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JLBowler
If it were up to me to make a scale for tires, I would probably have two of them. One scale for production cars and another for race cars/rm cars. I would want the vast majority or even all of the production cars on sports tires and all race cars/rm cars on racing tires. It would really make two differnet types of racing in the league. The production cars would be just as we are running now and the racing/rm cars would be focused more toward tire management.
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This is actually something that I've mentioned post-race to keep people who think RM cars should have racing tires happy. Your points only make it even more attractive.

Though I would move production car tires harder by a couple of levels...

Then I'd run something like
<550 RH
550-649 RM
&#8805;650 RS


...likely neither here nor there, though...
 
Apmaddock
What? Must be a southern thing. To me this smacks of perversion.
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In New York City it is supported, with evidence, that during the months of June, July, and August, ice cream sales increase. It is also observed and supported by evidence that hospitals admit more patients suffering from strokes.

Ice cream causes strokes.

Q.e.d.

The point is, correlation does not imply causation. A third factor, heat, contributes to both the increase in ice cream sales and occurrences of strokes.

Excessive torque and less than sophisticated suspensions lead to poor tire wear and cars that get voted down quickly.

kcheeb
Not to mention we'll have to reimburse the $6000 for Sport Softs ;)
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What's the Credits to USD exchange rate? :P
 
Apmaddock
This is actually something that I've mentioned post-race to keep people who think RM cars should have racing tires happy. Your points only make it even more attractive.

Though I would move production car tires harder by a couple of levels...

Then I'd run something like
<550 RH
550-649 RM
&#8805;650 RS


...likely neither here nor there, though...
Click to expand...

Based on the lenght of our races, I'd probably ban the RH all together and have race/rm cars run only on RM or RS just to induce tire wear. I would also reverse the scale on them. The higher PP cars would get the RM tires and the lower ones would get the RS. This would keep the more powerful cars from burning through RS in two laps and would make the lower power cars use up the RS. Something like this:

below 550 racing soft
above 550 racing medium

This is just for sharkie. Any car that fell right on 550 would not be allowed tires for the race. They would have to run on the bare rim.
 
zer05ive
Okay, this will be how we segment our new tire restrictions:
below 300 PP -> Comfort Mediums
300-349 PP ---> Comfort Softs
350-399 PP ---> Sports Hards
400-449 PP ---> Sports Mediums
450-499 PP ---> Sports Softs
500-549 PP ---> Racing Hards
550-599 PP ---> Racing Mediums
600 PP & up --> Racing Softs​
It's much cleaner-looking since the first number of each PP range is a rounded-off number. Each PP range is also evenly divided at 50 PP's each. All in all, it's just much easier on the eyes IMO. I actually can't believe I didn't create this version from the start. :banghead:

That being said, the astute snail will immediately notice that Round 3 of this Sunday's races would be affected by this change since the Alfa Romeo 8C Competizione '08 is listed in the Dealership at exactly 500 PP.

Do you guys want to go ahead and change Round 3 to Racing Hards to align with this new (and correct) version of the tire restrictions? Or would you wallow in pain and anguish at the thought of all the blood, sweat, and tears that you spent dialing in your Alfa Romeo 8C's on Sports Softs all going to waste? :lol:
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Just a note: the Alfa says 500PP in NCD but when I went to change oil after purchasing it stated it as 495PP before and I forget after oil change. Fully broken in w/engine rebuild and I'm at 507PP.

I don't think we can go by PP in NCD so starting PP after purchase should be 495, making the tire of choice SS.
 
Vol Jbolaz
Ice cream causes strokes.
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I always knew that ice cream was up to no good.

Bowler
I'd probably ban the RH all together and have race/rm cars run only on RM or RS just to induce tire wear. I would also reverse the scale on them. The higher PP cars would get the RM tires and the lower ones would get the RS. This would keep the more powerful cars from burning through RS in two laps and would make the lower power cars use up the RS.
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This is where you and I differ. Given my druthers, I'd ban RS completely.

These races are short. Tire wear is not likely to be a factor most of the time. Therefore I'm not going to concern myself with trying to make it such.

Given again my druthers I would run a spec enduro night (albeit not on the weekends).

Alas, someone long ago took my druthers and is unlikely to ever hand them back willingly. *cough*wife*cough*
 
I have to agree with bowler on many of his statements regarding the tire grip and tire wear. There are times that having too much grip is an issue and will have an negative impact on the speed a car can carry through a turn - although, admittedly those are the exception and not the rule.

Tire wear is not merely a factor of the tire, but rather a whole combination of things. For the sake of this topic, I'll keep it limited to just the factors of the GT5 environment.
  • Tire Selection
    the tires selected​
  • Driving Surface
    texture of the driving surface​
  • Number of Turns
    more turns = more tire wear​
  • Terrain of Turns
    banked turns
    off-camber turns
    elevation change in turns
    etc.​
  • Driver Control Inputs
    smooth with steering
    braking application
    throttle control​
  • Driver's Skills
    cornering speed
    weight transfer
    tire loading
    skid recovery
    drafting (yes, drafting)
    ​
  • Traffic
    driver skill of others on track
    predictability of other drivers
    accident avoidance
    contact
    blocking
    mid-turn racing line alterations​
  • Racing Environment
    race position
    remaining duration of race
    pressure from other drivers​

Any listed item from above (or any combination thereof) can and will have an impact of tire wear. I agree with bowler that longer races would be fun as tire wear will become a serious factor, but the current race format simply will not really support 6 races in 2 hours. If the SNAIL league (Zero) were to alter the race format to make tire wear more of an issue, then fewer races would be required so the 2 hours mark is not violated - it would be 4 races, and I'm not sure how well that would work or go over with the other members. I'm not suggesting anything, just making a guess based on observation.

Bowler correctly pointed out that with the new tire/pp index seems to offer less tire wear in favor of less grip, I noticed this last night as well. However, I do see the new tire/pp index as a positive step to change the status-quo. Driver now have to deal with less grip and this increases the potential for more position changes during any given race through attrition or driver mistake, and thus making for a more competitive & fun race.
 
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I'd be happy to ban RS if the other ones would wear out. I'd love to see the sport soft wear about like the race mediums. Let's be honest, if you take a car with performance street tires on it to the track and run it hard for four or five laps, you're not going to have much left. I did a track day with Bridgestone/Firestone many years ago and we were given various cars to run around Laguna Seca. Dodge co-sponsored the event so we got a stock neon, a race prepped neon, and a stock viper to drive. There was a race prepped Viper as well but they wouldn't let any of us touch it. The pro driver would take you for a lap or two but that was it. Most of the guys there couldn't get qualified to drive the stock Viper. We also had stock, performance, and race tires for all of the cars. The stock tires didn't perfrom for anything but they did last. Hard driving for seven laps only scrubbed of about 4/32" of tread and the times didn't suffer much. The performance tires didn't fare so well. Over the same seven laps, they shed 8/32" of their tread and fell off by over two seconds. The hard compound race tires we had shed 6/32 of their tread and fell off by just over a second and were seven seconds faster at the start then the performance tires.

Those are the numbers I remember off the top of my head. I have the complete report somewhere that I can dig up if anyone is interested. It's a technical read but I could pull it out and hit the highlights.
 
All of this talk got me thinking...

If anyone's interested, I'd be happy to run an enduro race on Wednesday night from about 11:15 or 11:30-12:45 Eastern, or right after practice is finished. We could use the same car/track/tire combo from one of the week's selections, but just pump it up to last a bit over an hour.

There would probably have to be a minimum driver interest limit, though.

After all, if people are here who want tire wear to be an issue, they're likely going to have to look outside of Sunday night.
 
Apmaddock, I wouldn't mind it the enduro idea were a monthly sort of thing. Maybe see if Diabolic wouldn't mind picking a Friday a month to make into a no-boost 90+ minute enduro.
 
zer05ive
Okay, this will be how we segment our new tire restrictions:

below 300 PP -> Comfort Mediums
300-349 PP ---> Comfort Softs
350-399 PP ---> Sports Hards
400-449 PP ---> Sports Mediums
450-499 PP ---> Sports Softs
500-549 PP ---> Racing Hards
550-599 PP ---> Racing Mediums
600 PP & up --> Racing Softs​

It's much cleaner-looking since the first number of each PP range is a rounded-off number. Each PP range is also evenly divided at 50 PP's each. All in all, it's just much easier on the eyes IMO. I actually can't believe I didn't create this version from the start. :banghead:

That being said, the astute snail will immediately notice that Round 3 of this Sunday's races would be affected by this change since the Alfa Romeo 8C Competizione '08 is listed in the Dealership at exactly 500 PP.

Do you guys want to go ahead and change Round 3 to Racing Hards to align with this new (and correct) version of the tire restrictions? Or would you wallow in pain and anguish at the thought of all the blood, sweat, and tears that you spent dialing in your Alfa Romeo 8C's on Sports Softs all going to waste? :lol:
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I'm fine with the change to the tire/pp index. Goob job 👍

I do have a problem with changing the tires for the Alfa Romeo. The main reason I picked the 8C, was because it would be running on the Sport Soft tires with the change in the tire/pp index. I intended for the car to require finesse. I made my selections based on the index that you talked to me about, and bumping up the car to the next tire just isn't cool.

If the majority of SNAILS want to run the car with the RH tire, then I'd like change my car selection to fit the "New" New Tire/PP Index. Changing the tires for this car effectively cancels my reasoning for picking this car. I'm happy to pick another car if I need to, but the tire change mid week really isn't cool.

Please advise.
 
I had a schedule for Saturday nights but real life got in the way for me. Saturdays are not good at all for me anymore. I would run Wednesday nights as soon a little league is over. I'm working as an umpire and I don't get finished until around 9 pacific. It's over in a couple of weeks so I would be up for it after that.
 
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JLBowler
I had a schedule for Saturday nights but real life got in the way for me. I would run it as soon a little league is over. I'm working as an umpire and I don't get finished until around 9 pacific. It's over in a couple of weeks so I would be up for it after that.
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Or joining the M3 Challenge :)

Tire wear is a factor, three pits for me last race.
 
sharkie
If the majority of SNAILS want to run the car with the RH tire
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To annoy Diabolic by scrolling the thread, and to echo Bowler a little bit (even though I argued against this exact same logic):

Street car gets street tires. I'd much rather run the 8C on SS than RH.
 
Some how everything i just wrote got erased arg! I'll make it short and sweet :)

Keep the tires the way they are on SS. If you want to do the changing do it AFTER Sunday's race. Nothing should be changed ever, mid-week. Not everyone has every night to practice like some do.
 
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irmopars
some how everything i just wrote got erased arg! I'll make it short and sweet :)

keep the tires the way they are on ss. If you want to do the cahnging do it after sunday's race. Nothing should be changed ever, mid-week. Not everyone has every night to practice like some do.
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amen!
 
irmopars
Some how everything i just wrote got erased arg! I'll make it short and sweet :)

Keep the tires the way they are on SS. If you want to do the changing do it AFTER Sunday's race. Nothing should be changed ever, mid-week. Not everyone has every night to practice like some do.
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Ditto.
 
I've only been a member of SNAIL for a couple weeks so I don't expect my words to have earth moving weight. Every night racing with you guys has been great, with the negatives so minuscule they aren't worth listing. The way the tires were set up before all this discussion, you couldn't just brake, turn, gas. While still fun, driving required concentration to properly approach and execute a corner. That is the sort of racing I love and respect. Anyone can install Racing Softs and throw a car around, but I believe that's not what any of us want.

Everyone here has come up with a lot of great ideas from new Tire PP ranges to changing the length of races to include tire wear. I think that before any idea gets finalized the administrative bodies should get together and sort through all the feedback. Then with a good sense of what the SNAIL community desires, come up with some proposed changes to meet those desires.

It is a lot of work for what is supposed to be a relaxed group, and I thank everyone who has devoted their personal time to playing a game with strangers online.
 
How about this idea. We currently have three different combos each week. There are three different classifications of tires in the game: comfort, sports, and racing. What if each combo had to run one of the tire classifications. Combo 1 would always be on comfort tires, combo 2 would be on sports, and combo 3 would run on racing.

This would force the league to use all three tires and get us into using some different cars. It would also make the decision for which prize to take a little more interesting.
 
JLBowler
How about this idea. We currently have three different combos each week. There are three different classifications of tires in the game: comfort, sports, and racing. What if each combo had to run one of the tire classifications. Combo 1 would always be on comfort tires, combo 2 would be on sports, and combo 3 would run on racing.
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While this sounds nice, it would totally defeat the purpose of being able to pick whatever car/track if you won prize A/B. With what your proposing, whatever car/track was voted off, the winner(s) would then be stuck picking from one of the three tire combo's, Comfort/Sport/Race. They now no longer have the choice of "Whatever they want" to pick.
 
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Apmaddock
What? Must be a southern thing. To me this smacks of perversion.

Really, Psycho? Here's what I run in A-Spec.

&#8804;350 ----------> Comfort Hards
351-400 PP ---> Comfort Mediums
401-450 PP ---> Comfort Softs
451-500 PP ---> Sports Hards
501-550 PP ---> Sports Mediums
551-600 PP ---> Sports Softs
601-650 PP ---> Racing Hards
651-700 PP ---> Racing Mediums
701 PP & up --> Racing Softs

...and sometimes in the highest levels I'll stay with RH.
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No, it was "tongue in cheek". The closest emoticon I could find was "Sly".
 

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