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[intoflatlines]

Thanks, to be clear, the following cars are not breaking the rule, correct?

But what about this shot? All 4 wheels inside the candy stripes, I don't think the game will serve a penalty, and the wheels technically aren't on the grass.

I think that last shot is a penalty according to OLR.

 

[Dragonwhisky]

Hot lapping the S2000 isn't bad. However I'm not looking forward to reverse-grid racing this with DS3 drivers in front of me. Turn 1 under braking is rough. The esses are great. The problem area in this car is Denger curve (turns 8-9). A quick tap of the brakes and turn in gets the car lined up to slide through the apex, but when you get back on the gas, it's easy to increase the slide too much.

The Hyundai isn't much fun. Any quick lap I put down involved 4 tires over the white line. Since I race with bumper cam its hard to know exactly where that is and the game doesn't penalize you when you have 4 wheels on the rumble strips. I assume we need two wheels inside the white line boundaries right?

The Rocket is still my favorite and after about 20 laps tonight I was able to work out some brake zones and gearing to get my first 1:29. Not sure if I'll pull that off during the race but knowing a few more turns a little better should give me some passing opportunities.

I'm going to have to disagree. The S2000 gets into T1 as good as or better than any other car I've driven at Suzuka. At turn 9, get all braking done before turn in, point it at the apex and start feeding in the gas, soon as you get it straight lined on the left side after exit, hammer it. The only problem areas I'm having are hitting the brake and turn in points at the hairpin and triangle chicane.

I raced from the bumper cam for about a year. I discovered, while it gets me closer to the road, it's just to limiting a view for being precise with car placement and knowing what's beside you. If I had a triples set up I'd be running in cockpit view. Lacking that, I run in roof cam. That view gives me a sense of where my fenders/front tires are, except on that Rocket, and I have buttons mapped on the wheel for left, right and rear view. Flicking to those views, for me anyway, is no different than scanning my mirrors in a real car, or even turning my head quickly to see what's there. I know there a few drivers that run in 3rd person view. I've never been able to control the car worth spit from that view.

 

[turnupdaheat]

Thanks, to be clear, the following cars are not breaking the rule, correct?

Yes, the car on the rumble strip is fine but the Takata NSX in the background is definately not!

But what about this shot? All 4 wheels inside the candy stripes, I don't think the game will serve a penalty, and the wheels technically aren't on the grass.

The green area is off track so 4 wheels in there is not legal.

 

[chatva]

Sometimes the Professional Drivers, in events all around the world, are given cars that just do not feel right, handle right, or (fill in the blank) ........ yet they learn the car, it's characteristics and "find a way to win". The Best seem to be always up front even if they don't win. Working "with the crew" has always had better results than kicking and screaming at the owner, etc. I'm just sayin'.

You nailed it, I almost always start out hating a combo, then I practice it and practice it and then start making progress, however it always seems that just as I become comfy with it, it's voted off!

 

[chatva]

Thanks, to be clear, the following cars are not breaking the rule, correct?

But what about this shot? All 4 wheels inside the candy stripes, I don't think the game will serve a penalty, and the wheels technically aren't on the grass.

Incorrect! Those a out of bounds.

 

[swg]

I think that last shot is a penalty according to OLR.

Not that my opinion matters, but all of those should be violations. Accourding to rules/regulations we're given however only the last one is. The track boundries in those images are clearly defined by white lines and in such a case (IMO) two wheels should be required within those track boundries. I would rather lose than drive in such a manner. Occassionally a driver may break those boundries on accident but it shouldnt be done intentionally. IMO its deliberate corner cutting.

 

[intoflatlines]

I'm going to have to disagree. The S2000 gets into T1 as good as or better than any other car I've driven at Suzuka. At turn 9, get all braking done before turn in, point it at the apex and start feeding in the gas, soon as you get it straight lined on the left side after exit, hammer it. The only problem areas I'm having are hitting the brake and turn in points at the hairpin and triangle chicane.

I raced from the bumper cam for about a year. I discovered, while it gets me closer to the road, it's just to limiting a view for being precise with car placement and knowing what's beside you. If I had a triples set up I'd be running in cockpit view. Lacking that, I run in roof cam. That view gives me a sense of where my fenders/front tires are, except on that Rocket, and I have buttons mapped on the wheel for left, right and rear view. Flicking to those views, for me anyway, is no different than scanning my mirrors in a real car, or even turning my head quickly to see what's there. I know there a few drivers that run in 3rd person view. I've never been able to control the car worth spit from that view.

I love the bumper cam. While you have no visibility laterally, I find that you can get very exact placement of your driving line with it. Also with it being so close to the ground it gives you the quickest visual cues of how your car is handling. I tried roof/hood cam and don't like it. The higher placement makes it harder for me to place the car where i want it. Cockpit cam is not realistic at all IMO. You see 2 steering wheels (yours and in-game), steering/shifting movement is delayed, and the windshield view is just too small. Sure, I get that when driving a real car the windshield is proportionally a small view, but on a 42" display sitting 6' from the screen it is very small. Exterior view I can never get used to. Great view of the track and surroundings but the camera is mushy.

 

[chuyler1]

I'm going to have to disagree. The S2000 gets into T1 as good as or better than any other car I've driven at Suzuka. At turn 9, get all braking done before turn in, point it at the apex and start feeding in the gas, soon as you get it straight lined on the left side after exit, hammer it. The only problem areas I'm having are hitting the brake and turn in points at the hairpin and triangle chicane.

I am able to do just that...but getting it wrong and giving it too much gas too early is difficult to recover from. In a pack of drivers racing bumper to bumper it will be difficult to be aggressive and set up for a pass before the hairpin. I really enjoy this car through the hairpin, perch it sideways and it catches about halfway and slingshots out. I was a little aggressive on the throttle a few times during practice but I was able to minimize the damage. I've never had a problem with the final chicane...but then again, its the one place I don't bother to make up time on entry, I just make sure I have the exit spot on.

I raced from the bumper cam for about a year. I discovered, while it gets me closer to the road, it's just to limiting a view for being precise with car placement and knowing what's beside you. If I had a triples set up I'd be running in cockpit view. Lacking that, I run in roof cam. That view gives me a sense of where my fenders/front tires are, except on that Rocket, and I have buttons mapped on the wheel for left, right and rear view. Flicking to those views, for me anyway, is no different than scanning my mirrors in a real car, or even turning my head quickly to see what's there. I know there a few drivers that run in 3rd person view. I've never been able to control the car worth spit from that view.

I wish I could have the instrument panel and rearview from bumper cam to use on hood cam. That would be ideal. I like having the analog RPM gauge and a mirror I don't have to press a button to look at. It does pose issues with learning the width of each car and occasionally it is very hard to see blind apexes, but I'm used to it.

Yes, the car on the rumble strip is fine but the Takata NSX in the background is definately not!

The green area is off track so 4 wheels in there is not legal.

Thanks turnupdaheat, it looks like I can be a little more aggressive in my next practice session and I'll be watching other drivers to make sure they keep it honest.

 

[intoflatlines]

Incorrect! Those a out of bounds.

How are those out of bounds?

B:
Two wheels (except when airborne, where the vertical projection of the car onto the track counts) must be in contact with the track/circuit which includes the rumble strips and footpaths, but not grassed areas.

F:
Any kind of rumble strip made of concrete, stone etc are part of the track unless otherwise stated.

 

[chuyler1]

Incorrect! Those a out of bounds.

Are you sure, the OLR seems to say otherwise...

B:
Two wheels (except when airborne, where the vertical projection of the car onto the track counts) must be in contact with the track/circuit which includes the rumble strips and footpaths, but not grassed areas.

F:
Any kind of rumble strip made of concrete, stone etc are part of the track unless otherwise stated.

Edit: LOL, beat me too it intoflatlines

 

[chatva]

How are those out of bounds?

I believe Two wheels must remain within the track boundary at all times!

In those images all four are beyond the the white line lines which is outside the track boundary, Correct?

 

[intoflatlines]

I believe Two wheels must remain within the track boundary at all times!

In those images all four are beyond the the white line lines which is outside the track boundary, Correct?

I think the white lines are only the track boundary if no rumble strips exist. If rumble strips are outside of the white lines, the strips serve as the boundary. I remember this topic of discussion from the Deep Forest Reverse combos...

 

[chatva]

I think the white lines are only the track boundary if no rumble strips exist. If rumble strips are outside of the white lines, the strips serve as the boundary. I remember this topic of discussion from the Deep Forest Reverse combos...

Good point dude, never thought that way, now I want clarification from the powers!

Is it the White line?
Or
Is it the rumble strip?

 

[chuyler1]

Honestly, I usually try to race with two wheels inside the white line boundaries. It's an easier rule to follow but I guess it is too hard to police since the game doesn't hand out penalties (by ghosting or upsetting the car chassis) when you take a line that is unrealistic in real life. This is what should be happening when drivers end up with 2 wheels in the dirt and 2 wheels on the candy stripes...

I'd much rather use a rule that states "If a white line exists, 2 wheels must remain inside it" That's basically why the white line is there. I don't know if it has to be policed like NFL touchdown replays for every corner, but at Monza getting the outside wheels onto the rumble strips cuts seconds off your lap time and it generally isn't done IRL without damaging the car. Finding the fastest in-game lap is about abusing the chicanes and taking as much as you can without getting caught.

 

[intoflatlines]

Good point dude, never thought that way, now I want clarification from the powers!

Is it the White line?
Or
Is it the rumble strip?

JLBowler's statements regarding white line vs. rumble strip

 

[swg]

I think the white lines are only the track boundary if no rumble strips exist. If rumble strips are outside of the white lines, the strips serve as the boundary. I remember this topic of discussion from the Deep Forest Reverse combos...

Unfortunately our OLR does not indicate an order of precidence for boundries. It simply states that rumble strips are counsidered an outer boundry and part of the track surface. Perhaps it could be ammended to give clearly indicated boundry lines priority as indication of track limits as I believe is the case in F1 and perhaps other motor sport.

Limits of rumble strips should only be considered a track limit in the absense of clearly defined lines.

 

[intoflatlines]

Unfortunately our OLR does not indicate an order of precidence for boundries. It simply states that rumble strips are counsidered an outer boundry and part of the track surface. Perhaps it could be ammended to give clearly indicated boundry lines priority as indication of track limits as I believe is the case in F1 and perhaps other motor sport.

Limits of rumble strips should only be considered a track limit in the absense of clearly defined lines.

Please see my link above. While it's true that it's not explicitly stated in OLR, it has been confirmed by SNAIL stewards/leadership that the rumble strips are the track boundary even if it is beyond the white line.

 

[ThePDTX]

It took a bit of time because I live on the other side of the world but i finally got it.
Thank you @zer05ive
PS: Please disregard the small lady in the pink robe.

 

[swg]

Please see my link above. While it's true that it's not explicitly stated in OLR, it has been confirmed by SNAIL stewards/leadership that the rumble strips are the track boundary even if it is beyond the white line.

Given the way the rules are written I would say its apparent. I'm merely stating my opinion.

 

[turnupdaheat]

Not that my opinion matters, but all of those should be violations. Accourding to rules/regulations we're given however only the last one is. The track boundries in those images are clearly defined by white lines and in such a case (IMO) two wheels should be required within those track boundries. I would rather lose than drive in such a manner. Occassionally a driver may break those boundries on accident but it shouldnt be done intentionally. IMO its deliberate corner cutting.

Everyone is allowed to have an opinion but when universal track boundry rules indicate that the rumble strips are part of the track it is clearly not recognised as corner cutting as long as you don't go beyond them. In some tracks where the rumble strips are more severe (like Imola for instance) the cars are specifically set up softer to allow them carry as much speed over the kerbs.

 

[chatva]

JLBowler's statements regarding white line vs. rumble strip

Ok then, I just got quicker!
Been to conservative with it, I probably won't be pushing the boundary though but it's nice knowing of the leeway!

 

[intoflatlines]

Honestly, I usually try to race with two wheels inside the white line boundaries. It's an easier rule to follow but I guess it is too hard to police since the game doesn't hand out penalties (by ghosting or upsetting the car chassis) when you take a line that is unrealistic in real life. This is what should be happening when drivers end up with 2 wheels in the dirt and 2 wheels on the candy stripes...

I'd much rather use a rule that states "If a white line exists, 2 wheels must remain inside it" That's basically why the white line is there. I don't know if it has to be policed like NFL touchdown replays for every corner, but at Monza getting the outside wheels onto the rumble strips cuts seconds off your lap time and it generally isn't done IRL without damaging the car. Finding the fastest in-game lap is about abusing the chicanes and taking as much as you can without getting caught.

I get what you're saying, all I'm doing is reiterating the ruling on the issue. Also that picture you posted certainly shows that some curbs are much higher than others.

Here's the curb for the 1st chicane at Monza:

And here's a curb for the Ascari corner:

As you can see, they are relatively flat and wouldn't cause you to go airborne like in your image. Also, we are driving a Hyundai Genesis with 5 inches of ground clearance and soft suspension with plenty of travel vs. an F1 car with a couple centimeters of clearance and extremely stiff/low travel suspension.

 

[swg]

Everyone is allowed to have an opinion but when universal track boundry rules indicate that the rumble strips are part of the track it is clearly not recognised as corner cutting as long as you don't go beyond them. In some tracks where the rumble strips are more severe (like Imola for instance) the cars are specifically set up softer to allow them carry as much speed over the kerbs.

You'll notice that the cars in that image are treating the inside edge of the rumble strips as boundry, not the outer edge as in the screen shots provided earlier. They are driving within fractions of an inch of the inner line. If a driver were on open track and barely keeping half a wheel on the outerr edge of the strip he most likely would be penalized depending on the FIA's mood that day. Theyre somewhat notoriously inconsistant.

 

[swg]

"20.2 Drivers must use the track at all times. For the avoidance of doubt the white lines defining the track edges are considered to be part of the track but the kerbs are not.
A driver will be judged to have left the track if no part of the car remains in contact with the track."

Directly from F1 regulations.

 

[Dragonwhisky]

While I'm not going to address the track boundaries, since I'm fairly certain JLBowler has clearly defined what the boundary is, I am going to state, if drivers are shortcutting, and it's not being reported to the stewards, then it's not going to be reviewed or penalized. Conversely, if one shortcut is reported, I for one, generally look for others that driver may have commited and he will get penalized for all in that race. I know there are other stewards that do the same.

The white line is the safest boundary to use. If you're inside that, you're good. Once you start using the curbs as your boundary, the risk is higher that you will, even if an honest mistake, be penalized for shortcutting.

What real world racing series have for their rule set is of no real consequence here. You all know where the SNAIL OLR is, and if you don't, click the link in my signature.

 

[intoflatlines]

"20.2 Drivers must use the track at all times. For the avoidance of doubt the white lines defining the track edges are considered to be part of the track but the kerbs are not.
A driver will be judged to have left the track if no part of the car remains in contact with the track."

Directly from F1 regulations.

Which is why F1 drivers follow F1 rules while SNAIL drivers follow OLR...

 

[JLBowler]

Read it, learn it, live it.

Rumble strips are part of the track when they are present. The green painted area beyond the rumble strips are not part of the track. Once the green paint starts, the track stops. The white line has nothing to do with the track edge unless it is specifically mentioned by the stewards. An example of specific mention would be turn one at Laguna Seca. We consider the white line to be OB in this situation and will penalize for contact with brake markers or going more than two wheels beyond the line. You will all notice that there is not a single mention of a white line in the entire section of the S.N.A.I.L. OLR posted below.


15: Track Boundaries:

A:
Colliding with or using walls, fences or other obstacle is forbidden, whether time is gained or not.

B:
Two wheels (except when airborne, where the vertical projection of the car onto the track counts) must be in contact with the track/circuit which includes the rumble strips and footpaths, but not grassed areas.

C:
All green areas are not part of the track unless otherwise stated by the Stewards prior to the race.

D:
Curbs, sidewalks/pavements are not part of the track unless otherwise stated.

E:Tarmac/Asphalt or any other kind of surface mentioned above that are situated beyond the normal limits of the track, Run-off areas for example, are not part of the track unless otherwise stated.

F:
Any kind of rumble strip made of concrete, stone etc are part of the track unless otherwise stated.

G:
Tarmac/Asphalt partially covered with dirt or sand are part of the track unless otherwise stated.

H:
You must not use any cheats or bugs in the game. The use of cheats or bugs affecting the cars performance is forbidden.

I:
The use of external cheats is forbidden.

J:
The use of shortcuts which are based on bugs in the game is prohibited. The fact that the game will allow you to take shortcuts does not account for a valid run.

K:
Any other way of cheating we haven't thought of is forbidden.

 

[swg]

Fully aware of what the OLR says and dully intend to abide by them. Simply stating opinion on what I believe rules regarding boundries should be. IMO the OLR as written encourages pushing the limits of cheating/cutting corners. Setting white lines/inner kerb edge, as primary boundry would pull drivers back in towards the "proper" track surface and encourage what "I" consider proper driving. Emphasis on the "I", I expect many others may dissagree.

 

[DrKronin]

Fully aware of what the OLR says and dully intend to abide by them. Simply stating opinion on what I believe rules regarding boundries should be. IMO the OLR as written encourages pushing the limits of cheating/cutting corners. Setting white lines/inner kerb edge, as primary boundry would pull drivers back in towards the "proper" track surface and encourage what "I" consider proper driving. Emphasis on the "I", I expect many others may dissagree.

No matter what the limit is, people will push it. I don't think the rumble strips being the limit encourages pushing the limit any more than any other limit. The limit is the limit. Get as close as you dare. If you leave the track, you must lift so as to not gain an advantage, and you must not impede anyone else when you re-enter.

 

[swg]

No matter what the limit is, people will push it. I don't think the rumble strips being the limit encourages pushing the limit any more than any other limit. The limit is the limit. Get as close as you dare. If you leave the track, you must lift so as to not gain an advantage, and you must not impede anyone else when you re-enter.

With limits as they are youre more likely to be completely offroading if youre breaking the rules. Beyond the outer edge of the kerb the next limit would be the fence. On normal corners the boundries established by the OLR arent so bad, its in the chicanes that it really encourages poor driving.