGT wagons are cool, too - very sharp.

For a 2007 model stickered at $29,500, I'd offer him $26,000 and be willing to walk (that day, anyway). I bet you can buy it for under $27,000.
 
I would agree with the paddle shifter 'novelty' wearing off rather quickly. I asked my wife if she would be prefer stick or auto, she said stick....(bless her little heart). :)

I think I'll let him stew today and offer him $26k tomorrow equiped with an offer from a dealer a few hundred miles away....(I love the internet).
 
@Duke,

So what do you think I should do? Offer him $26k tomorrow and walk away if need be (I doubt he'll take that offer) and go back on Saturday and and let him counter offer?
 
Duke
It's usually the manuals that end up as lot lizards because everybody wants autoboxes.

Pako, Doug DeMuro is the only person on the planet who actually uses the 'autostick' feature on an automatic trans regularly. The rest of us play with it for 20 minutes when we first get the car, get bored, and just stick it in D. Get an auto if you would prefer it, but don't expect to use the paddles much.

I'd get the manul, myself, but I don't know if anybody else might need to drive the car, and if that would make a difference.

LGT wagons are cool, too - very sharp.

For a 2007 model stickered at $29,500, I'd offer him $26,000 and be willing to walk (that day, anyway). I bet you can buy it for under $27,000.
Click to expand...

Duke, on the matter of Auto boxes with the manumatic mode, I have to say the Subaru GT's have it right. I've driven my Dad's 05 Turbo Outback XT Wagon alot with the sport automatic, and its a very nice transmission. I left it in drive most of the time, but it was quite responsive when you use the buttons on the wheel. Hell, it even held it in gear and let it bounce off the limiter. Its a pretty smooth tranny I say, and didn't not notice any awkward down shifts at all.

It kinda converted me to wanting an Auto in my next daily driver. People that use it all the time though are kinda crazy, its just annoying sometimes in busy traffic. But a wonderful option if you do want to carve a back road (or slide on some gravel). Personally, I would go with the Auto in the Subie, but I also have a weekend and track day car for pure fun driving.

My dad got his wagon last year for about $30k, but it has every option but navigation, so I'm sure that added some pricing. The wagon form feels great, and is nice for lugging stuff around.

And I agree with Duke's advice fully, you should be able to get it down there. If not, there are other Legacy GT's in the world ;)
 
^ Based on my experience on the standard Outback, while it doesn't have those "flappies" on their steering wheel. The shifting action on A/T is STILL too slow to respond even I do a sport mode on, which I can shift gears manually it is still unforgivenly slow. :indiff:

-> I've tried all types of A/T that has M/T capability, but all of than failed me including the X5 4.6 and the Audi S4. So I might one day drive a DSG-equipped Rabbit/Golf/Jetta GTI/GLI or R32, to see if it lives up to the magazines over-hypeness. :)
 
People tend to forget that they are in fact slushboxes, and it isn't as though there is an "instant" response when you press the button by comparison to shifting it yourself (true manual), or in an automated manual such as the DSG in Volkswagen's line.

IMO, I'd go for the stick if thats what you and your wife would want. They add a whole extra layer of fun to the car, IMO, and keeps me busy even on what would normally be a boring drive. Furthermore (not that this is completely relevant), cars equipped with manual transmissions are stolen far less often than that of cars with slushboxes, so that may be a factor to consider as well.

@ The throttle issue: You said it was on the stick, right? I seem to recall Car and Driver saying that the issue seemed to be fixed when they drove the model with the slushbox, but I can't confirm for absolute certainty.

Still, $30K is a lot of money to play with these days, so make sure you consider all your options. I know I'd be tempted to fall in love with the first good car, but there may be a better option out there as well. The VW Passat 3.6 may be worth a look, as well as cars like the Saturn Aura XR, possibly the Honda Accord EX V6 as well. There are a lot of really good options in this segment, so don't be afraid to poke around. Mentioning that you're considering the Subaru at some dealers may get some interesting reactions, but my guess would be that VW would be happy to sell you a Passat 3.6 4MOTION for a decent price. Well, if you consider a $29K invoice a decent start point...
 
Pako
@Duke,

So what do you think I should do? Offer him $26k tomorrow and walk away if need be (I doubt he'll take that offer) and go back on Saturday and and let him counter offer?
Click to expand...
That's what I would do. And don't be afraid to dicker against his next proposal, either, or start pitching for free extras like all-weather mat packages or stuff if he says he can't budge on his counteroffer.

I've never bought a car without walking at least once, and I usually end up very close to my own predecided "buy it now" price. Remember, he wants your money more than you need his car, and it's not you who's losing money every day it sits on the lot.

Good luck!
Azuremen
Duke, on the matter of Auto boxes with the manumatic mode, I have to say the Subaru GT's have it right. I've driven my Dad's 05 Turbo Outback XT Wagon alot with the sport automatic, and its a very nice transmission. I left it in drive most of the time, but it was quite responsive when you use the buttons on the wheel. Hell, it even held it in gear and let it bounce off the limiter. Its a pretty smooth tranny I say, and didn't not notice any awkward down shifts at all.
Click to expand...
I agree that they have it right - my wife's TSX (a slushbox I've raved about here before) has a fantastic autostick setup. It works great! The thing is, it's just programmed to be a great autobox even when it totally shifts itself, and there is no need for me to override it even when I'm driving the car fairly hard.
 
Thanks for the good advice Duke. I'll be stopping by there this morning.... I could hardly sleep last night, it was fun to drive, seems like a well put together car with some nice features and enough spank to keep my juices flowing but it is a lot of money so I'm a little nervous about the purchase.
 
YSSMAN
People tend to forget that they are in fact slushboxes, and it isn't as though there is an "instant" response when you press the button by comparison to shifting it yourself (true manual), or in an automated manual such as the DSG in Volkswagen's line.
Click to expand...

Let's race - my automatic A4 2.8 versus a manual. They have the same number of gears. I guarantee my automatic's shifts faster and more precisely at peak power than you ever would - I guarantee I'd win.
 
I'd say no. The Audi would lose a few pounds with the manual, furthermore have a less dramatic driveterrain loss as well. The folks you "race" either don't know how to drive stick properly, or don't know how to drive stick properly. I pick not knowing how to drive stick properly.

BTW: I've noticed this topic comes up near-constantly these days. Odd...

Automated slushboxes, personally speaking, are no substitute for the real thing. Sure, if I broke my leg or something it would be the obvious choice, but it is by no means the best choice if a manual (or an automated manual, DSG-type setup) is available. Its pretty much my personal opinion based on personal experiences, thats all I can say.

Doug, you're missing out on a lot by not knowing how to drive stick. You should at the very least give it a try, once.
 
M5Power
Let's race - my automatic A4 2.8 versus a manual. They have the same number of gears. I guarantee my automatic's shifts faster and more precisely at peak power than you ever would - I guarantee I'd win.
Click to expand...

ROFFLES!!

Sorry, but unless its a DSG, I can probably shift faster. And I also guarantee, from an engineering stand point, that it does not shift for peak power, but for a compromise of reliability and performance. Of course, there is also the extra power loss from the Auto and the additional weight.

Seriously Doug, learn stick. It will be good for you. :indiff:
 
Well, I opted for the M/T and drove home a new Legacy 2.5 GT. Silver with black leather interior. Additional options include:

Auto Dimming Rear View
Wiper and side mirror defrost
6 disc CD changer/MP3/WMA Stereo
XM installed (comes with 3 months)

I went back and talked them down another $1000 so with a sticker price of $29,598, I got it for $27,080. I took an extended lunch hour just getting to know the car a bit. I have a family trip to the west coast coming up so I can get some get some good brake in done before I really open it up. I'm still shaking from my purchase....but trust it was the best one and I feel really good about it.

Thanks guys for the help!

I'll post pics or something soon.

:cheers:
 
YSSMAN
I'd say no. The Audi would lose a few pounds with the manual, furthermore have a less dramatic driveterrain loss as well. The folks you "race" either don't know how to drive stick properly, or don't know how to drive stick properly. I pick not knowing how to drive stick properly.
Click to expand...

I love how whenever I beat someone in a more powerful car he tells me he's "learning" manual, and whenever I argue about this on the Internet with someone he tells me those people must not know how to drive manuals properly - but, of course, they could do better. Every time I get in a race with a manual which should beat me the exact same thing occurs: they walk away from the light, and then the second they hit their shift point I fly by them because they lose so much time shifting gears. If the race lasts long enough, they usually gain in second but then get destroyed again when it comes time to upshift into third. Every time.

From a recent article on this very subject: "it’s hard for anybody, even a professional driver or a talented amateur, to duplicate a given zero-to-60 mph." With a manual, of course - not so with an automatic. All I have to do is sit back and watch the other driver slowly upshift his way to three car lengths behind me. In fact, while I use Tiptronic 99% of the time, when I'm racing I don't even do that - the transmission knows when peak power comes a lot better than I do so I just put it in drive for those occaisions.

And, um, I know how to do drive a manual transmission.

Anyway...

Pako
Well, I opted for the M/T and drove home a new Legacy 2.5 GT. Silver with black leather interior.
Click to expand...

Congratulations Pako - can't wait to see some pics. Silver is the best color on the car. Is yours a 2008 or a 2007?
 

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